From cak Tue Jan 7 11:01:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA02145; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 11:01:24 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 11:01:24 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199701071901.LAA02145@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: If three people do it, they'll think it's a movement... Welcome to ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com. The current list members are: "Bryan Cashion" Chris Kantarjiev Len Miller Kare M A Pietil{ Ryan Snodgrass Bob I'm keeping an archive, but there's not currently any way to access it from the web. I've got several other suggestions for members, and will send them invitations shortly. Len Miller asked me: Chris.....I would be interested, but would like to know more about the format i.e., just front engine V-12's...owners? or everyone interested...what will the content be about....mechanical problems/solutions, racing, pilots, factory history? Etc.... This is a start as to topics....Keep me updated.... My original thought was to limit the list to owners only. However, I know that there are enthusiasts out there that share what I perceive to be the interests of this group, but can't currently afford a car - one is already on the list (Ryan). I think everything is fair game. We will control the level of traffic and the quality of the conversation by controlling the membership. As I said, there will be no public announcement of this list. Not anywhere. If someone hears about it, it's from one of us. There's no majorodomo allowing automatic subscriptions - *I* read ferrari-request, and I won't add someone if I don't know him or her or have a recommendation. My goal in starting this list is to have a place to discuss the "early" cars, what FCA calls vintage and classic - up to the Daytona or so. I would love to exchange technical information and factory history, have it be a place to ask questions while I'm working on my car. I would like the quality of discourse to be high enough that we could interest someone like Massini in participating! It's up to us. That's my first take - I'd like to hear from others. From cak Wed Jan 15 13:11:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA03374; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:11:36 -0800 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:11:36 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199701152111.NAA03374@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: let's begin... It seems that the flurry of additions to the list has died down. The current membership is David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Andrew Brent "Bryan Cashion" Pat Caruthers Chris Kantarjiev Jeff Littrell Len Miller Harold Pace Kare M A Pietil{ Mike Plechaty Bruce Rippey Leonard Schmitt Ryan Snodgrass Bob /lists/ferrari-vintage/archive There are several folks that I sent invitations that haven't responded. Ryan also sent me a list of all the early Ferrari owners he has on his web page (http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/rsai/Automotive/WhosWho.html). I'm not going to send a blanket invitation to those folks, since I don't know many of them. I really hope that we'll keep this list quiet - a club of folks that get along and share interests, rather than a room full of wannabes. I propose that we start some traffic - and have three topics in mind. 1. What you currently own and what you used to own. 2. Topics of discussion for the list - what do *you* want to see? 3. Suggestions for other folks that should be here. 9161 is my first experience with owning a Ferrari, and if you haven't looked at the pages starting at http://www.dimebank.com/Sal.html, well, you can find the whole story there. Pat Caruthers is my partner and co-owner of 9161; she's owned a few others before, but I'll let her tell her own story if she cares to. I've already given my opinions of what discussion topics are appropriate; I'd like to hear from others. Step right up! From cak Wed Jan 15 14:20:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA03855; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 14:20:51 -0800 Received: from alamo (alamo [129.200.133.30]) by pat.mdc.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA27681 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 16:30:59 -0600 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 16:30:59 -0600 From: Leonard Schmitt Message-Id: <199701152230.QAA27681@pat.mdc.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: let's begin... ----- Begin Included Message ----- >From cak@dimebank.com Wed Jan 15 15:30 CST 1997 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:11:36 -0800 From: cak@dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) X-btw: dimebank.com is also www.aratar.com To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Subject: let's begin... Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1743 >1. What you currently own and what you used to own. Haven't owned any vintage Ferraris. Started with 1981 308GTSi. Traded it in on 1986 328 GTS. Traded in it on 1990 348 TS. Took out light post with it and replaced it with current 1993 348TS Serie Speciale (#63 of 100). There in an interesting story in the new Rosso Ferrari magazine (from Ferrari NA.) where they interview Robert M. Lee and he talks about all his early Ferrari purchases. He started off by faxing a letter to Mr. Ferrari offering to buy the custom Ferrari showned at the 195? New Auto Show for $9500 and Mr. Ferrari agreed! Leonard Schmitt From cak Thu Jan 16 09:34:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA02040; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:34:06 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:34:06 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199701161734.JAA02040@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: And so we begin [Since there's some confusion ... to reach the list, send to ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com not to me.] From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: And so we begin Hi Chris: Thanks for putting me on the list. This should be fun. I'm still confused a bit though. Is the address to post to the group the same as yours? I'm gonna send this first response to your address to see what happens. Just let me know. Gave you a coupla thoughts on topics in my last post, so I'll skip that issue. I think an excellent person to add to the group would be (Dr.) Bruce Witcher. Len Miller will have his E-mail address handy, I think. Bruce is a down-to-Earth GTE owner who's been through his car, largely on his own, I gather. He certainly knows the ins and outs of a Laycock overdrive unit. And if that don't qualify the man, I don't know what does. He literally took me through the tricky bits as auction lots were going across the podium at Monterey a couple of years ago, and contributed a very cogent dissertation on the subject for Len's new GTE handbook project. Impressive. As to cars owned: currently a '60 250 Series II cabriolet, #2105GT (red w/black interior); a '63 250GTE, #4799 with engine #5033 GT from a 330 America (dark blue w/cinnamon interior; a '74 Jensen-Healey roadster I restored from a burned-out hulk for my wife's summertime car (black w/red interior); an '86 Mazda RX-7 Sport I've owned since new (red w/gray interior); and a Ford pickup that's used in my business. Probably doesn't count since I never really drive it. Previous cars owned have been the usual motley collection of daily floggers, but "the sports car thang" has its origins for me with an Austin-Healey 3000 that I owned as a penniless college student, and included an XK-150 Jag that first introduced me to the joys (?) of greasy dirt under the fingernails. Been spending nights and weekends on my back in a cold garage with my feet on the lawnmower ever since, more or less. No previous ownership of Ferraris, but there was one close call that bears repeating. Back in the first half of the Seventies, I was feeling the need for a Maranello product REAL BAD, and the cost of entry was still within reason. I came across an ad in Autoweek from a guy who lived about a 90-minute car ride away. Drove down there with my first wife to check it out. "It" was an original '57 500TRC, silver with a red stripe, in fine shape. Guy was asking $6,500. Sat in it. Drove it. Lusted after it in the worst way. Said the wife, "where we gonna puuuuuuuut it?". End of first glimmer of Ferrari ownership. Also a big part of the reason she's referred to as my first wife. Yeah, I know. They were three-and-a-half mil in 1990. Sigh. Regards to all, Dave Booth Vista, Ca. From cak Thu Jan 16 09:35:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA02060; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:35:57 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:35:57 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199701161735.JAA02060@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: let's begin... [Another forwarded message...] From: mikeplechaty@juno.com Subject: Re: let's begin... Well.... WHAT WE OWN: a 1961 250GTE (the CA DMV claims it's a 1962, but that's another story). Have owned it since 1975. One is enough for us. TOPICS: Let's NOT include junk conversation that is so often on that "other" list, ie., how to pick up chicks with one's Ferrari, and such. WHO ELSE: No opinion here. From cak Thu Jan 16 12:24:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA03641; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:24:05 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 15:34:14 -0500 (EST) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <970116153414.bd912@idx.com> Subject: RE: And so we begin We own a Series II GTE (#3351) and a Series I 330 GT 2+2 (#5767). I met Chris on the I-car list a few years ago and have talked and communicated with Len for a while as well. We also own a 74 Alfa Spider that we bought in 77 and have owned other Alfas and Fiats as well. Eleven years ago it was "my turn" to get a new car and I had decided on an Alfa Milano. We drove to all of the dealerships in CT shopping and tested a Maser Biturbo as well. I was already to put down the money for the Milano when my kids said "Dad, why don't you buy the Ferrari you always wanted instead?" So we looked around and finally bought the GTE. We drove the car for about 7 years, then in a moment on insanity, I decided to do a full restoration on the car. I took it all apart and it is currently in the body shop -- although its been there for a couple of years, we expect to have the paint done by spring and hopefully everything will be done while I'm still young enough to drive it. We bought the 330 a couple of years later and have gradually improved its overall condition. It is a fairly nice driver and it made it all the way from VT to Watkins Glen and back (900 miles) without a hitch. I do most of my own mechanical work and enjoy Ferrari history and research, so topics on these things will be welcome. I'm disappointed that we can't talk about how to pick up girls -- 30 years ago, I picked one up on my Ducati, married her, and this year we will celebrate our 29th anniversary. She hates kicking tires but loves to drive fast and used to autocross the Alfa -- can't get her to drive the 330 though. Right now I can't think of anyone else that is "connected" that should be on the list. Thanks for including me. Bob Weeks Georgia Center, VT From cak Thu Jan 16 13:46:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA04085; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 13:46:18 -0800 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA161676 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:56:53 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id XAA02795 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:56:52 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199701162156.XAA02795@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: let's begin... To: ferrari-vintage Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:56:52 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > 1. What you currently own and what you used to own. We have had the 250 GTE 2+2 /62 s/n 3197 actually owned by my father-in-law in the family for over 30 years now... It has been standing still for 20 years but times may be achanging in the near or more distant future... The car is silver/red interior. We also have an 1927 Oakland Six and have been looking for a decent Chrysler 300 letter series car from 1960-1962... Nothing's going to change in my own garage for a while as I chose to put all my money into the apartment we are living at :-( Have a Volkswagen Golf for daily transport. > 2. Topics of discussion for the list - what do *you* want to see? We have people with a lot of experience on older cars on this list. I like to see that being shared - not only the usefull stuff but maybe just a little of those funny thing too... Let go with those faulty fuel pumps and things like that - I need that. I also expect to get answers and hints on how things were handled back in the old days, the historical things, you know. I'm just trying to figure out the history of all Ferraris raced in Finland (all six of them or so...) and might occasionally need some help as it simply is impossible to obtain all the best books in here... Time to let loose with a question: I couldn't find any article on 750 Monzas in my library and would appreciate if someone could answer these questions: (I'm trying to track down a local car once again...) 1) How many 750 Monzas were produced? About 30? 2) Were there two different series - early cars with smooth sides (a'la Mondial) and later cars with a sharp "edge" behind front wheel arches? How many of each was produced? Or am I mixing Mondials with Monzas? 3) Any good books/articles on the subject listing the chassis numbers and possible history of each car? > 3. Suggestions for other folks that should be here. I'm happy to see all the folks that came in to my mind attending. From cak Thu Jan 16 16:07:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA05018; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:07:51 -0800 Received: from [199.183.205.214] (bal-md6-22.ix.netcom.com [199.183.205.214]) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA26904 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:18:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199701170018.QAA26904@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> Subject: Grist for the Mill Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 19:21:27 -0500 From: Bruce Rippey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hello, Vintage Listers - It's going to be fun to see how this list evolves - I think it's a great idea. Current cars: '64 330GT 2+2, four-headlamp, #5629, bought 1974 '93 348ts/SS, bought last October Former cars: '58 250GT PF Coupe, #1063GT, bought 1969, sold 1973 Current non-Ferrari (FWIW): '69 Lotus Elan S4 S/E, bought 1971 '34 Ford Tudor, inherited (grandfather acquired new) '88 Saab 9000T, bought new '93 BMW K75S (2-wheeler) I'm more than willing to carry on endlessly about any and all of the above, but will wait for the time being to see where the group preferences and tendencies lie. The non-Ferrari content is included only for side interest, if any, and I will keep it off of this list in future. -Bruce Bruce Rippey Glen Arm, MD brippey@ix.netcom.com From cak Thu Jan 16 18:03:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA05776; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:03:29 -0800 Received: (from postman@localhost) by po9.andrew.cmu.edu (8.8.2/8.8.2) id VAA24730; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:14:06 -0500 Received: via switchmail; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:14:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix11.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:12:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix11.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:12:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from mms.4.60.Jun.27.1996.03.02.53.sun4.51.EzMail.2.0.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.unix11.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4m.54 via MS.5.6.unix11.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4_51; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:12:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:12:49 -0500 (EST) From: Ryan J Snodgrass To: ferrari-vintage, Kare M A Pietil{ Subject: Re: 750 Monza Cc: Ryan J Snodgrass In-Reply-To: <199701162156.XAA02795@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> References: <199701162156.XAA02795@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> In his book, "The Complete Ferrari", Godfrey Eaton states that there were approximately 33 750 Monzas built between 1954 and 1955, however an accurate count of the number built was not at yet available when the book was printed. Of those 31 known, all but one built by Scaglietti, the other, s/n 0486M, was built by Pinin Farina. The 30 built by Scaglietti are the following: 0462M, 0470M, 0492M, 0494M, 0496M, 0498M, 0500M, 0502M, 0504M, 0508M, 0514M, 0516M, 0518M, 0520M, 0522M, 0524M, 0526M, 0530M, 0538M, 0540M, 0548M, 0550M, 0552M, 0554M, 0556M, 0562M, 0568M, 0580M, 0582M, 0586M Hartmut Lehbrink and Rainer Schegelmilch claim in their more coffee-table book, "Ferrari", that there were 27 examples produced by Scaglietti and 3 by Pinin Farina. Those bodies by Scaglietti were apparently patterned after a sketch by Dino Ferrari. The 750 Monza had a twin-overhead camshaft 4-cylinder engine, 2992 cc, 260bhp @ 6000rpm, CR 8.6:1. As far as the history, it was the 750 Monza that claimed the life of racing great Alberto Ascari at Monza during the mid-50S. The corner is now named after him in honor. According to Paul Frere, who drove a 750 Monza in the 1955 Swedish Grand Prix, the 750 apparently had quite an understeer and "useless brakes". -- Ryan Snodgrass School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University rsai+@andrew.cmu.edu | http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~rsai/ From cak Thu Jan 16 19:50:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA06283; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:50:30 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd45-021.compuserve.com [199.174.235.21]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA01456; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:01:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199701170401.UAA01456@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Kare M A Pietil{" , Subject: 750 Monza Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:57:34 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kare: Ryan has already supplied you with Eaton's chassis numbers. The following is some added info from others. Unfortunately, it doesn't shed much light on your question. There were some early versions of the 2L and 3 L 4 cylinder race cars with a variety of body styles. The earliest reference I can find to Mondial/Monza is in 1953. Tanner notes that for the 1953 Formula Libre series in Buenos Aries, Ferrari sent 3 cars. 625 chassis fittted with 750 Monza engine. Tanner also notes that Dino Ferrari designed the body (originally a 2 liter engine on a 166 MM chassis) that "was eventually used on ALL the 750 Monza production chassis." There is some suggestion that there were more than one PROTOYPE body. He has a substantial discussion of the engine, trans, and chassis. However, Fitzgerald and Merritt indicate that there were some variations over time in the body that were incorporated into both the Mondial and the Monza. There doesn't appear to have been substantial changes from Dino Ferrari's original style. P.S. to group, I have access to a good HP color scanner, if the need arises. ---------- > From: Kare M A Pietil{ > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: let's begin... > Date: Thursday, January 16, 1997 3:56 PM > all the best books in here... > > Time to let loose with a question: I couldn't find any article on > 750 Monzas in my library and would appreciate if someone could > answer these questions: (I'm trying to track down a local car > once again...) > > 1) How many 750 Monzas were produced? About 30? > 2) Were there two different series - early cars with smooth sides > (a'la Mondial) and later cars with a sharp "edge" behind front > wheel arches? How many of each was produced? Or am I mixing > Mondials with Monzas? > 3) Any good books/articles on the subject listing the chassis > numbers and possible history of each car? > From cak Thu Jan 16 19:50:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA06280; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:50:25 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd45-021.compuserve.com [199.174.235.21]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA01447 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:01:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199701170401.UAA01447@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Chris' V-12 group" Subject: Introduction Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:21:38 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do not presently own a Ferrari, but have been looking for ... oh, a long time! I have been seriously looking for about 10 months. Focusing on 330 GT 2+2 models right now, but also like the 250 and 330 series (everything ...coupes, berlinettas, and cabriolets). I admire, but am not interested in the V-8s; primarily an issue of size and Baby Boomer desire for a V-12 .. the 3x8 series is inherently a fine series. First real exposure to Ferrari was a R&T article on the 275 GTB NART Spider I read in college (there, I dated myself). Have been reading and watching since. The last time I got really serious about buying was in the mid 80s ... guess what happened then. I have a reasonable, but not enormous, library of books and enjoy the research that some of these historical questions require. Have owned in the past Porsche 356 with Super 90 engine, 3 BMW 2002s, and a Bavaria with an Alpina Stage 2 engine. I kept the first 2002 for 17 years and sold it with 190k miles. I did most of the work on all of those, but working on a Ferrari will be a new "adventure." Presently own a Lexus 300 SC and Toyota Corolla. What this list can help me with: tips, advice, etc on what to watch out for in evaluating 330 2+2 or 250 PF coupes. Contacts in other cities. What I have to offer: willingness, if not extensive knowledge, to research own library, back issues of R&T, C&D. From cak Thu Jan 16 20:56:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA06778; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:56:56 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout20.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id AAA22446; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:07:10 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:07:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970117000710_374503629@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: WEEKS@VTA.dnet.idx.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: RE: And so we begin Aha! Another 330 2+2 owner! I have a Series II #8705, black with red int. Traded a Bocar vintage racer for it a few years ago. I had two Ferraris in the late 1970's (250GT low-roof Boano and another 330 2+2) but I thought I'd never have another one after the prices went up. But here I am. My wife won't drive the 330 either. Must be a guy thing. Do you have any good photos of your 330? I am writing an article on 2+2 models for Automobile Quarterly and have had trouble finding good Series I cars to photograph. Also 330 Americas. Do you know anyone that has one? Harold and Shelley Pace From cak Thu Jan 16 21:12:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA06844; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:11:57 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id AAA28285; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:22:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:22:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970117002212_537993584@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: cashion@sprynet.com, kpietila@cc.hut.fi, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 750 Monza You might want to check out Richard Merritt's book," Ferrari Operating and Service Handbooks, 1948-1963". The 750 Monza and 500 Mondiale manuals are in there. Let me know if you don't have it, and I'll snail mail those sections to you. Harold Pace From cak Sat Jan 18 11:49:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA02153; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:49:35 -0800 Received: from 204.140.219.46 (dial017w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.46]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id MAA12613 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:00:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32E14A90.48C5@net-quest.com> Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 22:11:38 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: Gentlemen, Let's begin. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gentlemen, Let's begin. 1. What you currently own and what you used to own. I have #3835 GTE, probably 62, but is known as 63 and was first registered in CA in 64, Red/Black at some point I will know more about the car but it's past is a bit of a mystery at the moment. Other's - - 96 S320, silver/grey. 93 911RS Blk/Blk. Have had 79 Fiat Sypder / 83 911 / 71 RX-2 / 73 246GTS / 91 300ZX / other Nissan's, other Mazda's. #3835 is currently not a car for driving, more laying down and avoiding. She run's, and seems to be all there but there's plenty to do. After buying it I wondered if I have bitten of more than I can chew as it is the most run-down car that I have ever purchased, but then again, that was the point. My wife want's me around the house more so she thought a good restoration project would do it. I looked at one other GTE and a 365. The 365 was too large for me, and the other GTE wasn't as appealing as this one (I must be mad, the other car ran great and had a new interior). I also considered the 330, and was looking for one when my car came up. All cars had to be 2+2, Lee-anne wouldn't let me have another 2 seat car. 2. Topics of discussion for the list - what do *you* want to see? I have a completly selfish desire to suck all knowlege about the V12 series from anyone who is prepared to give it up, so I could become a pain. I've already made a nusence of myself to Len and Chris over stuff (Len's handbook on the 250 GTE's is very helpfull by the way (hey Len,-free plug)). Anyway 3835 is in need of total cosmetic restoration, (previous owner's words during attempt to authenticate it's originallity) so anyone got a good recomendation on a chome plating shop to send the parts to. Also the waterpump seal seems to be leaking, has anyone attempted to do this themselves, do you need to take the timing chain off. (this alone would scare me off the job). There you go - two topics already (told you I was selfish) 3. Suggestions for other folks that should be here. I would like to let Tom Shaunessy in on it as well, if other's don't have a desire not to. He's a Wheeler Dealer down here in Los-Angeles but does have his own V12 car (Can't remember what it is though) Later, Andrew Brent. From cak Sat Jan 18 12:47:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA02547; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:47:12 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:47:12 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199701182047.MAA02547@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: let's begin... 1) How many 750 Monzas were produced? About 30? Right, "about 30". In addition to the other sources already mentioned, Merritt's book of sales literature claims that 29 were built. 2) Were there two different series - early cars with smooth sides (a'la Mondial) and later cars with a sharp "edge" behind front wheel arches? How many of each was produced? Or am I mixing Mondials with Monzas? My documentation on these cars is very spotty. It appears that the designation "Mondial" vs. "Monza" has more to do with the chassis style than the bodywork... though there does seem to be a typical body, built by Scaglietti after a Dino design. From cak Sat Jan 18 12:47:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA02554; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:47:42 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:47:42 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199701182047.MAA02554@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Gentlemen, Let's begin. Also the waterpump seal seems to be leaking, has anyone attempted to do this themselves, do you need to take the timing chain off. (this alone would scare me off the job). I don't know on the 250, but on the 330 this is pretty easy. No, the chain doesn't have to come off. You may have to fabricate/improvise a puller. From cak Sat Jan 18 14:07:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA02948; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:07:12 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad72-014.compuserve.com [199.174.199.14]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA01075; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:17:53 -0800 Message-Id: <199701182217.OAA01075@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: , "Vintage V12 list." Subject: Re: Gentlemen, Let's begin. Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:14:05 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know if Tom uses e-mail extensively, but he certainly has some interesting cars show up on the Web or in Hemmings. Latest one was a 250 GT Cabriolet with a Lusso engine in need of "full restoration." If I was braver soul (and richer), this one would appeal to me. Tom's e-mail is gt40mirage@aol.com ---------- > From: Andrew Brent > To: Vintage V12 list. > Subject: Gentlemen, Let's begin. > Date: Monday, August 27, 1956 4:11 PM > folks that should be here. > > I would like to let Tom Shaunessy in on it as well, if other's don't > have a desire not to. He's a > Wheeler Dealer down here in Los-Angeles but does have his own V12 car > (Can't remember what it is though) > > Later, > > Andrew Brent. From cak Sat Jan 18 14:20:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA03016; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:20:36 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad72-014.compuserve.com [199.174.199.14]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA03533 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:31:22 -0800 Message-Id: <199701182231.OAA03533@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Chris' V-12 group" Subject: Decisons, decisions Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:29:52 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I mentioned earlier that I'm focusing on 330 GT 2+2, but I'm curious if any of you have comments on the 250 PF coupe (I'm not crazy about the Ellena or Boana, but will gladly accept comments!) in terms of driving experience, reliability, maintenance, etc. P.S. to Kare: you had mentioned in your note on the Vignale 340 America that you got info from a Mr. Massini. Is this the same Massini that is the historian for FCA? From cak Tue Jan 21 09:33:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01649; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:33:44 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:33:44 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199701211733.JAA01649@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: RE: And so we begin Pat seems to enjoy driving 9161, since we got a standard set of seat rails and undid the "tall man kit" the factory installed - until then, she had to sit on a 3" block of foam to get her feet to the pedals, and it was really not very comfortable. But I do more of the driving (well, did - nobody's been driving 9161 much lately). I am writing an article on 2+2 models for Automobile Quarterly and have had trouble finding good Series I cars to photograph. How exciting! Any schedule on this? I have the AQ issue that reports the introduction of the 330 GT 2+2 on my shelf. I don't know how many pages you have, but if you're interested in photos of a late Series II 330, I'd be happy to oblige - the dash layout is rather different than most photos seem to show, and we've got A/c and PS as well (though the engine compartment is far from concours). From cak Tue Jan 21 16:02:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA03873; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:02:55 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:02:55 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199701220002.QAA03873@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Tom Shaugnessy He's been suggested as a member - anyone want to say "yay" or "nay"? From cak Fri Jan 24 23:12:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id XAA05993; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:12:04 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id CAA19524 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 02:22:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 02:22:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970125022219_-1945683383@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: 330/365 trade? Anyone out there want to trade their 365 2+2 for my 330 2+2? Mine is beautiful, restored 1989. Have receipts. #8705. Wires, pw, air. Black/ red int. Four shows, four second place trophies (don't laugh, YOU try to beat a red, 6-carb 275 GTB with a 2+2 in a show, sometime). ;>) Have had two 330's, would like to try a 365. Harold Pace From cak Sat Jan 25 04:39:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id EAA07415; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 04:39:01 -0800 From: mikeplechaty@juno.com Received: (from mikeplechaty@juno.com) by x4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id HOL00395; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 07:49:44 EST To: ferrari-vintage Cc: witiga@harborside.com, DGetreu@aol.com, Len@250GTE.com, bobflew@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 04:33:04 PST Subject: Re: Rendezvous Notes Message-ID: <19970125.043555.6935.1.MikePlechaty@juno.com> References: <199701221427.IAA27177@pat.mdc.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-5,11,16,21,25,30-31,35-42 The review in AUTOWEEK (10/11/93) said "Rendezvous" was produced in 1965 using a 275GTB with a "nose-mounted" camera. I think word-of-mouth lore has changed the method-of-attachment to "duct tape". The "route", according to AUTOWEEK writer, Rich Merritt, was as follows: "It begins west of the city on Avenue Foch, heading toward the heart of Paris. Lelouche tops out the Ferrari at about 120 mph, lifts slightly to go around the Arc de Triomphe, and then hurtles flat-out down the famous Avenue des Champs Elysees. (We calculated speed by timing him between landmarks, measuring the distance on a map of Paris, and figuring out mph with the help of rally tables.) Then it's flat-out down the Champs Elysees, a right turn at the Place de la Concorde, a left on Quai des Tuileries, and then another left into and through the Louvre. So far, it's broad boulevards with little traffic. But deep into the city proper, traffic increases, buildings hem in, streets narrow. And running stoplights gets scary. Lelouche doesn't just *run* red lights, he ANNIHILATES them. We counted 17 lights blown without even hesitating. Twice he moves into oncoming traffic to avoid cars stopped in his lane. He slows only slightly to avoid pedestrians. Once he even takes to driving on the sidewalk to avoid a garbage truck. Lelouche is relentless on the throttle, with the unmuffled Ferrari bellowing and echoing off the concrete canyons. Unlike other, more recent "at speed" style videos we've seen, there's no deception of speed in "Rendezvous": It's wild. Approaching his destination on Monte Marte, Lelouche tops it all off by screaming up a narrow twisty neighborhood street at full bore. After he screeches to a halt for the closing embrace with his woman in waiting, we sigh with relief. This incredibly lucky fool made it completely across Paris in a mere eight minutes." -Rich Merritt. Friends, I read this review, HAD to have a smoke, then promptly telephoned Classic Motorbooks for a copy. There's no question in my mind that D. Letterman could easily give 10 reasons why viewing "Rendezvous" is better than sex. Well, more satisfying, at least. Classis Motorbooks P.O. Box I Osceola, WI 54020 800-826-6600 Mike Plechaty From cak Tue Jan 28 12:59:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA02963; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:59:01 -0800 Received: from [206.214.133.77] (bal-md8-13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.133.77]) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA29232 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:09:17 -0800 Message-Id: <199701282109.NAA29232@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> Subject: List activity Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 16:13:13 -0500 From: Bruce Rippey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I haven't seen any postings on this list in about a week - is everyone holding his breath, or have I been excommunicated?? Chris...? -Bruce From cak Tue Jan 28 13:05:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA03016; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:05:27 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:05:27 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199701282105.NAA03016@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: brippey@ix.netcom.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: List activity No one's been excommunicated, though I'm tempted to do so to David Booth until he learns to empty his Compu$erve mailbox - I think we just haven't reached critical mass. Don't complain. It could be like the ferrari@nmt.edu list (I finally unsubscribed - it's so nice and quiet in my mailbox now!) I sent mail to Tom S., for those who care - no response. For that matter, I've sent mail to everyone that's been suggested over the month or so; mostly, no response... If there's someone you know and would like to have here, maybe *you* need to lobby with them. From cak Wed Jan 29 18:56:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA04902; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 18:56:25 -0800 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 18:56:25 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199701300256.SAA04902@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: synchronizing carbs It's awfully quiet, so I'll ask a question that's on my mind from time to time. What's the trick to synchronizing the downdraft Webers on our 330? Now, I've synchronized lots of side draft carbs - SUs, Strombergs, Dell'Ortos, Weber DCOEs. None of them gave me as much trouble as the DCZ6s on our 330. I've always used a Uni-Syn. This is dead easy on the British carbs; on the DCOEs you have to make sure the air horns are in place in order to not block the other throat. This isn't so easy on the DCZ; there's no air horn. What do people use as an adapter? Or do I need to buy one of the expensive calibrated airflow meters that has a tapered inlet? That aside, the real problem seems to be the linkage. I know to loosen the arms at the shaft that runs along the rocker cover. Am I supposed to loosen the clamps that connect the arms to the shafts of the sector gears before adjusting the idle screws? If not, I don't understand how the two can be adjusted independently. My throttle plates *never* seem to close all the way when released. I tried pulling the idle screw all the way out and still get suction. (I did this when trying the "factory" method of running the car on one carb at a time - except that the other two carbs were always playing, just a little bit.) There seems to be enough play in the mechanism to provide enough slop to ruin whatever synchronization I achieve. There's got to be a trick - it used to be better than I've left it. But I can't find it. Help? From cak Wed Jan 29 19:56:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA05265; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 19:56:31 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (dd04-120.compuserve.com [199.174.146.120]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA23033; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:07:21 -0800 Message-Id: <199701300407.UAA23033@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Chris Kantarjiev" , , Subject: Re: List activity Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 18:53:40 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I got a very short response to a request to Tom S. re: a 250 GT cabriolet .. four days after I sent the request. I'm assuming that he just isn't in to e-mail. I take no exception if you don't add him to the list. Regards, Bryan Free press is only true for those who own one. H.L. Mencken ---------- > From: Chris Kantarjiev > To: brippey@ix.netcom.com; ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: Re: List activity > Date: Tuesday, January 28, 1997 3:05 PM > > No one's been excommunicated, though I'm tempted to do so to > David Booth until he learns to empty his Compu$erve mailbox - I think > we just haven't reached critical mass. > > Don't complain. It could be like the ferrari@nmt.edu list (I finally > unsubscribed - it's so nice and quiet in my mailbox now!) > > I sent mail to Tom S., for those who care - no response. For that matter, > I've sent mail to everyone that's been suggested over the month or so; > mostly, no response... > > If there's someone you know and would like to have here, maybe *you* > need to lobby with them. From cak Thu Jan 30 13:06:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02888; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 13:06:46 -0800 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA254630 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 23:17:39 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id XAA19596 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 23:17:39 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199701302117.XAA19596@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: synchronizing carbs To: ferrari-vintage Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 23:17:39 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Now, I've synchronized lots of side draft carbs - SUs, Strombergs, > Dell'Ortos, Weber DCOEs. None of them gave me as much trouble as the DCZ6s > on our 330. Just a wild guess, worth remembering though: Have you checked the nozzles (? - those little thing with a hole in the middle you know...) You should never trust the stamp - they may have been enlarged and it is even possible that one has been soldered to have a smaller diameter. Pulling a piano wire of exactly the right diameter through tells you if it's ok and cleans the hole in the same time. The nozzles may develop a clear crystal into their hole and so they may be stuffed though they look perfectly clear when you look through them. Once again, I know nothing - Could it be the time to rebuild the carbs? From cak Thu Jan 30 15:55:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA03843; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 15:55:35 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 15:55:35 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199701302355.PAA03843@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: synchronizing carbs Have you checked the nozzles (? - those little thing with a hole in the middle you know...) We call them "jets" in English. You should never trust the stamp - they may have been enlarged and it is even possible that one has been soldered to have a smaller diameter. Pulling a piano wire of exactly the right diameter through tells you if it's ok and cleans the hole in the same time. The nozzles may develop a clear crystal into their hole and so they may be stuffed though they look perfectly clear when you look through them. While you have a point about them possibly being dirty or resized, it is also (I have been told) a bad idea to use the common wire gauges (I have a set) to check the size. The Weber factory supposedly measures the flow and then stamps accordingly - the size of the hole is not necessarily directly correlated. (I find this a little hard to believe, myself.) However, I'm fairly certain that this isn't a jetting problem. The car runs fine off idle. The idle mixture screws respond as expected. It's just that I can't get even airflow readings from the six carb throats - and no, I haven't yet tried using a rubber hose stuck in my ear. I might soon. From cak Thu Jan 30 19:49:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA05015; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 19:49:42 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd79-028.compuserve.com [199.174.252.28]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA19462; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 20:00:25 -0800 Message-Id: <199701310400.UAA19462@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Chris Kantarjiev" , Subject: Re: synchronizing carbs Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 21:56:57 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris: it's been ages since I tried synchronizing Webers ... and it was only two and not a Ferrari. So my own input is useless. I have a copy of Allen Bishop's book on 308 performance which covers Webers as well. If you would lke, I'll send/fax the apges that deal with carburetion. In summary, though, the author recommends a device which 'is a floating needle in a barrel-shaped housing.' Real useful, eh? No vendor name or anything. It does discuss the linkage issue a bit and notes 'on V-12s and 246 series, the throttle linkage is quite straightforward and does not require disconnection to balance.' Regards, Bryan Free press is only true for those who own one. H.L. Mencken ---------- > From: Chris Kantarjiev > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: synchronizing carbs > Date: Wednesday, January 29, 1997 8:56 PM > > > What's the trick to synchronizing the downdraft Webers on our 330? > > Now, I've synchronized lots of side draft carbs - SUs, Strombergs, > Dell'Ortos, Weber DCOEs. None of them gave me as much trouble as the DCZ6s > on our 330. > > I've always used a Uni-Syn. This is dead easy on the British carbs; > on the DCOEs you have to make sure the air horns are in place in > order to not block the other throat. This isn't so easy on the DCZ; > there's no air horn. What do people use as an adapter? Or do I need > to buy one of the expensive calibrated airflow meters that has > a tapered inlet? > > That aside, the real problem seems to be the linkage. I know to loosen the > arms at the shaft that runs along the rocker cover. Am I supposed > to loosen the clamps that connect the arms to the shafts of the sector gears > before adjusting the idle screws? If not, I don't understand how the two > can be adjusted independently. > > My throttle plates *never* seem to close all the way when released. I > tried pulling the idle screw all the way out and still get suction. > (I did this when trying the "factory" method of running the car on one > carb at a time - except that the other two carbs were always playing, > just a little bit.) There seems to be enough play in the mechanism to > provide enough slop to ruin whatever synchronization I achieve. > > There's got to be a trick - it used to be better than I've left it. > But I can't find it. Help? From cak Fri Jan 31 10:46:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01999; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:46:10 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:46:10 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199701311846.KAA01999@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: synchronizing carbs I've got the Bishop book. I've got the Jim Riff "tuning guide". I've got the FAF tuning guide (which is a polish on the Riff book, apparently). I've got the factory manual. Interestingly enough, it seems that I never read the factory manual carefully; probably because I didn't want to get it filthy while trying to work from it! I did read it last night, and right there it tells me to loosen the clamps, and points out that the idle jets should be *removed* while trying to run the enging on one carb. Never did that. So I have another afternoon's work in front of me, trying again. Don't know when I'll get to it, but I'll let y'all know when I do. I'm still interested in finding out what synchronization device you folks use (Bryan, the description you gave is a Uni-Syn). From cak Fri Jan 31 21:25:46 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA05322; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 21:25:43 -0800 Received: by hil-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA17420; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 00:36:13 -0500 Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 00:35:52 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Weber carb synchronization To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199702010036_MC2-107E-491C@compuserve.com> Hi guys: Just got back from working in Orlando for two weeks and discovered that my attempt to unsubscribe from the RX-7 list was unsuccessful; and therefore my mailbox topped out at a hundred messages (!) the first day -- all of which means that I've missed the first threads of our new group. I have picked up, though, that there's some conversation about synchronizing Weber downdrafts with a Unisyn or other airflow measuring device. I've done mine with the trusty (crusty?) Unisyn and a home-made extension tube as follows: use a 3" long piece of pvc tubing the same approximate size (or larger -- NEVER smaller) as the carb throats, with a piece of rubber sheet also with a hole the same i.d. as the pvc to seal the bottom of the tube where you position the Unisyn-plus extension tube-plus rubber gasket on the top flange of the carb. Balance the whole unwieldy mess on top of the carb and have at it as described in your favorite guide. Mine happens to be the brief but cogent description by Dyke Ridgley and Jim Riff as published in the Ferrari Market Letter of 7 August '82 and reprinted in Dyke and Sue Ridgley's Tech Tips Vol.1, produced by Roush Publications in '92. Now that I've given proper credit, if anybody wants to see it, let me know. The deal about the throttle linkages is very important, since what we're doing here is getting them all EXACTLY the same length, so they're all opening their respective carb throats the same amount at exactly the same time. It's at least as important as "synchronizing" the carbs. The treatise I mentioned above also explains this operation quite well, as does the Bishop book. A word of encouragement: once you've done it, it all seems much clearer and perfectly logical. This kind of job is much harder to describe (and follow) in text form than it is to actually perform the task of synching the carbs. The biggest headache for me is the rather imprecise Unisyn and the whole inelegant, cobbled-up extension tube needed to clear the air cleaner studs on top of the carbs. The alternative synchronizing device you're describing is an STE Synchrometer. It's sort of pistol-shaped and has a soft, tapered nose, which eliminates the need for the whole silly extension tube thing on the Unisyn; and has a much more precise numeric gage on a rotating barrel inside a clear housing instead of the Unisyn's crude float mechanism. The STE used to be available from FAF before they became Ferrari of Atlanta and turned useless as a bircage full of goat shit (editorial). Like so many Ferrari parts, I somehow thought they would be available forever and neglected to get one while the getting was good. A couple of years ago, I did do about a day's worth of searching, and found a local (San Diego) Alfa shop guy who said he was pretty sure he could order me one. Again, if anyone's interested, let me know -- maybe we can get a better price for a couple-three. Regards, Dave Booth Vista, Ca. From cak Sat Feb 1 01:38:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id BAA06509; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 01:38:20 -0800 Received: from 204.140.219.43 (dial014w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.43]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id BAA29553 for ; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 01:49:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 21:25:40 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: The Carbs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, Eduardo Weber was put on this earth to torment me, and some others as well it would seem. (three cars with Webers under my large belt). Basically, I haven't tuned my Ferrari carbs yet, but I have watched - for whatever that is worth. The Mechanic used a uni-syn, I have heard that a peice of radiator hose is useful, but it is not needed on a 250. He was able to completly close the butterfly and see the result on the syncroniser, but the carbs do not idle correctly at the moment. - after he was finished. ( I should have complained, but I am far to compliant) He took off the air cleaner, filters, and studs, and voila, a flat surface for the uni-syn was obtained. I am not convinced , but he thought it was fine. The bottom line is, Chris, if you want to buy the fancy schmancy calibrated carb syncroniser, I will pay half and have it mailed to me when I want to faf around with the carb's. But at the moment I hav'nt come to the conclusion that it is possible for the average Joe to syncronise the Ferrari carb's, so I will pay for someone to get it right, then write down the numbers from a calibrated syncroniser for future reference. Later , Andrew Brent. From cak Sat Feb 1 12:33:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA02299; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 12:33:20 -0800 Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 12:33:20 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199702012033.MAA02299@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Weber carb synchronization Yah, I knew about getting the linkages all the same; did that. (I have three 40DCOEs on my GT6+, and I fabbed the linkage from pieces myself - I learned a *lot* about linkages). What price can you get on the synchrometer? Automotion (a Porsche parts house) lists them for just under $70. My Dave Bean price list has them for about $60 - but it's an older list, so the price may have gone up. I get frustrated enough by my Uni-Syn that I'd be willing to replace it with something better. (Talk about decadent - Charlie Rockwell, who used to get all my classics past the smog police until he decided he needed a day job, used to use two synchrometers simultaneously, for direct comparisons. Very lush.) From cak Sat Feb 1 12:37:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA02332; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 12:37:24 -0800 Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 12:37:24 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199702012037.MAA02332@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: The Carbs But at the moment I hav'nt come to the conclusion that it is possible for the average Joe to syncronise the Ferrari carb's, so I will pay for someone to get it right, Ah, and there lies the beginning of the Ferrari "mystique", that has kept all those mechanics in business for so long. I don't buy it. Those guys have more experience than I do, sure, but are not any smarter. I can figure this out. I just need enough patience! From cak Sun Feb 2 08:53:36 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA01269; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 08:53:33 -0800 Received: by hil-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id MAA14115; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 12:04:02 -0500 Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 12:03:42 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: To wrench or not to wrench To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199702021204_MC2-10A6-CD39@compuserve.com> I second Chris' emotion regarding whether or not the average guy should be messing with the internals of his Weber carbs, or by extension, ANY part of the internals of his/her Ferrari. As compared to a British sportscar or any GM product of the last 25 years, Ferraris and nearly all their ancillary parts are engineered so straightforwardly, and built so robustly, that working on them successfully is simply not that hard. One thing's for sure -- you're not going to be tightening a screw that last little smidge and hear the sickening crunch of plastic breaking. I'm all for giving a good mechanic his/her due. But let's face it -- most people don't wind up working in a garage professionally because of the cutbacks in the US space program. So now that I'm WAY out on this limb, let me just reach for my saw and ask the following... Anybody ever hear a discussion of just how to properly sort out a vintage Ferrari front suspension after it's been took apart and all those cute lil bronze shims tossed into a pile by some idiot mechanic at some point in the car's dark past? I did a passable enough job on my cabriolet in '94, I guess, since the car doesn't want to leap for the ditches and the tires aren't screaming and shedding rubber in protest. I sort of did it by process of elimination, and trying to get everything basically equal. The fact that I was one shim short at the outset made it a little like an algebra problem, in which subject I received a D in ninth grade, but the end result seems to be basically okay. Biggest question mark is that the A-arms would move with zero slop and no binding without the spring in place, and behave differently with the spring mounted. I've encouraged Len Miller to research an answer for his GTE handbook, but one man has just so much time available. Any ideas, anyone? Dave Booth From cak Sun Feb 2 14:37:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA02905; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 14:37:55 -0800 Received: from 204.140.219.54 (dial025w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.54]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id OAA27372 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 14:48:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 23:17:23 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: The Carb's Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry everybody for my "average Joe" comment. I actually do work on the car, and it is straightforward. The Weber's however drive me nuts, this is the third car I have owned with these carb's and I am yet to have one which idles. I've rebuilt them, adjusted them, thumped them, but they only seem to work after a visit to a professional. Having said that my experiences were on a Mazda and a Fiat, I haven't touched the Ferrari yet, but it's not right at the moment either - and all three were rebuilt before I took delivery of the car. (yes, the Weber on the Mazda was an after-market, I bought it, no laughing please.). I don't know what I'm missing, (experience/knowledge wise) which makes me reluctant to have another go. I would like to see some discussion about suspension, particulary sources for bushings/hint's etc. Also I can't seem to find anything on the Koni's for that old of a car. Do they just get re-built or does someone know where to get new ones. Andrew. From cak Sun Feb 2 18:55:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA04119; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 18:55:06 -0800 Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 18:55:06 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199702030255.SAA04119@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Konis A while back I did some research on the Konis on the 330 ... oh yeah, it was because the protective dust covers were torn and I wanted to replace them. I somehow tracked down this gentleman: Name: Gary Winters Company: ITT Parts Supply Division Address: 8085 Production Avenue Florence, KY 41042 Phone: (606) 727-5028 switchboard (606) 727-5011 Winters who was able to look up the original specs for me (it turned out that what is in the workshop manual is correct). He also told me that the dust cover wasn't a Koni part, but apparently something Ferrari added. My shocks are in fine shape, but he said that new ones could be had from Name: Stuart Company: Custom Spares Phone: (914) 923-2525 That is, one should talk to Stuart, and tell him that Gary Winters sent you. Don't know about 250 shocks, though. The front suspension on the 330 was disassembled and reassembled during the accident repair work, but I wasn't involved. My various reading about the setup led me to believe that there aren't any shims in there at all... I thought the only thing adjustable was toe! From cak Mon Feb 3 22:00:36 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA06115; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 22:00:34 -0800 Received: by dub-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA16209; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 01:11:06 -0500 Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 01:10:51 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Konis, suspension and SII cab To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199702040111_MC2-10B5-E0E9@compuserve.com> Thanks for the suggestion from Bob Weeks re: my question on how to sort the shims in a Ferrari kingpin front suspension. I clearly should have said at the outset of my post that all the pins and bushings were brand new. That was not therefore the source of my problem. Also saw the question about Koni shox in the earlier suspensions. Man, I'm bummed to hear that you can't buy them from Koni any more. I do have a resource, though, for rebuilding the coil-over Konis used in the rear suspension, and presumably this same individual has the capability of doing the fronts as well. His info's in a file at my office, and I can post it to the group tom'w if desired. Also in reading through the archive, I noticed a brief mention that Tom Shaughnessey was the guy with the SII cab with Lusso motor for sale. I saw this same car (s/n 3787) in the restoration shop today after dismantling to the bare bodyshell, and a trip past the abrasive blaster. Also had a chance to look at the dosumentary photos the shop took before they started. Brother! The phrase "..in need of ful rstoration.." is the kindest possible description of this pathetic collection of rusted metal. Hey Len: the chicken woulda PASSED on this car. It apparently sold for $30k, and it will take a small fortune to set it to rights. Maybe a big fortune. Regards to all, Dave Booth From cak Tue Feb 4 21:39:19 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA05741; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 21:39:16 -0800 Received: by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA28118; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 00:49:49 -0500 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 00:49:24 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Front suspension and SII cab To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199702050049_MC2-10D9-BAEE@compuserve.com> My thanks to Bob Weeks for his offer of an exploded view drawing of the 330 front suspension. I have that drawing myself, as well as the relevant ones for early and late 250s. I apparently stated my question badly, though. What I'm looking for is the guiding principle -- the method -- the essence of deciding what thickness shim to use where. Also, to respond to Leonard Schmitt's question about the SII cab that I saw Monday: no, it was not a rollover. It was simply the saddest, most forlorn, neglected Ferrari I've ever seen. Ever. The body was a hodgepodge of poorly done patches -- particularly in the floor area, and after going through the blaster, was lacier than a June bride's bodice. The soft top was long gone, the engine was a 168 (Lusso/Cal Spyder), the leatherwork looked like it had been salvaged from a shipwreck, and you could just barely tell that the brightwork had once actually been bright. The shop owner said the car's purchaser was very fussy, and would have completely gone through a $150,000 example; so why not save money on the front end and get the same end result? The logic of this argument was somewhat lost on me, since they plan to scrounge up a 250 coupe or a GTE for the correct era motor and whatever spare bits they might need. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the very first thing most "discerning" people look for is the matching numbers for the engine and chassis? This is a first class shop whose work regularly wins trophies (if you're into that sort of thing), and the head guy figures the car will be in the shop for a year at least. I guess if you've got the money and you know what you want, what's to argue? With best regards, Dave Booth Vista, Ca. From cak Tue Feb 4 21:57:32 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA05867; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 21:57:30 -0800 Received: by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA00483; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 01:08:04 -0500 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 01:07:47 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: SII cab etc. To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199702050108_MC2-10D5-30D9@compuserve.com> To Bryan Cashion: you're more than welcome for the info. Don't EVER waste a regret on having missed this particular, pathetic example. I'm sure that it will be in all the prominent shows one day, looking beautiful -- since there's a lot of truth to the joke about the hopeful little boy furiously shoveling horseshit on Christmas morning, all the while exclaiming, "I know there's a pony in here somewhere". To Chris K: yes it was a post to the list Monday evening. I received a copy myself and since I've received replies from three other people, I guess you must have missed it somehow. Maybe it has something to do with that crack last week about me learning how to empty my C-serve mailbox. The answer, as I finally discovered just today, was getting the syntax EXACTLY right in my unsubscribe message to the RX-7 list. Up to that point, I was getting up to 160 posts a day, and Compuserve will only allow 100 to accumulate. Best, Dave Booth From cak Wed Feb 5 08:44:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA01412; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 08:44:29 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout01.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id LAA01737; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 11:54:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 11:54:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970205114241_205176040@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: 104375.2245@compuserve.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Front suspension and SII cab If they scrounge up a coupe or GTE for a correct era engine and parts for the cabriolet, they will then have TWO Ferraris with the wrong motors instead of one. Duh. Since it is not a match number motor anyway (and they surely wouldn't think of changing the motor numbers, eh?), then the extra hp from the Lusso motor would make the cab more fun to drive. Why ruin another Ferrari just because one is wrong? Harold Pace From cak Wed Feb 5 19:22:28 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA04782; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:22:26 -0800 Received: by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id WAA27491; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 22:32:58 -0500 Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 22:32:46 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Why butcher two? To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199702052232_MC2-10D7-FDCE@compuserve.com> I think Harold's put it pretty succinctly -- why screw up another vintage Ferrari, erasing it forever from the rolls of Those Still Surviving, when the net result of the change will still be a devalued SII cab, due to the "wrong" engine serial number in the chassis. The owner of this car was described to me (most diplomatically I'm sure) as "..very fussy..", which generally means "money's no object": music to the ears of a restoration shop owner. So exactly WHY he seems so intent on pouring a very large amount of cash into a car that can never quite be "right" in the somewhat twisted argot of the classic car world is curious. The only reason that would hold water is the higher relative market value of the cab, I guess. I think Harold's got another good point: the cab would probably be more fun with the 168 motor as opposed to a 128(C,D,F, whatever). There's a guy named Dave Walmsley up in Malibu who converted a GTE rollover into a Cal Spyder using a 168 motor, and his car rocks. I bought one of his doors for my GTE, and his parts ad is still floating around Hemmings and in Len's newsletter as well. I've seen the folorn remaining parts languishing in a field behind Walmsley's house and I think I got the last decent panel, if anyone's interested. Might be some trim parts there, though. Best to all, Dave Booth From cak Thu Feb 6 05:47:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA00374; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 05:47:44 -0800 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id PAA282562 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 15:58:47 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id PAA22044 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 15:58:46 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199702061358.PAA22044@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: s.2 cabrio etc... To: ferrari-vintage Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 15:58:45 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The shop owner said the car's purchaser was very fussy, and would have > completely gone through a $150,000 example; so why not save money on the > front end and get the same end result? The logic of this argument was > somewhat lost on me, since they plan to scrounge up a 250 coupe or a GTE > for the correct era motor and whatever spare bits they might need. Correct > me if I'm wrong, but isn't the very first thing most "discerning" people > look for is the matching numbers for the engine and chassis? Many people don't either care or have never heard of matching numbers. There are still many devoted long time Ferrari owners who know very little of what they own. This is quite common in Europe where owning an oldtimer quite rarely makes people to really involve with the car, its history and clubs etc. I have understood that in USA people tend to join FCA or a local club when they purchase a Ferrari. There must be a lot of people with a little different approach - people who don't want to waste their time on the car they own - just enjoy it every once in a while if it's sunny enough... In my opinion it's much more appropriate to waste a vintage Ferrari wreck on saving another one in it's original configuration than to convert it into yet another lousy GTO- or Testa Rossa-replica. If they waste a restorable matching numbers car - well, that's a shame, but so it seems to go way too often these days - no matter how much we hate it happening. Kare From cak Thu Feb 6 19:28:12 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA04887; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 19:28:09 -0800 Received: by dub-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id WAA07215; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:38:43 -0500 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:38:15 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Harold's 330 America inquiry To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199702062238_MC2-10F9-616A@compuserve.com> Harold, thanks for the article. I'll forward it to Kare. My GTE is #4799 -- one of the later third series cars. It was apparently owned for a time by a young woman in the tidewater Virginia area who shared that common automotive orientation that you put in gas, turn the key and go. Oil is also helpful, as she apparently discovered when the engine blew. Engine #5033 from a 330 America (the exact middle of the production run) was with the engineless car when I bought it. The story goes that #5033 went into a stand of small trees at a high rate of knots, totaling it. The water pump shaft was bent, but the engine was otherwise unharmed. Several years ago, I was passed on a local freeway by a maroon coupe that was carving through the traffic like a shark through tuna. I thought, "damn -- that's a GTE.." and set out after him. I wound up following him home, to discover it was a 330 America, and the driver/owner was one Dave Deal, who for years did all the catalog and ad illustrations for MG Mitten. Dave later sold the car to a rural doctor here in San Diego who has yet to return even one of my phone calls inquiring about the car, its serial number, condition, etc. to report to Len Miller. You may not be aware of a nice article Cavallino did on the America, based on Peter Kalikow's #5105 fairly recently. Be happy to send you a copy if you don't have it. Regards, Dave Booth From cak Fri Feb 7 20:08:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA04810; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 20:08:17 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad54-103.compuserve.com [199.174.187.103]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA22604 for ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 20:19:12 -0800 Message-Id: <199702080419.UAA22604@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Chris' V-12 group" Subject: 250 GTE authenticity Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 21:36:13 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is 250 GTE for sale in the DuPont Registry Web page http://www.dupontregistry.com/finecars/results/6AC-12-676B.html The ad notes that the car has just finished a major restoration. The front bumper doesn't have the vertical bumperettes that I thought were on all 250 GTEs. Is this car correct or did they tinker? It also doesn't have the fender mirrors, but I think those were not on all GTEs either. Regards, Bryan Free press is only true for those who own one. H.L. Mencken From cak Sat Feb 8 00:43:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id AAA06067; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 00:43:03 -0800 Received: from 204.140.219.46 (dial017w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.46]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id AAA09720 for ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 00:54:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 20:55:43 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: 250GTE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, I agree with Bryan. My car has the vertical bumperetts, and one Fender mirror on the drivers side. But, my car is a 63. This one is a 61. I defer to Len. The colour looks correct, I think my car was that colour. Andrew. From cak Sat Feb 8 04:49:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id EAA07165; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 04:49:50 -0800 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id PAA52634 for ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 15:00:55 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id PAA16289 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 15:00:56 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199702081300.PAA16289@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: 250 GTE auth... and s.2 prototipos To: ferrari-vintage Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 15:00:55 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > There is 250 GTE for sale in the DuPont Registry > Web page http://www.dupontregistry.com/finecars/results/6AC-12-676B.html > The ad notes that the car has just finished a major restoration. The front > bumper doesn't have the vertical bumperettes that I thought were on all 250 > GTEs. Is this car correct or did they tinker? It also doesn't have the > fender mirrors, but I think those were not on all GTEs either. My vote goes for dealer installed mirrors on these cars as all pictures, no matter if they date from early 60's or mid 90's seem to show different types of mirrors, both bullet-type and flat ones installed on either front fenders or the driver door... The TM-article I've sent copies to some of you shows s/n 2431 two weeks after delivery and it has no mirrors at all. Our 3197 has a square shaped mirror assembled on the front fender... I believe all cars had the vertical bumperettes (aren't these things also called over-riders in english?) - never seen another car without them... Another thing that's been bothering me to some extent are these 2 or 3 sc. GTE Series 2 Prototipos produced in the end of 1961; Many sources state that the only difference between s.1 and s.2 cars is the differences in dashboard layout - you know the added Amp-meter and the layout changed from 4-gauges- in-a-row into 5-gauges-in-an-Olympic-ring-pattern (or 4 gauges and a fresh air inlet to be exact?). Now I don't get it: What's the idea of designating certain cars as Prototipos if the only difference is this dashboard layout thing? Did they have some special features as well? Then again our car (about 40th s.2 car procuced) still has this older dash- board layout - Confusing or should I say typical when we are discussing the vintage Ferraris... From cak Sat Feb 8 06:22:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00541; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 06:22:16 -0800 From: mikeplechaty@juno.com Received: (from mikeplechaty@juno.com) by x4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id JeI09993; Sat, 08 Feb 1997 09:33:05 EST To: cashion@sprynet.com Cc: ferrari-vintage Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 05:56:15 PST Subject: Re: 250 GTE authenticity Message-ID: <19970208.063004.11719.0.MikePlechaty@juno.com> References: <199702080419.UAA22604@m1.sprynet.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3 Very early GTE's didn't necessarily have the rubber inserts in the bumperettes. I bought a bumper from a parted-out GTE years ago that didn't have the inserts; fortunately (for me), I was able to trade for what my GTE needed. From cak Sat Feb 8 13:36:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02752; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 13:36:44 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd27-118.compuserve.com [199.174.226.118]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA25927; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 13:47:44 -0800 Message-Id: <199702082147.NAA25927@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Kare M A Pietil{" , Subject: Re: 250 GTE auth... and s.2 prototipos Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 15:39:50 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fitsgerald and Merritt have pictures and indicate that the difference between first prototype (as shown at Le Mans '60) and the second was that the second had headlight bezels, functional louvers behind the rear seat side windows, and the small lights on the side of the front fenders that blinked along with the turn indicator lights on the front. The third prototype did not have the louvers but doesn't appear much different otherwise. The production model did add louvers on the front fender. None of the cars in the F&M pictures have mirrors! That surprised me ... my memory of the LM car did have fender mirrors. Regards, Bryan Free press is only true for those who own one. H.L. Mencken ---------- > From: Kare M A Pietil{ > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: 250 GTE auth... and s.2 prototipos > Date: Saturday, February 08, 1997 7:00 AM > My vote goes for dealer installed mirrors on these cars as all pictures, > no matter if they date from early 60's or mid 90's seem to show different > types of mirrors, both bullet-type and flat ones installed on either > front fenders or the driver door... The TM-article I've sent copies to some > of you shows s/n 2431 two weeks after delivery and it has no mirrors at all. > Our 3197 has a square shaped mirror assembled on the front fender... > > I believe all cars had the vertical bumperettes (aren't these things also > called over-riders in english?) - never seen another car without them... > > Another thing that's been bothering me to some extent are these 2 or 3 sc. > GTE Series 2 Prototipos produced in the end of 1961; Many sources state that > the only difference between s.1 and s.2 cars is the differences in dashboard > layout - you know the added Amp-meter and the layout changed from 4-gauges- > in-a-row into 5-gauges-in-an-Olympic-ring-pattern (or 4 gauges and a fresh > air inlet to be exact?). > > Now I don't get it: What's the idea of designating certain cars as Prototipos > if the only difference is this dashboard layout thing? Did they have some > special features as well? > > Then again our car (about 40th s.2 car procuced) still has this older dash- > board layout - Confusing or should I say typical when we are discussing the > vintage Ferraris... From cak Sat Feb 8 18:16:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA04080; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 18:16:47 -0800 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id EAA110176 for ; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 04:27:52 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id EAA27656 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 04:27:54 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199702090227.EAA27656@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: Re: 250 GTE auth... and s.2 prototipos To: ferrari-vintage Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 04:27:54 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Fitsgerald and Merritt have pictures and indicate that the difference > between first prototype (as shown at Le Mans '60) and the second was that > the second had headlight bezels, functional louvers behind the rear seat > side windows, and the small lights on the side of the front fenders that > blinked along with the turn indicator lights on the front. The third > prototype did not have the louvers but doesn't appear much different > otherwise. The production model did add louvers on the front fender. None > of the cars in the F&M pictures have mirrors! That surprised me ... my > memory of the LM car did have fender mirrors. Initially I meant the later prototipos for 1962 series 2 version of GTE, but these very first prototipos manufactured between may 1959 and june 1960 are actually far more interesting... Let me add and correct few things, if you don't mind: The silver car with c-pillar louvers (1287) was the first prototipo. It had no front fender louvres to start with, but they were later added and the c-pillar louvres had vanished in the meantime. I am 99% positive that David Owen's "Ferrari 4-seaters; 1960 on" shows a picture of this car in revised form. It has those chrome rings around its headlights no other early car to my knowledge had and the picture even shows the visible vent window hinge unseen on any other GTE! Next two cars were 1895 and 1903. 1895 went to Le Mans and had no louvers to start with - I don't know if they were added later as I have never seen another picture of this example. 1903 was used for advertising: I'm positive it didn't have the front wing louvres to start with either, but 14 louvres were cut directly to the front wing before sales brochure pictures were taken. Pininfarina is said to have considered the louvres to be a very essential element in the final styling, so it is possible that he had them added before any advertising pictures were shot - he was a perfectionist - at least he said so himself... This is all clear, but then Stan Nowak's Appendix lists 1507GT as a reported GTE prorotipo. What might this be? 1287 renumbered in its revised form or a simple misunderstanding? -- Son 09-02-97 00:52 3.840 kg 52 cm From cak Sun Feb 9 19:07:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA04229; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 19:07:51 -0800 Received: from 204.140.219.49 (dial020w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.49]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id TAA27513 for ; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 19:18:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32FE28F9.6DB3@net-quest.com> Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:43:54 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: P.F. Coupe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Advertised in the L.A. Times today, 59 P.F. coupe 60K miles $34,999.00 714-964-7813 From cak Sun Feb 9 19:36:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA04361; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 19:36:04 -0800 Received: from [199.183.205.207] (bal-md6-15.ix.netcom.com [199.183.205.207]) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA26216 for ; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 19:46:20 -0800 Message-Id: <199702100346.TAA26216@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: P.F. Coupe Date: Sun, 9 Feb 97 22:46:43 -0500 From: Bruce Rippey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Advertised in the L.A. Times today, > >59 P.F. coupe 60K miles $34,999.00 Andrew - was there a serial number mentioned? Bruce From cak Mon Feb 10 06:45:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00690; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 06:45:44 -0800 Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 9:55:27 -0500 (EST) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <970210095527.3cf51@idx.com> Subject: FWD: 250 GTE auth... and s.2 prototipos > There is 250 GTE for sale in the DuPont Registry > Web page http://www.dupontregistry.com/finecars/results/6AC-12-676B.html > The ad notes that the car has just finished a major restoration. The front > bumper doesn't have the vertical bumperettes that I thought were on all 250 > GTEs. Is this car correct or did they tinker? It also doesn't have the > fender mirrors, but I think those were not on all GTEs either. >>My vote goes for dealer installed mirrors on these cars as all pictures, >>no matter if they date from early 60's or mid 90's seem to show different >>types of mirrors, both bullet-type and flat ones installed on either >>front fenders or the driver door... The TM-article I've sent copies to some >>of you shows s/n 2431 two weeks after delivery and it has no mirrors at all. >>Our 3197 has a square shaped mirror assembled on the front fender... >>I believe all cars had the vertical bumperettes (aren't these things also >>called over-riders in english?) - never seen another car without them... >>Another thing that's been bothering me to some extent are these 2 or 3 sc. >>GTE Series 2 Prototipos produced in the end of 1961; Many sources state that >>the only difference between s.1 and s.2 cars is the differences in dashboard >>layout - you know the added Amp-meter and the layout changed from 4-gauges- >>in-a-row into 5-gauges-in-an-Olympic-ring-pattern (or 4 gauges and a fresh >>air inlet to be exact?). >>Now I don't get it: What's the idea of designating certain cars as Prototipos >>if the only difference is this dashboard layout thing? Did they have some >>special features as well? >>Then again our car (about 40th s.2 car procuced) still has this older dash- >>board layout - Confusing or should I say typical when we are discussing the >>vintage Ferraris... I too believe that mirrors were either dealer or owner installed -- Period factory photos rarely show mirrors on GTE's or any other Ferrari of that era. The vertical bumperettes were standard on all three Series but I don't recall if they appeared on the prototipos. It should be noted that during the 60's "special" customer requests were frequently honored, so this car may have had the bumperettes omitted. This would have to be factory documented, however, to get passed by an FCA concours judge. I don't have my reference library here at work but recall some differences in the GTE prototypes. Ferrari frequently (always?) built one or more prototypes probably to debug the overall design and build process. These cars also allowed Ferrari to introduce new models, and get feedback before they geared up for production. It is not unusual to see prototypes that have or lack features found on cars from the production run. Now for the GTE prototypes: 1) At least one of the prototypes lacked driving lights 2) One of the prototypes had external headlight trim rings similar to those found on Series III 3) The louvers in the front fenders of one of the prototypes were cut into the sheetmetal; not separate, bolt in pieces as found in production cars. 4) One of the prototypes had louvers in the sail panels 5) The first prototype (maybe more?) was fitted with a 128F engine, like those used in the PF coupe. This engine had outside plug heads but only 3 headbolts per cylinder; it also had 16 cam cover stud vs 14 for the 128E, as well as other differences. There may have been other differences too -- I'll check tonight. Bob Weeks From cak Mon Feb 10 19:44:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA05260; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:44:15 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout03.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id WAA25871; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 22:54:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 22:54:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970210225441_-1207608495@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: WEEKS@VTA.dnet.idx.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: FWD: 250 GTE auth... and s.2 prototipos Speaking of prototypes, does anyone know what happened to #2257SA, which was a 250 GTE body with a 400SA engine built for Enzo himself as a testbed for the 330 series? Is it still around? Are there any photos of it? Was anything else different about it? It is mentioned in the Osprey book on Ferrari Four Seaters by David Owen, but not much info or photo. Harold Pace From cak Tue Feb 11 00:04:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id AAA06514; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 00:04:13 -0800 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id KAA282250 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:15:20 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id KAA19046 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:15:20 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199702110815.KAA19046@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: Re: 2257SA... To: ferrari-vintage Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:15:20 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harold pace wrote: > Speaking of prototypes, does anyone know what happened to #2257SA, which was > a 250 GTE body with a 400SA engine built for Enzo himself as a testbed for > the 330 series? Is it still around? Are there any photos of it? Was anything > else different about it? It is mentioned in the Osprey book on Ferrari Four > Seaters by David Owen, but not much info or photo. Often wondered the same thing myself... According to the chassis number appendix of Stanley Nowak's "Ferrari on the Road" Owen seems to mix two separate cars when describing 2257SA: 2257SA 400 Superamerica 2+2 Speciale by Pininfarina. First owner: Michel Paul Cavallier Original location: France Current location: Usa Remark: 400SA engine installed into a 250 GTE 2+2 body. 2947GT 330 America 2+2 Pininfarina First owner: Enzo Ferrari? Original location: Italy Current location: (not mentioned) Remark: Believed to be prototype for 330 America. This is all info I have ever come accross. ps. Note that the "current location" remark can refer to any date from mid 60's to present day... From cak Tue Feb 11 20:07:41 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA05150; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:07:40 -0800 Received: by dub-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA24828; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:18:18 -0500 Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:18:00 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Catchin' up To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199702112318_MC2-1122-43A7@compuserve.com> Hi all: Just got back from working in Las Vegas this past weekend and reading the group's traffic. Bob Weeks: ..a 128F motor with the older three-headbolt configuration? I thought that the two were mutually exclusive. Shows how ignorant I am. Then again, in Italy, it seems that rules were made to be broken. Andrew and Harold: it figures, just as soon as I start spouting off about the 330 America piece in Cavallino, I can't lay hands on it. I'll try another look, and if I can't come up with it, I'll copy my copy and send it along, provided you don't mind losing a generation of quality. Hey -- I remember meeting and talking with Bob Lloyd some years ago when he was very active in the used vintage Ferrari scene. Wasn't his girlfriend/partner named Kathleen? Are they still active in the hobby? Best to all, Dave Booth From cak Wed Feb 12 20:35:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA05125; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 20:35:23 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout11.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id XAA04497; Wed, 12 Feb 1997 23:46:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 23:46:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970212234558_1996145423@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: 104375.2245@compuserve.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Catchin' up >Hey -- I remember meeting and talking with Bob Lloyd some >years ago when he >was very active in the used vintage Ferrari scene. Wasn't his >girlfriend/partner named Kathleen? Are they still active in >the hobby? Dave, Her name was Kathleen McClure. She owned a Maserati A6G2000 Allemano coupe,a 166 Vignale coupe and a BMW vintage road bike. Neat lady. I don't know where either one of them are, but would like to know. They were great people. I bought my first Ferrari, a 1956 Boano from them for $6700 in good running condition in 1980. It was 0633GT. By the way, would love to have any copy of the America article, no matter how bad! Harold Pace From cak Thu Feb 13 19:50:44 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA04976; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:50:42 -0800 Received: by arl-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA21567; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:01:22 -0500 Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 23:01:04 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: What kinda motor..? To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199702132301_MC2-1141-506F@compuserve.com> Bob Weeks well-researched explanation of the different types sure clarified the characteristics that delineate the A-F versions of the great Ferrari Type 128 motor, but now I'm even more confused than ever about the engine in my Series II cabriolet. The car's serial number is 2105GT, and I calculate that it was actually screwed together in the summer of 1960. It is #72 of the 200 SII cabs built, therefore what cab afficionados call a "first-hundred" car. This generally means some minor interior differences, and the use of Houdaille lever-action shocks instead of tube-action Konis. But the question of the engine gets curiouser and curiouser. The engine identity line on the chassis plate (the one on the firewall) is stamped 128F. But... it's an outside plug, four-bolt head with coil valve springs and 16-stud cam covers. So what does that combination mean? The timing chest and block are both authentically stamped with the correct serial number, but there's a twist there too. The number 5 on the block looks a little different from the same number on the timing chest. So I had a pretty long series of correspondence with Gerald Roush of FAF and FML fame on this topic. Without revealing his theory, he led me through a series of questions and probings of the numbers actually cast into the metal, and the results led him to pronounce this particular block a factory replacement Testarossa-spec unit. Oddly enough, his notes on this particular car indicate that in the early seventies, it was advertised for sale with all manner of racing parts on it, including hot cam, six-carb setup, special heads, and on and on. As you might expect, when I began tearing it down, none of that supposed go-fast stuff was anywhere to be found. Just a tired old motor that had been glued together by some shoemaker of a mechanic with about eight tubes of that stupid orange RTV sealant. The crowning touch was an inch-and-a-half-long piece of round file that some dolt had broken off in the motor, and had fallen all the way down to the bottom of the sump. At least it couldn't do any harm there, huh? But this replacement TR block does make me wonder sometimes whether this once was a Maranello hotrod. Also, to the guys interested in the Cavallino piece on the 330 America, I finally did find it. It's in issue #69, June/July '92 with the scrumptious yellow 375MM on the cover. Best to all, Dave Booth From cak Fri Feb 14 07:35:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA00967; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 07:35:17 -0800 Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:46:03 -0500 (EST) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <970214104603.4342c@idx.com> Subject: RE: What kinda motor..? Dave Booth's research on the engine in his PF cab is interesting to say the least. Pourret's book discussed the TR engine but I seem to recall that it had its own designation. I'll check this weekend to see what he has to say. Also I am not completely clear on the evolution of the 128F engine. As I mentioned in my review, an FML article on the PF coupe indicated 3 major revisions - perhaps one of these included 4 bolt heads but I didn't see any reference to it in Pourret. Of course Pourret's main focus was 250 competition cars so he could have overlooked a few details in the street engines. Bob Weeks From cak Fri Feb 14 19:30:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA04705; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 19:30:46 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd11-103.compuserve.com [199.174.218.103]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA15569 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 19:41:56 -0800 Message-Id: <199702150341.TAA15569@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: 330 GT 2+2 air conditioning Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:37:14 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What can the list tell me about a/c in 330 2+2s? I understand from Harold that many (all?) were set up to take York compressors. What else is needed if I wanted to put in a/c into a car (don't have it yet)? (the sound of the engine would be nice, but this is Texas ... we have three seasons here .. summer, July, and August) Regards, Bryan I had to stop driving my car for a while ... the tires got dizzy. Steven Wright. From cak Sat Feb 15 18:34:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA04137; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 18:34:54 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA12917 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 20:45:36 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199702160245.UAA12917@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> Received: from bal-md6-01.ix.netcom.com(199.183.205.193) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma012904; Sat Feb 15 20:45:17 1997 Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 air conditioning Date: Sat, 15 Feb 97 21:45:55 -0500 From: Bruce Rippey To: "Brian Cashion" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" If the 330s were set up for an A/C compressor, I can't imagine how a previous owner could have botched an installation so badly as that on my car bought in 1974. The compressor itself (I think it WAS a York) took up so much space that the installer had to remove one of the oil filler ports and re-install the corresponding filter on its side on top of the cam cover. A section of the top radiator tank was cut away. Brackets were made to hold the unit, rather awkwardly, in position. The evaporator coil was mounted in a refabricated rear window shelf, partially blocking the rear view, and the blower beneath it in the trunk. Long hoses ran from one end of the car to the other. Various other components, such as the drier, were tacked on where room was found. It never worked, and I never tried to resurrect it. When renovation began some years later in the 1980s, I had the whole works stripped out and returned to original condition. I sympathize with you in Texas climate; had I lived farther south I would surely have switched to a neater installation, especially given the smaller compressors available today. That engine does pump out large quantities of heat. -Bruce Bruce Rippey Glen Arm, MD brippey@ix.netcom.com From cak Tue Feb 18 21:34:35 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA05403; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 21:34:33 -0800 Received: by arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA27618; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 00:45:17 -0500 Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 00:41:53 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: 330 America article and miscellany To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199702190042_MC2-116A-DD31@compuserve.com> Hi guys: Just got back from another working weekend in Las Vegas and wanted to let the interested recipients (Kare, Bob and Harold, I believe) know that the recently retireved Cavallino article on the 330 America will get copied and sent to each this week. Bob Weeks mailing address is the only one I don't have. If I'm remembering the request correctly, Bob, please let me have the necessary info. I'm going to be into the new upholstery portion of my cab's restoration before too long and wanted to know if anyone else has been shocked at the seemingly outrageous prices being quoted by people around the hobby. While at Concours Italiano this year, I had a nice conversation with the folks at Hudson Valley Interiors. Nice, that is, right up to the point where they quoted me about seven thousand dollars -- in American money -- for reupholstering two bucket seats, two door panels and the assorted flat kick/trim panels. I struggled mightily just to keep my composure and walk out of their tent upright. Anybody have any comments or experience to share? Regards, Dave Booth From cak Tue Feb 18 22:57:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA05828; Tue, 18 Feb 1997 22:57:52 -0800 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id JAA97334 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:09:06 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id JAA21335 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:09:06 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199702190709.JAA21335@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: Leather... To: ferrari-vintage Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:09:06 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > While at Concours Italiano this year, I had a nice conversation with the > folks at Hudson Valley Interiors. Nice, that is, right up to the point > where they quoted me about seven thousand dollars -- in American money -- > for reupholstering two bucket seats, two door panels and the assorted flat > kick/trim panels. I struggled mightily just to keep my composure and walk > out of their tent upright. > > Anybody have any comments or experience to share? Sounds like a *lot* of money... There was a quite large article on Connolly leather in Classic & Sportscar September 1992 issue: (I'll add a xerox-copy for you to examine, Dave) "Price of re-upholstery of a pair of bucket seats would normally cost 600 Pounds rising to 900 Pounds on a Ferrari 275 GTB and about 1200 Pounds on an Aston Martin DB4. Doing the armrests and headrests as well would add 150 Pounds. All seats in a Jaguar Mk 2 could be re-covered for about 1500 pounds whilst redoing the trim on one door with a new specially made trim pad with matching vinyl would cost 250 pounds" Ok, it's been 5 years... From cak Wed Feb 19 03:23:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id DAA06957; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 03:23:13 -0800 From: mikeplechaty@juno.com Received: (from mikeplechaty@juno.com) by x4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id GMH02872; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 06:34:19 EST To: 104375.2245@compuserve.com Cc: ferrari-vintage Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 03:07:11 PST Subject: Re: 330 America article and miscellany Message-ID: <19970219.032924.9855.0.MikePlechaty@juno.com> References: <199702190042_MC2-116A-DD31@compuserve.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-7,9-12,14,16-18,22-24 On Wed, 19 Feb 1997 00:41:53 -0500 David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> writes: >the recently retireved Cavallino article on the 330 America will get >copied and sent to each this week. Dave, Is it too late to get you to send me a copy? I missed the original thread on this, I guess. If so, I'll e-mail you my address. Thanks. >the folks at Hudson Valley Interiors. Nice, that is, right up to the >point where they quoted me about seven thousand dollars -- in American >money --for reupholstering two bucket seats, two door panels and the assorted >flat kick/trim panels. I struggled mightily just to keep my composure and >walk out of their tent upright. I have a brochure out in the garage from an outfit that was offering interior kits in the appropriate materials...seats, door panels & console & (I think) floor would cost about $7000, as I recall., for our GTE. I haven't sent a check just yet.... Mike Plechaty From cak Wed Feb 19 09:30:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01518; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:30:31 -0800 Received: from 207.213.5.84 (du84-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.84]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id JAA29471 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:41:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <330ADEFC.4F9@net-quest.com> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:07:44 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari-Vintage List Subject: Moo Cow interiors. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi List, I too need to re-do the interior of a GTE and have got one quote so far. Jon Pollock restorations in Reseda CA, where I got the car, do this kind of work primarily on Jags. He was thinking about 3-4K for the complete job in black connally (is this the spelling). I saw his Lambo Muria that his guy did, and I must say it was quite a good job. The thing I liked about the leather guy's work is that he was hip to the style of "how it was done" at the factory. For this money I will get, Door panels center console seats - front,rear rear deck rear side panels dash including new foam dyed headliner new wood panels in drivers door - rear sides and back deck. dyed rear center handrest New carpet was a separate deal, whole car including trunk was about a grand. That's about it. As you can tell it's most of the car which needs doing. A friend of mine has a Aston DB-4, and had the interiour done locally, Los-Angeles area, and it's stunning. It was done about 4 years ago and at that time was only about 2K. I'll be taking the car to this place for a quote when I get to that point of the quest. that's my knowledge on the subject so far. From cak Wed Feb 19 09:40:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01579; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:40:16 -0800 Received: from 207.213.5.84 (du84-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.84]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id JAA29719 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:51:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <330AE147.4BD9@net-quest.com> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:17:32 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari-Vintage List Subject: Paint Jobs. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi list, Just want to push up the traffic a bit with another question. My GTE was originally a dark red, I can tell this for sure as when it was sprayed resale-red the idiot's left the chrome on and poorly masked it off. I'm kind of partial to black cars. SOOO, All comments aside about how a bad body job on a black car looks awfull, what is the feeling/opinion about returning these car's to original amongst all of you. I ask because I probably would be more interested in a restored car which was it's original colour verses a re-paint, but cause it's my car I feel kinda like it would be cool in black. Last comment, in your reply's tell me if you have ever seen a black GTE, and how does it look over the dark red. I have only seen a black lusso, and boy, it was fine. Chris, it looks like when the oportunity came up you re-painted your car original colour, why. Regards, Andrew. From cak Wed Feb 19 11:35:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA02211; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:35:45 -0800 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id VAA172246 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:46:59 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id VAA28063 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:46:58 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199702191946.VAA28063@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: Paint Jobs. To: ferrari-vintage Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 21:46:58 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > All comments aside about how a bad body job on a black car looks awfull, > what is the feeling/opinion about returning these car's to original > amongst all of you. > > I ask because I probably would be more interested in a restored car > which was it's original colour verses a re-paint, but cause it's my > car I feel kinda like it would be cool in black. What doesn't feel right to me is that when these cars were new, 90% of them were sprayed in discreet, often dark colours, different shades of blues, greys and black. Today 2 out of three cars seem to be painted red. Fine, if you like red - but other colours give very different feelings to these beautiful designs... Our car was dark grey (celeste metallizato 106-A-16) and my father-in-law almost killed himself several times with this invisible-in-bad-weather- "stealth fighter" and so it was resprayed in silver (argento autevil 106-E-1) at the Ferrari factory. When the restoration time comes around we are without a doubt going to restore the car in its original colour. It is the most beautiful grey there ever was and it looks great with the bright red leather - the silver looks very nice too I must admit. I made the final desicion when my wife found a fashion article that started with words "Imagine a dull grey Ferrari... - You can't because that's not the way Ferraris are..." That's just the way I've wanted my Ferrari since. > Last comment, in your reply's tell me if you have ever seen a black > GTE, and how does it look over the dark red. I have only seen a black > lusso, and boy, it was fine. I have a picture of a Swiss GTE (Ado Vallaster, s/n 3865(?)) and it looks just gorgeous. Lehbrink-book shows another stunning black car (3989?). You can find a dark (metallic?) red one on http://www.krenet.it/oldcar/ ferrari.html If you like black, go for black. By the way, did that DuPont GTE have a chassis number? Did anyone download the picture so he could mail it to me... - I tried to pick it up but it wasn't there anymore. One additional remark on Connolly leather: Remember that there are two different leather types: genuine Luxan Vaumol used in the sixties and the softer and thinner Autolux introduced in the 1970s - The modern stuff is easier (=cheaper) to sew to fit, but will never feel right in an older car. Does anyone have the Connolly Luxan Vaumol leather codes at hand? I have tha paint codes myself but have never seen the Connolly codes... Ps. Send me your mailing address, Andrew! you seem to take your GTE seriously so I might as well send you a copy of the Finnish Road Test from 1961 with a translation. I've sent it to all other GTE-owners attending this list - so why the heck not for you too... From cak Wed Feb 19 13:47:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02934; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:47:41 -0800 Received: by smtp-relay-2.Adobe.COM (8.7.5) with ESMTP id NAA06505; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:57:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by inner-relay-1.Adobe.COM (8.7.5) with ESMTP id NAA05716; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:55:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-333.corp.Adobe.COM (8.7.5) with SMTP id NAA08575; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:54:44 -0800 (PST) Sender: jey@Adobe.COM Message-ID: <330B76A4.167EB0E7@adobe.com> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:54:44 -0800 From: Jeff Young Organization: Adobe Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: abrent@net-quest.com CC: Ferrari-Vintage List Subject: Re: Paint Jobs. References: <330AE147.4BD9@net-quest.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew, et al -- Personally, I don't have a problem changing the color of a car to another which was an original color. Problem is that it needs to be done right, which includes the engine compartment, which involves a LOT of work. I think it looks really shabby to just paint the outside of the car. I feel differently on interiors. My seats have started to rip in a few places, but I'm going to re-inforce them on the back of the leather. A lot of the "old" feel of the car comes from the worn leather: new leather (unlike a new paint job) just doesn't look or feel right. -- Jeff. From cak Wed Feb 19 17:49:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA04324; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 17:49:10 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (dd45-253.compuserve.com [199.174.177.253]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA07733; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 18:00:10 -0800 Message-Id: <199702200200.SAA07733@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: , "Ferrari-Vintage List" Subject: Re: Paint Jobs. Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 19:02:13 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew Personal opinion...the GTE, 330 2+2, C4 all look better in dark colors than red. (Sorry, Len! ... MHO) Harold has a black 330 2+2 that's gorgeous and Ferrari of Houston is restoring a 30 2+2 in a very dark blue. I also like the the light metallic colors ... silver and blue. Regards, Bryan I hooked up my accelerator pedal in my car to my brake lights. I hit the gas, people behind me stop, and I'm gone. Steven Wright. ---------- > From: Andrew Brent > To: Ferrari-Vintage List > Subject: Paint Jobs. > Date: Wednesday, February 19, 1997 5:17 AM > > Hi list, > > Just want to push up the traffic a bit with another question. > > My GTE was originally a dark red, I can tell this for sure as when it > was sprayed resale-red the idiot's left the chrome on and poorly masked > it off. > I'm kind of partial to black cars. > > SOOO, > > All comments aside about how a bad body job on a black car looks awfull, > what is the feeling/opinion about returning these car's to original > amongst all of you. > > I ask because I probably would be more interested in a restored car > which was it's original colour verses a re-paint, but cause it's my > car I feel kinda like it would be cool in black. > > Last comment, in your reply's tell me if you have ever seen a black > GTE, and how does it look over the dark red. I have only seen a black > lusso, and boy, it was fine. > > > Chris, it looks like when the oportunity came up you re-painted your > car original colour, why. > > Regards, > > Andrew. From cak Wed Feb 19 20:50:40 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA05410; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:50:37 -0800 Received: by hil-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA23536; Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:01:23 -0500 Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 00:01:06 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Colors 'n cows 'n mystery motors To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199702200001_MC2-1179-F876@compuserve.com> Andrew raises an intriguing question about the early Pininfarina designs and their original colors. Kare's comment about two out of three now being rosso chiaro or some shop's interpretation of same ought to be more like 90%. See Kare... you really should come to Monterey or to an FCA National meet some year. My GTE is the original dark blue with lighter blue rugs and cinnamon-colored interior. I saw one just like it (maybe the same one?) when just out of college at a Can-Am race at Mid Ohio, and all those ill-informed thoughts about the GTE being prosaic or even a little homely were gone forever. My SII cab is a couple shades of bright red, but the paint is also badly checked and in need of a repaint. The car was maroon before the red (musta seemed like a good idea at the time) but the original color was listed as smoke gray, and I confirmed that during the stripdown. Found a tiny strip of the original paint under the door striker. The guys who prepped the car for both resprays were more thorough than skilled. I had never thought seriously of re-painting the car its original color until I saw a Cal Spyder at Monterey in '94 and a Series I cab at Ferrari on Rodeo in '95, both in the same smoke gray as my car turned out to be. If any of you other Left Coasters saw either car, I'm sure you remember how they stood out from that sea of red, and yet seemed so completely right. A friend of mine named Ken Gerber who has an SII cab, a Boano low-roof, and a 330 2+2 (not to mention an ASA 1000 and a Cisitalia under tarps) says emphatically that the early PF designs look best in the darker colors since in natural light their upper surfaces catch the light. For the record his flawlessly restored cab is Rosso Rubino (the dark or ruby red); the Boano is a deep maroon, and the 330 is black. They all look great. Regarding the astronomical prices being quoted to do smallish Ferrari interiors, I've got to believe that the Jag/Healey/'Murrican classic guys aren't paying these kinds of prices for their interior work. I've quit telling people whenever possible that I'm asking for a price for something to do with a F E R R A R I since I'm convinced it doubles the asking price. I just tell 'em it's for/from/about "an old sports car" and let it go at that. Am happy to add Andrew and Mike to the list of recipients for the 330 America piece from Cavallino (Francois Sicard did the restoration and painted it black, by the bye). Mike: I'll need your mailing address. And Bob, to clear up any confusion about the cab's motor, it's just the block that's Testarossa-spec. It appears to have been re-stamped with the car's correct chassis number at the factory (Kare can tell a hair-raising story about what used to go on there in the late Sixties); but everything else looks box-stock. Just another part of the romance, I guess. Regards to all, Dave Booth From cak Wed Feb 19 20:47:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA05380; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 20:47:26 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout17.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id XAA22906; Wed, 19 Feb 1997 23:58:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 23:58:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970219235808_1147734041@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: 104375.2245@compuserve.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 330 America article and miscellany Dave, I know that getting good leather work done is not cheap, but I have a place in town that does restoration work on American cars like Model A's, Packards and such. They do great work, charge fairly and deliver on time. I would guess the best way to get out cheaper would be to decide if your car had to be dead-nuts original or if you could live with a pretty close copy. If you can, then you might try places like the above where they aren't Ferrari specialists (using the F-word doubles the price), but do a good job. Harold Pace From cak Mon Feb 24 21:12:10 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA05233; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:12:08 -0800 Received: by hil-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA10288; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:22:51 -0500 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 00:22:28 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Where'd everybody go? To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199702250022_MC2-11B3-7167@compuserve.com> Hey guys: I got my computer back on line last night after being down for almost a week, and was surprised to find no Vintage Ferrari Group traffic in that entire time. Is there a problem at my end I don't know about or is everyone bored already? Dave Booth From cak Tue Feb 25 16:36:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA04597; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:36:00 -0800 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:36:00 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199702260036.QAA04597@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Why butcher two? Hmm. This makes me think of Preston Henn's "250 GTO Cab" - I saw it at Monterey in '94. I'm pretty certain it started as a GTE, hopefully a rollover, though I never talked to him about it. Does anyone know? It looked like good fun, but I agree, not worth butchering a car for. From cak Tue Feb 25 19:21:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA06468; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:21:11 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd02-139.compuserve.com [199.174.213.139]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA10801; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:32:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199702260332.TAA10801@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "David Booth" <104375.2245@compuserve.com>, "vintage Ferrari list" Subject: Re: Where'd everybody go? Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 18:57:24 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We be here ... just quiet! Regards, Bryan I hooked up my accelerator pedal in my car to my brake lights. I hit the gas, people behind me stop, and I'm gone. Steven Wright. > Is there a problem at my end I don't know about or is everyone bored > already? > > Dave Booth From cak Tue Feb 25 21:05:39 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA06977; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 21:05:24 -0800 Received: by dub-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA10536; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:14:33 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 00:14:21 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Whew! To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199702260014_MC2-11BB-88AB@compuserve.com> To the guys who called out from the dark to reassure me that you're all still there -- thanks. I know my way around the inside of a V-12 a lot better than the inside of a PC and you never know what kind of gremlins can leap into when the cover's off (the PC, that is). I'll just shaddup for a while and let some of the other folks on the list get their oar in the water (c'mon Len, I know you've got a lot to say). Best, Dave Booth From cak Wed Feb 26 11:32:50 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA05387; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:32:35 -0800 Received: by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id OAA01110; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 14:42:48 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 14:41:06 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: 330 America article & motor goo To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199702261442_MC2-11C7-18B9@compuserve.com> Hi all: The office copier was not on its best behavior last week, so I decided a tuneup was in order before duplicating the 330 America article from Cavallino for Kare, Bob, Mike and Harold (still need your snail mail address, Mike). And now that I've cleaned away the toner overspray from the surrounding furniture (seems that sloppy mechanics are found other places than car garages), I'm ready to go. Any other requests for it? I guess I should have been clearer about my comment regarding the use of RTV sealant in my motor -- or any motor, for that matter. The stuff definitely has its uses. I just don't think it's a substitute for buying new paper/cork/fiber gaskets, cleaning off the old ones, or making sure that the sealing surfaces are flat. Besides, seeing a piece of mechanical scuplture like a Ferrari 12 with that goop oozing from every joint is like seeing Cindy Crawford with something hanging out of her nose. Just ruins the effect. Regards, Dave Booth From cak Wed Feb 26 11:29:57 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA05356; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:29:57 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:29:57 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199702261929.LAA05356@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 air conditioning We have factory air in our 330. Indeed, many of the components are York; certainly the compressor and dryer. I suspect that the condensor is as well, though I've not seen any identifying marks on it. I don't know abou the underdash unit. Ours worked pretty well - in fact, it was important not to use it too heavily in traffic lest it ice up. Unfortunately a crack has developed in the top of the compressor and needs to be welded up. The mounting of the condensor to the radiator is a bit mickey mouse; they brazed on some brackets to the top tank and a couple of nuts to the bottom tank, and the condensor is mounted to them with some strap steel brackets. A nuisance to work on, and the bottom nuts have a tendency to separate from the tank. WE'll probably make up some other arrangement eventually. What would you like to know? I suspect that the hardest piece to come up with is the dash section, and perhaps the pulley for the crankshaft. From cak Wed Feb 26 11:36:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA05425; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:36:39 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:36:39 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199702261936.LAA05425@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: brippey@ix.netcom.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 air conditioning Bruce, your arrangement sounds like a homebrew setup. On our car, the compressor sits neatly on the passenger side of the timing case, the condensor in front of the radiator, the dryer is mounted just in front of the passenger side shock tower access panel. The aeroquip lines run along the passenger fender, inside the engine compartment. The underdash unit blows through the stock vents in the center of the dash (three on our car - a late Series II). The temp control and fan control are knobs that are in the center of the vents. When the fan is on, one of the engine fans gets switched on (this was botched during the recent reassembly - another gremlin to hunt). From cak Wed Feb 26 11:51:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA05568; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:51:06 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:51:06 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199702261951.LAA05568@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: 104375.2245@compuserve.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 330 America article and miscellany I've had similar experiences here with upholstery - the driver's seat in our 330 badly needs to be disassembled and rebuilt with new foam. The leather is a bit worn, but I'm happy to leave it that way, perhaps with a bit of touchup from Connely dye. It is, after all, an old driver. But the foam is crumbling and that's causing the leather to be unsupported and will eventually lead to failure. Mentioning that it's for a Ferrari seems to double the estimate. Sigh. I have a lead on a local place that the Lotus club swears by. They do good work at a decent price, but are somewhat erratic on delivery. Mostly they're slow. I'm likely to try them next; I have a couple of other seats that could use reskinning, and I'll likely start there. I think the right thing to do is find a shop that does work for boats or rods and check out their work. If you like what you see, then tell them what you're up to. From cak Wed Feb 26 11:59:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA05652; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:59:10 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:59:10 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199702261959.LAA05652@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: abrent@net-quest.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Paint Jobs. Chris, it looks like when the oportunity came up you re-painted your car original colour, why. Well ... the short answer is that we like it. It's a gorgeous color and really works on the car. With the black leather and dark blue carpets, it's quite stunning. Longer answer: I've owned repainted cars, and seen lots of others. They're never right, unless they're painted with everything removed. Someone mentioned that the engine compartment is usually the wrong color - that's the most obvious, and it really detracts. But there are so many other little places where the original paint shows up, and it's a nuisance to get them all. A slightly different answer: we really feel like caretakers of this car, not "owners". We're the second owner of an extremely original car. It started out azzurro metallica. It should stay that way. If we didn't like the color, we wouldn't have bought it. (Now, if I was taking a car to nuts and bolts and bare metal and spraying it before assembly, I might say something different. I would be tempted to change colors in some cases - there were some *terribly* unfortunate choices on some cars in times past. But we weren't in that situation.) From cak Wed Feb 26 14:40:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA06829; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 14:40:38 -0800 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id AAA71654 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:51:57 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id AAA23871 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:51:56 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199702262251.AAA23871@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: Another subscriber... To: ferrari-vintage Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 00:51:56 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A Swiss chap happened to contact me because of some old posting of mine to the majordomo-list... As he seems to be very serious with his passion for the vintage Ferraris and was a bit frustrated after subscribing to the majordomo-list only discussing the 308's I suggested he might be welcome to be a member of this list. He's attending university in Switzerland and doesn't own a Ferrari, at least not yet, but knows a lot of these machines and their history. My opinion: definitely one of us, but Chris suggested that I should ask the list - so let's hear your opinions. Kare. From cak Wed Feb 26 16:44:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA07457; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:44:18 -0800 Received: by smtp-relay-1.Adobe.COM (8.7.5) with ESMTP id QAA00419; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:53:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by inner-relay-1.Adobe.COM (8.7.5) with ESMTP id QAA12994; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:54:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-333.corp.Adobe.COM (8.7.5) with SMTP id QAA01562; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:54:30 -0800 (PST) Sender: jey@Adobe.COM Message-ID: <3314DB45.2F1CF0FB@adobe.com> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:54:29 -0800 From: Jeff Young Organization: Adobe Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Kantarjiev CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 air conditioning References: <199702261936.LAA05425@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a confession that might help Chris out... After 3 years of having the 330 overheat in heavy traffic, I finally had the bright idea of checking to see if the fans came on. Well, they didn't. Hours later I had it traced to the relay that controls turning on the other fan when the AC is on, which was wired up backwards (the relay itself was fine). No more overheating. To lend more evidence to the homebrew theory for Bruce's car, my AC setup is pretty much like Chris', except black rubber instead of aeroquip. It's a GTC, but I think it's within 100 chassis #'s or so of Chris' car. -- Jeff. Chris Kantarjiev wrote: > > Bruce, your arrangement sounds like a homebrew setup. On our car, the > compressor sits neatly on the passenger side of the timing case, the > condensor in front of the radiator, the dryer is mounted just in front > of the passenger side shock tower access panel. The aeroquip lines > run along the passenger fender, inside the engine compartment. > > The underdash unit blows through the stock vents in the center of the > dash (three on our car - a late Series II). The temp control and fan > control are knobs that are in the center of the vents. When the fan > is on, one of the engine fans gets switched on (this was botched > during the recent reassembly - another gremlin to hunt). From cak Wed Feb 26 17:25:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA07640; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 17:25:41 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:36:49 -0500 (EST) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <970226203649.66cfe@idx.com> Subject: FWD: Another subscriber... >A Swiss chap happened to contact me because of some old posting of >mine to the majordomo-list... >My opinion: definitely one of us, but Chris suggested that I should >ask the list - so let's hear your opinions. >Kare. I know a number of people who don't own Ferraris that know a great deal about the cars and their history. Ownership should not be a requirement, and Kare's recommendation is good enough for me. Bob From cak Wed Feb 26 17:44:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA07726; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 17:44:19 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 20:55:25 -0500 (EST) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <970226205525.5b551@idx.com> Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 air conditioning Well guys, I guess I have been asleep at the switch. I just realized that the AC on several cars is being discussed. Last week I FAXed the AC pages from the 1965 Spare Parts Catalogue (330 2+2) to Bryan. If anyone else wants copies, send me you FAX numbers. I'm not sure how much the system changed from '65 to the end of the 330 GT 2+2 run, or how it compares with that in the GTC. Chris can probably comment on how the system in the catalog compares with that in his series II, since it is he who graciously sent me the catalog a couple of years ago. Bob From cak Wed Feb 26 19:38:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA08241; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:38:16 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (dd51-058.compuserve.com [199.174.183.58]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA15065; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:49:33 -0800 Message-Id: <199702270349.TAA15065@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Kare M A Pietil{" , Subject: Re: Another subscriber... Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:43:02 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sounds fine to me. Diversity is always good. Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: Kare M A Pietil{ > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: Another subscriber... > Date: Wednesday, February 26, 1997 4:51 PM > > A Swiss chap happened to contact me because of some old posting of > mine to the majordomo-list... > > As he seems to be very serious with his passion for the vintage > Ferraris and was a bit frustrated after subscribing to the > majordomo-list only discussing the 308's I suggested he might > be welcome to be a member of this list. > > He's attending university in Switzerland and doesn't own a Ferrari, > at least not yet, but knows a lot of these machines and their > history. > > My opinion: definitely one of us, but Chris suggested that I should > ask the list - so let's hear your opinions. > > Kare. From cak Wed Feb 26 19:38:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA08238; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:38:02 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (dd51-058.compuserve.com [199.174.183.58]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA14930; Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:49:22 -0800 Message-Id: <199702270349.TAA14930@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Chris Kantarjiev" , Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 air conditioning Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:35:51 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Weeks faxed me the pages from the manual that show the part numbers and arrangements for adding the AC. I'll probably wait until I have a car before I bug people too much more!! RE: a car. I'm going to Kansas City to look at a 2+2. They're supposed to tell me the S/N tomorrow, but I know that it's Series 2, metallic silver with red interior. A bare metal restoration was done about 4k miles ago (and 3 years). By any chance, has anyone seen this car? I know the S/N will help, once I get it. I spoke to an independent mechanic who worked over the Webers after the restoration. He says the car is in good shape and he saw no evidence of rust. Are there any secret nooks and crannies that I should be especially watchful for, as far as corrosion? Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: Chris Kantarjiev > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 air conditioning > Date: Wednesday, February 26, 1997 1:29 PM > > We have factory air in our 330. Indeed, many of the components are York; > certainly the compressor and dryer. I suspect that the condensor is > as well, though I've not seen any identifying marks on it. I don't > know abou the underdash unit. > > Ours worked pretty well - in fact, it was important not to use it > too heavily in traffic lest it ice up. Unfortunately a crack has > developed in the top of the compressor and needs to be welded up. > > The mounting of the condensor to the radiator is a bit mickey mouse; > they brazed on some brackets to the top tank and a couple of nuts to > the bottom tank, and the condensor is mounted to them with some strap > steel brackets. A nuisance to work on, and the bottom nuts have > a tendency to separate from the tank. WE'll probably make up > some other arrangement eventually. > > What would you like to know? I suspect that the hardest piece to > come up with is the dash section, and perhaps the pulley for the > crankshaft. From cak Thu Feb 27 05:34:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA00344; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 05:34:50 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 8:45:54 -0500 (EST) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <970227084554.71564@idx.com> Subject: FWD: Re: 330 GT 2+2 air conditioning Bryan, The area between the front wheel well and the lower leading door edge is very prone to rust. Many times the severity of the problem is masked by all of the lead that is used to make everything "fit". The best way to check this area is to remove the inner wheel well, which is held in place by 3 or 4 screws. Also check the rockers and the lower door edges and frames. Bob *************** RE: a car. I'm going to Kansas City to look at a 2+2. They're supposed to tell me the S/N tomorrow, but I know that it's Series 2, metallic silver with red interior. A bare metal restoration was done about 4k miles ago (and 3 years). By any chance, has anyone seen this car? I know the S/N will help, once I get it. I spoke to an independent mechanic who worked over the Webers after the restoration. He says the car is in good shape and he saw no evidence of rust. Are there any secret nooks and crannies that I should be especially watchful for, as far as corrosion? Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: Chris Kantarjiev > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 air conditioning > Date: Wednesday, February 26, 1997 1:29 PM > > We have factory air in our 330. Indeed, many of the components are York; > certainly the compressor and dryer. I suspect that the condensor is > as well, though I've not seen any identifying marks on it. I don't > know abou the underdash unit. > > Ours worked pretty well - in fact, it was important not to use it > too heavily in traffic lest it ice up. Unfortunately a crack has > developed in the top of the compressor and needs to be welded up. > > The mounting of the condensor to the radiator is a bit mickey mouse; > they brazed on some brackets to the top tank and a couple of nuts to > the bottom tank, and the condensor is mounted to them with some strap > steel brackets. A nuisance to work on, and the bottom nuts have > a tendency to separate from the tank. WE'll probably make up > some other arrangement eventually. > > What would you like to know? I suspect that the hardest piece to > come up with is the dash section, and perhaps the pulley for the > crankshaft. From cak Thu Feb 27 09:34:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01782; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:34:44 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA04474; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:45:05 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199702271745.LAA04474@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> Received: from bal-md3-16.ix.netcom.com(199.183.205.112) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma004453; Thu Feb 27 11:44:29 1997 Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 air conditioning Date: Thu, 27 Feb 97 12:45:36 -0500 From: Bruce Rippey To: "Bryan Cashion" , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > Are there any secret nooks and crannies >that I should be especially watchful for, as far as corrosion? > >Regards, >Bryan Bryan- When I acquired my 2+2 in 1974 I knew that it needed rust repairs in and around the doors, but the extent of corrosion did not become apparent until the job was begun. The upshot was complete remanufacture of both doors, some bodywork in front of the doors in the fender area, and complete replacement of the flooring (2 layers) and rocker panels in the passenger compartment. In other words, lift floormats and crawl under the car for a good look. -Bruce Bruce Rippey Glen Arm, MD brippey@ix.netcom.com From cak Thu Feb 27 09:39:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01818; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:39:45 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout08.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id MAA08408; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 12:50:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 12:50:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970227125038_1846637474@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: cak, brippey@ix.netcom.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 air conditioning My air conditioning (late Series II) sounds just like Chris's car. It has the aeroquip lines, although I have seen them with plain lines, too. Harold From cak Thu Feb 27 09:41:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01837; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:41:32 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:41:32 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199702271741.JAA01837@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 air conditioning Thanks Bob, for reminding me that I could be working from documentation rather than memory. I looked on my shelf and found the 2+2 parts manual, the GTC parts manual, and the installation instructions (in Italian, but with translation). >From the parts books, I'd say that our car is about halfway between the two. 9161 has the later two-mount engine, which is shared in common with the GTC, although there are some slight details that vary. But to the point of this discussion, we have the later water pump and radiator hookup, as well as the later oil filter and fill assembly. We also have power steering, which complicates the alternator placement and doesn't seem to be documented anywhere - some day I'll find the parts manual for a 365 2+2, which is supposed to have the same arrangement as ours. The compressor mounting bracket on our car looks more like the one shown for the 2+2, but otherwise the components seem to be those shown for the GTC - then again, I suspect that those *are* all the same. The instructions installations say that they apply to serial numbers 8279 - 8591, and are almost certainly for the earlier engine (since they talk about relocating the PB50 filter to the left hand body panel in the engine compartment and call out a different water pump cover, neither of which is appropriate to our car - we have two 2804-1 filters). (Hmm, I wonder if 8591 is the engine change point?) All that said, the parts list is very interesting. The entire system is put together by Borletti. The compressor is a York DA 209. The condensor manufacturer isn't clear, might be IMPERIAL, but the part number given is 209/32305. The thermostat is made by RANCO and the expnasion valve by FLICA. When I said that the hoses were Aeroquip, I meant it - but they're not stainless covered, just fabric covered. The important thing about this is that they use threaded JIC fittings, rather than the O ring style more common these days. Jeff, I think our fan problem is at the motors proper, rather than the relay - the relay probably wasn't touched. I'm pretty sure that the fans used to work as expected, even though they weren't really adequate to keep the car cool in traffic. We did a bunch of things to try to fix the cooling system (both radiator caps were wrong, for example) but never really got a chance to test the changes. Both motors were out during the repair, and I'm suspicious that they got wired wrong - I know that the one on the left side has three wires, and I'll just bet they got it wrong. I *think* that it will take removing the grille to check the wiring - a job I really don't enjoy. But while I'm in there, I'll probably take the opportunity to make up some simple fan shrouds to help make sure the air is going *through* the radiator instead of around it. From cak Thu Feb 27 09:46:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01895; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:46:51 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:46:51 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199702271746.JAA01895@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 air conditioning Oh ... I realized that neither Jeff nor I detailed how the fans are meant to work! The later cars don't have the Peugeot electromechanical clutch fan driven from the engine front, but one or two Lucas motors driving cast aluminum fans, located behind the grill and in front of the radiator. These are controlled by a thermostatic switch that is in the bottom tank of the radiator. (I say one or two because the a/c parts list seems to include a second fan motor - but I don't know for certain if this is additional or a heavier duty replacement.) The a/c installation adds a relay such that the passenger side fan is switched on whenever the a/c is turned on. This is presumably to keep the compressor cooled... From cak Thu Feb 27 11:56:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA02774; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:56:24 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 15:07:28 -0500 (EST) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <970227150728.6a29d@idx.com> Subject: FWD: Re: 330 GT 2+2 air conditioning Our Series I has the Peugeot fan that Chris mentioned, as well as one Lucas fan in front of the radiator. Both are controlled by a thermostatic switch in the bottom of the radiator. There is no indication that our car ever had AC. Bob ******************** Oh ... I realized that neither Jeff nor I detailed how the fans are meant to work! The later cars don't have the Peugeot electromechanical clutch fan driven from the engine front, but one or two Lucas motors driving cast aluminum fans, located behind the grill and in front of the radiator. These are controlled by a thermostatic switch that is in the bottom tank of the radiator. (I say one or two because the a/c parts list seems to include a second fan motor - but I don't know for certain if this is additional or a heavier duty replacement.) The a/c installation adds a relay such that the passenger side fan is switched on whenever the a/c is turned on. This is presumably to keep the compressor cooled... From cak Thu Feb 27 16:19:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA04569; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 16:19:36 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad37-223.compuserve.com [199.174.140.223]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA11589 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 16:29:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199702280029.QAA11589@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: 330 2+2 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:24:31 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI. The car I'm looking at is 7775...which I figure is a late 65 early 66 Series 2. Thanks to all for your tips on corrosion-prone areas. Regards, Bryan From cak Thu Feb 27 20:42:10 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA05856; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 20:42:08 -0800 Received: by arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA12343; Thu, 27 Feb 1997 23:53:01 -0500 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 23:52:42 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Body rot and what to do about it To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199702272352_MC2-11D9-78A0@compuserve.com> Hey Bruce: I read your description of the body rot you found in your 330 with a kind of sickening recognition. My GTE has a similar affliction, and so does my cab, although to a lesser extent. And I'll just bet that this is a very common condition, particularly for cars that have spent time in the rainier climes. I've always been petrified of what the bodyshop man will say/do/charge when the time comes to attend to this problem. The head honcho at a local restoration shop has looked at both cars without seeming daunted, but I could have sworn I saw little images of bags with dollar signs dancing in front of his eyes. Since "the time" is pretty nearly upon me, what sage advice can you recount from your experiences? Regards, Dave Booth From cak Fri Feb 28 06:16:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00505; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 06:16:28 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 9:27:32 -0500 (EST) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <970228092732.78d0f@idx.com> Subject: RE: Body rot and what to do about it We just went through the same thing, that Bruce discussed, with our GTE. Basically we made a cuts into the "gill" opening and removed the panel all the way down to the rocker. In that cavity, the lower door pillars were rebuilt as were other various bits and pieces that were rotted out. We also replaced a sections in the rockers and rebuilt the lower front corners of the doors. The previous owner had done the floors, so at this point the car is rust free. The thing that is deceptive is that our car only had a small bubble on the lower corner of the right door. All the lead that they used in that area of the car hid a lot of sins. I would estimate that we have 80 - 100 hours into fixing the rust problems on our GTE and they were really minor compared to some of the other stuff that I've seen in that shop. You guys should see some of the old Cameros and such that have been driven through many VT winters, that someone now wants to restore. Talk about rust -- the only thing holding many of these old hulks together is bondo. Bob From cak Fri Feb 28 12:47:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA02385; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:47:54 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA15598; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 14:58:38 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199702282058.OAA15598@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> Received: from bal-md8-20.ix.netcom.com(206.214.133.84) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma015570; Fri Feb 28 14:58:16 1997 Subject: Re: Body rot and what to do about it Date: Fri, 28 Feb 97 15:59:26 -0500 From: Bruce Rippey To: "David Booth" <104375.2245@compuserve.com>, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi, Dave - Best advice I can offer is to talk with as many people as possible who have had body restoration work done for recommendations (or non-recommendations). Try to get an idea of delivery promises, cost estimate promises, etc. And quality, of course. I wouldn't know about general costing practices, if such things exist. I found a fellow who was a wizard at metalwork, a Greek who brought his trade here from the Old Country. He charged by the hour, but he worked very fast; once started, he finished in less than three months, working maybe 80-90% of the time on my car. This did NOT include painting, which was not his specialty or main interest. I have friends who have kissed their car goodby for a year and more during restoration. In most cases the result was worth the wait, but be sure that the restorer has a clear idea of your expectations. A 100-point restoration can really multiply the dollars over, say, a 90-pointer, which may be perfectly adequate for use as a driver. Good luck - keep the group informed of your progress! -Bruce From cak Fri Feb 28 13:03:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02629; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:03:02 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:03:02 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199702282103.NAA02629@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: 104375.2245@compuserve.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Body rot and what to do about it The problem, of course, is those nice fender splash guards that were so painstakingly made by some Italian craftsman more than 30 years ago. They keep the stones out, but they hold the moisture in. 9161 had some surface rust there, too. We ground it down and undercoated the hell out of it. From cak Fri Feb 28 15:14:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA03329; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 15:14:10 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad08-095.compuserve.com [199.174.135.95]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA15279; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 15:25:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199702282325.PAA15279@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "David Booth" <104375.2245@compuserve.com>, "vintage Ferrari list" Subject: Re: Body rot and what to do about it Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 17:08:08 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A related question is 'what advice does the list have on how to PREVENT the rot if you have a body that's in good shape?' Regards, Bryan I hooked up my accelerator pedal in my car to my brake lights. I hit the gas, people behind me stop, and I'm gone. Steven Wright. ---------- > From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> > To: vintage Ferrari list > Subject: Body rot and what to do about it > Date: Thursday, February 27, 1997 10:52 PM > > Hey Bruce: > > > Since "the time" is pretty nearly upon me, what sage advice can you recount > from your experiences? > > Regards, > Dave Booth From cak Fri Feb 28 17:14:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA03972; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 17:14:59 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 17:14:59 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199703010114.RAA03972@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: cashion@sprynet.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Body rot and what to do about it I suspect that undercoating liberally is the right answer. I didn't really see that area before they started stripping, but I'll just bet that it was bare metal or close to it. Construction techniques in the 60s usually ended up leaving the undercoating and such until after assembly, so parts that were covered up were left unprotected. That's certainly true of most of the British cars of that era that I've seen - great glaring gobs or bare metal, not even painted, at seams and behind access panels. From cak Fri Feb 28 23:38:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id XAA05862; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 23:38:38 -0800 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id JAA116008 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 09:50:01 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id JAA15734 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 09:50:00 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199703010750.JAA15734@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: Finding the chassis number in a GTE... To: ferrari-vintage Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 09:50:00 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As we seem to have a few longtime GTE owners attending this list I must ask; Where should I look for the chassis number in an GTE besides the well documented places: The plate in the firewall, the frame at the steering box, left skirt of the engine block and timing case. Have you seen the number in other places when going through your cars? Kare From cak Sat Mar 1 12:16:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA02173; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 12:16:45 -0800 Received: from 204.140.219.33 (dial004w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.33]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id MAA18450 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 12:28:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <331821C0.4A15@net-quest.com> Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 12:32:22 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: Monterey 97 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi dudes, I have decided that I'll be coming to Monterey this year to check out other cars for idea's, meet some of you, take photo's etc, etc.. Currently, the friend of mine with the Aston's will be staying at Casa Munres Garden Hotel, 700 Munras Ave Monterey CA. and I will probably stay there as well. He's got no idea about the Ferrari activities, obviously, so I'm looking for some help. I've heard that Len gets some of you together on a particular night in Carmel, dates, also what about the Concours Italiano, dates, where to get tickets etc. And the Pebble Beach concours thing, where to get tickets, etc. I can't say I'll go to the races, but information would be helpful. Last, who else will be going, where will you stay, do you drink beer. Bring photo's of your car if you don't bring it. Later, Andrew. From cak Sat Mar 1 15:42:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA03080; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 15:42:46 -0800 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id BAA36096 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 01:54:10 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id BAA20774 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 01:54:09 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199703012354.BAA20774@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: Re: Body rot and what to do about it To: ferrari-vintage Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 01:54:09 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > A related question is 'what advice does the list have on how to PREVENT the > rot if you have a body that's in good shape?' In short - Keep the car clean and dry. Avoid salt or wash it away regularly from the underside of your car if you live in areas where they spread that disgusting stuff on the roads. Use rust-protector to keep the underside of the car healthy - if you're not a concours type and want to use your car even if it rains. In old days some people painted the underside of the car with used engine-oil or some kind of grease. That should never be done as the oil+water develops into acid... The same phenomenon may destroy the brass bearings in the engine if a car hybernates for years - or decades. Places collecting dirt rust like hell, check the wheel arches and underside of the car below fire wall. If you find pockets full of mud, you will find rot soon. Don't pay attention to the paintwork when looking for structural body rot. A car can look like it left the factory this morning - even if it hasn't been resprayed - and the floorpan is largely missing... From cak Sat Mar 1 19:31:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA04112; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 19:31:52 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (dd49-228.compuserve.com [199.174.181.228]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA19848 for ; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 19:43:16 -0800 Message-Id: <199703020343.TAA19848@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: 330 GT 2+2 s/n 7775 Date: Sat, 1 Mar 1997 21:38:01 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just returned from looking at this car ... and do I have a lot of questions! The following are general comments on the car, as well as specific questions on which I'm sure this list can enlighten me. I aplogize for taking up bandwidth. You're welcome to just delete my comments and questions if they get too boring! Also, I may send a version of this to the other Ferrari list ... I still value their input,as well. Please delete the other if you are still on both lists. Car is a Series 2, metallic gray/silver with red interior. The interior other than the seats is in very good shape. Original dash, dashboard, and headliner. New carpets. The passenger seat is not too bad, the drivers seat (understandably) is marginal, but useable. Cracks in the leather, but none completely through to the stuffing. It has an Autovox radio ... anyone know if these were a factory radio as opposed to the Beckers? All the rocker switches are on the dash between the seats, i.e. no switches to the left of the steering wheel. All the cars I've seen have the switches to the left. There are only 2 air outlets on the dash, as opposed to the three I'm used to. The rear seat does not have the armrest. I've never seen the inside of a 250 GTE. Is this description similar? What do people know about 330 America interior? The body and paint were in good condition. The car was redone about 4 years ago. The present owner had pictures of the restoration. They took the body to bare metal and cut out the rot on both doors and in front of the doors. However, they apparently only did from the rocker panels up. Crawling uner the car shows a more original condition with corrosion where the floor pan meets the chassis under the drivers side for 2-3 feet. The passenger's side seems good. Thanks to Bob Weeks for the tip on looking here. I didn't get a chance to look behind the front wheels wells, although the restoration pictures indicate that they did some work there. Does anybody have any comments on how extensive the corrosion on the drivers side might be beyond what I can look at? Missing emblems here and there ... no big deal. The car had a rear view mirror mounted on the left fender, not the left door! Original or add-on? I know we had some discussion earlier about fender mirrors on GTEs, which indicated that anything is possible. I should have looked more closely, but I think the mirror had Corsica or something like that engraved in the chrome on top. The restoration also did the drive train back to the rear differential at least. You could see that the rubber donuts on the driveshaft were new and in good condition, so I know they got that far. The Webers and clutch were re-done more recently along with replacement of the original ignition systen with electronic ignition (Crane or Marelli ?). There is a sensor (unconnected) on the left side of the transmission about half between engine and driveshaft. What's this for? The oil temperature guage never moved off the peg, so I wonder if that's what this sensor is for. The mechanic who did the work was originally in Kansas City, but has since moved to El Paso. Sound familiar to anyone? The owner says he has the manual and tool kit somewhere... he remembers it from the restoration, but couldn't dig it out...one more thing to check on. Finally, I seem to remember Chris mentioning that there was a factory option of extended driver seat rails to make more legroom. Does anyone know if this can be easily added to a car? Regards, Bryan I installed a skylight in my apartment.... The people who live above me are furious! -- Steven Wright From cak Sun Mar 2 10:23:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01665; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 10:23:32 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA13475 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 12:34:26 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199703021834.MAA13475@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Received: from bal-md8-14.ix.netcom.com(206.214.133.78) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma013448; Sun Mar 2 12:34:18 1997 Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 s/n 7775 Date: Sun, 2 Mar 97 13:35:33 -0500 From: Bruce Rippey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >There is a sensor >(unconnected) on the left side of the transmission about half between >engine and driveshaft. What's this for? Bryan - I believe it's the reverse lamp switch. If the same forward transmission housing were used for the 5-speed as for the 4-speed-plus-overdrive, I might suggest also the O/D lockout switch, but the hole would most likely be plugged, not filled with a switch. -Bruce From cak Sun Mar 2 10:53:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01798; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 10:53:17 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad70-065.compuserve.com [199.174.198.65]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA20714; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 11:04:37 -0800 Message-Id: <199703021904.LAA20714@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Bruce Rippey" , Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 s/n 7775 Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 12:58:57 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Consensus seems to be that, given this is a five speed, the connection is for the back-up lights, not a sensor. Thanks! This car is not yet a done deal, but if it were, do people have a sense of what it would take to remedy the corrosion on the floor pan? I recognize this is highly dependent upon extent or corrosion, so ball park guesstimates are OK. Regards, Bryan I installed a skylight in my apartment.... The people who live above me are furious! -- Steven Wright From cak Mon Mar 3 08:04:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA01319; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 08:03:59 -0800 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 11:15:10 -0500 (EST) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <970303111510.8461a@idx.com> Subject: FWD: Finding the chassis number in a GTE... Return-Path: Received: from bosphorus.dimebank.com by idx.idx.com with SMTP; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 2:56:00 -0500 (EST) >As we seem to have a few longtime GTE owners attending this list >I must ask; Where should I look for the chassis number in an GTE >besides the well documented places: The plate in the firewall, >the frame at the steering box, left skirt of the engine block >and timing case. >Have you seen the number in other places when going through your >cars? >Kare I haven't found the Ferrari chassis number anywhere else but the Pininfarina job number or its last 3 digits are stamped on most of the body and trim parts. Bob From cak Mon Mar 3 09:01:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01594; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 09:01:07 -0800 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:12:22 -0500 (EST) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <970303121222.7cb4e@idx.com> Subject: RE: 330 GT 2+2 s/n 7775 Bryan, The rear seats of the GTE, the 330 America and the Series I 330 GT 2+2 all have an armrest between the rear seats, I thought that the Series 2 did as well but am not certain. Factory photos of street Ferraris from the 60's rarely (never?) show outside mirrors, which leads me to believe that they were dealer or owner add-ons. I have seen mirrors both on the fenders and the doors, sometimes only on the drivers side sometimes on both. Vintage mirrors in any of these locations should be ok with concours judges. Missing emblems probably aren't a problem but don't let the seller get away with keeping the toolkit ($2500-$5000), manual ($200-$300) or ashtrays ($300- $500). Are all of the original ignition parts with the car, and were the distributors modified so that it would be difficult to return them to original condition? I hate to think what 2 replacement distributors would cost if the ones in the car have been "destroyed"; I've seen people asking several hundred $'s each for vintage Marelli ignition coils but suspect that one could do much better in Alfa or Fiat circles. We have electronic ignition in our 330 and it really improved its driveability. The switch on the transmission is for the backup lights. Someone else suggested that it might be for the OD lockout but that switch is located on the top of the transmission just behind the bellhousing. I don't know if the 5 speed has a plugged hole in that location or not. Bob Weeks From cak Mon Mar 3 09:29:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01730; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 09:29:06 -0800 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:40:22 -0500 (EST) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <970303124022.7056e@idx.com> Subject: Re: Body rot and what to do about it If you can't see it the Italians didn't paint it. When we dismantled the GTE we found that there was no paint on the inside of the roof or inside the rocker panels or inside any cavity that was covered with nonremovable sheet metal. Some attempt had been made to undercoat the cavities fore and aft of the front wheel wells, but ultimately that old tar did more damage than good. Chris suggested that undercoating was a good idea and it is, but before applying it I would recommend removing the old tar first. Especially over seams and in areas where sand and moisture tend to accumulate. It also might be a good idea to prep these areas with a rust inhibitor like POR (?) -- does anyone have experience with this? Bob From cak Mon Mar 3 09:39:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01828; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 09:39:18 -0800 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 09:39:18 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199703031739.JAA01828@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: WEEKS@VTA.dnet.idx.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: 330 GT 2+2 s/n 7775 9161 has a (fixed) armrest between the two rear seats. It's really a 2+2, not a 2+ two or three! Our car was delivered without outside mirrors. The factory order sheet lists them as an option - that is, you could order one (as well as a seat belt for either side, headrests, and a rallye clock - those are the options I can remember at the moment). Most of the cars I've seen have had some variant of the bullet style mirror - there's a particular brand name but I can't remember it at the moment. It's a bit disconcerting to drive down the freeway with neither side mirrors nor seat belts, but you get used to it. I don't expect to add a side mirror, but I have some belts from a 365 GT 2+2 that should fit. We just have to take the time to find the anchor points that I'm assured are already there under the carpeting. From cak Mon Mar 3 09:36:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01814; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 09:36:30 -0800 Received: by INET-05-IMC.itg.microsoft.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC27B7.E91ECEA0@INET-05-IMC.itg.microsoft.com>; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 09:47:30 -0800 Message-ID: From: Jeff Littrell To: "'cak@dimebank.com'" , "'ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com'" Subject: Latest Issues of Sempre Ferrari on the net Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 09:47:17 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 28 TEXT Chris, I finally got the latest two issues of Sempre Ferrari on the net. This concludes your series on buying 9161. As soon as I get the last two pictures back from the printers I'll send them and a whole stack of printed issues back to you so that I bring you up to date. Thanks for the materials. To the others on this list, if you haven't checked out our newsletter, you might want to. We have a couple features that are of specific interest to vintage fans. My favorite is Ed Niles' Oldtimers Corner. The two most recent issues include articles on the Cavallino Classic, a 1996 year in review, the FCA/Alfa track event at Las Vegas Speedway (complete with many color pics of Roger Moore's smashed TR), Ed Niles' regular column (a two-parter on Le Mans 1973), etc. Check it out at: http://www.bhs.com/fca/sw Or, go to the specific issues at: http://www.bhs.com/fca/sw/Jan97/issue.htm and http://www.bhs.com/fca/sw/Mar97/issue.htm or, jump directly to Ed Niles' series of articles at: http://www.bhs.com/fca/sw/oldtime.htm Thanks, Jeff From cak Mon Mar 3 09:47:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01884; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 09:47:34 -0800 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 09:47:34 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199703031747.JAA01884@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: WEEKS@VTA.dnet.idx.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Body rot and what to do about it h h We've tried POR-15 with mixed results. Where it sticks, it's very very good. But does not like being painted on smooth clean metal - it has a tendency to peel up in a big sheet. Most annoying. The stuff is impossible to clean up - wear gloves. People more experienced than I suggest that you decant a the can into several small sealable containers, and consider the containers one-shots - once you open them and start a job, use it all or toss it. I don't know if that's necessary or not. From cak Mon Mar 3 10:13:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA02051; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:13:42 -0800 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:13:42 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199703031813.KAA02051@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Monterey 97 We go every year - but we flag the races, so we stay at the track. All the hotels in the area seem to gouge, trying to make a year's income in a week, but the ones in Salinas seem to be less expensive and area just as close to the track. They don't have as much cachet, of course. With your tickets to the races, you get a free bus pass. This seems like a really good deal. It covers all of Monterey and Salinas, so you should be able to get to your hotel. Parking there is completely crazed. We will *try* to bring our car this year. Cross your fingers. Concours Italiano has gotten very full of itself; it was expensive enough last year that we turned around at the gate. It was pushing $90 for two entries plus parking. My impressions of CI is that it's mostly crowded with lots of gold chains, but only a few interesting cars and vendors to offset that. This impression might be colored by the fact that I was last there in '94, when Ferrari was the featured marque everywhere. Pebble Beach is worth seeing once, at least. You can buy tickets at the gate. The races are the star of the weekend, in my not-so-humble opinion. These cars were meant to be driven, not displayed as static objects. From cak Mon Mar 3 10:23:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA02126; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:23:06 -0800 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:23:06 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199703031823.KAA02126@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: cashion@sprynet.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 s/n 7775 As far as I can tell, the dash changed at some point in 1966. Our car came with the 1965 owner's manual, which is the 1964 manual with a few "change pages" bound into the front. It also came with a two-page insert from the factory, dated 1966, which shows the new dash layout with switches at the left and three center vents. Our car left the factory with a Blaupunkt Koln radio. (It's very cool - it's got a "slide rule" dial and has some sort of mechanical automatic seek function - push the button and the knob twists and the pointer moves. Doesn't work well - have to disassemble and refurbish some day.) Be sure to get the books and tools. These cost huge amounts of money to replace, if they can be replaced. Finally, I seem to remember Chris mentioning that there was a factory option of extended driver seat rails to make more legroom. Does anyone know if this can be easily added to a car? Calling this a factory option is going way out of bounds. There was a typed note on the order sheet, instructing that the driver's seat be moved back 2cm. This was accomplished with bent sheet metal and pop rivets - I saw the work first and thought it an ugly hack until I found the note in the accumulated paperwork. You could certainly do something like this if you wanted to - probably do better job, too! From cak Mon Mar 3 12:03:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA02810; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:03:27 -0800 Received: by smtp-relay-2.Adobe.COM (8.7.5) with ESMTP id MAA20095; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:14:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by inner-relay-2.Adobe.COM (8.7.5) with ESMTP id MAA05508; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:12:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-333.corp.Adobe.COM (8.7.5) with SMTP id MAA14157; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 12:11:28 -0800 (PST) Sender: jey@Adobe.COM Message-ID: <331B3070.695678E2@adobe.com> Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 12:11:28 -0800 From: Jeff Young Organization: Adobe Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: abrent@net-quest.com CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Monterey 97 References: <331821C0.4A15@net-quest.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew -- The first year I went to Monterey, I went to Concours Italiana, Pebble Beach, and the auction. I didn't make it to the races. The second year, I went to CI, the races, and the auction. I still go to the auction because it doesn't conflict with the races, but I haven't been back to CI or PB since "discovering" the races. In a vacuum, both concours are worth seeing, but if it's a question of the concours or the races, I'll go to the races every time. Of course, your mileage may vary. -- Jeff. From cak Mon Mar 3 13:02:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA03126; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 13:02:48 -0800 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA61744 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 23:14:09 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id XAA17098 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 23:14:09 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199703032114.XAA17098@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 s/n 7775 To: ferrari-vintage Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 23:14:09 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Calling this a factory option is going way out of bounds. There was a > typed note on the order sheet, instructing that the driver's seat > be moved back 2cm. This was accomplished with bent sheet metal and pop > rivets - I saw the work first and thought it an ugly hack until I found > the note in the accumulated paperwork. Our car has factory added "anti-joyride device" - it was added in the factory service done 1967 (documented in the invoice) - after the car had been stolen in Germany on its way to Modena :-) It is a small black box with a couple of wires, a keyhole and a stupid beeper. Worth keeping in the car, any opinions? > You could certainly do something like this if you wanted to - probably do > better job, too! Not to mention that the car was re-sprayed with only minor - if any - preparation. The scaling paint now reveals intact original paint :-I And by the way: How well does the original fresh air/heater blower work? My father-in-law always reminds me that being absolutely the worst piece of crap he's ever seen installed on any car - I guess the bearings must have had it in the carburettor fire, as the blower kept terrible noise and gave no fresh/heated air at all. Bob, at least you have driven your car in snow.. Ps. I have the original factory correspondence from 08-66 to 05-67 as a single ascii-file on my hard-disk, if anyone's interested. They list a huge number of spare parts with prices etc. Nice factory documents... if not much else. From cak Mon Mar 3 14:15:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA03638; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 14:15:39 -0800 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 17:26:50 -0500 (EST) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <970303172650.7a212@idx.com> Subject: Options and other ramblings I think that keeping any documented factory added option or device is a good idea, especially with production models. Even when these "extras" were poorly fabricated, they represent Ferrari's attempt to cater to the needs (whims?) of his customers. They set individual cars apart from the rest of the production run. In the case of Kare's "anti-joyride device", if it causes too much trouble on the road, bypass it with a jumper, but keep the box in the car. Its time to put an end to the myth that we drive our cars in the snow. I guess this has been kept alive by the "snow" shots of our cars that were on Ryan's web page, and later on Steve's page, as well as by tongue-in-cheek comments by Bill Papp and myself. Indeed the cars were moved under their own power to the snow covered farm road across the highway, but they were never really driven. The experience moving these cars a few hundred yard for the photo shoot was enough to convince even a crazy Vermonter that a Ferrari V12 is not a winter car. There is just too much power, even with gentle throttle application, to allow safe use under slippery conditions. On top of that, as Kare mentioned, the heater blower, even with good bearings, is a joke and one would probably freeze to death while experiencing the ride of his life. And finally, back to our thread on rust, one Vermont winter would probably destroy the car. I guess some people have driven Ferraris in the winter -- I seem to recall a PS in R&T showing a Boxer in a snow filled ditch with the caption "Not bad tires, Bob mused, but not really great tires either." You have to love it. Anyway its starting to warm up, the saps beginning to flow and I'm starting to get anxious for that first spring ride. Bob ************************* > typed note on the order sheet, instructing that the driver's seat > be moved back 2cm. This was accomplished with bent sheet metal and pop > rivets - I saw the work first and thought it an ugly hack until I found > the note in the accumulated paperwork. Our car has factory added "anti-joyride device" - it was added in the factory service done 1967 (documented in the invoice) - after the car had been stolen in Germany on its way to Modena :-) It is a small black box with a couple of wires, a keyhole and a stupid beeper. Worth keeping in the car, any opinions? > You could certainly do something like this if you wanted to - probably do > better job, too! Not to mention that the car was re-sprayed with only minor - if any - preparation. The scaling paint now reveals intact original paint :-I And by the way: How well does the original fresh air/heater blower work? My father-in-law always reminds me that being absolutely the worst piece of crap he's ever seen installed on any car - I guess the bearings must have had it in the carburettor fire, as the blower kept terrible noise and gave no fresh/heated air at all. Bob, at least you have driven your car in snow.. Ps. I have the original factory correspondence from 08-66 to 05-67 as a single ascii-file on my hard-disk, if anyone's interested. They list a huge number of spare parts with prices etc. Nice factory documents... if not much else. From cak Mon Mar 3 16:46:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA04925; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 16:46:16 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd57-051.compuserve.com [199.174.241.51]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA07747; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 16:57:37 -0800 Message-Id: <199703040057.QAA07747@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Bob" , Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 s/n 7775 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:06:38 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Bob. I should have mentioned that the owner took great pains to show me the original ignition pieces ... yet he couldn't find the toolkit and manual! I knew about the price of the ashtray and manual. I was shocked at the toolkit value you noted. That gives me a lot of negotiation room; although I would MUCH rather just have the toolkit. Do you know how I could document the toolkit value? Regards, Bryan I installed a skylight in my apartment.... The people who live above me are furious! -- Steven Wright ---------- > From: Bob > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: RE: 330 GT 2+2 s/n 7775 > Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 11:12 AM > > Bryan, > > The rear seats of the GTE, the 330 America and the Series I 330 GT 2+2 all > have an armrest between the rear seats, I thought that the Series 2 did as > well but am not certain. > > Factory photos of street Ferraris from the 60's rarely (never?) show outside > mirrors, which leads me to believe that they were dealer or owner add-ons. I > have seen mirrors both on the fenders and the doors, sometimes only on the > drivers side sometimes on both. Vintage mirrors in any of these locations > should be ok with concours judges. > > Missing emblems probably aren't a problem but don't let the seller get away > with keeping the toolkit ($2500-$5000), manual ($200-$300) or ashtrays ($300- > $500). > > Are all of the original ignition parts with the car, and were the distributors > modified so that it would be difficult to return them to original condition? > I hate to think what 2 replacement distributors would cost if the ones in > the car have been "destroyed"; I've seen people asking several hundred $'s > each for vintage Marelli ignition coils but suspect that one could do much > better in Alfa or Fiat circles. We have electronic ignition in our 330 and it > really improved its driveability. > > The switch on the transmission is for the backup lights. Someone else suggested > that it might be for the OD lockout but that switch is located on the top of the > transmission just behind the bellhousing. I don't know if the 5 speed has a > plugged hole in that location or not. > > Bob Weeks From cak Mon Mar 3 16:46:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA04928; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 16:46:19 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd57-051.compuserve.com [199.174.241.51]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA07850; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 16:57:42 -0800 Message-Id: <199703040057.QAA07850@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Chris Kantarjiev" , , Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 s/n 7775 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:11:35 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 7775 had seatbelts of a design I've not seen (that's not saying much though!). It's a bit difficult to describe. There are no length adjustment points except where the shoulder belt latches into the floor belt. There is no true lap belt... shoulder restraint only. The latch is a metal outfit with a plate that lifts up or locks down beneath a 'hooked' catch. Seemed quite secure, but no lap belts was, as Chris notes, disconcerting at first. Regards, Bryan I installed a skylight in my apartment.... The people who live above me are furious! -- Steven Wright ---------- > From: Chris Kantarjiev > To: WEEKS@VTA.dnet.idx.com; ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: RE: 330 GT 2+2 s/n 7775 > Date: Monday, March 03, 1997 11:39 AM > > 9161 has a (fixed) armrest between the two rear seats. It's really a 2+2, > not a 2+ two or three! > > Our car was delivered without outside mirrors. The factory order > sheet lists them as an option - that is, you could order one (as > well as a seat belt for either side, headrests, and a rallye clock - > those are the options I can remember at the moment). Most of the cars > I've seen have had some variant of the bullet style mirror - there's > a particular brand name but I can't remember it at the moment. > > It's a bit disconcerting to drive down the freeway with neither > side mirrors nor seat belts, but you get used to it. I don't expect > to add a side mirror, but I have some belts from a 365 GT 2+2 that > should fit. We just have to take the time to find the anchor points > that I'm assured are already there under the carpeting. From cak Tue Mar 4 09:43:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01701; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 09:43:44 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 09:43:44 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199703041743.JAA01701@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: cashion@sprynet.com, ferrari-vintage Cc: 2+2, 330, 7775, GT, Re: 7775 had seatbelts of a design I've not seen (that's not saying much though!). It's a bit difficult to describe. There are no length adjustment points except where the shoulder belt latches into the floor belt. There is no true lap belt... shoulder restraint only. The latch is a metal outfit with a plate that lifts up or locks down beneath a 'hooked' catch. Seemed quite secure, but no lap belts was, as Chris notes, disconcerting at first. Hmm. Did the buckles have a little image of an open parachute on them? These sound a lot like the Pirelli "paratrooper" or "flippy-flop" belts that appeared in the 330 GTC. The story was that Enzo had found a bunch of them military surplus and adapted them to the cars to satisfy increasing safety regulations. (They're another pricey option, btw; I paid $600 for a pair and thought I got a good deal.) I would have expected to length adjustments, one at each lower mounting point... When I said no lap belts, I really meant no lap belts or shoulder belts or belts at all... From cak Tue Mar 4 09:50:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01752; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 09:50:08 -0800 Received: from lizard (actually remote-acc-19.unil.ch) by unilmta3.unil.ch with SMTP inbound; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:01:18 +0100 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970304191104.27c7d02e@pop-server.unil.ch> X-Sender: grossier@pop-server.unil.ch X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ferrari-vintage From: Greg Subject: new subscriber Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 18:01:27 +0000 Hello everybody I am the 17th subscriber of the vintage list. As Chris suggested, I introduce me. My name is Gregoire Rossier, 29, from the french part of Switzerland. I am a PHD student in molecular biology. I am here thanks to Kare. I subscribed to the ferrari list, but it is most of the time boring. I do not own any Ferrari, but I own about 100 mini-models Ferrari. My interest in this vintage list is to exchange informations about history of classic models, their chassis numbers, their colors, owners and sometimes strange stories about them. My interest is also for pictures that could help me for improving my die-cast models. Unfortunately, as I do not own a Ferrari, I am not an expert for technical or repair informations. It could also been interesting to know the important Ferrari meetings, but in most cases it will be too far for me. What about a "concours" (I do not know the term in english), where someone could send a picture (not too big) of a particular Ferrari and the others, find the model name, the body manufacturer and if possible the chassis numbers? This is amazing and could enlarge the picture library and the general knowledge of everybody. Your opinions are welcome. I thank you for your previous positive opinions and wait for your messages with great impatience Best regards. Greg From cak Tue Mar 4 20:10:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA05493; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:10:07 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd07-028.compuserve.com [199.174.216.28]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA13690; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:21:25 -0800 Message-Id: <199703050421.UAA13690@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Chris Kantarjiev" , Cc: <2+2>, <330>, <7775>, , Subject: Re: Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:10:40 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sounds like this might be what the belts were. I don't remember the emblem, but the belt material DID remind me of ammo belt material! Coarse webbing and somewhere between khaki and green! Regards, Bryan I installed a skylight in my apartment.... The people who live above me are furious! -- Steven Wright ---------- > From: Chris Kantarjiev > > > Hmm. Did the buckles have a little image of an open parachute on them? > These sound a lot like the Pirelli "paratrooper" or "flippy-flop" belts > that appeared in the 330 GTC. The story was that Enzo had found a bunch > of them military surplus and adapted them to the cars to satisfy > increasing safety regulations. (They're another pricey option, btw; From cak Tue Mar 4 21:17:52 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA05995; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:17:49 -0800 Received: by dub-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA15311; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 00:28:47 -0500 Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 00:28:22 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Catchin' up again. To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199703050028_MC2-121D-7F2C@compuserve.com> Hi guys: Back in town and reading through the posts for the last few days. Andrew -- yep, Monterey is a must for car guys of any marque persuasion. I know where Casa Munras is, and if it's anything like the place nearby that I prefer -- the Pacific Grove Inn -- you'll have a great time. Tickets to all the events can be had at the gate to each, but there's probably a discount for getting them ahead of time. Where? I dunno. Len's event is always fun, but nothing can top '94. Can it? Len? Might be extra fun to set up some sort of dinner/pub crawl/night in jail for the members of this group. I'm all for it. I agree that Concours Italiano is getting a little out of hand, but what phenomenon isn't? Look what happened to Rock & Roll. Pebble Beach is a must at least once. The cars, the stars, the setting, the sweating. Wow. The Historics are probably the coolest of all. Sensory overload to the max. So what if most of the guys tool around at seven-tenths and most of the good spots on the hillsides are covered in devlish pricker bushes? That really WAS a GTO that just howled past. And no kidding, that was the real Phil Hill lapping at ten-tenths in that 212 Barchetta he drove to victory right over there in Pebble Beach in the Fifties. And the guy standing next to you in the paddock admiring the '67 Ferrari F1 car was none other than Derek Bell, and you remember his grin when the owner recognized him too and offered him a few laps in it. And where else are you gonna stand right next to an Alfa P3 (one of four all in a row) and have a guy walk over with a big smile and tell you that this particular car was Nuvolari's? Okay, so I guess I'm a pretty big fan of the Historics. Yikes -- how much longer 'til it's August? Bob -- your description of the metalwork on your GTE sounds pretty much like what mine's going to need, and multiplying your 80-100 hours by my local shop's $55/hour rate, sounds right in line with what the owner estimated for my car. Guess I'm just going to have to bite the bullet. No sense in saving a few bucks on the job and being stuck with a crappy job I'll hate forever. Or even worse, tackling something I'm completely unqualified to do, then having to shamefacedly drag it to a real expert and fork over even more money to have the mistakes undone. Best to all, Dave Booth From cak Wed Mar 5 10:31:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01995; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:31:42 -0800 Received: from 207.213.5.52 (du52-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.52]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id KAA19330; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:42:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <331D627D.2990@net-quest.com> Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 12:09:43 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari-Vintage List Subject: enough already, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit O.K. O.K. Ok ok ok ok ok , When I go to Monterey, I'll go to the races. Wow, I didn't think a comment about not going to something would generate so much activity about what I'd be missing out on. But seriously, I do appreciate everyones comments, I would have missed out on something if you didn't tell me. The feeling I get is that everyone just shows up and gets tickets at the gate, if anyone disagrees with that please let me know, i.e. if you know where to get tickets in advance. - do they run out of tickets ?? Having said all that I did get that the Luguna Seca webpage has advance ticket sales available there, so I'm just looking for CI and the Auction at the moment, PB will wait till next year. Thanks again for everyones input, Andrew. From cak Wed Mar 5 11:14:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA02296; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:14:02 -0800 Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:14:02 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199703051914.LAA02296@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: 104375.2245@compuserve.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Catchin' up again. By all means, go to the races. What I typically recommend to first timers is to split Friday between CI and the track, spend Saturday at the track, and spend Sunday at Pebble Beach. The Sunday groups at the track are somehow less exciting - but that's me. *Except* for the last group of Sunday, which alternates between old F1 cars and old FIA cars (think 512BB silhouette racers and GT40s). Not to be missed. There are lots of folks parading their cars at five or sixth tenths. They still sound great. Then there are the folks that are really putting on a show - the guys in the Trans-Am group have been racing together for years now, know each other very well, and it seems they choreograph the race - the top five spots are covered by about a second through the whole race, and positions change every time around. Combine that with the sound of unmuffled Amurrican V-8s and you've got a hell of a show. Stirling Moss has been at the track for the past two years, driving various cars, but he has consistently driven a little Sebring Sprite. He's gotten into a real grudge match with another car in that group, and orange Morgan. For two years running, Stirling has led the race only to be passed somewhere in the last five turns... also quite a show. (And then there was the guy in the light blue 250 SWB in '94 - I was flagging at the apex of turn 5, and he hit that apex every time around, lifting the front right wheel off the ground to boot. He was most definitely not parading. Yowza.) These cars must be seen in motion. Pebble Beach is a fine testament to patience and money spent and anal retentiveness. I salute them and am glad that someone does it. But it's not what cars are about for me. From cak Mon Mar 10 14:50:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA03743; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:50:13 -0800 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id BAA157214 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:01:44 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id BAA09397 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:01:43 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199703102301.BAA09397@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: Scuderia Askolin To: kpietila@cc.hut.fi (Kare M A Pietila) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 00:00:00 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: kpietila@cc.hut.fi Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by vipunen.hut.fi id BAA157214 This one's for the historians within our posting list... As it's so awfully quiet and I have this story I compiled for the current= owner of 500 Testa Rossa 0610 MDTR Giancarlo Galeazzi in Switzerland, floating = around my hard drive I thought I might as well send send a copy this way... The History of Scuderia Askolin In the fifties nobody had heard of the Flying Finns outside Scandinavia. = The Helsinki GP arranged at the Zoo since 1932, was a remarkable national eve= nt though and many Scandinavian drivers took part in it with their custom bu= ilt Specials (2-seaters mainly built on remains of crashed American sedans wi= th horrible looking bodies). In the fifties factory built sports- and GT-car= s replaced the last specials thus ending a very interesting era on the trac= k. The last specials were entered in the 1956 race and by 1957 only genuine sports- and GT-cars were seen in the heart of Helsinki along with the F3-= cars in their own class, of course.=20 The brightest star in Finnish racing was Curt Lincoln who made his living= by=20 exporting timber, you have to remember that unlike the continent there we= re no professional racing drivers in Finland in those days. In his profession M= r.=20 Lincoln had learned to know Carl-Johan Askolin, a wealthy patron, who own= ed plenty of woods and a saw mill in Pernaja, Koskenkyl=E4 near Porvoo. Carl= -Johan Askolin was a great fan of racing and had even dreamed of driving at the = Zoo himself.=20 There was some kind of a plan of forming a Finnish racing team capable of= =20 entering the international events on the continent. Scandinavian racing e= vents=20 were too small to keep a true Scuderia alive. As soon as Mr. Askolin hear= d of=20 this he promised to back up the effort financially.=20 The Swedes had succeeded well with Ferraris on the Scandinavian tracks an= d so=20 they decided to go that way. Curt Lincoln contacted Tore Bjurstrom, The=20 Scandinavian Ferrari Agent in Sweden, who accepted to give them a car, he= was=20 a car salesman after all. The car they received was the 500 Testa Rossa 0= 610=20 MDTR that was owned by Scuderia Svezia formed by Tore Bjurstrom himself. = They=20 only rented the car for the race in 1957 to see if it suited their needs.= The=20 car proved to be an excellent choice. Curt Lincoln won his class 12.5.195= 7 in=20 this 25-lap-race (Class X under 2000 cc) with the average speed of 107.5 = km/h=20 and they purchased the car. The car had a 4-cylinder engine with 1985 cc=20 producing 190 bhp at 7000 rpm.=20 The success inspired them to get more Ferraris and by 1958 they had added= a=20 250 Testa Rossa (0724 TR), a 250 GT Berlinetta (0723 GT) and a 500 Testa = Rossa=20 C (0702 MDTR) to their fleet. They also officially announced the forming = of=20 Scuderia Askolin and introduced their cars and drivers to the press suita= bly=20 prior to the 1958 race. Even racing overalls and suits had been designed = to=20 carry the Scuderia Askolin colours. Scuderia Askolin may have been the la= rgest=20 private racing team (they must mean largest team owned by one single pers= on) in whole of Europe in its day. Scuderia Askolin as introduced in 1958:=20 Ferrari 250 Testa Rossa Curt Lincoln Ferrari 250 GT Berlinetta Curt Lincoln Ferrari 500 Testa Rossa Fred Geitel Ferrari 500 Testa Rossa C Lars Finnila Mercedes Benz 300 SL Bjarne Rehn Jaguar D-Type Bjarne Rehn Cooper-Norton F3 Curt Lincoln Cooper-Norton F3 Lars Finnila Cooper-Norton F3 Fred Geitel The fact that they managed to buy three brand new racing Ferraris one clo= se to=20 another proves how valuable the factory concerned the Scandinavian market= to be at the time. You could not just walk in and order the racing cars. On the= other hand it was not their intention to have such a large fleet to begin with.= =20 One of the problems in Finland was that there was only one main event and= =20 almost no possibilities to practise properly. The success of Scuderia Ask= olin lead into the situation where police admitted permission to practise on h= ighway few days before the big event, taken that all the traffic rules had to be respected. There were no speed limits at the time, though.=20 Trouble ahead Ten days before the 1958 race Fred Geitel created another problem. Some o= f the drivers had been practising in Nummela and were returning to Helsinki. Cu= rt=20 Lincoln was driving the big 250 TR ahead and Geitel in the minor 500TR=20 followed.=20 They met a lorry at Bembole and the side of the bed fell loose at a bump = in the road. A huge amount of brewer's grain fell in front of Geitel's Testa Ros= sa=20 approaching the spot at high speed. The car made a terrible slide, hit a = bridge support, leaped high into the air and flipped over. There were a few olde= r=20 ladies having tea in a nearby garden (those same old ladies that always s= eem to be present at site of an accident!) who told how the car had flown abo= ve the telephone wires before landing upside down in the middle of the road and = the lucky unhurt driver following shortly thereafter falling onto his car! An= other story has it that he burned his elbow by hitting the hot exhaust manifold= .=20 Lincoln took Geitel home to calm him down and the police took the sideboa= rd of the lorry as evidence. Geitel was later convicted guilty as charged.=20 The wreck was taken to the Veho-Oy workshop at Pitajanmaki, Helsinki. The= =20 chassis was cross-measured to see if it had distorted in the crash. Thing= s weren't that bad after all as Ferrari made extremely rigid frames at the = time.=20 As Fred Geitel had earlier raced motorcycles he knew well a certain Mr. T= oimi=20 Kokkola who had become the manager of "Uusi Autokoritehdas-Oy" producing=20 "Wiima" coachworks for busses in Vantaa (this explains the nickname "Werr= ari"). Everyone doubted heavily that the car could not possibly be repaired in s= uch a short time, but not Mr. Kokkola. We can do it for sure, he said.=20 They took the sad looking car into Vantaa together with a sister car that= =20 served as a model for the new body. As the sister car was a later 500 TRC= =20 (0702 MDTR) the reconstructed body was a little different compared to the original. The men worked 10-12 hour days cutting, forming and welding sheetmetal and after a week the new body was ready to be painted.=20 They were quite worried over how the mechanicals had survived and reporte= d the incident to the factory. Mr. Aldo Bertani, a Ferrari mechanic, was sent = by the factory to check the damage and decide on needed service. Nothing major w= as=20 found. Every one, except Mr. Kokkola perhaps, was amazed to see the car w= ith new body to be ready 2 days before the first practise.=20 Mr. Bertani told that it takes three weeks to build a Testa Rossa body at= the factory, even if they have the original design-prints, correct tools and = have done several bodies earlier. He was very amazed over the fact that the ca= r=20 had been rebodied in less than a week with such limited resources.=20 Perhaps Fred Geitel was too shocked after the accident as he didn't perfo= rm very well in the 1958 race, his mildly hurt arm may also have disturbed h= im. On the other hand the car was beginning to show its age by now. Six cars entered the race and Fred Geitel finished 5th only leaving the Lotus 11 L= e Mans of Holger Laine behind.=20 According to Mr. Geitel the driving characteristics were extremely limite= d=20 compared to modern cars. The suspension was very hard and the sharp edged tyres didn't bite to the track very well. It was very hard to keep it on = the track as it tended to lose its grip without a warning. The drum brakes, although being huge, were not very efficient. The engine was powerful and provided good torque. The top-gear could not be used on the relatively sl= ow=20 2-km-track at the Zoo in Helsinki.=20 After the 1958 race Scuderia Ascolin took part in a few international eve= nts, the 1000-Km-Race at the Nurnburgring (*) among others. The active period = was very short and by 1959 Scuderia Ascolin had already ceased to function. T= he=20 250 TR was sold to USA through Chinetti and remains in Texas with its eng= ine in California, the 500 TR still has its Finnish bodywork (Yes, they reall= y di an excellent job!) and is today in Switzerland as is the 500 TRC 0702 = MDTR. The 250 GT TdF still remains in Finland in beautifull original cond= ition, even if Jess Pourret's book on 250 competition cars includes a few untrue rumo= urs=20 of heavy modifications and a fire (in Spa where it never raced!) (*) They intended to enter the 12-Hour-Race at Spa in Belgium and Askolin= had ordered an airplane to take two cars, the 250 TR and the 250 GT TdF ther= e immediately after the Helsinki GP in 1958. It all started to go wrong as = the 250 GT TdF didn't fit into the plane. It was only a matter of an inch or = so and they ended up smashing the rear fender to get the car in! They couldn= 't land at Spa because of bad weather, however, and were forced to land behi= nd the French border. So they missed the whole race (They had even left Helsinki= GP immediately after the race before the Prize seremony to be able to reach Spa in time!). The 1000 Km Race of Nurnburgring was only a week away and = so they decided to go there instead. Ps. Let me add that the only Ferraris ever raced by Finns were the 4 Ferr= aris of Askolin and two privately owned 750 Monzas: 0568M raced by C-O Bremer=20 (see Cavallino #51 for a review) and an another unknown 750 Monza raced b= y=20 Mr. Keinanen. From cak Mon Mar 10 15:34:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA04062; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 15:34:24 -0800 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id BAA40096 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:45:56 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id BAA09962 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:45:55 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199703102345.BAA09962@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: one line missing... To: ferrari-vintage Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 01:45:54 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Depending on your mail reader/editor there may be a line missing in the second to last capittel: 250 TR was sold to USA through Chinetti and remains in Texas with its engine in California, the 500 TR still has its Finnish bodywork (Yes, they really di an excellent job!) and is today in Switzerland as is the 500 TRC 0702 MDTR. The 250 GT TdF still remains in Finland in beautifull original condition, even if Jess Pourret's book on 250 competition cars includes a few untrue rumours of heavy modifications and a fire (in Spa where it never raced!) From cak Wed Mar 12 18:38:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA08228; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 18:38:17 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd109-044.compuserve.com [206.175.108.44]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA27255 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 18:49:43 -0800 Message-Id: <199703130249.SAA27255@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Pictures of 7775 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 20:43:34 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have scanned photos that I took of the exterior and interior of 330 GT 2+2 s/n 7775. If anyone is interested, I can send them. There are three BMP files, each containing two photos and each about 230 kb in size. Regards, Bryan From cak Wed Mar 12 19:02:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA08331; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 19:01:59 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (dd60-188.compuserve.com [199.174.204.188]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA12968 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 19:13:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199703130313.TAA12968@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Further on graphics files Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 20:49:09 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry... the BMP files are about 400kb, the TIF versions of the same photos are 230 kb. Regards, Bryan From cak Sat Mar 15 15:04:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA03007; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:04:45 -0800 Received: from 204.140.219.43 (dial014w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.43]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id PAA17974 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:04:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <332ABB83.6A59@net-quest.com> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 15:08:59 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: 250 Photo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For anyone interested there's a nice shot of the interior of a 250GTE on the front cover of Prancing Horse #122. Later, Andrew. From cak Sat Mar 15 18:51:03 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA04032; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 18:51:01 -0800 Received: by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id VAA07478; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 21:50:27 -0500 Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 21:50:12 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Prancing Horse cover To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199703152150_MC2-12AB-56EE@compuserve.com> Is there an article on the GTE in the subject issue, or is it just a cover? By the way, does anyone in this group have a collection of Ferrari Market Letter back issues? If so, there are a couple of articles on the Series II cabriolet I'd like to beg copies of if possible. Dave Booth Vista, Ca. "It's very quiet, Tonto. Almost too quiet." -- Clayton Moore "Uhh. That right, Kemosabe." -- Jay Silverheels From cak Sat Mar 15 23:50:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id XAA05308; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 23:49:59 -0800 Received: from 204.140.219.43 (dial014w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.43]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id XAA20530 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 1997 23:49:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <332B36A1.3F53@net-quest.com> Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 23:54:11 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: 250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No Article on the 250 I'm afraid, just the cover. The photo was part of the northeast regions exploits, so there is an article about that listing the car's owners as Gerd Schwarzkopf and Dennis Rak. No serial number however. I would have to check this but it looks as if it could be painted the same dark red as the original on my car, but with tan interior. Inspiring, my car looks alot rattier than their's. Andrew. From cak Sun Mar 16 16:04:16 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA03021; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 16:04:14 -0800 Received: by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id TAA01526; Sun, 16 Mar 1997 19:03:38 -0500 Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 19:03:17 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: current P-H cover To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199703161903_MC2-12B2-A0E1@compuserve.com> Andrew: This could be the push I finally need to re-up with the FCA (for the third or fourth time). My GTE's interior is the dark tan/orange/saddle/cinnamon color, and apart from a white GTE from West Virginia (whose was it, Len?) at C.I. last year, I haven't seen one like it. In the event none of the rest of you saw this particular example, it was restored to within an inch of its life. The owner was a genial chap who didn't mind in the least telling strangers he had more than a hundred thou in the job (!) after deciding to turn this daily driver into a show car. Even had the bottom of the belly pans polished. A little extreme for my taste. Best to all, Dave Booth From cak Wed Mar 19 20:01:32 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA05061; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 20:01:30 -0800 Received: by hil-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA09660; Wed, 19 Mar 1997 23:00:56 -0500 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 23:00:40 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: more Monterey info To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199703192301_MC2-12DB-F6F0@compuserve.com> Hi all: A few weeks ago, we were waxing eloquent about the many splendors of Car Weekend in Monterey in August. At the time, I had to admit my ignorance regarding advance tickets to the events. Doesn't everyone just show up, line up and pay up? Guess not. Anyhow, Gerald Roush's Ferrari Market Letter events calendar offers the following information: Concours Italiano is on 8/15. No advance ticket info listed. The Monterey Historic Automobile Races are on 8/15 (practice), 16 and 17 at Laguna Seca. Contact General Racing at 805-966-9151 or fax at 805-966-5028. Honored marque this year is Porsche. We all oughta show up just to give 'em dirty looks. The 47th Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance is 8/17 and benefits the United Way of the Monterey Peninsula. Tickets will be limited, they sez, and are available in advance from UWMP at 408-372-8026 or fax 408-372-4945. And if you're going, for mercy's sake get yourself some room reservations right now. That weekend, there's not a farmhouse, doghouse or outhouse that's not full to the rafters, and with 15 people praying for a cancellation. Best, Dave Booth From cak Thu Mar 20 14:58:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA03680; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 14:58:35 -0800 Received: from 207.213.5.72 (du72-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.72]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id OAA24317; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 14:58:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3331650A.1BBA@net-quest.com> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 16:25:49 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari-Vintage List Subject: Valves and stuff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Bit of a trivia question for anyone. I got a valve with my 250GTE, it was in a box with the car. I can't tell if it's an inlet or exhaust, but it is definatly used. I'm using it as a paperweight on my desk, but just this morning I became curious enough to start wondering just what it was from. I'ts 30mm in diameter, has a 10 stamped on the face and is 95mm long. Any idea anyone, not from ferrari, exhaust, series II or series III, anything would be interesting to me. Regards, Andrew. From cak Thu Mar 20 23:33:15 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id XAA06313; Thu, 20 Mar 1997 23:33:13 -0800 Received: by arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id CAA12111; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 02:32:38 -0500 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:58:10 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Our man in Helsinki To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199703210231_MC2-12E6-1CB0@compuserve.com> Hey Kare: With Presidents Clinton and Yeltsin in Helsinki this week, we are already: * learning a lot about Finland, like how there are lots of women in government, including the Defense Minister; that Finland was the first country in the world to give women the vote; and that more Finnish women than men get college degrees. I obviously pay closer attention when the news is talking about women. * seeing all kinds of video footage of Helsinki street scenes (still looks pretty damned cold to me).. And all with the promise of lots more to come. So here's my point. How about you start showing up in the crowds at all the public photo opportunities for the Clinton-Yeltsin Summit wearing a Ferrari jacket/sweatshirt and maybe waving a sign? Doesn't have to list the Vintage Ferrari newsgroup address or anything -- maybe just "Forza Ferrari" or something appropriate. This is a very popular activity at sporting events in the USA, called "I'll do just about anything to get on tv". We'll be watching for you. Best, Dave Booth From cak Fri Mar 21 22:45:33 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA06030; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 22:45:30 -0800 Received: by arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA15388; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 01:44:57 -0500 Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 01:44:26 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Spare valve To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199703220144_MC2-12F4-2EEB@compuserve.com> Hi guys: Andrew's question about the identity to his valve made me slip on my shoes and toddle out to the garage, since I've got a head from my '60 SII cab sitting on my bench right now. All the valves are still installed in the head and are way too sooty to see if there's anything stamped on the face. It also makes them a little hard to measure with any real precision, but 30mm diameter and 95 mm length appears right for the exhaust valves -- particularly if they're flat across the face. The intakes are dished. I keep a similar paperweight on my desk. It's an exhaust valve from the 330 America's motor -- one that a departing valve seat held open just long enough for the crown of the piston to arrive and help get it closed. Spin it in your fingers and it waves bye-bye in the most dramatic manner. One more thing: any of the SoCal guys on this list have any referrals for me for engine machine shop work? Both the shops I had intended to use are too busy or too nervous to tackle the job, and the prospect of blindly going to some unknown shop is too nerve-wracking to describe. Best, Dave Booth From cak Fri Mar 21 22:45:27 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA06028; Fri, 21 Mar 1997 22:45:25 -0800 Received: by arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA13100; Sat, 22 Mar 1997 01:44:52 -0500 Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 01:44:26 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Spare valve To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199703220144_MC2-12F4-2EEB@compuserve.com> Hi guys: Andrew's question about the identity to his valve made me slip on my shoes and toddle out to the garage, since I've got a head from my '60 SII cab sitting on my bench right now. All the valves are still installed in the head and are way too sooty to see if there's anything stamped on the face. It also makes them a little hard to measure with any real precision, but 30mm diameter and 95 mm length appears right for the exhaust valves -- particularly if they're flat across the face. The intakes are dished. I keep a similar paperweight on my desk. It's an exhaust valve from the 330 America's motor -- one that a departing valve seat held open just long enough for the crown of the piston to arrive and help get it closed. Spin it in your fingers and it waves bye-bye in the most dramatic manner. One more thing: any of the SoCal guys on this list have any referrals for me for engine machine shop work? Both the shops I had intended to use are too busy or too nervous to tackle the job, and the prospect of blindly going to some unknown shop is too nerve-wracking to describe. Best, Dave Booth From cak Wed Mar 26 07:11:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA00791; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 07:11:18 -0800 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 10:11:06 -0500 (EST) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <970326101106.2d6b1@idx.com> Subject: Sloppy shifter Boy, you guys are all pretty quiet. The other nite I decided, that in spite of all the snow, I should start getting the 330 ready for spring. During our last drive last fall the infamous "spagetti shifter syndrome" struck, so Monday nite I removed the front seats and tunnel cover to gain access to the linkage box on the top of the transmission. This box is secured by 5 or 6 10 mm nuts and was easily removed as was the sheet metal cover on the bottom. The cast part that holds the bushing is held on a shaft with a 10 mm bolt which was also easily removed. The nylon bushing that the end of the shifter goes into was badly broken so I called Geoff Ohland to order a new one. He said that he had two options for me, the official Ferrari part for $75 or an aftermarket piece for $7.95. He said that the aftermarket version had a slot in it whereas the original did not. I could see no reason why the slotted version would cause any problems since it fits snugly into a hole in a casting anyway, so I took door #2. It is my suspicion that the aftermarket part is made out of a harder material, thus the slot, and this could cause more vibration to be transmitted up the shift but that should not be too objectionable. I'll send a follow up message after I have a chance to take a test drive. Bob From cak Wed Mar 26 19:43:18 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA04466; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 19:43:16 -0800 Received: by dub-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id WAA09025; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 22:42:43 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 22:42:18 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: shifters & Britcar mechanics To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199703262242_MC2-1354-FDFD@compuserve.com> Hi Guys: Bob's question about shifter bushings is interesting. My 330 shop manual shows a bushing that looks just like the 250s, so I can offer the following: the original bushing was caramel colored. Years ago, FAF in Atlanta came up with a replacement that was of a much harder material, was black in color, and had a split in it (starting to sound familiar maybe?). My guess is that the split in the bushing allows it to flex slightly under load, thus prolonging its life. The bushing that Geoff Ohland is offering sounds like it's probably the same one -- and at a really good price. I did my replacement a long time after my cab's bushing broke, but it doesn't transmit too much vibration for my taste. In case any of you guys other than Chris K and I are loony enough to still be involved in British sportscars, I offer the following, purloined from the Jensen-Healey newsgroup: Five surgeons are taking a coffee break. Says the first surgeon, "I really prefer operating on Accountants, because all the parts inside them are numbered". The second surgeon offers, "No. I think Librarians are the best, because everything inside them is alphabetized". The third surgeons joins in, "You're both wrong. Electricians are the easiest because everything inside them is color-coded". The fourth surgeon says, "Lawyers are my all-time favorite. They're heartless, spineless, gutless, and their asses can be swapped with their heads". At which point the fifth surgeon, who had been taking all this in, replies with firm conviction, "British car restorers are the best by far. They always understand when you have a few pieces left over at the end". Best, Dave Booth From cak Wed Mar 26 21:13:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA04862; Wed, 26 Mar 1997 21:13:18 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id AAA26635; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:12:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 00:12:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970327001239_-1001801877@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: 104375.2245@compuserve.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: shifters & Britcar mechanics Dave, Thanks for the British car humor! I, too, am a former and current owner of Brit cars (currently racing a Mallock U2). Don't understand the Porsche VS Ferrari threads on the regular Ferrari group. Neat cars are made everywhere. Harold Pace From cak Thu Mar 27 20:33:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA04534; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:33:44 -0800 Received: from 204.140.219.34 (dial005w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.34]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id UAA15554 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:33:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <333ADAB1.4815@net-quest.com> Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:38:13 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: More Monterey Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I just found out today that the pacific region FCA has reserved rooms at the Casa Munras as well as the Marriot. I'm not staying at the marriot, but I can tell you that the Munras is $125/night and their number is (408) 375-2411. If anyone is interested. I'm getting the pacific newsletter any day now and will update everyone on anything else that comes up. Regards, Andrew. From cak Thu Mar 27 20:55:30 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA04637; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:55:27 -0800 Received: by hil-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA27118; Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:54:54 -0500 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 23:54:37 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Britcars in the woodpile? To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199703272354_MC2-1366-9B18@compuserve.com> Hi Gang: Let's see now. Four of the 17 or so people on this group are confessed current dupes of the Old British Sportscar Cabal, huh? I'll just bet there are more. I'd be willing to bet most of us on this group have a Britcar lurking in our past like some guilty little secret, don't we? Makes sense when you think of it. They were relatively easy to acquire/own/grow with when we were penniless and eager to sample the world of Furrin Cars. But how to explain STILL having one -- or more (Chris) -- of the wretched things? In my case, I first scratched the sportscar itch with an Austin Healey 100-6, and then moved on up to an XK-150 Jaguar. Implausibly, when my wife started making noises in the early Eighties about a Summertime roadster, we rejected all kinds of MGBs, Fiat 124s, Alfas, Spridgets and the like, and stupid me wound up totally restoring a '74 Jensen Healey. This is a car sometimes referred to as ".. an answer to a question nobody ever asked". And since the Britcar humor got some reaction, dare we try a little more? You know you've owned a British car too long when: * You call AAA's roadside assistance number and they recognize your voice. * You buy a car "for parts" and don't believe it yourself. * You look under the hood and see 1. more duct tape than hoses 2. more electrical tape then original wiring. * You get in a different car and are surprised 1. when all the instruments work 2. by being able to talk without shouting 3. by it not needing oil (or water, brake fluid, etc.) * You get in a friend's car and are NOT surprised by 1. a spare battery 2. a tool kit that fills half the trunk space 3. a slightly singed instrument panel * You budget four hours for a 150 mile trip -- three driving and one repair. * Your car makes a funny noise and although your passengers can't hear it, you can. Also, you know immediately what's wrong, what parts you need, what they will cost, what junkyard they're in, and what tools you'll need to fix it. * Your spouse is no longer fazed by sharing half the kitchen with disassembled carbs. One last thing: I know what a Ginetta G4 is, but what's that other make? Best, Dave Booth From cak Fri Mar 28 06:49:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00634; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 06:49:03 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 9:48:56 -0500 (EST) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <970328094856.220d0@idx.com> Subject: RE: Britcars in the woodpile? Sorry guys, but I've never owned a British vehicle of any kind, although I did covet a friend's Triumph Bonneville when I was in college (my bike was a little Ducati 125). Several of my friends have had various Britcars over the years and as a consequence have spent many hours under their hoods. How about French cars? We have owned Peugeots since the early 70's and mourn their passing from the US. Does that mean that I am still wacky enough to stay on the list? Bob Weeks From cak Fri Mar 28 14:02:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA02864; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:02:24 -0800 Received: from 207.213.5.50 (du50-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.50]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id OAA29050; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:02:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <333BE3F8.2EA5@net-quest.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 15:30:03 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari-Vintage List Subject: Of Pommies in the woodpile. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Sorry to devote a post to cars other than of Italian persausion, but I couldn't resist. Being an Australian I grew up with all the cars you guy's mentioned so far and then some. Remember, Austrailia drives on the correct side, with right hand drive cars, just like pommieland. Also in the 60's and 70's the saftey requirements on Australian roads followed the plan that if no part except the wheels were touching the road, you could drive anything, anywhere. So we got stuff you guy's only saw in books. And a flood of them to boot. I have never personally owned a British car, but my father has had many, Triumph's, Austins, etc. He currently has a rather nice MGB_GT, but his experiences over the years have left me with little desire to "go there". My grandfather is the origin of the rusty Jag abondoned in the paddock stories. He lived on a Farm, or Ranch as you guy's would think of it, and when he was done with a car he would simply park it in the back paddock and go buy another. Perfectly normal as far as he was concerned. Well, before he died in about 79 I was perusing the area and found what was left of a XK120, along with a Ford Model A, T and a few other's I couldn't recognise. Unfortunatly the back paddock went with the Farm so none of us ever had the presence of mind to rescue any of his old cars. Oh Well. Like the US, in the late 70's the Japs moved in with thier "Cars can be as reliable as appliances" modus operande and the Pommie Car importers all shrunk drastically. American cars were never that much of a hit down under due to the high cost of feeding, so we started out with small English cars and moved on to small Japanese cars. The Italians were there as well mind you. Fiat had rather a good run on 850's, 124's and the like. Ferrari's are there as well of course, but horendously expensive, well out of the reach of the average Australian. That's it, bye for now. Andrew. From cak Fri Mar 28 14:31:43 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA03042; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:31:40 -0800 Received: by hil-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA11020; Fri, 28 Mar 1997 17:31:07 -0500 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 17:30:41 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Britcar disease To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199703281730_MC2-136D-8119@compuserve.com> Hi all: Harold -- you da MAN! Your history of Britcar ownership must be some sort of record. Come on now... you really have a shop or dealership or something -- right? No single person has that much patience, enthusiasm, spare time, and loose cash all at once. Truly impressive. Thanks also for the description of the Mallock U2. I had never heard of this particular marque. Runs w/Lotus 23s, huh? That mean you're bringing it to the Historics? And Bob -- you certainly deserve some kind of award as well, for persistently owning French cars in the States. Check me on this. I've always thought French cars were a lot like Charles DeGaulle: in France, both make perfect sense and the cars, at least, are an absolute blast. But outside of France, both are something of an anachronism, difficult to understand, poorly supported and just, well... infuriating. Okay, one last bit of Britcar humor -- this time lifted from the somewhat cranky, slightly anachronistic LJK Setright (maybe he was French too?). Herewith, The 10 Commandments of British Car Ownership as delivered from the heights of Mount Snowden by LJKS himself, and writ on tablets made of British steel. Thou shalt have lust in thy heart only for British Vehicles. Thou shalt speak no evil of British Vehicles, except unto thyself whilst thou fixest thine own. Thou shalt deny all shortcomings and faults with thy British Vehicle, and offereth no comfort to those who wouldst profane it. Thou shalt find fault with all Vehicles of German, French, Italian, American, Swedish and Japanese origin. Thou shalt proclaim these faults loudly to all and sundry who wouldst hear thy call in the wilderness. Thou shalt keep thy British Vehicle such that it runneth and looketh its best. And thou shalt willingly sacrifice thy wife, thy children, home, friends and worldly goods to accomplisheth this Holy Task. Thou shalt honor the Saints of the British Motor Tradi.......... (The tablets stopped here, at Commandment 5 1/2. Setright at the time opined that The Higher Power must have been writing with Lucas Lightning bolts) Off to get my hands dirty on British, Japanese and Italian machinery. Dave Booth From cak Sat Mar 29 10:51:22 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01728; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 10:51:20 -0800 Received: by arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id NAA04149; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 13:50:46 -0500 Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 13:50:12 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Britcar Disease To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199703291350_MC2-1375-8827@compuserve.com> Harold's remark about the cars just following him home really brightened up my weekend. Not an easy task since chasing an A/C gremlin in my RX-7 is turning in to a real exercise in frustration. Biggest problem is that electricity and I are not friends. My wife seems to be a magnet for stray cats, so maybe there's a guy corrollary with cars and we're just good examples of it. For example, we only work half a day on Fridays, and in the insignificant span of an afternoon yesterday, was standing musing over an Alfa Giulia Sprint and another damned Jensen Healey. Both of them were decrepit, in completely different towns, and looking at one of them involved an illegal U-turn to go back. "Honest, Karen -- they called my name". The Merlyn sounds very cool. So... Monterey....how about it? Dave Booth From cak Sat Mar 29 23:06:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id XAA05244; Sat, 29 Mar 1997 23:06:44 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id CAA22377 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 02:06:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 02:06:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970330020609_-1437125306@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Britcar Disease/365GTC/4 Dave, Would love to run Monterey, but my Mallock is too new for HSMA (the group that puts on the Historics). Merlyn would work, but needs complete rebuild. Maybe Chicago Historics or Rocky Mountain. Plan to run Texas World in May. Wish we had some Ferraris around here that ran in vintage. We had a 250TDF that ran a few years ago, but he blew the engine and hasn't been back. Good luck on the Jensen/Alfa delimma...I know the feeling! By the way, Jerry Bensinger (Ferrari/race car dealer) called the other day. He has a 365GTC/4 for sale for about $25,000. It is partly restored/partly apart and missing the interior. Anyone interested, let me know and I'll look for his number. Harold Pace From cak Sun Mar 30 09:56:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01573; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 09:56:27 -0800 Received: from 204.140.219.30 (dial001w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.30]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id JAA12012 for ; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 09:56:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <333E39D8.6CA4@net-quest.com> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 10:01:00 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: Water Pipes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I pulled the radiator yesterday, out of 250GTE, for various reasons, backflush - adjust fan, play with waterpump, etc etc. and discovered a badly corroded water pipe. It's the one that has the fan temp switch attached to it along with the feed to the heater core. Well, I can call around all the sources for a second hand unit but the thought struck me about a remade/remanufactuered one. Anyone have a contact who might be able to make a reproduction ? Anyone done anything like this before ? Regards, Andrew. From cak Sun Mar 30 22:23:49 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA05242; Sun, 30 Mar 1997 22:23:46 -0800 Received: by hil-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA14739; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 01:23:13 -0500 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 01:22:53 -0500 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Repro water pipes To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199703310122_MC2-1379-EFEE@compuserve.com> Andrew's question about a repro water pipe for his GTE really touches a nerve with me. There are actually three of these steel pipes on most 128 motors: the "Christmas tree" pipe that carries the temp sender; a return pipe that runs from the back of both heads to the bottom of the Christmas tree, and a simple radiused bend down low in the system that has the drain petcock on it. They're all thinwall steel, and have obviously gotten a hell of a lot thinner since the early Sixties. Short answer to the question is that they should all be replaced with new ones. Betz & Peters, the well known collectors and restorers in Orange, Ca. can do all three. I don't mean to get off on a rant here, but if you send B&P your parts, and still plan on using your car this Summer, I would STRONGLY urge you to get a firm time commitment on completion dates from them at the outset. Reason: two months out from Monterey '94, I discovered my Christmas tree pipe on the cab leaking like a sieve. I contacted them, "yeah, sure, we've got a template, send your pipe in, we'll turn it around in two weeks.." But their two weeks slipped. And slipped some more. Each time I'd call, the reply would be, "we'll get it to you next week". But with the clock ticking down and the original pipe in their hands, I had no chance to get some shakedown time on the car. When I finally got the pipe two days before I was scheduled to set off for the Meet, and still lots of other stuff to do on the car, guess what -- the pipe was dimensionally wrong three places. Getting it jammed on half sideways consumed another day. So little surprise that about 20 miles from home, a head gasket blew and I wound up attending the meet in my RX-7. Needless to say, an extremely bitter disappointment. The identical B&P scenario happened to a friend here in SD who was doing a complete restoration on his SII cab at the same time. His on-the-road-to-Monterey shakedown revealed a faulty alternator. I lent him mine, and at least one car made the event. I'm obviously still bitter about it, mostly because it's my understanding B&P accepted a bigger-bucks job on a more prestigious car after they agreed to do our water pipes. This pill was even harder to swallow because they had my damn pipe the whole time, and obviously never checked to see if it matched their pattern. Anyhow, they can do it, but get a commitment in advance for when they're gonna be done. Harold -- thanks for your concern, but there's really no dilemma on the Alfa or the additional Jensen. Just meant as an illustration of how the damn things keep catching my eye. Will look forward to hearing about progress on the Merlyn. Best, Dave Booth From cak Sun Apr 6 11:40:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01812; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 11:40:44 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd85-019.compuserve.com [206.175.96.19]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA22603 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 11:40:38 -0700 Message-Id: <199704061840.LAA22603@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Fw: 1956 ferrari 500 mdtr Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 13:39:53 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm on a weird mailing list that originates out of the UK. I get stuff of it VERY rarely, but the attached came through today. If anyone thinks they can help, send the originator (Frank) a note. Looks like he is trying to restore a 500 TR, but I'm not sure. Regards, Bryan ---------- From: Findit To: 'cashion@sprynet.com' Subject: 1956 ferrari 500 mdtr Date: Sunday, April 06, 1997 9:29 AM This is a message from the find-ferrari list server. Please do not reply directly to this message. If you want to contact the advertiser by email use the email address if there is one in the Contact Details below Am presently restoring a 56 basket case, which nobody in America has a clue about. Need to find out where things go. Can anyone help me out ? Thanks Frank Name: Address: Tel: Fax: Email: RacerFB@msn.com url: http:// Other ads can be found at http://www.findit.co.uk/uk/cars/ferrari.htm ==================================================== email webmaster@findit.co.uk putting "unsubscribe find-ferrari" in the subject if you want to be removed from the list ==================================================== ---------- From cak Sun Apr 6 19:40:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA04185; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 19:40:35 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad46-146.compuserve.com [199.174.164.146]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA16911 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 19:40:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199704070240.TAA16911@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: 330 GT 2+2 suspension rebuild Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 21:39:05 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The mechanic that looked at 330 GT 2+2 #7775 noted that the front suspension needed a complete rebuild. Does anyone have a sense of what this might cost ... as a negotiating item om the price? Regards, Bryan From cak Sun Apr 6 22:11:27 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA04822; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 22:11:23 -0700 Received: by hil-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA15536; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 01:10:50 -0400 Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 01:09:55 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: 330 suspension rebuild To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199704070109_MC2-13DF-A6BC@compuserve.com> Bryan, I'd advise extreme caution in this area, and make damned sure the guy proposing to do the work knows exactly what he's doing. Otherwise, you'll wind up with a front end that's been shoveled back together any which way, and which will doubtless leave you worse off than when you started. While the kingpin front suspension does wear, it does so differently from other "conventional" front suspensions. The ball joints in the steering linkage definitely do wear out and can be replaced like any other car's. The front sway bar has a pair of rubber mounting bushings and a pair of linkage bushings that also wear (save the metal inner sleeve since the new bushings don't include a sleeve). The inner and outer suspension pins that carry the A-arms are virtually the only other place that wear occurs -- and almost exclusively in the outer pins. They ride in a phenolic sleeve that has grease channels machined in the inner face. Since they didn't get greased very often, the worst examples have dried out and abraded the outer suspension pins to the point where they're useless. All the usual Ferrari parts sources can readily supply the ball joints, sway bar rubber and phenolic sleeves. The pins, if they're bad, are another story. I've gone on a quest twice now to find good used ones for my cars. If the sleeves and pins are bad, it's a lot of work to replace them, and it's easy to get the job all screwed up. Reason: there are bronze shims of specific thicknesses under the ends of each A-arm -- both inner and outer. These help determine the front end alignment. Problem is that most mechanics that have never dealt with this type suspension before just take them off and throw them in a pile without noting which thickness was in what location. I've gone through the suspensions on my cars and gotten them sorta half-sorted. At least the cars will stay on the road. I'm sure that there's someone out there who knows the correct procedure for doing this and I encouraged Len Miller to include the front suspension as a section in his GTE manual, but apparently he wasn't able to find anyone to enlighten us on the topic. As to cost, tearing down a Ferrari kinpin front suspension is a very time consuming process, even when you've done it before. The tie rod ends and rubber parts in the swaybar are simple. But I'd suggest you get irrefutable visual evidence that the A-arm pins/bushings are bad before letting someone take a crack at your baby. Best, Dave Booth From cak Sun Apr 6 23:45:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id XAA05264; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 23:45:58 -0700 Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 23:45:58 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199704070645.XAA05264@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: cashion@sprynet.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 suspension rebuild I was told, during our 330 search, to figure at least $2K *in parts* to rebuild the front suspension. From cak Mon Apr 7 19:30:08 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA05052; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 19:30:06 -0700 Received: by dub-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id WAA19708; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 22:29:32 -0400 Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 22:28:45 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: $2k in parts? To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199704072229_MC2-13E8-1E87@compuserve.com> Hey Chris -- was this estimate for two thousand dollars in parts alone? American money? Don't leave us in suspenders -- what did you find on your car and what did you finally spend? I read your series on buying the 330, but don't remember any coverage of the suspension. Best, Dave Booth From cak Mon Apr 7 21:01:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA05522; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 21:01:34 -0700 Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 21:01:34 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199704080401.VAA05522@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: 104375.2245@compuserve.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: $2k in parts? Yes, the estimate was for $2K in parts alone. 9161, the car we bought, has a perfect front suspension - the fellow who maintained the car for most of its life "knew all thirteen grease points and hit them regularly", as he told me when I talked to him about the car. The $2K parts estimate was when we were looking at the earlier, black car (s/n8679). John Bagioli, who inspected it for us, told me taht the front suspension was somewhat worn and would want a rebuild, but not so badly that it had to be done immediately. He suggested gathering the parts over a couple of years, given the high cost. From cak Tue Apr 8 10:18:41 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@CompuServe.COM> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01623; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 10:18:39 -0700 Received: by dub-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id MAA14457; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 12:14:58 -0400 Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 12:14:09 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@CompuServe.COM> Subject: kingpin front suspension To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199704081214_MC2-13EF-3BDB@compuserve.com> I must be missing something. I've only done two of these suspensions -- not 20, but I got six tie rod ends, a full set of phenolic bushings, some good outer pins and new front shocks for way less than a thou. And the shocks (rebuilding the original Houdaille lever action type actually) were $450 by themselves. But as they say, "..your mileage (and your mechanic's markup) may differ.." Dave Booth From cak Sun Apr 13 14:24:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA02561; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:24:30 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd1-061.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.192.61]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA13884 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:24:20 -0700 Message-Id: <199704132124.OAA13884@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: 330 GT 2+2 S/N 8279 Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:18:56 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I looked at another 330 GT 2+2 this weekend at Ferrari of Houston. I appreciate the sounding board THIS list provides on the older cars. I hope you aren't too bored with the on-going questions and info. S/N 8279. Off-white, Single headlight. 62,000 km. Numbers match. The interior is similar to other late 2+2s with 3 air outlets on the center dashboard and the various rocker switches on the left side. You may remember that 7775 had two outlets only with the rockers in the middle. So, sometime between 7775 and 8279, they made a change to interior design. Interior is in excellent shape ... I doubt it's original. Body seems in good shape, except the paint is a little worn from being under a cover for a year. Yes, it appears not to have been run for a year...big concern. Engine oil was clean, but then any junk probably has settled out after a year. No evidence of emulsion/foam, though. Dics are heavily rusted. Likely will need turning or even relacement. Any thoughts on cost? The toolkit is there, but appears to be incomplete. Does anyone have a list of what a complete toolkit contains? Is the value of the toolkit in the tools or the case or both? Interesting other items. The car was not imported new into the US. The original US owner kept a diary which was still with the car. He brought it into Houston in Jan 72. The S/N suggests a late 66 model. I don't have the 66-72 history of the car yet, but am working in it. The present owner is not the original US owner. The car has a skid plate! It runs from underneath the transmission all the way back to just ahead of the rear axle. It has a small chute about halfway back that could either be to drain drips/leaks or to exhaust hot air, I suppose. The chute is difficult to describe, but the venturi effect on it at speed would pull air out from between the plate and the car. Under side is heavily undercoated. I can't tell if it's original or a cover-up; although the undercoating seems cracked and old. That doesn't mean much I suppose. The car has A/C. Sid Simpson (FoH) remembers installing it when he had his own shop. The compressor sits on the right side just ahead of the fender. The left side oil filter is not mounted in parallel with the right side, as on all other 330s I've seen. The alternator is on the left side and the belts would interfere with the oil filter if the latter was on the left front of the engine. For those of you with 250/330 engines, where does your alternator mount? We couldn't start the car. The clutch pedal went to the floor, the brake pedal didn't move at all (remember the discs), and the battery was dead. I'll call them Monday or Tuesday and will see what it will take to start it. I'm a bit concerned about starting a car that hasn't run in a year, but assume the dealer will know how to manage that. More to come, if you want. Regards, Bryan From cak Sun Apr 13 15:39:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA02876; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:39:23 -0700 Received: from 204.140.219.46 (dial017w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.46]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id PAA24564 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:39:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3350F138.1BDD@net-quest.com> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:44:11 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 S/N 8279 References: <199704132124.OAA13884@m1.sprynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bryan Cashion wrote: > > > Interior is in excellent shape ... I doubt it's original. > > Body seems in good shape, except the paint is a little worn from being > under a cover for a year. Yes, it appears not to have been run for a > year...big concern. Engine oil was clean, but then any junk probably has > settled out after a year. No evidence of emulsion/foam, though. Frozen disks, won't start, are you sure it was only a year. What was coolant like, rusty etc.. > > The toolkit is there, but appears to be incomplete. Does anyone have a > list of what a complete toolkit contains? Is the value of the toolkit in > the tools or the case or both? I've been told up to $1500.00, but then again I've seen bit's and pecies to make a complete one for the 250 for about $500.00 > The car has a skid plate! It runs from underneath the transmission all the > way back to just ahead of the rear axle. It has a small chute about > halfway back that could either be to drain drips/leaks or to exhaust hot > air, I suppose. The chute is difficult to describe, but the venturi effect > on it at speed would pull air out from between the plate and the car. > This sounds like the belly pan on the 250's. Original. > For those of you with 250/330 engines, where does > your alternator mount? > Passenger side. On another note, thank's for the photo's of 7775. Did you drive that car, how much did they want for it. Regard's, Andrew. From cak Mon Apr 14 14:46:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA02914; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:46:58 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:46:58 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199704142146.OAA02914@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: cashion@sprynet.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 330 GT 2+2 S/N 8279 There should be a full belly pan - it's thin aluminum unsuitable foruse as a skid plate! It's there for aero purposes. There should also be a detachable panel that extends the lower front valence across the bottom of the radiator, for the same reason. Pininfarina spent a lot of wind tunnel time on this model to get the top speed up. It sounds like the car was not run for more than a year, or was stored in bad conditions. The rotors should not rust that quickly. Rotors are apparently hard to come by and *expensive*. The a/c installation moves the alternator to the driver's side, near the fuel filter bowl and power steering pump (if it has ps). 9161 left the factory October 25 1966. It's highly unlikely that 8279 left late in '66. The value of the toolkit is in both the pouch/pouches and the tools. 9161 has a late ("a 330 GT shouldn't have that") toolkit that has a separate jack bag and tool roll, similar to what many 330GTCs \ shipped with. I don't have the contents burned into my head any more. I *do* know that the contents that are listed at the last page of the spare parts book is nothing close to what came with our car. We are missing a few items, and I have augmented our setup as well. Basically there should be jack, wheel chock, spare light bulb set, extra belt(s), Pirelli tread depth indicator. Three or four screwdrivers, grease gun, grease gun flexible extension, grease gun extension to lube the U joint behind the gearbox, 500g hammer, pliers, Weber jet tool, spark plug wrench of some sort (varied *widely*) set of wrenches (probably Beta No. 55) covering roughly 8mm-22mm. Oh yeah, knockoff hammer, too. From cak Mon Apr 14 18:41:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA04269; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:41:47 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd80-079.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.190.79]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA20402 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:41:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199704150141.SAA20402@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: S/N 8279 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 20:40:03 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all for the info. In particular, I learned about the belly pan, which is obviously not that unusual. Pardon my ignorance. On a separate matter. I bought Prunet's book over the weekend "Ferrari: The Road Cars" published 1980 (1981 in the US). Does anyone know if there is a later version? None of my literature sources reference anything other than the above first edition. Regards, Bryan From cak Mon Apr 14 19:38:16 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA04515; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:38:14 -0700 Received: by hil-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id WAA11342; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:37:41 -0400 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:37:01 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: 330 once-over To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199704142236_MC2-144D-F264@compuserve.com> Bryan: I missed the start of this odyssey somehow, but would add this small piece of info for your consideration. If the brake pedal won't budge, it's got nothing to do with rusty rotors, which are quite hard btw, and should machine up clean with no problem. You've got very rusty caliper assemblies, or a very rusty master cylinder, or in all probability both. That lovely Houston climate would be the culprit. Rebuild parts can be found, and a number of competent firms can sleeve the cylinder bores with brass or stainless (White Post did a nice job on mine), but be prepared for some nasty, dirty, very un-sexy work ahead. And since you're down there and all dirty anyway, you might as well pull the hubs and check/re-pack the wheel bearings; take a good look-see for any play in the upper and lower kingpin mounts and the steering tie rods. And pretty soon, you've done a vintage Ferrari front end! Best, Dave Booth From cak Tue Apr 15 12:43:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA02331; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:43:23 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA25241 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:42:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199704151942.OAA25241@dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com> Received: from bal-md5-22.ix.netcom.com(199.183.205.182) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id smaa25199; Tue Apr 15 14:42:38 1997 Subject: Re: S/N 8279 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 15:43:04 -0400 From: Bruce Rippey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Bryan wrote: >On a separate matter. I bought Prunet's book over the weekend "Ferrari: >The Road Cars" published 1980 (1981 in the US). Does anyone know if there >is a later version? None of my literature sources reference anything other >than the above first edition. Prunet wrote another reference published in 1988 by Motorbooks International entitled "Fantastic Ferraris." It details (with beautiful photographs) many racing and race car-inspired models. -Bruce From cak Tue Apr 15 17:15:13 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA00966; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:15:07 -0700 Received: by arl-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id UAA14247; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:14:26 -0400 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:13:22 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Bryan's 330 SII To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199704152013_MC2-145B-E1A8@compuserve.com> So Bryan: Whaddya gonna do? How much are they asking, and how much will a pessimistic appraisal said loudly in front of the sales people affect the quoted price? Meaning: how motivated are they to move on the price, whatever it may be. We didn't talk about the clutch yesterday, but there's a master and a slave cylinder that are no doubt responsible for the pedal going straight to the floor. Rebuildable and re-sleevable, of course, just like the brake system. But more work and expense, though not major. I'm definitely in favor of getting directly, mechanically involved in one's cars, but that's not everyone's cup 'o mud. And if it's not yours, relatively simple stuff like this can get expensive quick. If you've never read Chris K's series on buying his 330, it's a really telling look into what these cars can demand of an involved owner, even when they seem basically sound at the beginning. Regards, Dave Booth From cak Tue Apr 15 19:52:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA01669; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:52:14 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd70-198.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.250.198]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA22007; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:52:08 -0700 Message-ID: <33543E81.5D8@sprynet.com> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:50:41 -0500 From: Bryan Cashion Reply-To: cashion@sprynet.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> CC: vintage Ferrari list Subject: Re: Bryan's 330 SII References: <199704152013_MC2-145B-E1A8@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David: the dealer is supposed to get a technician (= mechanic) to look at the car and see what it will take to get it started and running. The owner has moved to Arizona and the dealer is less than keen on getting into the car seriously. I can understand this...he isn't going to make much, possibly nothing, on the car, especially compared to profit on a new 355, so he's putting his efforts where they add the most value (in the short term anyway). This could work both ways, of course. He may willing to accept almost anything to clear the inventory. However, my sense is that that the dealer has little flexibility, i.e. he will pass anything I suggest on to the owner for go/no-go. The opportunity here is that the drive train is in good shape even given the long deadtime, the owner is eager to sell, and the car has some unique character. The last is less important than the first two! I would actually like a car that I could work on, within reason. I've worked on BMWs and Porsches (is there a pattern there...) which I've owned. I think the only thing about a Ferrari that would 'scare' me is the engine itself. Carbs, suspension, etc are not a problem if I can get good drawings and information. One barrier is specialty tools ... I have plenty of wrenches, screwdrivers, gear pullers, etc, but if the master and slave cyliners on a Ferrari take a special tool that's difficult to find, then that's a different story. Pulling the cylinders and sending them off is "do-able" though. The owner was asking $40k, which even the dealer said was ridiculous. I have a reasonable sense of the market, uisng FML and the Internet. I need to know more about the history, as well as present status before I make a decision. As Harold knows, I've been at this a while. I prefer to get a car in running condition with only odds and ends to be fixed up, but wouldn't turn down a gift! What else would y'all recommend I check on the engine (or the car itself) besides compression and leak-down? David Booth wrote: > > So Bryan: > > Whaddya gonna do? > > How much are they asking, and how much will a pessimistic appraisal said > loudly in front of the sales people affect the quoted price? Meaning: how > motivated are they to move on the price, whatever it may be. > > We didn't talk about the clutch yesterday, but there's a master and a slave > cylinder that are no doubt responsible for the pedal going straight to the > floor. Rebuildable and re-sleevable, of course, just like the brake > system. But more work and expense, though not major. > > I'm definitely in favor of getting directly, mechanically involved in one's > cars, but that's not everyone's cup 'o mud. And if it's not yours, > relatively simple stuff like this can get expensive quick. > > If you've never read Chris K's series on buying his 330, it's a really > telling look into what these cars can demand of an involved owner, even > when they seem basically sound at the beginning. > > Regards, > Dave Booth From cak Wed Apr 16 19:41:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA04289; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:41:38 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd1-250.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.192.250]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA16559 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:41:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199704170241.TAA16559@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: New Ferrari register Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:37:51 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The latest FML has an ad for a new Ferrari Register out of Germany. This is trying to be the ultimate register, it appears. The ad reads Auto Avio Costruzioni 815 - Ferrari 550 Maranello all 223 types with technical data listings are by type and by serial numbers 25000 serial numbers, 70000 entries three volume book, 1900 pages limited edition of 1000 DM 890 (includes postage) (That's about $500). If anyone wants the address, it is: Michael Graf, Erikastrasse 12 D-85598, Baldham, Germany phone 1728416048 (I'm not sure of Germay's country code) Regards, Bryan From cak Wed Apr 16 19:41:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA04290; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:41:38 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd1-250.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.192.250]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA16523 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:41:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199704170241.TAA16523@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Ferrari engine for sale Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:30:21 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To plagiarize a famous golfer "This is a market with which I am not familiar." Michael Sheehan is selling JUST the engine from TR 0770, which the factory raced in 59/60. The asking price is $245,000 Regards, Bryan From cak Wed Apr 16 21:39:36 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA04992; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:39:35 -0700 Received: by arl-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA17098; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:39:02 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:38:17 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: motor prices To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199704170037_MC2-146E-E33B@compuserve.com> A quarter of a mil for the engine seems a little steep, yeah? Fred Petroske who has a garage called Mostly British on the east coast someplace has been running an ad in Hemmings for a few months advertising a parts from a GTE and a 330 2+2 he's breaking up, and he wants $20k for the GTE motor, although it is purported to have been rebuilt and never installed. When you consider what complete, quality examples of both cars are selling for today, I guess it just adds credence to what people have always said about Ferraris -- they're primarily an engine. Dave Booth From cak Thu Apr 17 08:08:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA01401; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:08:36 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:08:36 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199704171508.IAA01401@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Bryan's 330 SII Pedal to the floor means a blown seal somewhere, probably in the master. Given the general condition you describe, I'd be suspicious of *all* the hydraulics - for a Britcar, I'd plan to rebuild them all; for a Ferrari, I'd plan to resleeve them all, including the calipers. No idea what the costs are these days, but call White Post and see. The nice thing about WP is their lifetime guarantee - if it starts leaking, ever, just sendit back. From cak Thu Apr 17 20:47:57 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA05305; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 20:47:55 -0700 Received: by hil-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA28500; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:47:22 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:46:31 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Ferrari on Rodeo To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199704172345_MC2-147D-FDAD@compuserve.com> Hi gang: Anybody on the newsgroup going to be at Ferrari On Rodeo this Saturday? As you probably know, this even has become a favorite for Ferrari North America to use as a background for the US intro of new production cars. This year, they are unveiling the 550 Maranello. Probably more interesting to the faithful on this group, the event pulls a steadily increasing selection of really choice vintage Ferraris. The organizers block off 2-3 blocks of Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills and park the cars for easy viewing. The automotive turnout is boosted by Fossil Motorsports, Tillack & Co. and sometimes Betz & Peters bringing some of their rarified early racing and road cars. Best of all, it doesn't cost a cent. Happens from 10 'til 4 this Saturday. Only the two Europeans have a valid excuse for not being there! Best, Dave Booth From cak Thu Apr 17 21:48:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA05602; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:48:20 -0700 Received: from 204.140.219.49 (dial020w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.49]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id VAA00822 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:48:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3356FE21.1B2@net-quest.com> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:52:54 -0700 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: 550 Intro, yep, not vintage related post. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dudes, Anybody going to the Ferrari thing in Beverly Hills this weekend. I'm going, here's just the facts. Saturday April 19th, Rodeo Drive It's the 550 introduction. All cars in place by 9.30AM Older cars closest to Santa Monica. 170 cars total, through all years. First road car ever sold will be there 5 GTE's, (sorry that's all I asked about) Free. Various vendors all taking credit cards for stuff. I'll have a Camera, and also have a scanner, any requests. That's about it. Later, Andrew. From cak Fri Apr 18 00:37:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id AAA06499; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:37:25 -0700 Received: by INET-03-IMC with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.14) id ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:37:38 -0700 Message-ID: <1B2056104081CF11914400805F68CC1704072D80@RED-05-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> From: Jeff Littrell To: "'abrent@net-quest.com'" , "Vintage V12 list." Subject: RE: 550 Intro, yep, not vintage related post. Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:36:14 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.14) I'll be there (and at the Peterson for the FNA party). My car is a red 365 GTC/4, lic V12 FUN. > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Brent [SMTP:abrent@net-quest.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 17, 1997 9:53 PM > To: Vintage V12 list. > Subject: 550 Intro, yep, not vintage related post. > > Hi Dudes, > > Anybody going to the Ferrari thing in Beverly Hills > this weekend. I'm going, here's just the facts. > > Saturday April 19th, > Rodeo Drive > It's the 550 introduction. > All cars in place by 9.30AM > Older cars closest to Santa Monica. > 170 cars total, through all years. > First road car ever sold will be there > 5 GTE's, (sorry that's all I asked about) > Free. > Various vendors all taking credit cards for stuff. > I'll have a Camera, and also have a scanner, any requests. > > That's about it. > > Later, > > Andrew. From cak Fri Apr 18 21:58:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA11416; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 21:58:33 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 21:58:33 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199704190458.VAA11416@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: 104375.2245@compuserve.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Ferrari on Rodeo We got an invitation, but we won't be there - too much travelling these past two weeks already. From cak Sat Apr 19 13:36:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02486; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:36:34 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:36:34 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199704192036.NAA02486@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: 104375.2245@compuserve.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: motor prices It's 1/10th of the cost of a finished car - I don't think that's really out of line, given the rarity. Unfortunately, it's enough money that the owner of 0770 can't reunite the pieces. From cak Sun Apr 20 11:48:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01948; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 11:48:17 -0700 Received: from grossier-ip (actually remote-acc-35.unil.ch) by unilmta3.unil.ch with SMTP inbound; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 20:48:05 +0200 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970420184959.0069f338@pop-server.unil.ch> X-Sender: grossier@pop-server.unil.ch X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 20:49:59 +0200 To: ferrari-vintage From: Greg Subject: Cavallino Hi gang Here is one of the 2 Europeans that have the excuse for not going to Rodeo. What lucky you are.... Has someone of you some issues of Cavallino to sell ? I wanted to subscribe, but for Europa the air mail was more expensive than the issue itself and it is very difficult to find them in Switzerland. So, if I can buy several issues at the same time, I pay only one transport. Please, a lot of details about Rodeo of this week end. Cheers. Greg From cak Mon Apr 21 22:01:32 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA05898; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 22:01:30 -0700 Received: by arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA01030; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 01:00:55 -0400 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 00:59:38 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Ferrari On Rodeo To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199704220059_MC2-14B1-7D67@compuserve.com> Hi guys: Since some of you were genuinely unable to make the Ferrari On Rodeo event this past Saturday and might enjoy a couple of highlights, I'll pass them on for what they're worth. Having done this reportage stuff for a living in what now seems like a previous lifetime, I'm hesitant to try to do this marvelous event anything like its true justice. And in the case of old Ferraris (and old Ferrari guys?), doing it poorly is worse than not doing it at all. The report in Cavallino will be accurate, exhaustive and just plain better. But you'll have to wait two months to see it. So why not give it a whack? This may have been the best F.O.R. event of the three I've attended. In some ways, it may even be better that Concours Italiano -- and it's a lot cheaper. Seemed to me that there was a more representative cross-section of Ferrari road and racing machinery than ever before, and some really rare cars turned up. To wit: * Betz & Peters brought the unrestored 375 America one-off #0355AL, built by Pinin Farina for Giovanni Agnelli in 1955 and shown at the Turin Show that year. With its blue paint coming off in big flakes, and that huge Lampredi 12 crowding the engine bay, it was a real head-turner (see Fitzgerald & Merritt pg. 46). * Symbolic Motors brought the ex-Ernie McAfee 121 LM (4.4 liter six ! ) in which McAfee lost his life -- but beautifully restored and painted a light blue. * the very first Ferrari (maybe? see the current issue of Forza) -- a 1947 Sypder Corsa, s/n 010I (probably the original 01C) wearing cycle fender bodywork. * The Series I cabriolet prototype s/n 0655, built for the '57 Geneva Show, and later owned by F1 team driver Peter Collins. You know, the SI cab with the big cutout in the driver's door? The one Collins supposedly had the team mechanics graft his Jag sedan's Girling disc brakes onto? It was parked next to a later sister SI -- both looking resplendent in black lacquer and easily gorgeous enough to make your correspondent go a little watery in the knees. * One of the just fourteen 365 Californias produced, beautiful in plum-colored paint with tan leather. * One of the much maligned 330 2+2 Series I quad-headlight cars -- very pretty in silver and red. First one I'd ever seen close up, and I don't quite get what all the fuss was about. * A nice cross section of 275 GTBs and 330 GTCs, but also one each of the 275 GTS and 330 GTS. * Two of the ten 275 GTS4 NART Spyders as seen on the cover of the last Cavallino, brought by San Diego Padres owner John Moores ("...I love you, man..."). When have you EVER seen one of these cars? * Some very nice 330 2+2 Series II cars, and an absolutely immaculate (are you listening Len? )red with tan '60 250 GTE. * A pair of Series II cabs, one a former San Diego car fresh off a restoration and now living on Long Island; and the other an unrestored original Southern California car brought by Douglas Curran, who learned how to drive in it. * A lovely 212 Vignale brought by newsgroup member Tom Shaughnessey. * A beautifully turned-out 365 GTC4 brought by newsgroup member Jeff Littrell. * And for those who also love the current stuff, everything from 355 Spyders and Berlinettas, to a 456 coupe, an F50 and the piece de resistance, two 550 Maranellos. Seeing these cars -- old and new -- in the metal, reinforces the fact that even the best photographs simply fail to do these cars justice. Any of them -- oldest to newest. There's just a rightness about their lines that makes sense. The 550 Maranello is a bigger car than it seems in the pictures, with a subdued, flowing elegance that makes swoopy lines seem unnecessary. And of course for sheer entertainment value, it's hard to beat a Beverly Hills crowd. The people who really have money; the people working real hard in hopes everyone will think they have money; and the others who don't care either way. Maybe some of you caught the brief piece on this event on the TV show Entertainment Tonight this evening. They even had about a two-second glimpse of some cars! As if seeing Jerry Seinfeld move down the street in the midst of a crowd of people was the reason any of us True Car Guys actually went to this affair. Sorry more of you couldn't be there. Cheers, Dave Booth From cak Wed Apr 23 13:57:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02962; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:57:35 -0700 Received: from grossier-ip (actually remote-acc-12.unil.ch) by unilmta3.unil.ch with SMTP inbound; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:57:16 +0200 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970423205921.0069b6f4@pop-server.unil.ch> X-Sender: grossier@pop-server.unil.ch X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:59:21 +0200 To: ferrari-vintage From: Greg Subject: Re: 250 GTE auth... and s.2 prototipos At 04,27 9.02.97 +0200, you wrote: >> Fitsgerald and Merritt have pictures and indicate that the difference >> between first prototype (as shown at Le Mans '60) and the second was that >> the second had headlight bezels, functional louvers behind the rear seat >> side windows, and the small lights on the side of the front fenders that >> blinked along with the turn indicator lights on the front. The third >> prototype did not have the louvers but doesn't appear much different >> otherwise. The production model did add louvers on the front fender. None >> of the cars in the F&M pictures have mirrors! That surprised me ... my >> memory of the LM car did have fender mirrors. > >Initially I meant the later prototipos for 1962 series 2 version of GTE, >but these very first prototipos manufactured between may 1959 and june 1960 >are actually far more interesting... > >Let me add and correct few things, if you don't mind: > >The silver car with c-pillar louvers (1287) was the first prototipo. >It had no front fender louvres to start with, but they were later >added and the c-pillar louvres had vanished in the meantime. I am >99% positive that David Owen's "Ferrari 4-seaters; 1960 on" shows a >picture of this car in revised form. It has those chrome rings around >its headlights no other early car to my knowledge had and the picture >even shows the visible vent window hinge unseen on any other GTE! > >Next two cars were 1895 and 1903. > >1895 went to Le Mans and had no louvers to start with - I don't know >if they were added later as I have never seen another picture of this >example. > >1903 was used for advertising: I'm positive it didn't have the >front wing louvres to start with either, but 14 louvres were cut >directly to the front wing before sales brochure pictures were taken. >Pininfarina is said to have considered the louvres to be a very >essential element in the final styling, so it is possible that he >had them added before any advertising pictures were shot - he was a >perfectionist - at least he said so himself... > >This is all clear, but then Stan Nowak's Appendix lists 1507GT as a >reported GTE prorotipo. What might this be? 1287 renumbered in its >revised form or a simple misunderstanding? >-- >Son 09-02-97 00:52 3.840 kg 52 cm > > Hi all Better late than never...I am reading Prunet's book "Les Ferrari de route et de reve" (I do not have the translation for the title). Arrived at 250 GTE proto section (pictures and description but without S/N), I remembered there was on Ferrari Vintage List a discussion concerning 250 GTE. Prunet describes proto 1 with same characteristics as described by Kare, a picture confirms. He describes some characteristics of proto 2 : side turn indicator, obligatory in Italy from 1960; no chrome ring around headlights; a modified rear boot in its superior part to let space to the fuel "filler trap?" and some -difficult to translate- Snap extractors built on the 4 "gas exits?", as in competition berlinettas. The side pictures shows that there is no louvres on the front wings and unfortunately the picture is in b/w, but the car should be in white or in a very pale color. This proto 2 could be the Nowak's S/N 1507GT? The "LeMans" proto is often considered as the first proto, because the other 2 had never been seen in public and served to development. I think there were at that time less photograps always ready to take pictures of prototypes on the road, that's why the "LeMans" proto was a surprise when presented to the public. Prunet claims that the LeMans 60 pace car was proto 3, w/o louvres. He says that louvres on front wings will appear only on the next proto that seems to be white (certainely S/N 1903GT) and this car was used for the pictures of the first sales catalogue. As Kare says, it may have no louvres at the beginning, I don't know. This may be gives some precisions concerning S/N 1507GT, but as I am absolutely not an expert of GTE, I let the specialist give an opinion. I apologize for my very bad english langage. Cheers, Greg From cak Wed Apr 23 19:52:23 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA04719; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:52:22 -0700 Received: by hil-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id WAA01488; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:51:46 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:50:49 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: referral To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199704232250_MC2-14DA-350A@compuserve.com> Hi guys: In doing a test test-surf of the Infoseek search engine last night, I happened across an article on the history and origins of Enzo's use of the prancing horse emblem written by this group's very own Jeff Littrell. I thought it was interesting and well researched, since it brought to the fore some previously unknown characters and influences in this often-told tale. You can find it at www.bossnet.com/~iwyatt/ferrari/horse.htm So Jeff: what exactly is bossnet, and why ain't you writing more on this group? I'll gladly post less if the traffic at this site picks up a bit. Best, Dave Booth From cak Wed Apr 23 21:58:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA05385; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:58:49 -0700 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:58:49 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199704240458.VAA05385@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: 104375.2245@compuserve.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: referral Ah, ancient history. Is there an article there about Ferrari engines that I wrote, too? In the beginning, the first Ferrari web site was started by our own Ryan Snodgrass, who "mostly liked the new V8 cars but was willing to learn about the 12s" Grin. Lots of people jumped on board and contributed photos and articles. Ryan collected a bunch of stuff and entered an agreement of sorts to develop a web site for FNA (hmm, they never did go on line, did they?) At some point, FNA got into a hissy fit and insisted that Ryan shut down his site, and he complied. Before doing so, this wyatt character grabbed all the files. Shortly after Ryan shut FerrariNet down, Wyatt put up his site, which had all the FerrariNet content, with a slightly different background, and (most important) all the copyrights changed to point to him instead of the original author. It took me being particularly nasty on the Ferrari mailing list to get him to do something about shutting the site down. Yuck. Which reminds me, Ryan, are you still interested in running something off dimebank.com? It's only a 28.8 link, and sometimes I get annoyed about the bursts of people grabbing stuff interfering with my interactive response, but I can live with it... From cak Thu Apr 24 16:26:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA03598; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:26:10 -0700 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id CAA128650 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 02:26:05 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id CAA22814 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 02:26:05 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199704242326.CAA22814@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: This and that... To: ferrari-vintage Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 02:26:04 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Since some of you were genuinely unable to make the Ferrari On Rodeo event > this past Saturday and might enjoy a couple of highlights, I'll pass them > on for what they're worth. Great effort, Dave - I could almost smell an old Ferrari there... > Seeing these cars -- old and new -- in the metal, reinforces the fact that > even the best photographs simply fail to do these cars justice. Any of Isn't it funny how most of them look so much bigger and heavier in the pictures...? > I'll gladly post less if the traffic at this site picks up a bit. It almost makes one hope that it doesn't - if that will keep you going... Actually one question comes to mind: I finally contacted a Finnish fellow GTE-owner (owned his car since 1978) and he told me that he drives his car quite rarely as the engine smokes a bit. I know this is a quite commonly discussed matter, but I still thought it might prove useful to ask your opinion... He said that the smoke is more excessive on the right cylinder bank and he's a bit worried that driving it might harm the cylinder rings - they might get stuck if too much oil gets into the cylinder... Now I remember reading that smoke most likely is due to worn _exhaust_ valve guides so no harm could actually be expected - if the smoke itself doesn't start annoying... Or is it likely that both inlet and exhaust valve guides let the oil into the fumes? (I never asked what type of oil he uses, now I came to think about it...) He also agreed with me that doing the heads is not very big effort as the car otherwise is a very nice restored example - and that he might just do that in the near future... From cak Thu Apr 24 16:40:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA03663; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:40:17 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:40:17 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199704242340.QAA03663@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: This and that... "Common knowledge" says that there are two different conditions that lead to smoke. Smoke under hard acceleration is typically caused by piston ring leakage (blowby) - either the blowby is churning the oil vapor in the crankcase and pushing it into the intake (if you have some sort of PCV system) or the suction on the intake stroke is pulling oil vapor up past the rings. Smoke at idle or smoke when starting off is usually from oil pooling around the valve guides and dribbling into the combustion chamber. In a V-12, the exhaust guides are lower than the intakes, and are often sitting in a pool of oil, which is why they are listed as the likely culprit. Oil sneaks down the guide into the combustion chamber and gets burned. From cak Thu Apr 24 20:52:56 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA04900; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:52:54 -0700 Received: by dub-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA25967; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 23:52:21 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 23:51:30 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Kare's Komments To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199704242350_MC2-1561-C15A@compuserve.com> Hi Y'all: Thanks for your kind comments, Kare. And about that smell... you know, I really noticed a distinctive aroma at F.O.R. Saturday. Was it my allergies playing tricks, or did the other guys on the group notice it too? It seemed strongest up the hill around the older cars. But since they're virtually all restored, I'm guessing it was a combination of leather, oil,carnauba, exhaust, and some weird pheromones peculiar to Ferraris? Opinions? Opinions also on why so few photographs of Ferraris in general really convey the loveliness of the lines? I was a working photographer myself for some years, and my guess is that unlike the human form, a car's physical dimensions are so much deeper that the conversion of a Ferrari into a two-dimensional form robs it of it's depth and keeps the brain from appreciating it fully. Inadequately phrased I know, but maybe? Apologies for totally forgetting to mention another very significant car in attendance in Beverly Hills: the only Ferrari 340 Mexico roadster ever produced. Saw this one in Monterey in '95 at the debut of the Bentley something-or-other, but somehow didn't think it was a Southern California car. Echoing Chris' comments about smoking, the early bronze valve guides are supposedly the culprit the majority of the time. A definitive fix has been worked out for years, though. The later 330-series guide, combined with a valve stem seal can be retrofitted to the 250 heads with some relatively simple machining that was promulgated by FAF Motorcars in the late Seventies, and is reproduced in Len's GTE handbook. Re Bossnet: no, I didn't see an engine article by Chris K. out there, but I didn't test-surf Infoseek deeper than a couple hundred hits. I've always felt it was a real shame that Ryan got bullied into shutting down FerrariNet. I thought it was a real landmark effort -- particularly with the great photo posts. So what exactly was FNA's beef, and how do other sites avoid the hassle? See ya, Dave Booth From cak Thu Apr 24 21:16:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA05121; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:16:25 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 21:16:25 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199704250416.VAA05121@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: 104375.2245@compuserve.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: That smell I'm pretty sure I touched on this in the series on buying. After we looked at the first (black) 330, Pat said something about "it smelled right". I didn't really know what she meant, but I figured it out after a couple more cars. There *is* a smell, and it's unique to Ferrari. All my old cars smell, each a little different, none like a Ferrari. I've identified several notes: fuel, oil, leather, mildew (sometimes), wood, and most importantly, just a touch of exhaust... From cak Fri Apr 25 16:03:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA03454; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:03:13 -0700 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id CAA94412 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 02:03:07 +0300 Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id CAA04923 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 02:03:07 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id CAA149138 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 02:02:42 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id CAA04905 for kpietila; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 02:02:41 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199704252302.CAA04905@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: Impressions... To: vintage-ferrari Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 01:58:57 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: kpietila@cc.hut.fi > virtually all restored, I'm guessing it was a combination of leather, > oil,carnauba, exhaust, and some weird pheromones peculiar to Ferraris? > Opinions? I've always had this strange feeling that old Ferraris smell... just beutiful. It must be the smell of leather combined with the smell of gasoline, grease, oil, fumes - and then there is this Enzo thing - the chromed horse on the nose just leads ones imagination into a certain direction... Every time I sit into our car I have to take a firm grip of that Nardi wheel, close my eyes and inhale the spirit - I hate to get back into reality after doing that... > Opinions also on why so few photographs of Ferraris in general really > convey the loveliness of the lines? I was a working photographer myself I tend to believe that it isnt often enough we see these cars to really get used to their lines - I know many beutiful cars that look just right in the photographs, but then again they are cars that I used to see regularly parked in the alley... Every time I go to see our GTE I have to wonder how tiny it is after all... In the pictures it looks huge - not like it is in reality - a small, beutifully designed little gem... Then again some of the designs seem to be especially difficult for photographers - even more difficult for the modelmakers... Take 275 GTB for instance - in most pictures it looks almost funny, then some - very few pictures manage to make it look just right. I've never seen a model that would look even nice, let alone correct... One of my favourite toy cars is an old "Siku" interpretation of 275 GTB in the "Hot Wheels"-scale and I must say that the Germans could not have done it more wrong. Its lines resemble the lightness of an American station wagon of the late 80's... From cak Fri Apr 25 16:38:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA03627; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:38:36 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd54-185.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.234.185]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA27170; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:38:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199704252338.QAA27170@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Chris Kantarjiev" , <104375.2245@compuserve.com>, Subject: Re: That smell Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:30:22 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know people talk about the particular smell of the exhaust from a Castrol lubricated car. I don't know that smell, but am wondering if something similar happens in the older Ferraris, e.g the factory cut a deal for a special oil with someone, maybe Agip that just turned out to smell differenly. Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: Chris Kantarjiev > To: 104375.2245@compuserve.com; ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: Re: That smell > Date: Thursday, April 24, 1997 11:16 PM > > I'm pretty sure I touched on this in the series on buying. After > we looked at the first (black) 330, Pat said something about "it > smelled right". I didn't really know what she meant, but I figured > it out after a couple more cars. > > There *is* a smell, and it's unique to Ferrari. All my old cars smell, > each a little different, none like a Ferrari. I've identified several > notes: fuel, oil, leather, mildew (sometimes), wood, and most > importantly, just a touch of exhaust... From cashion@sprynet.com Tue Apr 29 05:02:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id EAA07161; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 04:53:55 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hdn98-138.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.102.138]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id EAA04571 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 04:53:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199704291153.EAA04571@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: 330 2+2 7775 redux Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 06:50:09 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You may remember the thread from a few weeks ago on S/N 7775, a 330 2+2 that I looked that was in porety good shape, except cosmetics and the front end. I got the mechanics report on the engine. He says it's got equal compression across all cylinders at 75 psi. This struck me as low considering the compression ratio. His comment was that the engine had only 3-4,000 miles since the rebuild and the rings might not be set in yet. In your opinions, would this be true or would you expect the compression to be 120-140 psi after 3-4,000 miles? Regards, Bryan From cak Tue Apr 29 10:09:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01788; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:09:40 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:09:40 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199704291709.KAA01788@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: cashion@sprynet.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 330 2+2 7775 redux Seems like an expensive gamble to me. Get him to do a leakdown test to confirm that the leakage is past the rings and not the valves; that should increase your comfort level. But I think I'd want to build a cushion into the price, just in case you have to pull htat engine apart to make it right. This car seems like a lot of trouble - are you sure you don't just want to pass on it? From cak Tue Apr 29 18:53:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA04717; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:53:27 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA15072 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:52:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199704300152.UAA15072@dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com> Received: from bal-md4-23.ix.netcom.com(199.183.205.151) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id smab14900; Tue Apr 29 20:52:07 1997 Subject: Re: 330 2+2 7775 redux Date: Tue, 29 Apr 97 21:53:09 -0400 From: Bruce Rippey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Bryan Cashion wrote: >You may remember the thread from a few weeks ago on S/N 7775, a 330 2+2 >that I looked that was in porety good shape, except cosmetics and the front >end. I got the mechanics report on the engine. He says it's got equal >compression across all cylinders at 75 psi. This struck me as low >considering the compression ratio. His comment was that the engine had >only 3-4,000 miles since the rebuild and the rings might not be set in yet. > In your opinions, would this be true or would you expect the compression >to be 120-140 psi after 3-4,000 miles? You might try squirting some oil into one cylinder and re-measuring compression. If the pressure is significantly higher than when dry, the rings are involved. If not, they aren't. A leak-down test as previously suggested may be more informative in the latter case, although if the compression on all cylinders is consistent as reported, it does sound like a ring problem. Also, do your "dry" test with the throttle wide open (but be careful that you don't pump too much raw fuel into the cylinder). -Bruce From cak Tue Apr 29 19:00:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA04781; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:00:33 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:00:33 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199704300200.TAA04781@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: brippey@ix.netcom.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 330 2+2 7775 redux although if the compression on all cylinders is consistent as reported, it does sound like a ring problem. True enough. But is it a ring problem that will go away? After 3000 miles, I wqould expect the rings to be well sealed; certainly more than 75psi worth (though those numbers are always tricky to interpret). I would be worried that something was done fundamentally wrong in the prep, and that the rings will *never* seal unless the engine is opened up again. For example, running new rings on synthetic oil is known to inhibit sealing the rings, but that's reversible. Was the hone done properly? There's no way to know this stuff...at least not without spending more money. From cak Tue Apr 29 18:53:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA04715; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:53:23 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA15047 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:52:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199704300152.UAA15047@dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com> Received: from bal-md4-23.ix.netcom.com(199.183.205.151) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma014900; Tue Apr 29 20:51:56 1997 Subject: Re: That smell Date: Tue, 29 Apr 97 21:52:58 -0400 From: Bruce Rippey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Bryan Cashion said: >I know people talk about the particular smell of the exhaust from a Castrol >lubricated car. I don't know that smell, but am wondering if something >similar happens in the older Ferraris, e.g the factory cut a deal for a >special oil with someone, maybe Agip that just turned out to smell >differenly. The sweet and distinct smell of castor oil was a common one at race tracks in years past when it was the cutting edge of lubricants. The odor was positively intoxicating. It's still available (in the US at least) as Castrol R, but I believe the API doesn't even rate it. It still smells great, but lubricant technology has come so far nowadays that to use it in a modern car might be detrimental (just an opinion). At the vintage races you can occasionally catch a whiff of its fragrance - it's definitely one of those smells that gives us fogeys an instant flashback to prior race memories... -Bruce From cak Tue Apr 29 20:01:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA05096; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:01:08 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad74-072.compuserve.com [199.174.200.72]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA09858; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:01:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199704300301.UAA09858@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Chris Kantarjiev" , Subject: Re: 330 2+2 7775 redux Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 21:49:23 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's the way I'm leaning now, but I value the list's input in areas where I'm less knowledgable...so thought I'd bounce this compression thing around. P.S. this is not the car that wouldn't start the first time I looked...that was 8267. That one still won't start and I'm not pushing the dealer on it. Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: Chris Kantarjiev > To: cashion@sprynet.com; ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: Re: 330 2+2 7775 redux > Date: Tuesday, April 29, 1997 12:09 PM > > This car seems like a lot of trouble - are you sure you don't just > want to pass on it? From cak Wed Apr 30 07:42:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA01002; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:41:57 -0700 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id RAA151630 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:41:44 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id RAA01249 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:41:44 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199704301441.RAA01249@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: Re: 330 2+2 7775 redux To: ferrari-vintage Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:41:43 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > You might try squirting some oil into one cylinder and re-measuring > compression. If the pressure is significantly higher than when dry, the > rings are involved. If not, they aren't. A leak-down test as previously > suggested may be more informative in the latter case, although if the > compression on all cylinders is consistent as reported, it does sound > like a ring problem. Also, do your "dry" test with the throttle wide open > (but be careful that you don't pump too much raw fuel into the cylinder). One of the oldest tricks in the book is letting pressurized air into cylinder through spark plug opening when the valves are closed. After opening both the oil and radiator caps you can determine where the leak is by just listening... Exhaust pipe: Burned exhaust valve Carb: Burned inlet valve Radiator: Head gasket Oil sump: Rings... Most helpful when there is uneven compression... From cak Wed Apr 30 10:49:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA00871; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:49:22 -0700 Received: by INET-03-IMC with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.14) id ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:49:37 -0700 Message-ID: <1B2056104081CF11914400805F68CC1704072DE3@RED-05-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> From: Jeff Littrell To: ferrari-vintage Subject: FW: Ferrari North America On-Line! Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:48:47 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.14) Is this Mark Davidson the guy who stole all of Ryan's old FerrariNet content or not? If not, my apologies to him for the mistake. If so, he's scum and I'm dismayed to see that he got the contract from FNA. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark R. Davidson [SMTP:mrdavidson@envise.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 1997 6:34 AM > To: satori@xbase.com; 76720.1651@compuserve.com; > shooter@WorldLink.ca; titusb@cpcug.org; 101657.1025@compuserve.com; > bugs@diamond.nb.net; webman@laval.rplus.net; gh@nsbasic.com; > landshrk@landsharkracing.com; 101626.2756@compuserve.com; > ianz@dolfin.com; 73771.531@compuserve.com; jean@mksinfo.qc.ca; > jeleveld@dolfin.com; Jeff Littrell; jspantis@total.net; > jklawson@dolfin.com; mpsl@pathcom.com; lslingo@ntr.net; > len@250gte.com; flag@laval.rplus.net; opapic@sidus.net; > robert@brak.com; rodgera@tkm.com; rpeck@passport.ca; > rsai+@andrew.cmu.edu; editor@SpecialCar.com > Subject: Ferrari North America On-Line! > > Hello! > > enVise is proud to announce the long-awaited launch of the official > Ferrari North America website at http://www.ferrari.com on > Wednesday, > May 30th!!! We are very proud of our efforts and hope that you will > take > a few minutes to take a look around. You can browse brochures of the > latest models, Paint Your Own Ferrari, locate your authorized Ferrari > dealer and even check out the complete inventory of pre-owned Ferraris > in > FNAs stock! Please pass the word along to fellow Ferrari enthusiasts. > > Several months of work have gone into developing the site - from > graphics > design to Java applets to a mostly unseen server-side Java/Advanced > Server > Page backend. In fact, we are confident that the FNA site is the > largest > install of server-side Java on the Internet. > > If you have any questions or wish to comment on the site, feel free to > do > so. You can visit the new enVise website at http://www.envise.com . > > Regards, > Mark > ------------------- enVise: Designed for the Internet > ------------------- > Mark Davidson E-mail: > mrdavids@envise.com > enVise Corporation Website: > http://www.envise.com > 121 King Street West, Suite 860, Box 19 Phone: > 416-777-1697 > Toronto, Ontario CANADA M5H 3T9 Fax: > 416-777-2562 > -------------------- http://www.envise.com/~mrdavids > -------------------- From cak Wed Apr 30 10:58:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA00931; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:58:32 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:58:32 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199704301758.KAA00931@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: FW: Ferrari North America On-Line! No, you're thinking of Ian Wyatt. From cak Wed Apr 30 11:11:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01016; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:11:05 -0700 Received: (from postman@localhost) by po7.andrew.cmu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.2) id OAA13911; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:10:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:10:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix12.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix12.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mms.4.60.Jun.27.1996.03.02.53.sun4.51.EzMail.2.0.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.unix12.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4m.54 via MS.5.6.unix12.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4_51; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:10:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Ryan J Snodgrass To: ferrari-vintage, Jeff Littrell Subject: Re: FW: Ferrari North America On-Line! In-Reply-To: <1B2056104081CF11914400805F68CC1704072DE3@RED-05-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> References: <1B2056104081CF11914400805F68CC1704072DE3@RED-05-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Excerpts from mail: 30-Apr-97 FW: Ferrari North America O.. by Jeff Littrell@MICROSOFT. > Is this Mark Davidson the guy who stole all of Ryan's old FerrariNet > content or not? If not, my apologies to him for the mistake. If so, > he's scum and I'm dismayed to see that he got the contract from FNA. No, he was the one who did Forza Ferrari! Canada. It was quite a nice site in it's own. Then apparently his company and Dave Steven got in on the FNA site after I was no longer in the running, per say ;). FNA's site is beautiful, if you haven't seen it, check it out! Ryan From cak Wed Apr 30 11:21:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01067; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:21:45 -0700 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:21:45 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199704301821.LAA01067@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: www.ferrarina.com Well, I'm underwhelmed. Another web site that is not much more than advertising posing as information. Ryan and his contributors (admittedly, I was one of them, so perhaps I'm biased) did a much better job of captruing and presenting the mystery, history and experience that we know and love as Ferrari... From cak Wed Apr 30 12:09:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA01386; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:09:19 -0700 Received: by mail1.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.14) id ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:08:36 -0700 Message-ID: <1B2056104081CF11914400805F68CC1704072DEA@RED-05-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> From: Jeff Littrell To: "'Ryan J Snodgrass'" Cc: "'ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com'" , "'Mark R. Davidson'" Subject: RE: FW: Ferrari North America On-Line! Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 12:06:31 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.14) That's right, now I recall. Mark is a nice guy. Sorry, Mark. I like the marketplace w/ the used cars but they need prices. Keep up the good work. > -----Original Message----- > From: Ryan J Snodgrass [SMTP:rsai+@andrew.cmu.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 1997 11:10 AM > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Jeff Littrell > Subject: Re: FW: Ferrari North America On-Line! > > Excerpts from mail: 30-Apr-97 FW: Ferrari North America O.. by Jeff > Littrell@MICROSOFT. > > Is this Mark Davidson the guy who stole all of Ryan's old > FerrariNet > > content or not? If not, my apologies to him for the mistake. If > so, > > he's scum and I'm dismayed to see that he got the contract from FNA. > > No, he was the one who did Forza Ferrari! Canada. It was quite a nice > site in it's own. Then apparently his company and Dave Steven got in > on > the FNA site after I was no longer in the running, per say ;). FNA's > site is beautiful, if you haven't seen it, check it out! > > Ryan From cak Thu May 1 06:25:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00616; Thu, 1 May 1997 06:25:46 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 9:29:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <970501092930.12d2c@idx.com> Subject: FWD: Re: 330 2+2 7775 redux although if the compression on all cylinders is consistent as reported, it does sound like a ring problem. >True enough. But is it a ring problem that will go away? After 3000 >miles, I wqould expect the rings to be well sealed; certainly more than >75psi worth (though those numbers are always tricky to interpret). > >I would be worried that something was done fundamentally wrong in the >prep, and that the rings will *never* seal unless the engine is opened >up again. For example, running new rings on synthetic oil is known to >inhibit sealing the rings, but that's reversible. Was the hone done >properly? There's no way to know this stuff...at least not without >spending more money. This sounds like a ring problem to me too. Rings certainly should seat in 3000 miles if the bores were properly honed, and the rings were properly installed. I have seen low compression result from rings being installed upsidedown. The bevel on compression rings needs to be up so that combustion pressure helps force it out against the cylinder wall. Bob From cak Fri May 2 14:21:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA03095; Fri, 2 May 1997 14:21:48 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad55-216.compuserve.com [199.174.187.216]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA13457; Fri, 2 May 1997 14:21:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199705022121.OAA13457@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Bob" , Subject: Re: Re: 330 2+2 7775 redux Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 16:00:29 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK, you've all convinced me. I'm passing on 7775!! Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: Bob > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: FWD: Re: 330 2+2 7775 redux > Date: Thursday, May 01, 1997 8:29 AM > > > although if the compression on all cylinders is consistent as > reported, it does sound like a ring problem. > > >True enough. But is it a ring problem that will go away? After 3000 > >miles, I wqould expect the rings to be well sealed; certainly more than > >75psi worth (though those numbers are always tricky to interpret). > > > >I would be worried that something was done fundamentally wrong in the > >prep, and that the rings will *never* seal unless the engine is opened > >up again. For example, running new rings on synthetic oil is known to > >inhibit sealing the rings, but that's reversible. Was the hone done > >properly? There's no way to know this stuff...at least not without > >spending more money. > > This sounds like a ring problem to me too. Rings certainly should seat in > 3000 miles if the bores were properly honed, and the rings were properly > installed. I have seen low compression result from rings being installed > upsidedown. The bevel on compression rings needs to be up so that combustion > pressure helps force it out against the cylinder wall. > > Bob From cak Wed May 7 18:48:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA04371; Wed, 7 May 1997 18:48:34 -0700 Received: by INET-02-IMC with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.14) id ; Wed, 7 May 1997 18:48:00 -0700 Message-ID: <1B2056104081CF11914400805F68CC1704072E30@RED-05-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> From: Jeff Littrell To: "'ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com'" Subject: FW: 72 daytona flywheel Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:48:19 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.14) Any leads for this guy? > -----Original Message----- > From: mbtech [SMTP:mbtech@prodigy.net] > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 1997 7:52 PM > To: Jeff Littrell > Subject: 72 daytona flywheel > > help help! i need to locate a 72 daytona stock flywheel in good shape > please forward any available sources. thanks marty barratt > > e mail @ car.fans-f1@juno.com From cak Sat May 17 16:49:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA03143; Sat, 17 May 1997 16:44:41 -0700 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA80722 for ; Sat, 17 May 1997 23:24:07 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id XAA17031 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 17 May 1997 23:24:07 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199705172024.XAA17031@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: Rare options... To: ferrari-vintage Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 23:24:07 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hrmph... I hate to wake you all up but I just have to see if this thing still works. Here's the bait: There were certain rare options sold on 250 GTE's, like power windows and sunroof. Does anyone have any opinion on how rare these gadgets were and on the other hand were they offered as options or just sold as special features for the more important/demanding customers of the company...? Were there any other special features offered - at least a car or two had an air intake on hood of some kind... What did they offer for 330 - and what curiosities have surfaced later? From cak Sun May 18 20:22:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA04173; Sun, 18 May 1997 20:21:58 -0700 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout09.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id XAA11088; Sun, 18 May 1997 23:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 23:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970518232119_575525502@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: kpietila@cc.hut.fi, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Rare options... Good questions. I have another one to add. Were any 250 GTE's built with air conditioning? There was one at one of the auto shows when it was introduced that had a sign proclaiming it to have air. I know several have been converted to air later. Harold Pace From cak Sun May 18 23:46:03 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id XAA05054; Sun, 18 May 1997 23:46:01 -0700 Received: by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id CAA26121; Mon, 19 May 1997 02:45:28 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 02:45:02 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: rare options? To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199705190245_MC2-16DE-8C2A@compuserve.com> I have the distinct impression that up through the end of the 250 series, there were no regular options, and certainly not anything as formal as an options list. From what I've read and heard, things seemed to be done at the factory in a very ad hoc way -- one of the reasons the trim parts on the 250 cars had so much variation, according to many stories I've heard. It's also my impression that when a customer wanted something special, he simply wrote to the factory and asked for it. And more often than not, they pulled a price out of the air and accommodated the request. The bigger requests were seemingly applied mostly on the true custom coachbuilt cars, which of course comprised the majority of the factory's early production. But as a tiny example, my cab has two sets of horns fitted -- apparently original. This may have been done at Chinetti's, since all 200 examples of this car were for the USA, but it's certainly not something that was ever on any options list. Back from vacation, Dave Booth From cak Mon May 19 08:54:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA01250; Mon, 19 May 1997 08:54:36 -0700 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id SAA82592 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 18:33:56 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id SAA08795 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 19 May 1997 18:33:56 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199705191533.SAA08795@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: Re: Rare options... To: ferrari-vintage Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 18:33:55 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Good questions. I have another one to add. Were any 250 GTE's built with air > conditioning? There was one at one of the auto shows when it was introduced > that had a sign proclaiming it to have air. I know several have been > converted to air later. David Owen's Ferrari 4-seaters suggests that Ferraris only had air (and power steering) after 330GTC was introduced in 1966. I think dealers _may_ have installed air conditioning to some of the GTE's - would be pointless to advertise it otherwise woudln't it? I am also under impression that several later converted air conditioned GTE's exist. From cak Mon May 19 11:12:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA02153; Mon, 19 May 1997 11:12:58 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 11:12:58 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199705191812.LAA02153@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Rare options... David Owen's Ferrari 4-seaters suggests that Ferraris only had air (and power steering) after 330GTC was introduced in 1966. There are two ways to interpret that statement - that Ferrari started selling those options on all cars in 1966, or that only models from the 330 GTC on could have them. The former is more likely to be true. Our 330 GT has p/s and a/c; it was built in October 1966 and has the later two mount 330 engine that is shared with the GTC. There is precious little documentation available on the power steering system in particular; I have a factory installation guide, but no maintenance information. The pump and box components are marked as having been manufactured by ZF, but the parts are interchangeable with the GM power steering pump of that era or a few years before. It appears that the later Jaguar sedans and perhaps the V-12 E type also used this pump. The photos I've seen of 365 Californias indicate that the same pump is in that car. We also have power windows. I have no idea when these first became available, and it seems that the installation was never standardized - I've seen two switches on the center console (as in our car) as well as two switches in the driver's door plus on in the passenger door. From cak Mon May 19 11:29:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA02312; Mon, 19 May 1997 11:28:51 -0700 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id VAA120282 for ; Mon, 19 May 1997 21:27:42 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id VAA10384 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 19 May 1997 21:27:42 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199705191827.VAA10384@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: Re: Rare options... To: ferrari-vintage Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 21:27:41 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > David Owen's Ferrari 4-seaters suggests that Ferraris only had air > (and power steering) after 330GTC was introduced in 1966. > > There are two ways to interpret that statement - that Ferrari started > selling those options on all cars in 1966, or that only models > from the 330 GTC on could have them. Owen stataes that once GTC was introduced you could have these also installed on 2+2's, which makes sense since most of the later 330's have both, concidering what I've heard. By the way, Chris, do you have the book mentioned - just a thought as it is one of the very few books that bother to use 10-20 pages on such subjects as 250 GTE and 330 GT 2+2 each - cars that many other won't waste a single page alltogether... From cak Tue May 20 09:31:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01478; Tue, 20 May 1997 09:31:38 -0700 Received: from 207.213.5.77 (du77-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.77]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id JAA19951 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 09:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33817687.56EC@net-quest.com> Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 10:01:49 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari-Vintage List Subject: rare options. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I have seen references to power windows back to the 330 America. The other things were a pleasant surprize. Has anyone got photo's, either in person or in books, of GTE's with sunroofs or the A/C option. The A/C install, anyone seen one of these. Was it a total mess or part of the car. I myself am interested, Southern California can be a bear in Summer in a car. Regards, Andrew. From cak Wed May 21 14:22:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA03701; Wed, 21 May 1997 14:22:31 -0700 Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:22:31 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199705212122.OAA03701@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: who's your favorite source for hard-to-find stuff? While 9161 was being repainted, a couple of things were lost. In particular, two of the three chromed rings that trim the vents in the center of the dash. Foolishly, I paid the balance on the paint/body work before these were replaced - the shop is now ignoring my request that they make good. So I figured I'd find them myself and present a bill. It's not proving so easy. I started with Bill Rudd's old shop, Maranello Auto Parts, since they usually have the old stuff. "Sorry, NLA". I called Gentry Lane, and they're checking, but their "largest collection of parts in Canada" is from the Dino forward. I left messages with Fred Petroske (parting out a 330), Amerispec, and I'm avoiding Geoff Ohland until I really get desperate, since he always charges a premium. Who else is likely to have these sitting on a dusty shelf? I can't remember if *all* the 330s have these vents (about 3" in diameter) or just the series II; it appears that the 330 GTC and the 365 might have used the same vents... From cak Wed May 21 15:43:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA04162; Wed, 21 May 1997 15:43:31 -0700 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id BAA150596 for ; Thu, 22 May 1997 01:43:25 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id BAA06156 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Thu, 22 May 1997 01:43:28 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199705212243.BAA06156@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: rare options? To: ferrari-vintage Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 01:43:27 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have the distinct impression that up through the end of the 250 series, > there were no regular options, and certainly not anything as formal as an > options list. From what I've read and heard, things seemed to be done at What's the story behind the power windows...? They seem to be a quite common, still most of the cars (?) don't have them... Just randonly installed on some of the cars to pick from if you really wanted to have them...? > It's also my impression that when a customer wanted something special, he > simply wrote to the factory and asked for it. And more often than not, > they pulled a price out of the air and accommodated the request. The ...or taked with the dealer who either installed it or handed the request further to the factory (?) When our GTE was servided at Modena my father in law wished that an anti- theft device should be installed. The reply was: "We have also noted your requirement, to install a steering lock device with alarm in your 250/gt, which, however, in not fitted usually in our 3-liter automobiles" They istalled this stupid beeper and charged 11.000 lires for it (1967), which was roughly as much as they charged the missing spark plug wrench... > apparently original. This may have been done at Chinetti's, since all 200 > examples of this car were for the USA, but it's certainly not something > that was ever on any options list. No less than 2 of these cars were sold in UK; (rule Britania!) By the way, any of you have any idea how many of these "about 200 cars" (some sources talk about 210 cars...?) had the factory hardtops? From cak Wed May 21 17:37:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA04830; Wed, 21 May 1997 17:37:36 -0700 Received: from 207.213.5.52 (du52-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.52]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id RAA02354 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 17:37:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <338339EE.60E4@net-quest.com> Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 18:07:46 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari-Vintage List Subject: bits and peices Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Chris, Have you tried Steve Piantieri. He has a lump of bits that not even he knows he has. If you need email/web address let me know. It's not with me at the moment, but I can get it. Andrew. From cak Wed May 21 17:56:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA04965; Wed, 21 May 1997 17:56:52 -0700 Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 17:56:52 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199705220056.RAA04965@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: abrent@net-quest.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: bits and peices Oh yeah - I tried Steve a few weeks back. He came up with something for a Daytona - bigger. But a good thought; thanks. When we got the car, I tried a slew of places to look for various small missing parts and tools: AW Imported, FAF, McCann, Newport Imports, Shelton, Tillack. The names were gleaned from Cavallino and FML - most of them couldn't even be bothered to answer my fax. I was stunned. This time I'll try the phone, but ... From cak Wed May 21 20:20:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA05725; Wed, 21 May 1997 20:20:28 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad62-036.compuserve.com [199.174.191.36]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA10036; Wed, 21 May 1997 20:20:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199705220320.UAA10036@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Chris Kantarjiev" , Subject: Re: Rare options... Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 22:00:57 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 330 2+2 S/N 7775 that I looked at in Kansas City had power windows with the switches on the doors, but I seem to remember only one switch on each door. We decided that 7775 was built in 1965. Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: Chris Kantarjiev > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: Re: Rare options... > Date: Monday, May 19, 1997 1:12 PM > > David Owen's Ferrari 4-seaters suggests that Ferraris only had air > (and power steering) after 330GTC was introduced in 1966. > > There are two ways to interpret that statement - that Ferrari started > selling those options on all cars in 1966, or that only models > from the 330 GTC on could have them. > > The former is more likely to be true. Our 330 GT has p/s and a/c; it > was built in October 1966 and has the later two mount 330 engine > that is shared with the GTC. There is precious little documentation > available on the power steering system in particular; I have > a factory installation guide, but no maintenance information. The > pump and box components are marked as having been manufactured > by ZF, but the parts are interchangeable with the GM power steering > pump of that era or a few years before. It appears that the later > Jaguar sedans and perhaps the V-12 E type also used this pump. The > photos I've seen of 365 Californias indicate that the same pump > is in that car. > > We also have power windows. I have no idea when these first became > available, and it seems that the installation was never standardized - > I've seen two switches on the center console (as in our car) as well as > two switches in the driver's door plus on in the passenger door. From cak Wed May 21 20:38:27 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA05804; Wed, 21 May 1997 20:38:25 -0700 Received: by hil-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA22715; Wed, 21 May 1997 23:37:49 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 23:37:19 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Optional issues To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199705212337_MC2-170F-2C58@compuserve.com> Re electric windows: my third series GTE, #4799, has the electric window lift on the passenger side only, with the switch on the dash face. Re: cab numbers and hardtops, I've always read from people who appeared to have done some pretty serious research that exactly 200 examples were built. This is the first I've heard about two being originally sold into the UK market. Curious thing is that some of them had instruments with USA units of measure and others, like mine, have all Euro instruments. Probably a case of "Presto! We needa the gauges! Call Veglia! See whata they got on hand!" I've never heard anyone guess how many had the accessory steel hardtop, but lots of the other owners I've asked have said, "oh, sure.." like it was no big deal. I've heard that they were supposedly pretty rare, and I vividly remember Dennis McCann advertising one for sale a coupla years ago for $7,000. Best, Dave From cak Wed May 21 22:03:38 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA06261; Wed, 21 May 1997 22:03:36 -0700 Received: by hil-img-10.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA08493; Thu, 22 May 1997 01:03:00 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 01:02:49 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Trim sources To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199705220102_MC2-1714-7DEB@compuserve.com> Trim parts are really tough. The regular sources you mention are great for mechanical parts, but as you're finding out, trim pieces are really a question of who's got a parts car that has the pieces you need. You might try: Charles Betz/Fred Peters Vector Industries 714-633-6817 James Keeble Eurospares 011-44-1787-477169 (phone) 011-44-1787-472-867 (fax) fair warning on these folks -- even with scaled drawings or Polaroids of the surving piece of a pair, they've sent me the wrong stuff. Dennis McCann NOS Ferrari parts 614-855-1103 (phone) 614-855-2850 (fax) If you don't have a subscription to Ferrari Market Letter or FML Online, please reiterate what you're looking for and I'll keep a lookout for you. Regards, Dave Booth From cak Thu May 22 01:20:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id BAA07223; Thu, 22 May 1997 01:20:24 -0700 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id LAA142816 for ; Thu, 22 May 1997 11:20:12 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id LAA10991 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Thu, 22 May 1997 11:20:13 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199705220820.LAA10991@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: Optional issues To: ferrari-vintage Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 11:20:12 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Re: cab numbers and hardtops, I've always read from people who appeared to > have done some pretty serious research that exactly 200 examples were > built. This is the first I've heard about two being originally sold into > the UK market. Curious thing is that some of them had instruments with USA Some variation may depend on which specials and prototipos are included in the count if any. I have actually seen the figure 210 units being mentioned more often than 100+100 cars. Some sources mention merrily how the 210 car production run consisted of two series of 100 cars each, though... Maranello Concessionaires of UK state in a brochure of theirs that they have imported 2 Rhd 250 GT s.2 cabriolets of 210 units produced. It wouldn't be the first time an "official" figure is off the target... > units of measure and others, like mine, have all Euro instruments. > Probably a case of "Presto! We needa the gauges! Call Veglia! See whata > they got on hand!" I've never heard anyone guess how many had the I have heard that most Ferrari customers in America didn't care whether the car had the speedo in miles or Km's - or nobody asked them. That wasn't the most difficult thing to accommodate to when sitting behind the wheel of Ferrari after having used to Cadillacs and Chryslers... Strange European gauges were concidered a part of the mystique, in the same manner that I know many people here actually liked their American cars that had strange American gauges. From cak Thu May 22 13:42:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02881; Thu, 22 May 1997 13:42:04 -0700 Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:42:04 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199705222042.NAA02881@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: 104375.2245@compuserve.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Trim sources Ever heard of a felow named Jim Carpenter? That's where FAF, er, Ferrari of Atlanta sent me... I haven't reached him yet, though. Ah. Now I know why the name is familiar. This is the guy who is turning 308s into 288 GTO replicas and 330 GTs into P3/P4 replicas. He must have *tons* of parts.... of course, he's probably at the National meet. From cak Thu May 22 13:45:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02907; Thu, 22 May 1997 13:45:06 -0700 Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:45:06 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199705222045.NAA02907@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Carpenter no joy. He's sold all the center vent units that he had, and sold them as whole assemblies... From cak Thu May 22 19:30:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA04949; Thu, 22 May 1997 19:30:25 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hdn87-026.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.97.26]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA26885 for ; Thu, 22 May 1997 19:30:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199705230230.TAA26885@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Ferrari parts Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 18:42:30 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those of you not on the original Ferrari list, here is a note from Tony Nevotti (F of Houston manager) re: his offer to set up a parts purchasing program for list members. Contact him if you're intersted. P.S. I've deleted the front end of Tony's note as it was not relevant to the parts program. Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: Anthony Nevotti > To: ferrari@SoftHome.net > Subject: RE: Ferraris on Discovery Channel > Date: Wednesday, May 21, 1997 11:00 PM > > PS. I am willing to set up a parts purchasing program with members of the > list if they would like. I feel that if we had some program we can complete > on a lot of items, the difference is in the long run all of your parts would > be original, without wasting the time searching for something $10, $20 or $30 > cheaper. You probably waste more than that in your search. As well as > supporting your Ferrari Dealer whom you love to have around as your insurance > policy. I am open to any ideas on this. > > Regards, > > Tony Nevotti > General Manager > Ferrari of Houston From cak Thu May 22 23:41:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id XAA06156; Thu, 22 May 1997 23:41:38 -0700 Received: from 204.140.219.40 (dial011w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.40]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id XAA12376 for ; Thu, 22 May 1997 23:41:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33853D62.7C8A@net-quest.com> Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 23:47:03 -0700 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: dudes with bits Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Chris I got home and went through the file on people I have called and managed to come up with some guy's you haven't mentioned. Wayne Ohbry - 414-725-4688. Restores the old ones, didn't have anything I wanted but you never know. Hal rogers. 318-742-3651 This was interesting. I called Hal on the exhaust problem I have not thinking he could help. He did, and cheaper than anyone else (not alot, but hey anything is better isn't it). It seems that his sources are overseas. I've not ordered the set yet, but he was very helpful and I will be going to him when I get to it. Steve Tillack. Is literally 2 miles from my house. I know you have the number, but as I will be going to see him on June 17th, an FNA thing, I could sniff around the parts department for you. I have already been over there during the water pump drama and found him very accomodating. They are restoring a GTE at the moment, and doing exceptional work. That's about it. Unfortuantly I have to echo Dave Booth's comment on getting trim bits. The ones I have got so far for 3835 have been via the force. So good luck. Andrew. From cak Fri May 23 00:03:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id AAA06255; Fri, 23 May 1997 00:03:31 -0700 Received: from 204.140.219.40 (dial011w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.40]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id AAA12755 for ; Fri, 23 May 1997 00:03:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33854283.6984@net-quest.com> Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 00:09:01 -0700 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: more dudes with bits. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi again, Someone else is Brook in the parts department at Symbolic Motors, again when I call they have nothing I want but his number is 619-454-1800. Andrew. From cak Fri May 23 16:53:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA04388; Fri, 23 May 1997 16:52:59 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad58-065.compuserve.com [199.174.189.65]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA15982 for ; Fri, 23 May 1997 16:52:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199705232352.QAA15982@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Fw: Need info on a Serial number Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 18:50:30 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe someone on this list can help. Kare / David? Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: Andrew M. Wass > To: Ferrari@SoftHome.net > Subject: Need info on a Serial number > Date: Friday, May 23, 1997 5:01 PM > > > > > > I'm going through a list of all Ferraris registered in NZ and have come > across one where I need some help. The problem is that people who register > the cars can put down anything they want. Example is that one is registered > with a model type of 'Tractor' > > The one I am interested in has Year of Manufacture as 1957 and model type > as 'Sports'. Serial number is listed as 0512M. From my books I think this > might be a 750 Monza. > > Can someone please confirm or correct this. > > Thanks > Andrew > From cak Sat May 24 08:14:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA00999; Sat, 24 May 1997 08:14:19 -0700 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id SAA66570 for ; Sat, 24 May 1997 18:14:16 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id SAA04508 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 24 May 1997 18:14:17 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199705241514.SAA04508@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: Fw: Need info on a Serial number To: ferrari-vintage Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 18:14:16 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Maybe someone on this list can help. Kare / David? Factory assembly sheets confirm 0512MD as: 750 Monza Scaglietti Spyder frame type: 510/111 Engine type: 111 I sent the dude a note about it... And hey Chris; Just saw somebody named "George" (?) advertising in the current Classic & Sportscar a wide collection of trim parts for pre-1975 Ferraris in RI (Rhode Island?). The number listed was 401-322-4085. Tried that yet...? From cak Tue May 27 19:44:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA05186; Tue, 27 May 1997 19:44:06 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (dd28-138.compuserve.com [199.174.145.138]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA22750 for ; Tue, 27 May 1997 19:43:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199705280243.TAA22750@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Photos Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:41:23 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I attended a Wooden Boat and Antique car show a few weeks ago near Houston. I have scanned pix of the following cars that I photographed. let me know if anyone wants some or all and I'll send via separate mail. The files are ZIPPED files in TIF format and are 600-900k each. Ferrari F-50 front and rear Ferrari F-50 engine (original is a bit dark, so second image is digitally lightened) Ferrari 250 GTE + Maser 3500 GT Ferrari 3500 GT + Maser 3000 (?) I apologize for mis-labelling the Masers. I don't know them very well by sight and didn't right them down when I took the phots. Regards, Bryan From cak Thu May 29 18:05:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA04559; Thu, 29 May 1997 18:05:10 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad01-029.compuserve.com [199.174.128.29]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA05468 for ; Thu, 29 May 1997 18:05:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199705300105.SAA05468@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Plethora Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 20:02:35 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm going to look at three cars tomorrow ... 250 GTE, 365 GT 2+2, and 365 GTC4. Seems a local collector has 2-3 of several models from 250 up to 365. He is selling all but one of each and donating the one to a museum. Any thoughts beyond the normal 'caveat emptor' from any of you? Regards, Bryan From cak Thu May 29 20:13:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA05120; Thu, 29 May 1997 20:13:08 -0700 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout15.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id XAA11104 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Thu, 29 May 1997 23:12:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 23:12:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970529231131_-1162986570@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Heater valves Anybody know a source for the heater hose shut-off valves in the small hoses on a 330 2+2? Are they off anything else? One of mine is missing. Also, the heater shut-off valve on the block is stuck. Any hints? Are these available if I break it? Harold Pace 330 2+2 From cak Thu May 29 21:03:51 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA05388; Thu, 29 May 1997 21:03:51 -0700 Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 21:03:51 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199705300403.VAA05388@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: cashion@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Plethora Cc: ferrari-vintage My thought for the day is that smog laws will only get worse; the GTC4 is rumored to be a *real* pain to work on (something about two hours to get the air cleaners on or off)... I am still trying to find trim rings; I think I called 20 places today. Tillack has *one*, but hasn't decided what to charge me. Symbolic thinks they could make them. I figure one doesn't do me any good - if I can only find one, I have to make one, and the main cost of making them is setup - turning out three is barely more expensive than one. So another thought is make sure you get all your trim, and don't let anyone lose any of it! From cak Thu May 29 21:07:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA05430; Thu, 29 May 1997 21:07:33 -0700 Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 21:07:33 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199705300407.VAA05430@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: PaceCars@aol.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Heater valves Try Bill Rudd, er, Maranello Auto Parts for both. I had all my valves, but needed all new gaskets; they had them. Chances are that the rubber gasket/diaphragm in the big valve is swollen. I doubt they're available, but they come apart very easily and pretty obviously. Pull the air cleaner and take a look; if it's not straightforward, I'll try to walk you through it. Kroil (or some other penetrating oil) is your friend here. Apparently the internal diaphragms never seal well, allowing some coolant to leak and corrode the works. From cak Fri May 30 06:41:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00674; Fri, 30 May 1997 06:41:38 -0700 Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 9:45:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <970530094544.7b4ce@idx.com> Subject: RE: Plethora Bryan, These 3 cars cover the whole range. You have the classic styling and near vintage racecar feel of the GTE. The refined elegance and bulk of the "Queen Mother". and finally the poor man's Daytona. All have room for 4 passengers, although leg room in the C4 is poor. The first two cars are similar mechanically and are both relatively easy to work on, while the C4 has twin overhead cams and an engine bay that is jammed full. I believe that the 365 2+2 has a self leveling rear suspension that can cause problems. Which car to buy is a hard question. Certainly overall condition is important, but the car also has to satisfy your wants and needs. Without a doubt the C4 would provide the highest level of performance and from what I have read it rivals the Daytona. The 365 2+2 is much more sedate but still has plenty of power and handling to make driving interesting. I have a real soft spot for the GTE. The 250 engine is a jewel but its narrow power band makes it more difficult to drive well. You need to keep the revs up and the power on to counter the cars tendency to understeer. For me the choice would be between the C4 and the GTE. Although I like the styling and understated elegance of the 365 2+2 its just not a car that I would care to own; no particular reason - it's just not me. I look forward to a report on what you find and good luck. Bob From cak Fri May 30 08:15:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA01259; Fri, 30 May 1997 08:15:43 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA28741 for ; Fri, 30 May 1997 10:15:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199705301515.KAA28741@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Received: from bal-md6-21.ix.netcom.com(199.183.205.213) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma028725; Fri May 30 10:14:49 1997 Subject: Re: Plethora Date: Fri, 30 May 97 11:17:10 -0400 From: Bruce Rippey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >I'm going to look at three cars tomorrow ... 250 GTE, 365 GT 2+2, and 365 >GTC4. Seems a local collector has 2-3 of several models from 250 up to >365. He is selling all but one of each and donating the one to a museum. >Any thoughts beyond the normal 'caveat emptor' from any of you? > >Regards, >Bryan The range represents a decade of development. If price is secondary, my gut response is, go for the C4. -Bruce From cak Fri May 30 08:38:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA01407; Fri, 30 May 1997 08:38:10 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA01219 for ; Fri, 30 May 1997 10:37:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199705301537.KAA01219@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Received: from bal-md5-10.ix.netcom.com(199.183.205.170) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma001192; Fri May 30 10:37:02 1997 Subject: Re: Heater valves Date: Fri, 30 May 97 11:39:23 -0400 From: Bruce Rippey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Anybody know a source for the heater hose shut-off valves in the small hoses >on a 330 2+2? Are they off anything else? One of mine is missing. Also, the >heater shut-off valve on the block is stuck. Any hints? Are these available >if I break it? >Harold Pace >330 2+2 I have replaced both in-line valves and block valve, but it was about ten years ago. I would expect that these parts are still available - try calling Rutlands, Partsource, Algar, Maranello Auto Parts, and others whose ads you'll find in Cavallino, Prancing Horse, and the other enthusiast mags. -Bruce From cak Fri May 30 10:15:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA02078; Fri, 30 May 1997 10:15:02 -0700 Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 10:15:02 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199705301715.KAA02078@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: brippey@ix.netcom.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Heater valves Harold, before you tear into the block valve - make sure that it isn't the cable that is stuck. THey're just mild steel in a mild steel casing and have a tendency to rust in place. Again, Kroil (and patience) is your friend. Another good source for this kind of part is GT Car Parts somewhere in AZ, 602 780 2200. He has a lot of stuff, but not as much detailed knowledge as some of the others. From cak Sat May 31 17:09:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA03625; Sat, 31 May 1997 17:08:58 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad31-253.compuserve.com [199.174.134.253]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA18943 for ; Sat, 31 May 1997 17:08:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199706010008.RAA18943@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Picture of Maserati 5000 Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 07:40:12 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The car that I had in my pictures as a Maserati 3000 is actually a 5000. I saw it yesterday at the same shop with the Ferraris I drove. There were only 34 5000s built according to the shop and 28 are know to still exist. They have 3 of them. They have 4 headlights ala 330 2+2 Series 1 and second series T-birds. MASSIVE V-8 block. 170 mph ... apparently one of the fastest road cars of that era. Apologies for non-Ferrari post. Regards, Bryan From cak Sat May 31 17:09:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA03626; Sat, 31 May 1997 17:08:58 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad31-253.compuserve.com [199.174.134.253]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA18937 for ; Sat, 31 May 1997 17:08:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199706010008.RAA18937@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Maserati 3000 ?? Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 07:39:16 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The car that I had in my pictures as a Maserati 3000 is actually a 5000. I saw it yesterday at the same shop with the Ferraris I drove. There were only 34 5000s built according to the shop and 28 are know to still exist. They have 3 of them. They have 4 headlights ala 330 2+2 Series 1 and second series T-birds. MASSIVE V-8 block. 170 mph ... apparently one of the fastest road cars of that era. Regards, Bryan From cak Sat May 31 18:54:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA04116; Sat, 31 May 1997 18:54:35 -0700 From: GT40MIRAGE@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout03.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id VAA29785 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 31 May 1997 21:54:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 21:54:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970531215402_-464017876@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Fwd: I AM LOOKING TO PURCHASE MASERATI 5000'S --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: I AM LOOKING TO PURCHASE MASERATI 5000'S Date: 97-05-31 21:51:15 EDT From: GT40MIRAGE To: cashion@sprynet.com WE HAVE PURCHASE 4 FOR A CUSTOMER THIS YEAR FINDER FEES PAID A6G2000 PRODUCT ALSO TOM SHAUGHNESSY 424 N EL CAMINO REAL SAN CLEMENTE CA 92672 714 366 6211 714 366 6827 FAX From cak Sat May 31 21:05:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA04740; Sat, 31 May 1997 21:05:36 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hdn93-028.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.100.28]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA05926; Sat, 31 May 1997 21:05:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199706010405.VAA05926@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: Cc: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Re: Picture of Maserati 5000 Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 22:06:50 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After seeing the 5000 with four headlights, I got to thinking about other cars in the 65-67 timeframe that had 4 headlights. I decided that there must have been a trend (market driven ??) to 4...the Series I 2+2 was not alone! Ferrari 330 2+2 Series I Maserati 5000 Triumph Vitesse (1969) Lancia Flavia (1964) Lamborghini 350 GT (1965) Others ?? Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: PaceCars@aol.com > To: cashion@sprynet.com > Subject: Re: Picture of Maserati 5000 > Date: Saturday, May 31, 1997 9:16 PM > > Brian, > Thanks for the Maserati post. Aldo and I are both Maserati fans, and, > besides, Maserati is part of the family now. > Harold From cak Sun Jun 1 10:09:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01607; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:09:56 -0700 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout14.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id NAA14131; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970601130920_677442611@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: cashion@sprynet.com cc: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Picture of Maserati 5000 I have also seen Maserati 5000's with a single rectangular headlight per side. Euro only? Harold Pace From cak Sun Jun 1 10:08:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01600; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 10:08:16 -0700 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout20.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id NAA23752; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:07:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970601130741_1275124340@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: cashion@sprynet.com cc: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 4-headlight craze Other 2-headlight cars from early 1960's per Brian Cashions' request (other than S1 330 2+2): Alfa 2600 coupe Bentley S3 and Rolls Most Detroit iron Corvette Stingray Jaguar Mk.10 Lagonda Rapide Jensen C-V8 Lancia Flavia and Flaminia Harold Pace From cak Sun Jun 1 19:47:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA04313; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:46:58 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad04-003.compuserve.com [199.174.131.3]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA07437; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 19:46:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199706020246.TAA07437@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Cc: "Tino Mingori" Subject: Driving impressions (365 GT 2+2 / 365 GTC4) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 14:11:52 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit AS I mentioned in an quick earlier note to the list, I drove a 365 GT 2+2 and two C4s a few days ago. Hope the following are interesting. Any comments are appreciated. BACKGROUND This particular independent dealer has a major client who is buying cars to fill a museum/foundation. His strategy has been to buy 2-3 cars in a particular model, drive each, select the one that matches his museum criteria, and sell the others. At the moment he has about 50 cars, including Rolls, Jags, MGA, and others. In the Italian "genre" he has 2 250 GTE (metallic gray and red) 1 365 GT 2+2 (black) 2 365 GTC4 (maroon and red) 1 512 BB (red) 1 400A 2 Lamborghini Espada (red and red) 2 Maserati 3500 GT (dark metallic gray and creme) 1 Maserati 5000 (metallic teal) ... he may have other 5000s. He's still looking for the "right' 365 GT 2+2 for the museum, so the single model he has is for sale. The maroon C4 is the lead case for the museum, but he let me drive it anyway and the red one is for sale. The battery was out of the 250 GTE, so I didn't it (yet ...) Stream of consciousness comments on driving. Much of the following may be familiar to y'all, but new to me. 365 GT 2+2 A BIG car. Even from the many pictures I have seen, I was not prepared for the length of the SA-type tail. Interestingly, from dead on in the front the similiarity to a 275 GTB 2-cam is notable. View of instrument pod is a bit limited, but not as bad as C4. Same engine sound as 250, but bigger, i.e. raspy and wonderful. Needed to keep the revs up ... I stalled it the first time. Heavy clutch, but manageable. Needs more assertiveness to ensure disengaging than a 330 2+2. Feel is essentially the same as 330, i.e. its in or out. Steering is not too bad for a 3800+ lb car. Only slightly more effort needed than 330 2+2. More room front and back than 330 2+2. This is important as I'm 6'3". The extra legroom compared to a 330 is not significant, but enough that my knees don't crowd the steering wheel. This may contribute to the relative ease of steering for the car. I could control over/understeer with the throttle. The response time for the car to change following a change in throttle input was small, but noticeable. Response time to steering inout change was quick, however. Engine had a stumble at about 4000 rpm. Any thoughts on this? The car isn't run that much and very rarely flat-out, I suppose. Bottom line: still a contender for my heart, but read on. 365 GTC4 I've always liked the lines of the C4, black bumper and all. Still as distinctive as any Pininfarina, even after 25 years. But I feel the same way about 250, 330, 275 ...! The engine compartment is stunning. The side draft carbs make the whole engine appear to be wider than it is long (maybe it is). There is much less room to work than 330 or even 365. The noise is smoother and more refined than the 330/365, but still wonderful ... it's a personal choice as to which is 'better.' Not quite as much room in the front as the 365. NO room in the rear when I push the seat all the way back for my legs. I like an upright seat. This results in the top 25% or so of the instrument pod being hidden by the pod overhang and steering wheel. Makes tach a bit of a problem and speedo really hard to read. Maybe I can change my preference for seat rake. Lighter clutch than the 365, but still not as light as 90s cars. When I drove the Lexus afterwards, I thought the hydraulic fluid was gone, the pedal went down so easily!! Lighter steering than the 365 (new assist system, I understand). Handling is very neutral and quick with no body roll. Point it and go. Great fun! Shifting in both cars was similar to 330. If I wasn't careful and deliberate, I'd grind a bit. Could be me as much as anything, but I'm beginning to feel comfortable with Ferrari transmissions now. At this point, the C4 has a slight edge over 330/365. No surprise there ... it's newer and more expensive. I suppose if I drove a 550, I would like it the best! Will have to wait and see. Will go over mechanical side of both cars next weekend. Thanks for listening. Regards, Bryan From cak Sun Jun 1 21:30:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA05045; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 21:30:11 -0700 Received: by mail5.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.30) id ; Sun, 1 Jun 1997 21:31:42 -0700 Message-ID: <1B2056104081CF11914400805F68CC170455D27E@RED-05-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> From: Jeff Littrell To: "'cak@dimebank.com'" , cashion@sprynet.com Cc: ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: Plethora Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 21:30:20 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.30) I just had my 365 GTC/4 smogged here in sunny So Cal. I can't say that it was a breeze but it did pass, legally. Basically, I just plan my tune-ups in two-year intervals around smog cert req. The hardest part is finding a shop that will deal w/ it. Smog Check II has many shops running from hard to pass cars in fear of attention being drawn to them for past or current illegalities. Once a shop is found it is a simple(?) matter of plugging in the wire on the solenoid for the air pump that seems to find its way off all the time ;-), put in a sniffer, hook up the sync tubes and adjust to pass. Viola, 24 fouled spark plugs later it is legally passed and can now be set back to a state of tune that makes it drivable. Of course, it helps a lot if you have all the correct stuff on the car, emissions-wise. > -----Original Message----- > From: cak@dimebank.com [SMTP:cak@dimebank.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 1997 9:04 PM > To: cashion@sprynet.com > Cc: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: Re: Plethora > > My thought for the day is that smog laws will only get worse; > the GTC4 is rumored to be a *real* pain to work on (something about > two hours to get the air cleaners on or off)... > > I am still trying to find trim rings; I think I called 20 places > today. Tillack has *one*, but hasn't decided what to charge me. > Symbolic thinks they could make them. I figure one doesn't do > me any good - if I can only find one, I have to make one, and the > main cost of making them is setup - turning out three is barely > more expensive than one. > > So another thought is make sure you get all your trim, and don't let > anyone lose any of it! From cak Mon Jun 2 17:42:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA04843; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:42:51 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd65-245.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.245.245]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA10264; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:42:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199706030042.RAA10264@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Jeff Littrell" , "'cak@dimebank.com'" Cc: Subject: Re: Plethora Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 18:43:40 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff: how does it drive just AFTER it has passed? Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: Jeff Littrell > To: 'cak@dimebank.com'; cashion@sprynet.com > Cc: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: RE: Plethora > Date: Sunday, June 01, 1997 11:30 PM > > > I just had my 365 GTC/4 smogged here in sunny So Cal. I can't say that > it was a breeze but it did pass, legally. Basically, I just plan my > tune-ups in two-year intervals around smog cert req. The hardest part > is finding a shop that will deal w/ it. Smog Check II has many shops > running from hard to pass cars in fear of attention being drawn to them > for past or current illegalities. Once a shop is found it is a > simple(?) matter of plugging in the wire on the solenoid for the air > pump that seems to find its way off all the time ;-), put in a sniffer, > hook up the sync tubes and adjust to pass. Viola, 24 fouled spark plugs > later it is legally passed and can now be set back to a state of tune > that makes it drivable. Of course, it helps a lot if you have all the From cak Mon Jun 2 22:30:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA06468; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 22:30:04 -0700 Received: from 204.140.219.47 (dial003w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.32]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id WAA00760 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 22:30:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3393AD2B.1C67@net-quest.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 22:35:52 -0700 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: Re: Plethora References: <1B2056104081CF11914400805F68CC170455D27E@RED-05-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Littrell wrote: > > I just had my 365 GTC/4 smogged here in sunny So Cal. I can't say that > it was a breeze but it did pass, legally. Basically, I just plan my > tune-ups in two-year intervals around smog cert req. I can verify that Jeff's car seems to be running fine, It was very nice seeing and hearing purr down Highland Blvd. in Manhattan Beach last Sunday. Thanks Jeff, Andrew. From cak Mon Jun 2 22:45:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA06563; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 22:45:47 -0700 Received: from 204.140.219.47 (dial005w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.34]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id WAA01049 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 22:45:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3393B0A1.6A73@net-quest.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 22:51:37 -0700 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: Re: GT Car parts. References: <199705301715.KAA02078@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Kantarjiev wrote: > Another good source for this kind of part is GT Car Parts somewhere > in AZ, 602 780 2200. He has a lot of stuff, but not as much > detailed knowledge as some of the others. I've gotten some stuff from these guy's, the story is: Bill - owns the place, a little flakey and for some reason not too on the ball, but a hell of a nice guy. Dave - Works for bill, and actually does the work. Seems to know alot more about the older parts for some reason. But I still have to do things like measure seals etc, to get the right one. Also, don't call them after 4PM pacific time, it's shipping time and any distraction alway's seems to piss them off. While we are on the recomendation list, has anyone purchased any of the paints from Eastwood. They have products called "Radiator Black" "Chassis Black" and "aluma blast" which they claim are right color for older car restorations. Just Wondering. Andrew. From cak Tue Jun 3 09:34:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01622; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:34:30 -0700 Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:34:30 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199706031634.JAA01622@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: abrent@net-quest.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: GT Car parts. I bought some Eastwood Chassis Black and was underwhelmed. It's possible that I didn't prep the surface well, but it applied poorly and chipped easily. I much prefer Zynolite epoxy black for chassis parts. The radiator black, on the other hand, did a really nice job on the last radiator I resprayed. From cak Fri Jun 6 03:34:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id DAA06868; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 03:34:48 -0700 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (kpietila@lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id NAA172244 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 13:34:41 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.3/8.6.7) id NAA11822 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 13:34:41 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199706061034.NAA11822@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: 275 GTB/4S Nart Spyders To: ferrari-vintage Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 13:34:41 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greg asked me to pass this on to the list as he was experiencing some problems mailing to the list: (I'm having trouble with all other things myself - my brand new machine is well spread all over the table and I'm wired at the moment only because I was smart enough to pick an ancient 2400-modem out of the dustbin at work - one that doesn't work reliably, I learned later...) > "This message is from Greg (grossier@pop-server.unil.ch). Send the answers > to him or to the list. > > Dear Ferraristi, > > I would like to build models (at scale 1/18) of the 10 275 GTB/4 NART > spyders. Although I know the colors of body and interior of all, it would be > better for me to have a picture of each (for example, I know that not all > had Borranis). If someone knows the source of pictures in magazines or > books, please tell me. I have already pictures for 10691 & 10749(Cavallino > 97) and 11057. Thank you. > > Best regards. Greg." From cak Fri Jun 6 17:49:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA04369; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 17:49:24 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad55-238.compuserve.com [199.174.187.238]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA18921 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 17:49:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199706070049.RAA18921@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Boxer Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 19:16:34 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I went back to the dealer where I drove the C4 and 365 2+2 last week. I asked if I could sit in the Boxer; although I had no interest in buying it. The guy said sure. I thought I might get up the nerve to ask to drive it later. HOWEVER, after getting in, there was no way I could drive it. (He warned me that it was a tight fit!) Sliding the seat all the way back, my legs are still bent a lot at the knee. The gear shift is located to the left of the console, as opposed to in the middle. This results in the shift knob fitting quite nicely in the bottom of my knee! I had to tilt my head sideways just to clear the ceiling, unless I put enough rake on the seat that I looked like a low rider. The plane of the steering wheel sits, at least for me, at an angle. i.e. the right side of the wheel is 1-2 inches farther away from the driver than the left side! Quite awkward, but I think that's the design. All in all, an interesting, if frustrating 'driving' experience. Regards, Bryan From cak Sat Jun 7 11:23:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01899; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 11:23:54 -0700 Received: from 204.140.219.78 (dial054w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.83]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id LAA14432 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 11:18:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3399A734.310A@net-quest.com> Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 11:24:02 -0700 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: Re GT car parts. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I posted something about GT car parts about a week ago. A fellow in San Deigo who is currently building a GTO replica tells me that Marranello parts is cheaper than everyone, in particuar the rubber doughnut in the drive shaft was $100.00 cheaper from them, over GT and the rest. So there you have it, shop around. Andrew. P.S. I haven't purchased anything from them yet. Has anyone. From cak Sun Jun 8 11:14:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA02184; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:14:03 -0700 Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:14:03 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199706081814.LAA02184@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: abrent@net-quest.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Re GT car parts. That's an interesting change - it used to be that GT Car Parts had the reputation of being a lot cheaper than Rudd, but Rudd knew the cars better. Maybe now that they've moved to Georgia, their overhead is less and they charge less... From cak Thu Jun 12 19:10:49 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA04471; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 19:10:47 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (dd24-062.compuserve.com [199.174.181.62]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA19626 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 1997 19:10:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199706130210.TAA19626@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: More pictures Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 19:00:59 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Who would like electronic files of photos of the C4 and 365 GT 2+2 I drove? ZIPPED Tif files...about 800k each. (2 photos per file) GT 2+2 exterior GT 2+2 interior C4 exterior C4 interior C4 engine Regards, Bryan From cak Sun Jun 22 11:58:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA02134; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 11:58:15 -0700 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout08.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id OAA09068 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:57:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 14:57:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970622145738_1012205004@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Auto Quarterly article Well, gang, my article on Ferrari touring cars is finally scheduled to run in the issue after next of Automobile Quarterly. Am busy snapping a few more photos and would appreciate pro-level shots of a 412 and/or 330 America and Series I 330 2+2. Thanks to those who have already helped - it's been a long haul. Hope you like it. Harold Pace From cak Sun Jun 22 22:50:17 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA05444; Sun, 22 Jun 1997 22:50:15 -0700 Received: by hil-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id BAA06607; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:49:42 -0400 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 01:49:23 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: AQ Contributor To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199706230149_MC2-1905-A36F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Harold: Congratulations on putting together your piece on Ferrari touring cars an= d having it accepted for publication by as prestigious a publication as AQ.= = As a former professional wordsmith, I can say with some certainty that writers hate to write. They do, however, absolutely love to have written= =2E = Which is a cute way of saying that the really hard part is getting off yo= ur good intentions and confronting the empty page. Nice going. Please let = us know when it's on the newsstands. As for photos, the only bona fide 330 America I know of used to be in a remote corner of San Diego, owned by a doctor who was really bad about returning phone calls. Last time I saw it, about 12 years ago, it was in= nice condition -- and at about that same time I was still a pretty fair photographer. I'll try this guy again, and if I have any luck, I'll let you know. Best, Dave Booth From cak Mon Jun 23 14:38:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA03484; Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:38:15 -0700 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:38:15 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199706232138.OAA03484@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: build sheets Yesterday was the Palo Alto Concours; the Pacific Region of FCA put on a 100-or-so car concours as a triubte for the 50th anniversary. Not many early cars - a 166 MM and a 500 Mondial, a few 250 TdFs, a 250 GTE, a couple of GTCs and a queen mother. A fair number of Daytonas. (after the National in '94, I'm afraid I'm rather jaded by "small" turnouts like this!) Pat and I were intently studying engine vent assemblies, since we have some questions that ours was put together properly. We met the gentleman who put one of the cars together, Brian Crall, and he told us several things that weren't immediately obvious. It would seem that we might have things together properly after all, but I'll have to check carefully. I mentioned something about info on late Series II cars being hard to come by; that the documentation never seemed to get updated. He said that it often helps to get the build sheets, and I lamented that our efforts had not been successful. He said he had an FNA contact who had been successful in the past, and I should call him. So I did today. Sure enough, John Amette, who's answering machine says he's the Western Technical Manager for FNA. I leave a message. He called back just now. The short version is that no one can get any build sheets from the factory. He was just there trying to get information for someone in San Diego who has 18 Ferraris, just got a 250MM and wanted to confirm data; Mr. Amette was able to *see* the build sheets and make notes, but not make a copy. Apparently during the height of the silly market, the Factory's liberal policy led to lots of people asking for build sheets for cars they didn't own; brokers, in particular, would do this. He said sometimes the Factory would get five requests for the same car, because five brokers were trying to get the car to sell. Anyway, in the late 80s they started charging $300 for a set, and they finally clamped down and made it impossible. There are apparently a number of legal difficulties that have arisen out of the previous liberal policy - he didn't elaborate, but I assume that it has to do with cars being accurately forged, based on info in the build sheets. Maybe the policy will change some day. From cak Tue Jun 24 10:47:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA02114; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 10:47:41 -0700 Received: from lk-hp-8.hut.fi (lk-hp-8.hut.fi [130.233.248.95]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id UAA115722 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:47:34 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-8.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id UAA29939 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:47:41 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199706241747.UAA29939@lk-hp-8.hut.fi> Subject: Sheets and other things... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 20:47:41 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've heard that at the worst times a *lot* of people contacted the factory every day claiming they were writing book or articles about this and that and that expecting the factory to hand out them what ever they wanted for what ever reason there might be... On the same time Lord Brocket was selling a 250 GT Swb Steel Coupe reclothed with a brand new alloy body + competition gear verified by tampered factory assembly sheet copies... First they got very reluctant to hand out sheets - and even charged good money in case they agreed to do so. Mr Makela told me that they had to pay a lot (something between 500-1000 US Dollars) before they even were willing to check if they had anything for the Monza (0568M) he had discovered with his brother. Then for a short period of time the Museum took over the whole thing the company policy strictly forbid the handing out of the sheets... Various enthusiasts have copies of sheets in their archives: Marcel Massini for one has sheets for 7703, 8485 and 9757 (all 330 GT 2+2) and Gerald Roush might have others... Worth getting copies of those to figure out what the one for your own car might say...? About the Castrol smell: Was it the smell of castor oil (Ricinus Communis) that was used in early high performance oils like Castrol R for its ability to stand high temperatures better than any other lubricant of its time? Dave: Thanks for the articles... Len: 10 points for the picture on the GTE-register cover - where did you find it...? From cak Thu Jun 26 20:42:36 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA05149; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:42:34 -0700 Received: by dub-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id XAA02031; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:41:55 -0400 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 23:41:32 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: GTE cop car To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199706262341_MC2-1951-1855@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Hi all: I'm sure we've all heard or read vague snippets about the 250 GTE that th= e Italian police used as a pursuit car. Well, get your hands on the current (June) issue of Thorobred & Classic Car. It's on newsstands now and has a yellow MGB on the cover. But to hell with the MGB: inside there's a 3-page spread on this famously obscu= re pursuit vehicle. = Not exactly an exhaustive salon-type article, but definitely fun and well= worth a trip to the local Borders or Bookstar. The car is listed as 1962= production, and looks to be in gorgeous shape and turned out in its original Polizia livery. I was really tickled to see that it's even the same color combination as mine -- dark blue with cinnamon interior. There's even an amusing photo that's presumably a re-creation of the car = in action, with a Figure Of Authority zooming along holding a red reflector gizmo out of the window with his free hand. What was that about? If you= didn't pull over with the proper alacrity and respect, the Figure would maybe pull alongside and tap you on the noggin with it? Check it out. Best, Dave Booth From cak Sat Jun 28 10:02:50 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01491; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 10:02:47 -0700 Received: by arl-img-8.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id MAA11894; Sat, 28 Jun 1997 12:58:45 -0400 Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 12:58:30 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: GTE cop car To: LEN MILLER , vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199706281258_MC2-196E-D2CF@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Hi Lenzio: I don't want to spoil the interest of the article for you, 'cause it real= ly is worth getting, but your comments are basically borne out by what the magazine reports. Seems the Polizia guy wanted twenty cars. The Drake, ever the realist, apparently said, "..hows about two.." The coppers wrecked one of 'em on= the first day, but the salon car put in 80,000 km in the hands of one of the aces of the force. The deal about a hot pursuit down the steps of a well known Roman landmar= k in the car apparently happened too (nothing fragile about a vintage Ferrari), and was later immortalized in a Euro movie. Best, Dave = From cak Wed Jul 2 11:06:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01891; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:06:37 -0700 Received: from 207.213.5.57 (du57-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.57]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.8.6/8.7) with SMTP id KAA15694 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:35:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33BA3663.6C3D@net-quest.com> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 11:07:25 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Build Sheets Et, el. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I too have gone the "find the build sheets route". With no success whatsoever I might add. What I was able to get however, and may be usefull to some people, is a letter from FNA "confirming" the USAness of my car and that the engine gearbox and chassis all left the factory together and what it was orginally painted like. This was helpful to me as I was researching the original colour to see if I would like that better than Rosso Cherro, which is what I have now. If anyone want's details of whom I spoke too, faxed too, and what I got let me know. IF the build sheet stuff ever gets resolved, and quite frankly I'm positive given that the state of the market is driven now more by enthusisast's than fraud, I'll be the second in line for one. (that's right after the guy who tells me about it) Regards, Andrew. From cak Thu Jul 3 14:15:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA02742; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:15:46 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad75-160.compuserve.com [199.174.200.160]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA16080 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:15:09 -0700 Message-Id: <199707032115.OAA16080@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: GTE Register Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:59:37 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Len: I hope to get the S/Ns for the 2 GTEs here in Houston. FYI, I was out of town the last two weeks in the Northwest. I stopped by Autoclassic (Bob Leflufy's place in Vancouver) to look at a C4. He has a black 1960 GTE with a sunroof! The mechanic told me that they had found the car after about 15 years of storage. The sunroof is not original. The interior and body are in poor condition. They haven't had a chance to start it yet, so I don't know about the engine. If you want to get the S/N, call Bob at 604-983-2662. Fax is 2624. Sorry I didn't get it myself, but they were pretty busy when I stopped in unannounced. Regards, Bryan From cak Fri Jul 4 19:59:46 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA03843; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 19:59:43 -0700 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hil-img-1.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.1) id WAA19061 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 22:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 22:58:43 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Leaf springs To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199707042258_MC2-1A43-EBAE@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Hi all: I'm closing in on having the cab stripped down a bare shell, but when I disconnected the rear leaf springs from the axle today, I was greeted by one unexpected "extra" part on the shop floor. It was the rear half of t= he bottom spring leaf. It had obviously been broken quite a while, and was just trapped in place by the spring shackle. Anybody know whether I can use any old spring of the same thickness and simply trim it to length, or do leaf springs have rates just like coil springs? As an example, the front coils on a GTE have different rates (higher on the right) to compensate for the engine's torque. I swear. Happy 4th of July, Dave Booth From cak Thu Jul 10 21:46:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA03275; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 21:46:44 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA11175 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:15:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707091415.JAA11175@dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com> Received: from bal-md7-25.ix.netcom.com(206.214.133.57) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma011154; Wed Jul 9 09:15:13 1997 Subject: Re: GTE cop car Date: Wed, 9 Jul 97 10:19:15 -0400 From: Bruce Rippey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I was privileged several years ago, when visiting the Maranello Rosso museum in San Marino with a small group of Ferrari enthusiasts, to be treated to a very exciting ride in this car. The owner claimed that the factory tweaked the engine of the two police models to GTO specifications, and seat-of-the-pants impressions suggest that this may well be true, having had a ride in a 250 GTO also. -Bruce From cak Sat Jul 12 10:15:04 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01006; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:15:01 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (dd66-237.dub.compuserve.com [199.174.207.237]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA15814 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:14:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199707121714.KAA15814@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Ferrari humor Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:12:13 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My Italian friend told me the following. It seems this fellow, let's call him Joe, died and went to heaven where everything was perfect...except there were no Ferraris. So Joe went to St. Peter and said 'hey, if heaven is perfect, then there should be Ferraris here, as they are the perfect car and they do have a soul' After much negotiation, St. Peter gave Joe a Ferrari on the condition that he could only sit in it...never drive it. Joe thought he would be satisfied. Well, that worked for about 2 days. Then Joe went back to St. Peter and told him that sitting and not driving was worse than not having a Ferrari at all. So again, after much discussion, St. Peter let Joe drive the car but no faster that 20 miles per hour (my Italian friend converted from kilometers so his poor American friend would understand.) So, Joe is driving around on the outskirts of heaven at 20 mph when an F50 went by at about 190. Now, Joe was quite upset, so he went back to St. Peter again and said "How come that guy gets to drive his Ferrari so fast and I don't. I saw his license plate and it started with NA, so he must be from Naples and why does a Neopolitan get better treatment than me?" St. Peter said "Don't get so upset about that F50. The NA is not Naples...it is Nazareth and the driver is the owner's son." Regards, Bryan From cak Sat Jul 12 13:45:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA01529; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:45:19 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd29-242.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.220.242]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA14842 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 13:44:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199707122044.NAA14842@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Borrani wheels Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 15:30:43 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have an idea what the delta cost of a set of Borranis vs. Cromodoras would be for a 365 GTC4? 15 x 7.5. I'm hearing numbers like $3000!! Regards, Bryan From cak Mon Jul 14 09:27:33 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA00785; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:27:31 -0700 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout30.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id MAA19323 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:27:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:27:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970714122442_1078743865@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Enzo's car experts? Ran across an article in Car and Driver (July, 1965) with an article on Enzo called "Enzo off guard" by Julius Weitmann. It is a photo essay of Enzo going out to lunch with John Surtees and assorted hangers-on. There are two photos of Enzo with a 330 2+2. It is a four-headlight Series I, but there are odd differences. It has big chrome rectangular air conditioning vents on the center console and it has two small driving lights in the grill. Stranger, the copy says it is a "5-liter Superamerica". I am guessing it is simply wrong, but does anyone know of a 330 with Superamerica mill that Enzo used? I know he made a GTE with Superfast engine, so did he do something similar here? Harold Pace From cak Tue Jul 15 07:36:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA00576; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 07:36:10 -0700 Received: from lk-hp-22.hut.fi (lk-hp-22.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id RAA76242 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:35:34 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by lk-hp-22.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id RAA22425 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:35:47 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199707151435.RAA22425@lk-hp-22.hut.fi> Subject: Enzo's car experts? To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:35:46 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Ran across an article in Car and Driver (July, 1965) with an article on Enzo > called "Enzo off guard" by Julius Weitmann. It is a photo essay of Enzo going > out to lunch with John Surtees and assorted hangers-on. There are two photos > of Enzo with a 330 2+2. It is a four-headlight Series I, but there are odd > differences. It has big chrome rectangular air conditioning vents on the > center console and it has two small driving lights in the grill. Stranger, > the copy says it is a "5-liter Superamerica". I am guessing it is simply > wrong, but does anyone know of a 330 with Superamerica mill that Enzo used? I > know he made a GTE with Superfast engine, so did he do something similar > here? Enzo supposedly used the first standard 330 GT 2+2 S.1 4963GT for a period of time. It is said that he later only drove Fiat's because Italian law strangely banned senior people (65 and over) from driving ith performance cars... I have never heard of a 330 based speciale with bigger engine. I don't say it isn't possible that they either built or converted one, but likely they mixed the whole thing with 2947GT - which is believed to have been 4-litre GTE built as early as 1961. Strangely one 500 Superfast is believed to have been built using 330-engine. The car was the last of 12 Series 1 Superfasts built for Prince Bernhard of Holland in 1965 (6267SA). From cak Fri Jul 18 21:19:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA03372; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 21:19:32 -0700 Received: from 204.140.219.73 (dial037w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.66]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id VAA24037 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 21:18:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33D04180.659D@net-quest.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 21:25:40 -0700 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: Head Gasket's Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I am nearing completion of the water pump/radiator/water pipe project and have been reading alot in the mean time. I might be paranoid but the more I think about it the more I think I may have a blown head gasket on the GT/E I have read something recently which say's DON't RUN THE CAR WITH A BLOWN HEAD GASKET so I guess I'm re-evaluating all the symptom's to see if I should pull the head's. I have funny colored oil, but the feeling is that it hasn't been changed in quite a while. I was going to change it an run the car. I am loosing coolant, but the weep hole on the water pump was like a gyser so I figured that was where it was going. I get white smoke, but prior to pulling the cooling system apart I didn't run the car for longer than about 15 min. Other than when she came home. I didn't notice the smoke then but I was concerned with other thing's. I live near the beach and the humidity is fairly high, so I had originaly thought that it might be condensation in the exhaust. The radiator had some residue of something that wasn't coolant, but the engine was rebuilt at some point and it isn't clear if the car has been run much since that had occured. Anyway, there it all is, any idea's / opinion's. regards, Andrew. From cak Sun Jul 20 23:05:16 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id XAA03188; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 23:05:14 -0700 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.2) id CAA23613 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 02:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 02:04:25 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Springs 'n things To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199707210204_MC2-1B3A-87AC@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Hi all: Got some garage time today after an 8-day trip. Got both sets of leaf springs off the cab and disassembled with the help of a tool patterned on= the one in Len's GTE handbook. In order to let the springs relax fully, the threaded rod portion would need to be quite a bit longer, and this would also deny one the thrill of releasing the spring assemblies all of = a sudden. So THAT's how catapults worked... Found a total of three broken leaves between the two assemblies, and will= be pursuing a solution to that particular problem with some spring expert= s in the course of the next few days. Since both Len and Bob have had similar experiences, I'm wondering what might be behind this very hard to= find problem. Simply a question of age on the components? Poor materials= ? = Hard use? The last day of my trip found me in Phoenix with three hours to kill, so = I looked up Bob Wallace, who had been recommended by Tom Shaughnessey as we= ll as a couple of my non-newsgroup friends as being fully capable of doing m= y engine block machine work. After I got done being amazed that he and his two mechanics were actually= able to work in the 106 degree heat, I noticed the following in his shop:= = A Lambo GT350, a Dino 246, a 330 GTC, an apparently replica TR that looke= d liked a cross between a '58-59 Testarossa and a 196S of about the same er= a, and a 275 GTS -- all in for engine work since Wallace gruffed that he was= too old to get under them anymore. Lots of gorgeous motors there too, most in various states of disassembly.= = I noticed some Lampredi heads; the engine for the TR, which Wallace said= was "..completely replica.." ( now how do you suppose you do that?); a V-12 dry sump motor (just a crudely welded up conventional sump); and a nearly finished late 1960s F1 V-12 with that alluring "basket of snakes" exhaust treatment all piled up on top of the motor. Oooooh. Unfortunately, Mr. W. was unwilling to give me even a ballpark number on what I could expect my little project to cost. "Just crate it up and sen= d it over. I'll look at it and tell you what it'll cost.." Oh good. I'll= just put the blank check over here, shall I? Can somebody help me place Bob Wallace? The name's awfully familiar. Take care. Don't smoke. Dave Booth From cak Mon Jul 21 06:32:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00366; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 06:32:15 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 9:36:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <970721093647.59ea1@idx.com> Subject: RE: Head Gasket's Andrew, It's definately not a good idea to run an engine that has a blown head gasket. Of course some gasket failures are worse than others. Lots of water in the oil is definately worse than oil in the water, since it will prevent the oil from providing proper lubrication. If there is enough water in the oil in the sump to cause it to change color then I would not run it. I guess I would start by changing the oil and by making sure that the coolant is relatively free from oil. Then I would run the engine cautiously and see if the oil goes off color or whatever. I have had head gaskets go in my Alfa, but not to the extent that the oil in the sump changes color, or that there is "standing water" in the sump. What does appear is a coffee colored froth that is about the same consistency as the milk froth on cappuccino. This froth appears around the filler cap, dipstick and any other place that allows the sump a place to vent. When this problem happened with the Alfa and with our Peugeot 504 there were major amounts of the stuff, like tablespoons full. I have always been a little worried about our GTE as occasionally small amounts of this froth appear on the breathers. This seems to happen in the spring and fall when the temperature is cool, so I have passed it off as condensation. Certainly these engines, and the way they breath straight to the outside air, causes them to condense a lot of water. There has never been any water in the oil in the sump and a good drive makes this moisture go away. Is the head gasket seeping or is this condensate -- I'm not sure but suspect that it is the latter. The problems in the Alfa and Peugeot were very persistent and the foam just kept building up no matter how much the car was driven and in both cases, headgasket replacement fixed the problem. Good Luck -- Hope this helps Bob From cak Mon Jul 21 08:34:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA00693; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:34:36 -0700 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout15.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id LAA28520; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:33:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:33:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970721113255_1758917117@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: 104375.2245@compuserve.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Springs 'n things Dave, Sounds like quite a project. You might want to talk to Bob Norwood (972 or 214 : they just changed the area code-try both)-831-8111. I heard Bob had new springs made up for an alloy 250 Boano that he was setting up for vintage racing a while back (10 yers ago or so). Harold Pace From cak Wed Jul 23 22:55:39 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA04224; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:55:37 -0700 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.2) id BAA07609 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 01:55:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 01:54:44 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Warning! Warning! Danger, Will Robinson! To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199707240154_MC2-1B7E-B70E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Fellow GTE owners: Just got the latest issue of the GTE Newsletter and wanted to alert you t= o a potential land mine laying innocently right there on page six.. Len lists a phone number in Texas for someone selling GTE body parts. Be= warned: this phone number connects the unwary to one Mike Thompson -- a crook of the first water. This miserable snake bilked me out of some considerable money a couple of years ago, claiming he had a GTE driver's side door ".. in perfect condition..", which I had been seeking for some time. I suppose the red flag shoulda gone up when he insisted that I wir= e him the money for the door because he was going out of town and we had to= get this done right away. Dumb, trusting me -- of course wired him the money. What I received was a door so rusty it was literally falling apart of its= own weight when picked up. My astonishment only deepened when I got him = on the phone and questioned how anyone could consider this door perfect, and= he replied in his most sanguine tones, ".. well, I thought you could use the (window) frame..". = He promised to return my money, which of course never happened, and after= not returning my next 20 calls, moved. I called him at this new number from the Newsletter and pounced on him when he revealed his identity. I got a fresh promise to send my money back, and a deeply aggrieved attitud= e in the bargain. Naturally I'm not making plans to spend the refund. Stay far, far away from this character. He and another bozo from Oregon named Tim Chinn are the twin reasons I only buy parts from someone I don'= t know by COD (check). Best, Dave Booth From cak Thu Jul 24 11:25:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01492; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:25:18 -0700 Received: from 204.140.219.65 (dial036w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.65]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA15142 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33D74344.3488@net-quest.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 11:58:00 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari-Vintage List Subject: 330 America. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Guy's, I just got back from a quick two day trip to San Francisco. I was hoping to see a couple of people and places up there but didn't really end up with any time, but, I decided to forgo my scheduled return and make a quick detour to Santa Rosa to look at a 330 America for sale. What a car,,,, Firstly, impressions. Enzo really cleaned up the 250GTE by this model, front clip is obviously just like the series III car's I've seen, but the back looks much better with dual side bumpers and licence plate frame under the trunklid. Rear fender's are slightly flared as well, I think to accomodate the 3812 Borrani's. The 209 motor pulls like a freight train from low rev's, making the car seem lighter. But it also seemed alot noiser than the 128 motor, but maybee just because the rear muffler on the driver's side was shot. This particular car is S/N 5009, it's all matching #'s as far as I could see with silver paint and red interior. Cosmetic condition was excellent with only a few detail things missing, mechanically however, someone would need to go through all rubber lines and bushings and replace them. Price, a mere $43500.00 I would love to buy this car but probably will not. There you have it, any other question's, just give me a email, Andrew. From cak Sun Jul 27 10:39:34 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01050; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:39:31 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd62-252.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.242.252]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA29139; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:38:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199707271738.KAA29139@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: , "Ferrari-Vintage List" Subject: Re: 330 America. Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 10:56:44 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew, what dealer was carrying this car? I don't know who is in Santa Rosa. Regards, Bryan From cak Tue Jul 29 23:27:29 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id XAA04499; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:27:26 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-3.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.2) id CAA24550 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 02:26:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 02:26:32 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Shady characters To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199707300226_MC2-1BE8-9F6A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Hi all: I've been offline for the better part of a week, and finally tonight decided to scrape off cabriolet dirt a little early and clean out my mailbox. Bob Pace: I really have no idea where in Texas the shifty Mr. Thompson calls home. Check the current issue of the GTE newsletter for the area code, and the phone company will tell you. Although initially surprised into a submissive mode by my masterfully crafted ambush, Thompson's attitude turned screechy after he went and got a pen to take down my address to return my money. This is of course something he promised to d= o more than three years ago too. Guess I'll have to be satisfied with pouncing on him the other day, as I have no expectation of ever actually seeing my money. I do still have his number, tho'.... maybe I'll just ca= ll him once a week at about my bedtime here. Adding two hours for the difference in time zones..... this begins to look like fun. Len: I'm surprised to hear about the Thompson ad mention being from Hemmings. After this character burned me on an ad placed in that venerab= le and valuable publication, I complained bitterly to the publisher, and he promised not to accept an ad from Thompson in the future. Was the ad you= reproduced in the newsletter from a recent issue of HMN? We've got the makings of a pretty good lynch mob for Tim Chinn, and the sentiment about Steve Piantieri isn't too far behind. I'd put in a rathe= r uncomplimentary note or two about a notorious flake named Oliver Kuttner from the eastern Virginia area if I thought he was still actively selling= parts. = What do you guys reckon it is about so many purveyors of early Ferrari parts? Did the rise in the market cause the sharks to buy out the good people? Nice to be back with y'all, Dave Booth From cak Thu Jul 31 10:24:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01336; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:24:12 -0700 Received: from kataja.hut.fi (kpietila@kataja.hut.fi [130.233.248.96]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.8.2) with ESMTP id UAA85044 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:23:28 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by kataja.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id UAA10325 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:24:14 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199707311724.UAA10325@kataja.hut.fi> Subject: Springs 'n things To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:24:13 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Found a total of three broken leaves between the two assemblies, and will > be pursuing a solution to that particular problem with some spring experts > in the course of the next few days. Since both Len and Bob have had > similar experiences, I'm wondering what might be behind this very hard to > find problem. Simply a question of age on the components? Poor materials? Either poor materials or poorly controlled quenching and stress relieving combined with lots of hard work over a long period of time - these cars weigh a _lot_ by European standards... > I noticed some Lampredi heads; the engine for the TR, which Wallace said > was "..completely replica.." ( now how do you suppose you do that?); a Some people have manufactured redesigned blocks for air cooled VW's to be able to add extra capasity and strength (Original magnesium-blocks easily spit out all oil when the distortion of the block makes the central seam smile under the maximum torque of the high performance engine...) Casting a water-cooled silumin-block would be a different story - even if it wasn't a V12... or was it a four-banger engine for 500TR? That might be feasible as the cars cost a *lot* and you can't pick replacement blocks out of undervalued production 4-seaters... Doing the mould cores for cooling water jacket will cost a small fortune and more even in case you are able to cut the destroyed block into halves and use it as a model... From cak Fri Aug 1 22:53:40 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA04626; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 22:53:13 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-10.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.2) id BAA19660 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 2 Aug 1997 01:52:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 01:44:33 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: All-repro V-12 To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199708020144_MC2-1C28-37F0@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline So guys: Kare's comment about the "100% repro TR motor" that Bob Wallace pointed o= ut to me in his Phoenix shop is, as always, informed and interesting. It was a 12-holer all right, complete with 4-bolt main bearing caps. = According to Gerald Roush, the block in my cabriolet is a TR-spec block, and it's got the regulation 2-bolt mains. I keep getting more confused about this motor configuration stuff all the time. My question about how one might go about building up a completely replica= V-12 TR motor was mostly for fun. But I do remember a few years ago at t= he height of the Ferrari market, that a Dutch company called Roelofs was offering beautiful looking brand new repro motor castings (saw photos of the block and timing case) that they were offering to folks that needed them. My recollection is that the block went for something like $20k US.= = It would seem hideously expensive to undertake a project like casting new= versions of these components, but I guess if you're talking about a TR, it's all relative. Monterey time is almost here. Could I get a show of hands for who's goin= g; what days and where you're staying? Len Miller's party seems like a natural for the GTE guys, but we've at least got to shake hands and say hello face-to-face. Regards, Dave Booth From cak Sat Aug 2 00:28:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id AAA05028; Sat, 2 Aug 1997 00:28:28 -0700 Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 00:28:28 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199708020728.AAA05028@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: 104375.2245@compuserve.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: All-repro V-12 Pat and I will be in Monterey for the Hysterics; we'll be wearing white, camping at the gun range and working corners. Chances are we'll bring our camping car, the Morris, instead of 9161. We usually go down Thursday afternoon and work two and play one of the next days; haven't decided which yet. Would love to meet some of you folks if we can figure a way! I won't take a computer and I don'tknow if our new PCS phone works on the peninsula... From cak Sat Aug 2 14:57:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA02611; Sat, 2 Aug 1997 14:57:22 -0700 From: GT40MIRAGE@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout03.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id RAA26930 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com(vintageferrarilist); Sat, 2 Aug 1997 17:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 17:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970802175621_620533042@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: ferrari-vintage (vintageferrarilist) Subject: MONTEREY 97 SCHEDULE I HAVE A BOOTH AT CONCOURS ITALIANO. I WILL HAVE MISC NEAT PARTS SPINNERS SOME LITERATURE PICTURES OF CARS FOR SALE SOME WHEELS ETC. AN ITALIAN JUNK YARD. I ENCOURAGE ALL TO STOP BY. IF THERE ARE ANY SPECIFIC PARTS ANYONE NEED BROUGHT UP PLEASE LET ME KNOW AHEAD OF TIME I WILL BRING IT WITH ME. TOM SHAUGHNESSY From cak Sun Aug 3 11:10:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01262; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 11:10:41 -0700 Received: from 204.140.219.79 (dial043w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.72]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA26607 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 11:10:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33E4CB2A.6970@net-quest.com> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 11:17:23 -0700 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vintage Ferrari list Subject: Re: Montereyidge References: <199708020144_MC2-1C28-37F0@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Monterey time is almost here. Could I get a show of hands for who's going; My hand's up, but I've gone on and on about going to Monterey I'd be surprized if anyone doesn't know I'll be there. Just a re-cap, Staying at Casa Munra's, if you stop by just look for the noisy Aston Martin guy's as I'll be in falling about with them. (and no doubt getting crap due to my non-aston status, but I'll probably put on a pommy accent and tell them all I'll David Brown's illigitimate son...). I'll have a phone which should be working, it's 310-502-0888 so anyone can call me on that for meetage, I'll probably know where Dave Booth has propped himself up and I will be at Len's Miller's hoedown on the Friday night. Other than that, arrival Thursday, Italiano early friday, races saturday, auction friday, maybee Pebble beach early sunday, go home Sunday. See ya'll there, Andrew. From cak Wed Aug 6 08:28:44 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA00777; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 08:28:41 -0700 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout13.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id LAA05148 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:28:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:28:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970806112722_-1372907923@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: A.T.S. info? Here's an obscure question with a Ferrari connection. In 1962, a number of Ferraris' key personnel left to form a new company called ATS. They built a very nice GT coupe and some very rotten F1 cars. Does anyone out there have information on them (other than Sept. 1964 Road and Track)? Am looking for owners, ex-owners and photos for a prospective article. Thanks, Harold Pace Pacecars@aol.com 972-251-1460 From cak Tue Aug 12 20:48:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA03574; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 20:48:10 -0700 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id XAA05214 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 23:47:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 23:47:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970812234659_-1706326882@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Australian 250 Pf coupe racer? Was reading in an old Brooklands' reprint book about a right-hand-drive 250 Pf coupe (disc brake) that was raced at Bathurst and Longford by David McKay. Original owner was Sydney yatchman Tony Oxley. Does anyone know what happened to it or what the chassis number was? Just curious, Harold Pace 330 2+2 From cak Wed Aug 13 20:49:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA03837; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 20:49:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 20:49:46 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199708140349.UAA03837@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Historics plans It would appear that Pat and I both have to work on Thursday (the day we planned to head down) and at least part of Friday; we will try to make it to Len's party, but it's entirely possible that we'll only get there at the very end. Look for us on a corner at the race track! From cak Wed Aug 20 08:12:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA00654; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:12:01 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA04425; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 10:11:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199708201511.KAA04425@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> Received: from bal-md7-25.ix.netcom.com(206.214.133.57) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma004201; Wed Aug 20 10:10:40 1997 Subject: Re: A.T.S. info? Date: Wed, 20 Aug 97 11:11:12 -0400 From: Bruce Rippey To: "Harold Pace" , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Harold - Did you ever get a reply re/ your query about ATS? If you'd like, I can copy a brief writeup by Michael Sedgwick from The Complete Encyclopedia of Motorcars. It is strictly a thumbnail description, lacking detail which you may require. The R&T article probably tells more. Let me know... -Bruce From cak Thu Aug 28 22:55:40 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA03647; Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:55:36 -0700 Received: from 207.213.5.54 (du54-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.54]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id WAA21265 for ; Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:55:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34066605.35BB@net-quest.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 23:02:55 -0700 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: Stuff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We're all a bit quiet lately... Chris, how was it as flag dude on the turn's at Luguna. David, how's that cab comming along, completly stripped yet. Anyone got any question's. Later, Andrew. From cak Fri Aug 29 22:26:28 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA04108; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 22:26:25 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-10.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.5) id BAA21371 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 01:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 01:25:27 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: Stuff To: "INTERNET:abrent@net-quest.com" Message-ID: <199708300125_MC2-1EA3-6DFE@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Hi Group: Andrew, the cab's down to just the doors left to take off, but I'm having= the Devil's own time getting the painted-over hinge pins driven out of th= e driver's side door. Next on the agenda will be buying a rotisserie fixture and hoisting the whole works up on it so I can begin the process of scraping the undercoating off before the car visits the powder blaster. Somebody let = me know when we get to the fun part, okay? Could be worse. Mine could be as bad as the later cab under restoration = at Classic European (check out their ad in the Prova on-line magazine). Tha= t car's rusted way worse (I hope) than mine. We'll know soon. Anyone have anything to say about their Monterey experiences for the guys= too far away to make it? Regards, Dave Booth From cak Sat Aug 30 04:52:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id EAA04990; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 04:52:25 -0700 Received: from unknown (ad65-158.compuserve.com [199.174.193.158]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA20558; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 04:51:48 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199708300125_MC2-1EA3-6DFE@compuserve.com> References: Conversation <199708300125_MC2-1EA3-6DFE@compuserve.com> with last message <199708300125_MC2-1EA3-6DFE@compuserve.com> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: "David Booth" <104375.2245@compuserve.com>, "INTERNET:abrent@net-quest.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Bryan Cashion" Subject: Re: Stuff Date: Sat, 30 Aug 97 06:50:00 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You'll know when the fun part is there, because we'll all be at your door= to help drive the completed car! ---------- > Hi Group: > > undercoating off before the car visits the powder blaster. Somebody = let me > know when we get to the fun part, okay? > > Regards, > Dave Booth From cak Thu Sep 4 10:51:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01422; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 10:51:06 -0700 Received: from kataja.hut.fi (kpietila@kataja.hut.fi [130.233.248.40]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA219724 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:50:29 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by kataja.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id UAA22809 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:51:00 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199709041751.UAA22809@kataja.hut.fi> Subject: 250 GT pf coupes... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 20:51:00 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there a register for 250 GT Pininfarina Coupes held anywhere? Just started to wonder that what I know about these cars sure isn't much... Just had our GTE moved from a closing Museum to another... (I love to get these messages: "Hey, were closing the place, can you drop by and arrenge your car to be removed... er let me see... by tomorrow... preferable before 2:00 pm...?") I've arranged it to be serviced - nothing but oil change and new cooling water, but hey, that's more attention than it has received in the past 20 years. This new place holds its show for a year and then we have to find her a new place. That suits my plans; I have a year on me to convince my father-in-law on that it's time to do her... Another 20 years in a dead museum and we'll have nothing to start working on! From cak Sat Sep 6 04:47:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id EAA04916; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 04:47:27 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd73-010.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.253.10]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id EAA27473 for ; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 04:46:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199709061146.EAA27473@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Fw: The unknown Ferrari Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 06:45:35 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have received a a photo of a Ferrari that was taken by a member of the other list. We are quite sure this is a Touring berlinetta and probably a 275S (later re-engined to a 340 America). However, it might be a 166MM/195S/212 Export. If anyone is interested in getting the file to throw in their 30 lire worth, let me know. It's a 263k JPEG file. Regards, Bryan From cak Sat Sep 6 06:41:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00434; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 06:41:37 -0700 From: GT40MIRAGE@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id JAA17585; Sat, 6 Sep 1997 09:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 09:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970906094100_-1233066201@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: cashion@sprynet.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: WANTED OLD FERRARI I AM IN THE MARKET TO PURCHASE, FOR MYSELF!! NOT RESALE!! 212, 410 SUPERAMERICA, SPECIAL BODIED MASERATI , EUROPA ANYTHING REALLY NEAT. FINDER FEES PAID, MAKE SOME MONEY ON THAT OLD BARN CAR YOU HAVEN'T TOLD ANYONE ABOUT. From cak Sun Sep 7 04:38:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id EAA04039; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 04:38:13 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad03-060.compuserve.com [199.174.130.60]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id EAA07735 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 04:37:38 -0700 Message-Id: <199709071137.EAA07735@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Unknown Touring berlinetta Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 06:35:32 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My earlier note referenced a photo of a Touring Berlinetta that could have been any of a number of cars. I noticed that the photo shows thae car has a door sticker that is probably for the modern MM. The latest Prancing Horse has a list of the Ferraris that participated in the 1997 MM. The only Touring Berlinetta on the list is a 340 America, driven by Tillack and Jones. S/N 0126. Acording to Eaton, there were only 2 340 America Touring Berlinettas, 0122 and 0126. They were both re-engined cars that started out as a 275S. Regards, Bryan From cak Mon Sep 8 05:53:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA00301; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 05:53:36 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 8:58:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <970908085831.3cd93@idx.com> Subject: FWD: Fw: The unknown Ferrari >I have received a a photo of a Ferrari that was taken by a member of the >other list. We are quite sure this is a Touring berlinetta and probably a >275S (later re-engined to a 340 America). However, it might be a >166MM/195S/212 Export. If anyone is interested in getting the file to throw >in their 30 lire worth, let me know. It's a 263k JPEG file. >Regards, >Bryan If it was one of the 275S's it was #0032 as 0030MT is quietly awaiting repairs at its home here in VT. I thought that these cars were barchettas or am I confused because the current, non original body on 0030 is such? Bob From cak Mon Sep 8 17:43:38 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA04483; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:43:31 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad31-190.compuserve.com [199.174.134.190]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA07878; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:40:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199709090040.RAA07878@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Bob" , Subject: Re: Fw: The unknown Ferrari Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:34:31 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I should have caught it earlier, but 0030 and 0032 are both barchettas, but the photo that Sandra took is a berlinetta. It's a 340 America S/N 0126 A. Neither it nor 0122 A, the other Touring 340 America were re-engined. They both started life as 340 Americas. Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: Bob > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: FWD: Fw: The unknown Ferrari > Date: Monday, September 08, 1997 7:58 AM > > >I have received a a photo of a Ferrari that was taken by a member of the > >other list. We are quite sure this is a Touring berlinetta and probably a > >275S (later re-engined to a 340 America). However, it might be a > >166MM/195S/212 Export. If anyone is interested in getting the file to throw > >in their 30 lire worth, let me know. It's a 263k JPEG file. > > >Regards, > >Bryan > > > If it was one of the 275S's it was #0032 as 0030MT is quietly awaiting repairs > at its home here in VT. I thought that these cars were barchettas or am I > confused because the current, non original body on 0030 is such? > > Bob From cak Mon Sep 8 22:35:51 1997 Return-Path: <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA05679; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 22:35:48 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-8.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.5) id BAA20612 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 01:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 01:34:56 -0400 From: David Booth <104375.2245@compuserve.com> Subject: STE Synchrometer To: vintage Ferrari list Message-ID: <199709090135_MC2-1FA9-950D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Hi Chris: I was the one who brought up the STE synchrometer several months ago on t= he List. = FAF Motorcars in Atlanta used to have them but that was the old days. No= w, they have no clue. My recollection of the traffic at the time was that = you said you knew where to get one at a good price. Maybe I imagined it,= but I'm pretty sure I said that if you were going to get one, maybe some = of the others, and certainly me, would like to order as well. I had ferreted out a Britcar mechanic here in San Diego who thought he could special order one, but that was a couple of years ago. Moss Motors= in Goleta Ca. could be a source. They sold me an exhaust sniffer that no= one else seems to have. It works, too. Best, Dave Booth From cak Thu Sep 18 19:42:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA03752; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:42:27 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd13-145.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.204.145]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA13430 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 19:41:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199709190241.TAA13430@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Ferrari photos Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:38:21 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've developed and scanned a number of photos from last weekend's Concours Italiano in Dallas. Let me know if you want any of the following Red 550 Maranello Yellow 550 Maranell 365 GTC/4 (3 views) Ric's engine compartment Also, from a car show in Vermont, a view of Bob Weeks Series I 330 GT 2+2 I'm not a professional photog. I believe that the Pininfarina bodies on recent models (and perhaps the Pinifarina, Scaglietti, Touring, etc bodies on older cars) are so complex and 3-dimensional that amateurs like me cannot capture the essence of the cars in a 2-D photo. This is why so many negative comments about the ________ (pick the model of choice) abound based on photos only. Nevertheless, the photos are available. Chris, I also took two photos of an Abarth Formula 2000 that is supported by a small racing company in the Dallas area called Shade Tree Engineering. They sound a lot like Dimebank, except for a different selection of car. Each file is a JPEG format about 150k. Regards, Bryan From cak Thu Sep 18 21:49:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA04123; Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:49:25 -0700 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emin18.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id AAA05446 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 00:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970918234258_503214557@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Ferrari photos Brian Cashion wrote: >Chris, I also took two photos of an Abarth Formula 2000 that >is supported by a small racing company in the Dallas area called Shade Tree Engineering. They sound a lot like Dimebank, except for a different selection of car. I can heartily recommend Shade Tree. Run by Robert and Cindy Rogers, they are great people and aces with Italian cars. They also have acres of Fiats, Alfas, Lancias, etc in their junkyard. Robert vintage races a 185-hp Fiat 124 and Cindy a Fiat Abarth 1000 sedan. They do Ferrari work as well. The Abarth formula car is owned by Dave Ricker, who also races it. By the way, had a great time at Italian car day visiting with Brian, Ric, Bill McAbee and other list members. Took my customary 2nd place in front-engined Ferrari class to an immaculate 275 GTB/4. Luckily, Brad Balles got there late in his 250 TDF or I'd have been 3rd! Harold Pace 330 2+2 From cak Fri Sep 26 09:26:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA00941; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:26:14 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA154054 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:25:40 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id TAA07959 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:25:45 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199709261625.TAA07959@happi.hut.fi> Subject: This and that... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 19:25:45 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all... Browsing through all kinds of web-pages the other day I read through the Sempre Ferraris... Great pages really! Reading the Ed Niles column about Lord Brocket I started to wonder again that which cars were those three unfortunate Ferraris he destroyed? Ok, the America was 0138A, but I haven't ever seen the numbers of the other two (Europa and 195S)... Does anyone have the numbers of the 2 counterfeit 250 GT Swb Competiziones that Niles also mentioned? I've have the impression that he converted two steel coupes into alloy competiziones and sold them as genuine cars with tampered assembly sheets... (One or both of them may also be converted GTE's - I don't know...) Niles says one of them is with a long time owner in US and I saw what I assume to be the other one offfered for sale in Europe quite recently. Other sites that may be worth visiting: http://www.ottelli.numerica.it Giorgio Ottelli offers many parts fot 250's, 275's and 330's... (How difficult parts are oil and water pumps for instance? Water pumps tend to be quite difficult if not downright impossible even for more common cars...) http://www.ferraristisvezia.com Ferrari Club of Sweden maintains its pages in Swedish, but they have one of the most impressive Ferrari link-collection on their pages... Kare From cak Fri Sep 26 20:09:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA03880; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 20:09:43 -0700 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout11.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id XAA26934; Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:09:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:09:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970926230859_2020580927@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: kpietila@cc.hut.fi, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: This and that...(butcher Brocket's Ferraris) According to the book "Ferrari Concours", Brocket had a 250 Europa GT which was #0421GT. I am assuming this was the butchered one, although he might have had more than one (or less than one REAL one). Harold Pace From cak Thu Oct 2 00:32:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id AAA13074; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 00:32:01 -0700 Received: by mail4.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1664.3) id ; Wed, 1 Oct 1997 22:46:21 -0700 Message-ID: <1B2056104081CF11914400805F68CC17058B732D@RED-05-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> From: Jeff Littrell To: Vintage Ferrari V-12 Subject: FW: paint Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 22:46:23 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1664.3) Where does one get Ferrari paint colors? I assumed that any old auto paint store would have the codes but then, we're talking Ferrari aren't we? > -----Original Message----- > From: MDomijan@aol.com [SMTP:MDomijan@aol.com] > Sent: Monday, September 29, 1997 12:51 PM > To: Jeff Littrell > Subject: paint > > > My husband has a Ferrari and he needs some acrylic lacquer . The > color is > > Rosso Chiro and the no is a-froo71r. He cannot find it.Can you > help? > Thank you MDomijan From cak Thu Oct 2 05:43:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA00306; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 05:43:48 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA88146 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:43:43 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id PAA29507 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:43:53 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199710021243.PAA29507@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Askolin again... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:43:52 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I happened to come across an article where Fred Geitel tells a story about Scuderia Ascolin taking part in the 1000 Km Race at Nurnburgring in 1958. I stated earlier that they didn't take part in 12 Hour race at Spa because the plane taking the two cars into Belgium immediately after the Helsinki GP in Finland couldn't land near Spa because of bad weather. Turns out that this is nothing but stories... (sounded a bit strange in the first place I must admit... especially when another story had it that the whole race was cancelled because of weather!) Geitel tells that they skipped the race simply because the starting money was not high enough for them to take part in a race with all the top competitors of the day. So they headed for the Nurnburgring instead. Geitel also tells that in Nurnburgring they proudly unloaded all they had brought with them: 3 sets of brand new tires for each car and tools. The other entrants had dozens of tires, spare engines and gearboxes floating around the paddocs... The strange marks on the rear fender of their TdF also attracted some attention (as I told you earlier they had to smash the rear fender so the car would make it around a tight corner into the cargo plane). After the race other competitors loaded their cars on transporters and saw these weird guys hop into their racers and drive away. The course was already set on the next race in Karlskoga, Sweden... Ps. Dave, the Maranello Concessionaires brochure claiming that two Series 2 cabriolets in Rhd form were sold in UK seems to be wrong. Supposedly they mixed Series 2 cabriolet with Series 1, of which 2 were Rhd's, even if only one of them was sold to UK (the other one went into South Africa). From cak Thu Oct 2 11:13:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01514; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 11:13:15 -0700 Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 11:13:15 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199710021813.LAA01514@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: FW: paint 9161 was painted in Glasurit, and the paint master at the shop just did a color match based on some protected original paint. I suspect that this is how a lot of shops do their work; I don't know that the factory paint codes mean much of anything to any paint manufacturer these days. I'd start by calling Dennis McCann, or the chief FCA concours judge, or someone like that, to see if there's a standard, accepted translation. I'd also bet that "Rosso Chiaro" changed slightly over the years... From cak Thu Oct 2 12:37:00 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA01919; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 12:36:58 -0700 Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:41:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <971002154157.5a34@idx.com> Subject: FWD: Re: FW: paint I recall seeing the paint formulas for various Ferrari Colors and indeed most changed over the years. Both paint bases and the pigments used to attain various colors change. The local PPG store has a scanner that generates formulas to match paint samples that customers bring in. I took the glovebox door in to match the silver used on our GTE and it came close but missed on the flake size of the metal flake. I suspect that it would do better with solid colors. Bob _____________________________ 9161 was painted in Glasurit, and the paint master at the shop just did a color match based on some protected original paint. I suspect that this is how a lot of shops do their work; I don't know that the factory paint codes mean much of anything to any paint manufacturer these days. I'd start by calling Dennis McCann, or the chief FCA concours judge, or someone like that, to see if there's a standard, accepted translation. I'd also bet that "Rosso Chiaro" changed slightly over the years... From cak Thu Oct 2 22:03:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA03827; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 22:03:27 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA129962 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 08:03:19 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id IAA02122 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 08:03:29 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199710030503.IAA02122@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Re: FW: paint To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 08:03:29 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > if there's a standard, accepted translation. I'd also bet > that "Rosso Chiaro" changed slightly over the years... A friend of mine contacted factory in the late 1970's to get a sample of "Rosso Chiaro Ferrari" and ended up with several samples that they couldn't be sure of which was the correct one for a 1963 car... He was restoring a series 3 GTE at the time... From cak Thu Oct 2 23:23:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id XAA04133; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 23:23:13 -0700 Received: from 207.213.5.84 (dial002w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.25]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id XAA01342; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 23:22:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34349141.6159@net-quest.com> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 23:31:52 -0700 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kare M A Pietil{ CC: Ferrari Vintage Subject: Re: FW: paint References: <199710030503.IAA02122@happi.hut.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kare M A Pietil{ wrote: > > > if there's a standard, accepted translation. I'd also bet > > that "Rosso Chiaro" changed slightly over the years... > > A friend of mine contacted factory in the late 1970's to get a > sample of "Rosso Chiaro Ferrari" and ended up with several > samples that they couldn't be sure of which was the correct one > for a 1963 car... He was restoring a series 3 GTE at the time... This sound's very familiar. On one of my visit's to Steve Tillack's I asked him about an example of Rosso Corsa. He just about laughed his ass off, and then showed me 4 different Rosso Corsa's and asked me to pick. Not what I had in mind. Andrew. From cak Sat Oct 11 00:23:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id AAA04664; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 00:23:27 -0700 Received: from 207.213.5.62 (dial013w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.36]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id AAA05597 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 00:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <343F2B23.A26@net-quest.com> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 00:32:10 -0700 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: Re: Fwd: SB 42 References: <971009233249_1620904021@emout20.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I got this email today from someone I don't know. If it's accurate it's good new's for people like Chris. Beverly514@aol.com wrote: > > Hi everyone... > > I got this good news e-mail today :) > > Regards > > Bev Frohm > --------------------- > Forwarded message: > From: Senator.Kopp@SEN.CA.GOV (Office SC08) > To: Beverly514@AOL.COM (Beverly514) > Date: 97-10-09 15:40:33 EDT > > Dear Friends of SB 42: > > The Governor today signed SB 42 exempting 1973 and older > vehicles from the biennial smog check requirement. > > Chapert #801, the legislation will take effect January 1, 1998. > > Thanks for your unwavering support! > > Sincerely yours, > > QUENTIN L. KOPP > > QLK:SS From cak Sat Oct 11 10:33:05 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA00941; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 10:33:05 -0700 Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 10:33:05 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199710111733.KAA00941@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: abrent@net-quest.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Fwd: SB 42 Yup, it's accurate ... and I couldn't be more tickled. From cak Fri Oct 31 13:14:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02701; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:14:26 -0800 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA233498 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:13:53 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id XAA20351 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:14:24 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199710312114.XAA20351@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Brocket's Swb... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 23:14:24 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just to try out of this thing still works... Well, seems like the 250 GT Swb Competition recreation sold by Lord Brocket as real thing was 3565GT. That car went through Prancing Horse Farm to John Shirley in California... I don't know if the 250 GT Swb offered for sale recently in Europe as "1 of 2 counterfeit competition Berlinettas made by Brocket now offered as replica for the fraction of the price" was 3565GT or the other one (s/n unknown...) It's a bit strange that Brocket wasn't forced to fold his cards immediately in the start as: 1) The original steel Coupe 3565GT still exists in Europe. 2) Competition Berlinetta production supposedly ceaced immediately after GTO had been launched. they hadn't been manufacturing alloy Swb's for ages when 3565GT left the factory... (Well, being an English nobleman with skilfully forgered factory assembly sheets - I suppose you could fool almost anyone...) PS. Does anyone have the number of sc. "last alloy Swb" at hand? I suppose 3327GT (Chinetti/Baxter) is a real thing, but 3539GT seems a bit suspicious - especially if the car was totally destroyed in 1960s and later reconstructed... Could this be the other Brochet fraud? From cak Fri Oct 31 13:29:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02810; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:29:07 -0800 Received: from 204.140.219.39 (dial016w.net-quest.com [204.140.219.39]) by basecamp1.net-quest.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA27174; Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:28:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3459DD74.5F4D@net-quest.com> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 13:30:31 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@net-quest.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kare M A Pietil{ CC: Ferrari Vintage Subject: Re: Brocket's Swb... References: <199710312114.XAA20351@happi.hut.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kare M A Pietil{ wrote: > > Just to try out of this thing still works... > > Well, seems like the 250 GT Swb Competition recreation sold by Lord > Brocket as real thing was 3565GT. That car went through Prancing > Horse Farm to John Shirley in California... > ..... Hi List, Hi Kare. Interesting that you brought up Brocket, there's an article about him and his prison sentence in FML this week. I havnt read it yet, but I will tonight and let you no if there are any specific detail's about the cars. Regards, Andrew. From cak Sat Nov 1 07:36:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA00613; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 07:35:29 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout09.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id KAA07079; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:34:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:34:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <971101103416_458921975@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: abrent@net-quest.com, kpietila@cc.hut.fi cc: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Brocket's Swb... The latest FML lits the chassis numbers of all the cars butchered by Brocket, the Jeffrey Dahmer of Ferrari collectors. They were 340 Vignale cabrio #0138A, 195 inter Touring coupe #0123S, 250 Europa GT/Pf #0421GT. Also missing was a Maserati Birdcase of dubious provenence. Harold Pace From cak Sat Nov 1 08:04:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA00699; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 08:04:23 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd16-125.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.207.125]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA20324; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 08:04:15 -0800 Message-Id: <199711011604.IAA20324@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Kare M A Pietil{" , "Ferrari Vintage" Subject: Re: Brocket's Swb... Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 07:55:20 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Latest issue of FML has an article about Lor Brocket. According to FML, he counterfeited only one SWB. FML does not give the S/N, though. Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: Kare M A Pietil{ > To: Ferrari Vintage > Subject: Brocket's Swb... > Date: Friday, October 31, 1997 3:14 PM > > Just to try out of this thing still works... > > Well, seems like the 250 GT Swb Competition recreation sold by Lord > Brocket as real thing was 3565GT. That car went through Prancing > Horse Farm to John Shirley in California... > > I don't know if the 250 GT Swb offered for sale recently in Europe > as "1 of 2 counterfeit competition Berlinettas made by Brocket now > offered as replica for the fraction of the price" was 3565GT or the > other one (s/n unknown...) > > It's a bit strange that Brocket wasn't forced to fold his cards > immediately in the start as: > > 1) The original steel Coupe 3565GT still exists in Europe. > 2) Competition Berlinetta production supposedly ceaced immediately > after GTO had been launched. they hadn't been manufacturing > alloy Swb's for ages when 3565GT left the factory... > > (Well, being an English nobleman with skilfully forgered factory > assembly sheets - I suppose you could fool almost anyone...) > > PS. Does anyone have the number of sc. "last alloy Swb" at hand? > I suppose 3327GT (Chinetti/Baxter) is a real thing, but 3539GT > seems a bit suspicious - especially if the car was totally > destroyed in 1960s and later reconstructed... Could this be the > other Brochet fraud? From cak Sat Nov 1 09:34:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01091; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 09:34:29 -0800 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA196714 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:34:24 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id TAA22342 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:34:56 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199711011734.TAA22342@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Re: Brocket's Swb... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:34:55 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Latest issue of FML has an article about Lor Brocket. According to FML, he > counterfeited only one SWB. FML does not give the S/N, though. Just received new info on this matter: 3565GT: Silver with red stripe. Counterfeit Competizione sold for 600,000USD (asking price 750,000USD) through Prancing Horse Farm (Spangler) to Mike Shirley and further to Jon Shirley. Now offered for 125,000USD as a honest Swb recreation/replica. 3539GT: Other counterfeit Competizione comissioned bby Brocket. (Then there supposedly are two recreations on 250GT Swb 1613, although Brocket has nothing to do with this case...?) PS. Thanks, Harold; this is the first time I hear a chassis number connected with the 195 Brocket destroyed. The Maserati was supposedly a replica with forgered chassisnumber/racing history: Well, I'm starting to see a a pattern here... From cak Sat Nov 1 13:36:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA01978; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 13:36:08 -0800 From: GT40MIRAGE@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin46.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id QAA16315 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 16:35:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 16:35:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <971101163534_864828455@mrin46.mail.aol.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Brocket's Swb... JON SHIRLEY SOLD SWB TO GOOD OLD PHILLIPE OLCHKZ OF BELGIUM WHO IS ASSOCIATED AT TIMES WITH SYMBOLIC MOTORCARS. THE PURCHASE PRICE WAS $115K-$125K, IT WAS THEN RESOLD I BELIEVE TO EUROPE. IT WAS AN EXCELLENT REPRODUCTION TS From cak Sat Nov 1 19:49:47 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA03065; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:49:44 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd83-213.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.183.213]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA29341; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 19:49:35 -0800 Message-Id: <199711020349.TAA29341@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Kare M A Pietil{" , "Ferrari Vintage" Subject: Re: Brocket's Swb... Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 21:32:51 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know the circumstances of the sale of the 250 to the Shirley's. They are knowledgable Ferrari people. I'm surprised they got 'taken.' Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: Kare M A Pietil{ > To: Ferrari Vintage > Subject: Re: Brocket's Swb... > Date: Saturday, November 01, 1997 11:34 AM > > > Latest issue of FML has an article about Lor Brocket. According to FML, he > > counterfeited only one SWB. FML does not give the S/N, though. > > Just received new info on this matter: > > 3565GT: Silver with red stripe. Counterfeit Competizione sold for 600,000USD > (asking price 750,000USD) through Prancing Horse Farm (Spangler) to > Mike Shirley and further to Jon Shirley. Now offered for 125,000USD > as a honest Swb recreation/replica. From cak Wed Nov 5 02:53:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id CAA04802; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 02:53:47 -0800 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA179194 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 12:53:29 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id MAA06256 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 12:54:03 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199711051054.MAA06256@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Re: Brocket's Swb... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 12:54:02 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Does anyone know the circumstances of the sale of the 250 to the Shirley's. > They are knowledgable Ferrari people. I'm surprised they got 'taken.' I'm hearing rumours that even information Jess Pourret published used to depend a great deal on what remains he and his companions owned at the time resulting in numerous alterations from edition to edition... Cannot personally say anything of such rumours - other than such things might make sorting the history even more difficult... What comes to Brocket; would you expect an English nobleman to deliberately cheat on such matter when he: 1) Owned two dozens of Ferraris at the time - many of them spectacular cars with extremely good history. 2) For years have been well known in Ferrari circles and have been arranging the Brocket Hall Concours (main event in UK) 3) Belongs to the English upper class (although only in 3rd generation) I for one sure wouldn't dear to stand up and say that something's wrong, even if I might think that's it is a peculiar car being produced so late. ...then again every second Ferrari has something extraordinary in its originas or history! Nobody knew at the time that he was suffering great losses because of the collapse of values in real esteta business and on the other hand he was preparing to go through a divorce. And what comes to quality of this reproduction: It sure looks good in the pictures I've seen. Most recreations and replicas look awful in thumbnail sized b/w pictures, but this car looks soooo good in the half page colour advertisement published in Classic & Sportscar a few moths ago! From cak Wed Nov 5 09:37:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01257; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 09:37:16 -0800 Received: by mail3.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1939.0) id ; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 09:39:34 -0800 Message-ID: From: Jeff Littrell To: "'Kare M A Pietil{'" , ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: Brocket's Swb... Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 09:36:26 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1939.0) From a source very close to the matter who does not want to be identified: When it was purchased it was perfect with full documentation. NOBODY could have figured this one out. After about a year two inspectors from Scotland Yard show up and give the story about the lord and ask to see the car. They say they have suspicions it is a fake. They bring in an expert to check it out and they find nothing wrong. As they are leaving, he says the only true way to check is for weld marks on the frame which they haven't found. Then they get this great idea to use an orthoscopic camera to look inside the box frame. they drill a small hole and stick the camera in and sure enough, they find weld marks inside the frame that had been completely removed from the exterior. The lord got a bunch of time added to his sentence, the broker (agent) disappered and the car was sold as a fake. > -----Original Message----- > From: Kare M A Pietil{ [SMTP:kpietila@cc.hut.fi] > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 1997 2:54 AM > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: Re: Brocket's Swb... > > > Does anyone know the circumstances of the sale of the 250 to the > Shirley's. > > They are knowledgable Ferrari people. I'm surprised they got 'taken.' > > > I'm hearing rumours that even information Jess Pourret published used > to depend a great deal on what remains he and his companions owned at > the time resulting in numerous alterations from edition to edition... > Cannot personally say anything of such rumours - other than such things > might make sorting the history even more difficult... > > What comes to Brocket; would you expect an English nobleman to > deliberately > cheat on such matter when he: > 1) Owned two dozens of Ferraris at the time - many of them spectacular > cars with extremely good history. > 2) For years have been well known in Ferrari circles and have been > arranging the Brocket Hall Concours (main event in UK) > 3) Belongs to the English upper class (although only in 3rd generation) > > I for one sure wouldn't dear to stand up and say that something's wrong, > even if I might think that's it is a peculiar car being produced so late. > ...then again every second Ferrari has something extraordinary in its > originas or history! > > Nobody knew at the time that he was suffering great losses because of > the collapse of values in real esteta business and on the other hand > he was preparing to go through a divorce. > > And what comes to quality of this reproduction: > It sure looks good in the pictures I've seen. Most recreations and > replicas > look awful in thumbnail sized b/w pictures, but this car looks soooo good > in the half page colour advertisement published in Classic & Sportscar a > few moths ago! From cak Sun Nov 9 05:33:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA00243; Sun, 9 Nov 1997 05:33:06 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd18-011.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.209.11]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA25860 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 1997 05:33:01 -0800 Message-Id: <199711091333.FAA25860@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: New car Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 07:21:46 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In Sep 1967, R&T published a story about the 275 GTS NART and I was hooked. Yesterday, I didn't get a 275 NART Spyder, but I did pick up a 365 GTC/4 from Ferrari of Dallas. The 200+ mile drive to Houston went great, nice weather, some back roads, wonderful sounds. Pictures available. Regards, Bryan From cak Fri Nov 14 20:48:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA03847; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 20:48:34 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad66-045.arl.compuserve.com [199.174.194.45]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA06402 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 20:48:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199711150448.UAA06402@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Vignale coupe Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 22:40:42 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kare: there is a picture of a Vignale coupe at the following URL that looks a lot lke the Vignale coupe were tracking down many months ago. Regards, Bryan > > http://users.tss.net/fcanwr/gallery.htm > From cak Fri Nov 14 20:55:14 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA03907; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 20:55:12 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad66-045.arl.compuserve.com [199.174.194.45]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA09155 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 20:55:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199711150455.UAA09155@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Fw: Vignale coupe Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 22:51:45 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On further examination, it's not that close, other than the Vignale visual cues. Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: Bryan Cashion > To: Vintage Ferrari V-12 > Subject: Vignale coupe > Date: Friday, November 14, 1997 10:40 PM > > Kare: > > there is a picture of a Vignale coupe at the following URL that looks a lot > lke the Vignale coupe were tracking down many months ago. > > Regards, > Bryan > > > > > http://users.tss.net/fcanwr/gallery.htm > > From cak Sat Nov 22 17:52:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA01748; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:52:03 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd81-029.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.191.29]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA19324 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:51:57 -0800 Message-Id: <199711230151.RAA19324@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Fuel filter leaks Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 19:48:54 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My Fispa fuel filter has a very low seep. No measurable loss of fuel, but the trunk always has a noticeable gasoline odor and the top of the filter has a film of gas that returns if I wipe it up. Does anyone have any experience with sources of leaks on the filter, e.g. the gaskets on the threaded plugs perhaps? The filter is difficult to get to on the C4, because it's located in a small niche ahead of the right side fuel tank. TIA Regards, Bryan From cak Sun Nov 23 21:17:48 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA02331; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 21:17:46 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin39.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id AAA07541 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 00:17:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 00:17:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <971124001712_1577426089@mrin39> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Drogo special info? Anyone know what the deal is on the Drogo-bodied 250 GTE that came up for sale in England at auction lately? It had a body off of the Sterling Moss/Rob Walker 250 SWB. It had been sold by Walker to Chris Kerrison, who wrecked it and had it rebodied by Drogo with pseudo GTO/Breadvan coachwork. Very evil and nasty. When car was restored to Walker livery, the Drogo body was put on a GTE-based chassis. According to Forza, it was a no-sale when the bidding only reached $75,000 dollars. Does anyone know why the bidding was so low? Did they mean 75,000 pounds? Does anyone know what the reserve was? Harold Pace From cak Mon Nov 24 17:15:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA01998; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 17:15:04 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad13-055.arl.compuserve.com [199.174.140.55]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA22303; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 17:14:55 -0800 Message-Id: <199711250114.RAA22303@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: , Subject: Re: Drogo special info? Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 18:38:00 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This car was written up by Sports Car Market in Sep 1996. It had just come from the Aug 96 Coy's auction at Silverstone. UNsold at $78kUS. No mention if there was a reserve or how much. Other info from article. S/N 3611 GT Engine 7677 GT It is a recreation of 250 SWB 2735 which Rob Walker originally purchased in 1961. It was re-bodied by Drogo in 1963. In 1980, it was dismantled and restored to its original SWB body. It has a 6-carb 275 GTB motor (7677). The picture in SCM shows a more attractive body than the 'breadvan' Drogo. The roofline slopes downwards to a more 'discrete' Kamm tail than the more or less horizontal breadvan roofline. Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: PaceCars@aol.com > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: Drogo special info? > Date: Sunday, November 23, 1997 11:17 PM > > Anyone know what the deal is on the Drogo-bodied 250 GTE that came up for > sale in England at auction lately? It had a body off of the Sterling Moss/Rob > Walker 250 SWB. It had been sold by Walker to Chris Kerrison, who wrecked it > and had it rebodied by Drogo with pseudo GTO/Breadvan coachwork. Very evil > and nasty. When car was restored to Walker livery, the Drogo body was put on > a GTE-based chassis. According to Forza, it was a no-sale when the bidding > only reached $75,000 dollars. Does anyone know why the bidding was so low? > Did they mean 75,000 pounds? Does anyone know what the reserve was? > Harold Pace From cak Mon Nov 24 19:26:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA02361; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 19:26:07 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin83.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id WAA19342 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 22:25:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 22:25:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <971124222525_361476625@mrin83.mail.aol.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Good Ferrari article Hey gang, Just picked up a magazine called Classic Automobile Register. The Nov/Dec issue has a number of Ferrari articles. Some more of same stuff (355, etc), but a few real good ones. One is on the Marques de Portago with wonderful illustrations by Bill Neale. the other is on Pininfarina, and tells the identity of the designers that worked on which car designss. This is the first time I have seen this info. The magazine is put out by Hachette, who also put out Road & Track and Car and Drivel ;>) I think it is intended to be a Robb Report for people who can tell a Ferrari from a Buick without reading the emblems. Two thumbs up! Check it out! Harold Pace From cak Tue Nov 25 07:57:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA00560; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:57:01 -0800 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA259358 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:56:51 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id RAA16845 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:57:39 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199711251557.RAA16845@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Re: Drogo special info? To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:57:38 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The picture in SCM shows a more attractive body than the 'breadvan' Drogo. > The roofline slopes downwards to a more 'discrete' Kamm tail than the more > or less horizontal breadvan roofline. Didn't this 2735GT have two different Drogo coachworks in it's day...? The body currently on chassi 3611GT is one of the fiercest looking bodyworks I've ever seen - maybe the best Drogo I've ever seen. A slippery looking silver blue (?) Coupe with big overhang in both ends... From cak Tue Nov 25 19:56:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA03462; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:55:58 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd55-167.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.235.167]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA20743; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:55:21 -0800 Message-Id: <199711260355.TAA20743@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Kare M A Pietil{" , "Ferrari Vintage" Subject: Re: Drogo special info? Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:29:04 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree. I wonder if Drogo was torn between esthetics and aerodynamics! Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: Kare M A Pietil{ > To: Ferrari Vintage > Subject: Re: Drogo special info? > Date: Tuesday, November 25, 1997 9:57 AM > > The body currently on chassi 3611GT is one of the fiercest looking > bodyworks I've ever seen - maybe the best Drogo I've ever seen. From cak Wed Nov 26 12:26:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA00938; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:26:21 -0800 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA109376 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:26:03 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id WAA21194 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:26:54 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199711262026.WAA21194@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Re: Drogo special info? To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 22:26:53 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I agree. I wonder if Drogo was torn between esthetics and aerodynamics! Yet I have to correct myself: The 250GT with two separate Drogo bodies was 2065, not 2735... From cak Thu Dec 4 19:29:23 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA03459; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:29:21 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd66-067.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.246.67]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA13452 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:29:12 -0800 Message-Id: <199712050329.TAA13452@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Exhaust pipes and carb synch Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:27:17 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1) Is there any way to determine the condition of the inside of the exhaust system from the engine block back through the outlet tips? 2) What tools do people use for synchronizing carbs besides Unisyn? Will they work on side draft carbs? 3) I want to replace the ignition wires. Does anyone have recommendations? I assume that any high quality wire will work. Thanks in advance. Regards, Bryan From cak Fri Dec 5 10:01:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01117; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 10:01:48 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:59:27 -0500 (EST) From: Bob To: ferrari-vintage X-Vmsmail-To: IDX::SMTP%"ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Message-Id: <971205125927.72e2b@idx.com> Subject: New Member for our list Everyone is really quiet. Erik Nielsen just purchased a 365 GT4 2+2 and I would like to recommend that he be added to our list. Erik has been a participant on the "other" list for some time and would be a good addition to our group. His address is nielsen@verdi.engr.utk.edu. ---------------------------------- Erik C. Nielsen Department of Chemical Engineering University of Tennessee Knoxville, TN 37996-2200 Bob Weeks Georgia Center, VT From cak Fri Dec 5 11:31:17 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01362; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:31:15 -0800 Received: from Boss.worldnet.att.net ([12.64.176.84]) by mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA5175 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:30:05 +0000 Message-ID: <34885476.8BF25E01@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 11:22:30 -0800 From: David Booth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vintage Ferrari V-12 Subject: Bryan's questions X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Group: Biggest problem with the exhaust systems in my experience is that they get driven so seldom, there's usually a lot of rust inside. I've heard of instances where cars that have been laid up for many years have actually throttled the engines because of mostly clogged exhaust systems. It's amazing what will come out of them if you stand them on end and tap them on the floor. But I'm not so sure if that's a good idea, or could actually make the problem worse. The Uni-Syn works well on side draft carbs. There's also a gimmick called an STE Synchrometer which is barrel shaped and fits right in the carb bores and thereby avoids the air-cleaner studs on top of downdraft Webers. It's available from Dave Bean Engineering in California. Packard 440 wire (black) is the one I've heard recommended the most -- buy it in bulk and cut to the length you require. Best to all, Dave Booth From cak Fri Dec 5 12:53:02 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA01724; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:53:02 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:53:02 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199712052053.MAA01724@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: WEEKS@VTA.dnet.idx.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: New Member for our list Erik has been added to the list. From cak Fri Dec 5 12:56:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA01757; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:56:35 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:56:35 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199712052056.MAA01757@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Bryan's questions UniSyns work great on most sidedrafts. In my experience, they don't work so well on Weber downdrafts because it's hard to isolate one carb throat without affecting the other. There are various adapters that people use to get around this, all of them home made. I've started using the STE Synchrometer, which has a tapered intake for just this reason. As Dave said, Dave Bean Engineering has them, in stock at a good price. They also stock various adapters. The nice thing about the STE unit is that it uses a calibrated scale so you can make absolute comparisons, instead of having to diddle the Uni-Syn to get into the right range. Packard 440 is the time-honored standard. You can buy it in bulk from J.C. Whitney. What I don't know is what folks use for spark plug ends these days - any recommendations? From GT40MIRAGE@aol.com Sat Dec 6 05:02:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id EAA04428; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 04:58:39 -0800 From: GT40MIRAGE Message-ID: <8c6bc105.34894bb1@aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 07:57:19 EST To: ferrari-vintage Subject: SUBSCRIBE Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) PLEASE SUBSCRIBE MY FRIEND PAUL VASQUEZ. HE IS AN ENGINEER AT XEROX, AND HAS AN UNCURABLE CAR DISEASE, "THIS BOY IS ALL FUCKED UP" Paul_Vasquez@es.xerox.com THANK YOU TOM SHAUGHNESSY From cak Sat Dec 6 08:07:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA00682; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:07:55 -0800 Received: from pmdf1.cinops.xerox.com ([13.250.20.175]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <52212(3)>; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:07:19 PST Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by pmdf.cinops.xerox.com (PMDF V5.1-8 #19017) id <01IQUNPPCNEO934WRB@pmdf.cinops.xerox.com> for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:03:33 EST Received: from wb.mhs.xerox.com by pmdf.cinops.xerox.com (PMDF V5.1-8 #19018) id <01IQUME08ZF491VXJM@pmdf.cinops.xerox.com> for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 06 Dec 1997 11:02:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:53:51 PST From: "Vasquez,Paul" Subject: subscribe To: ferrari-vintage Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 Posting-date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 16:00:04 -0500 Priority: normal Hop-count: 3 subscribe From cak Sat Dec 6 10:58:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01207; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:58:25 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 10:58:25 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199712061858.KAA01207@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: GT40MIRAGE@aol.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: SUBSCRIBE HE IS AN ENGINEER AT XEROX, AND HAS AN UNCURABLE CAR DISEASE, That's nice, but does he know anything about Ferrari? From cak Sun Dec 7 13:47:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA01576; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:47:19 -0800 Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:47:19 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199712072147.NAA01576@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: GT40MIRAGE@aol.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: SUBSCRIBE I've added Paul; Tom reports that he has a PF coupe that is undergoing some work. Hopefully he'll tell us more. From cak Tue Dec 9 12:53:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA01543; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:53:53 -0800 Received: from localhost by verdi.engr.utk.edu with SMTP (SMI-8.6/2.8s-UTK.UTCC) id UAA15938; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:52:15 GMT Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:52:15 -0500 (EST) From: Erik Nielsen To: ferrari-vintage Subject: introduction and questions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i figure some of you know me from the other email list, but i figured i'd introduce myself to everybody. i'm a phd student in chemical engineering at the university of tennessee (also working on my mba). bs degree in chem eng and a masters in mech eng from auburn. i just bought my first ferrari, a 1976 365GT4 2+2 (18759), three weeks ago and am enjoying every minute of it. i do have several questions which you might be able to help me with. first off, i want to convert it back to european specs (tennessee has no emmision standards) and need to know what was done to make the car legal (should be the same as a 400/400i/412). the second major question i have is that i have a 4 tail light car. all the 365's that i have seen pictures of (including those in the manual) show 6 lights. there is no evidence that the car was ever wrecked. it was originally sold in east germany. it is a later car and i'm hoping that it is a prototype for the 400 series (hey, i can pray can't i?). does any one know who i should contact? i'm not expecting fna to have any info and i gave gerald roush copies of all the paper work on the car on saturday in the hopes that he can find the build sheets in his basement. and the last question that i have is what do you recommend for cleaning the dash which appears to be made of a suede or leather material. i bought the car to drive and show. i don't want to do a full restoration on the car (it doesn't need it and john apen said it is the most original 365 that he has ever seen), but i would like to bring it up to more or less the way it was when it came from the factory. thanks, erik nielsen From cak Tue Dec 9 20:12:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA03129; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:12:34 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (dd37-245.dub.compuserve.com [199.174.154.245]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA25266; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:12:23 -0800 Message-Id: <199712100412.UAA25266@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Erik Nielsen" , Subject: Re: introduction and questions Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:08:56 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sounds like the dash is the same 'mouse fur' that the C4 has. If anyone knows what to use to rejuvenate it, I would be interested also. I know there is something. I'm tempted to try Armorall on a small area. Interestingly, Prunet says that the taillights were "increased on the 400 from 4 to 6." This is in error, since the C4 and most 365 GT4s has 6, but the pictures of the 400 that I have show 4. All the other books I have note the change was from 6 to 4. Perhaps the factory actually changed them during the 365 GT production run. This would be typical for Ferrari. What would be interesting to know is what S/N was the first to get 4 taillights instead of 6. Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: Erik Nielsen > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: introduction and questions > Date: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 2:52 PM > > and the last question that i have is what do you recommend for cleaning > the dash which appears to be made of a suede or leather material. i > bought the car to drive and show. i don't want to do a full restoration > on the car (it doesn't need it and john apen said it is the most original > 365 that he has ever seen), but i would like to bring it up to more or > less the way it was when it came from the factory. > thanks, > erik nielsen From cak Wed Dec 10 02:38:50 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id CAA04062; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 02:38:46 -0800 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA90294 for ; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:38:09 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id MAA02798 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:39:02 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199712101039.MAA02798@happi.hut.fi> Subject: introduction and questions To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:39:01 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > lights. there is no evidence that the car was ever wrecked. it was > originally sold in east germany. it is a later car and i'm hoping that it Living close to the "iron curtain" - (Helsinki, Finland) I must ask if you have any additional information on this quite interesting supposed first delivery address; can this information be verified, who owned it etc...? What I've heard about the conditions in East Germany it was possible to own prewar western cars (some of the "ordinary" people even had old Alfas, Maybachs and Talbots hidden in their garages) but having a new western car delivered was almost impossible - even for the high ranked political figures. From cak Wed Dec 10 06:26:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00374; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 06:26:27 -0800 Received: from localhost by verdi.engr.utk.edu with SMTP (SMI-8.6/2.8s-UTK.UTCC) id OAA19157; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:24:29 GMT Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:24:28 -0500 (EST) From: Erik Nielsen To: Kare M A Pietil{ cc: Ferrari Vintage Subject: Re: introduction and questions In-Reply-To: <199712101039.MAA02798@happi.hut.fi> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Kare M A Pietil{ wrote: > > lights. there is no evidence that the car was ever wrecked. it was > > originally sold in east germany. it is a later car and i'm hoping that it > > Living close to the "iron curtain" - (Helsinki, Finland) I must ask if you > have any additional information on this quite interesting supposed first > delivery address; can this information be verified, who owned it etc...? > > What I've heard about the conditions in East Germany it was possible to > own prewar western cars (some of the "ordinary" people even had old Alfas, > Maybachs and Talbots hidden in their garages) but having a new western car > delivered was almost impossible - even for the high ranked political figures. > i'm in the process of confirming that info. i have the paper work that shows the car to be back in italy in 1979, but before that, juct the papers that show it coming out of chekezlovakia (sp?). the search continues. From cak Sun Dec 14 16:27:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA01983; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:27:17 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd26-175.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.217.175]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA16188 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:26:56 -0800 Message-Id: <199712150026.QAA16188@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Web page Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 18:26:26 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps some of you have already found this, but the following is a good Web site with some great pictures and lots of useful info, esp on older cars. http://www.pirro.com/english/All.Ferraris/summary/All.Ferraris.index.htm Regards, Bryan From cak Mon Dec 15 11:43:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01604; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:43:13 -0800 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA98918 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:41:10 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id VAA21077 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:42:12 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199712151942.VAA21077@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Web page To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:42:11 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Perhaps some of you have already found this, but the following is a good > Web site with some great pictures and lots of useful info, esp on older > cars. > > http://www.pirro.com/english/All.Ferraris/summary/All.Ferraris.index.htm I was just about to inform you folks about the page, but then they changed their address. The starting page should be located at: http://www.pirro.com/All.Ferraris/All.Ferraris.htm You'll find Gregor Schultz, Andreas Birner and Harald Mergard behind this effort - and yes, once completed it will be an unbelieveable Ferrari source, it already is... From cak Mon Dec 15 16:13:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA02867; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:13:25 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad50-035.arl.compuserve.com [199.174.167.35]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA01575 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:12:50 -0800 Message-Id: <199712160012.QAA01575@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Fw: 1950 195 Inter Ghia 0101S info Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:54:06 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interesting note from the other list. This car has been for sale for some time. Perhaps this fellow would be an useful addition. At a minimum, please respond directly to him if you have info. Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: Richard Guerra > To: ferrari@SoftHome.net > Subject: 1950 195 Inter Ghia 0101S info > Date: Sunday, December 14, 1997 8:15 PM > > Hello, > Looking for any information about 195 Inter Ghia 0101S. A recent > purchase. Looking for the original engine and transmission. Any help > would be appreciated. Also, looking for any information on 195 Inter > Ghia's in general. > Thanks, > Richard Guerra > 760-726-5456 From cak Mon Dec 15 20:27:53 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA03748; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 20:27:50 -0800 Received: from pmdf2.cinops.xerox.com ([13.250.20.176]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <52780(4)>; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 20:27:17 PST Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by pmdf.cinops.xerox.com (PMDF V5.1-8 #19017) id <01IR7YBV6MEO95MP95@pmdf.cinops.xerox.com> for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:26:35 EST Received: from wb.mhs.xerox.com by pmdf.cinops.xerox.com (PMDF V5.1-8 #19018) id <01IR7XC6PRJK96VL1P@pmdf.cinops.xerox.com> for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:26:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:18:52 PST From: "Vasquez,Paul" Subject: Introduction to the list..... To: ferrari-vintage Message-id: <06C79534815F687C06C79534815F687C#064#X-ES-ESAE-MS3.XEROX@SMF> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 19:26:40 -0500 Priority: normal Hop-count: 3 Hi I've been very busy with work related stuff so haven't had the time to introduce myself. So here are the particulars... My name is Paul Vasquez and I am a friend of Tom Shaughnessy who "vouched" for me. I hope that I can live up to the exaggeration he surely had to do to get me accepted to this list. I've been a car nut for years. I have owned many cars, not as many as Tom, but a substantial number. I started with an MG Magnette, then Austin Healeys(sprites,3000s), then Jaguars(XK150 S, XKE coupes), then Aston Martin(DB5), Maseratis(a whole story in itself) and now my one and only Ferrari, a late 1959 Ferrari PF coupe. I have owned my 1959 PF coupe for three years. It has gone a distance of about 60 miles in that time. I bought it from a mutual "acquaintance" of Tom and mine for an embarrassing high price. Of course that was three years ago at the high end of the scale then. Admittedly my friend made it surprisingly easy to trade up with many cars that I had become bored with. I expect to own this car for a long time, so the price has become secondary. I bought it with a "tired" but original motor. It smoked, but then what V12 doesn't? Top end was refurbished (pins and rollers). Carbs and distributors rebuilt. The car showed 92KM on the odometer. Steve Tillack performed a evaluation on the car and said " a solid car at a stage in its life deserving restoration." The problem is that it sat for many years. I know from previous experiences, unused cars can suffer just as great as an abused car. The positives: I have an ORIGINAL build sheet for the car. It seems that the mechanic at Hollywood Sportscars kept them and later sought out owners to "reunite" them for a small fee. My car was ordered brand new by Willie Daetwyler, a purported Hill climb champion(1957?,1958?). I have the jack, but no tools. The motor was ordered with "con competizione motore" specifications, limited slip differential, and a radio. One notable external difference in the motor is that a oil drain back tube is routed from each of the heads directly to the sump. I had planned a long restoration period whereby I could finish the cosmetics while I occasional drove the car locally. Then I would rebuild the motor. These plans did not materialize because the water pump decided to dump water into the crank while I drove it home the day I bought it. I replaced the pump with a new one. This solved the water/oil mix but not the crankcase pressure build up. This problem causes oil to be forced out the filler tubes. I have performed compression and leak down tests with no clear reason for the problem. The consensus I have received from my Ferrari friends is that the motor is going to have to come apart to determine the sump pressure build up. I am only going to attempt the rebuild when the finances can support a 100% rebuild. I would prefer to leave the car as is, than attempt a hurried and potentially damaging short term fix. After all, I am going to be a Ferrari owner for life. Why rush? Paul From cak Tue Dec 16 06:00:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00306; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 06:00:50 -0800 From: GT40MIRAGE Message-ID: <54f20adf.34968750@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:51:10 EST To: cashion@sprynet.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: FERRARI GHIA 195 S/N 0101S Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) IF ANYONE HAS ANY QUESTION. PLEASE ASK ME THE CAR WAS FOUND BY MYSELF IN CINCINATI 1 YEAR AGO. I BOUGHT THE CAR WITH RANDY SIMON AS A PARTNER AND RECENTLY SOLD THE CAR AT MY OFFICE IN SAN CLEMENTE. THE NEW OWNER WILL MAKE THIS INTO A CAR AGAIN, HOPEFULLY IN A COUPLE OF YEARS. PLEASE IGNORE ANY OTHER PEOPLE THAT ADVERTISED THE CAR, IT ALL COMES BACK TO ME. PLEASE BE ADVISED: IT WAS A KILLER ORIGINAL CAR!!!! AS GOOD AS CAR IN THE BARN FINDS GET!!! TOM SHAUGHNESSY "WHEEL KING" From cak Wed Dec 17 07:28:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA00566; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:28:05 -0800 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA222638 for ; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:27:13 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id RAA28387 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:28:15 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199712171528.RAA28387@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Introduction to the list..... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:28:14 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The positives: I have an ORIGINAL build sheet for the car. It seems > that the mechanic at Hollywood Sportscars kept them and later sought > out owners to "reunite" them for a small fee. My car was ordered > brand new by Willie Daetwyler, a purported Hill climb > champion(1957?,1958?). I have the jack, but no tools. I've always been very interesting of this particular model... Would be very interesting to know the chassis number and possible dates mentioned in the papers; build date and possible date sold to the first owner... (Why does this name Daetwyler sound so terribly familiar...?) > The consensus I have received from my Ferrari friends is that the motor > is going to have to come apart to determine the sump pressure build > up. I am only going to attempt the rebuild when the finances can > support a 100% rebuild. I would prefer to leave the car as is, than > attempt a hurried and potentially damaging short term fix. After > all, I am going to be a Ferrari owner for life. Why rush? Sounds very much like our case; the GTE (3197) bought by my father-in-law in 1966 has been sitting for 20 years now. I plan to do the car in the future but only when we can do it properly and right. I still don't get how theman could prepare his boat twice a year to perfect condition and dump a car like that with no service for years... From cak Thu Dec 18 08:58:37 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA00754; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:58:33 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA09240 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:57:50 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199712181657.KAA09240@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> Received: from bal-md6-07.ix.netcom.com(199.183.205.199) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma009155; Thu Dec 18 10:57:07 1997 Subject: Re: Introduction to the list..... Date: Thu, 18 Dec 97 11:59:27 -0400 From: Bruce Rippey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Paul, Welcome to our V12 list. I owned a 250GT PF coupe for 4 years back in the early '70s (#1063GT), and I wish I still had it. I think you're doing the right thing in waiting until you can do a proper rebuild. You won't regret passing up the temptation to do the minimum to have a running car. They deserve better. What is your serial number? -Bruce From cak Fri Dec 19 20:17:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA02697; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:17:07 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad40-233.arl.compuserve.com [199.174.158.233]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA19463 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:16:30 -0800 Message-Id: <199712200416.UAA19463@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Texas World Speedway photos Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 21:41:38 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I cannot compete with the authoring skills of those who've written up the "Tutte al Ferrari in Texas" event at TWS, so I offer pictures instead. I have the following photos in JPG format. Size from 100-120k. Let me know what you'd like...remember the size! Apologies for the cryptic names...it keeps the file names short for those without Win 95. If there's anyway we can put these out there in a single location for people to download, I'd appreciate the savings in upload time! Tony/Bill: do you know the S/N of the 250 Testa Rossa and the 250 GTO 64? PAN_ALL.JPG - Panorama of 13 cars that are connected in one way or another to Doyle-Risi Racing PAN_LFT.JPG - Left side of above 13 cars PAN_RT.JPG - Right side group of above 13 cars (these three files can be linked to make one big pano) PAN_CTR.JPG - Center of above 13 cars RED_F50.JPG - Red F50 from FoD RISI.JPG - The 13 cars plus the people who are the structure of Doyle-Risi Racing SWB.JPG - 250 SWB S/N 2733 leading the pack SWB_TRK.JPG - poor picture of a great car (250 SWB on the banking) TR_RF.JPG - Right Front of Testa Rossa TR_RT.JPG - Right side of Testa Rossa YEL_550.JPG - Yellow 550 Maranello YEL_F50.JPG - Yellow F50 of Paul Frame ZAGATO.JPG - Underexposed photo of 250 Zagato beloinging to Toly Arutonoff GTO_LF.JPG - Left Front of 250 GTO 64 F50GT_LT.JPG - Left side of F50 GT1 (the only one in the world out of Fof SF) F50GT_RT.JPG - Right side of F50 GT1 F50_BLU.JPG - F50 in a magnificent blue color (note how lines of car itself are more evident than in red) GTO_LFT.JPG - Left side of 250 GTO 64 GTO_LR.JPG - Left rear of 250 GTO 64 TR_LR.JPG - Left rear of 250 Testa Rossa TR_LR2.JPG - Another left rear of 250 Testa Rossa ASP_TRK.JPG - Asprey-owned 355 Challenge car (in purple!) 3_F50S.JPG - all three F50s 550_GRIG.JPG - Grigio 550 Maranello 2_F50S.JPG - Two F50s ASPREY.JPG - Another view of Asprey 355 Challenge car GTO_TR.JPG - 250 GTO 64 AND 250 Testa Rossa P.S. According to Nowak, 250 SWB 2733 is an all aluminum body with engine 1733 GT. The first owner was Count Volpi in Italy (Venezia Scuderia Serenissima). I have labelled the 250 GTO as a GTO 64, because the only pictures that I could find where the GTO had the hood scoop was a 64 (page 112 Fitzgerald & Merritt, page 160,161 Lehbrink & Schlegelmilch). According to one source, the 250 LMs had smooth hoods and vents on the rear fenders for brake cooling. I'm open to correction. The TR is even tougher. The only TRs with a clear cover over the carb velocity stacks were supposed to be 1959; however, the only pontoon fendered cars were 57 and 58. Any thoughts? Regards, Bryan From cak Fri Dec 19 20:17:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA02698; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:17:09 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad40-233.arl.compuserve.com [199.174.158.233]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA19500 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:16:34 -0800 Message-Id: <199712200416.UAA19500@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: 365 GTC/4 mechanical info Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 22:10:18 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was in downtown Houston today on business, so I "had" to drop by FoH. I spent a profitable few minutes with one of the technicians. I had gone in to ask some questions about the C4. Turns out that they are about 50% through restoration of a C4 (S/N 15487) for a customer and the car was in the shop. Following are comments that may prove useful to at least Erik! 1) 15487 has a heat shield beneath the carb banks to protect them from the exhaust header. My car has the exhaust header itself wrapped in an insulating shell. There is no heat shield. 2) Just downstream of where the carb bolts to the inlet manifolds, there is a tap into each inlet header. The shop has an instrument that threads into the tap and then measures the vacuum. This is how they synch the carbs. Sounds efficient...you don't have to jury rig anything that fits the throats; in fact, you don't even have to take off the air cleaner covers. The instrument itself looks expensive, but I would bet that you could develop your own 'barometer' that also threads into the existing taps. 3) To change the exhaust system downstream of the headers is easy (something I'm thinking about doing) Changing the headers themselves, however, is another story. Requires removal of the carbs, intake cam cover, and possibly timing chain cover. I may re-think this! 4) Unless the customer is interested in originality, FoH usually replaces the twin Marelli ignition system with an electronic setup (MSD, I suppose). Unfortunately, I didn't ask a lot of intelligent questions about this procedure. Gee, I guess I'll have to go back! 5) There are 2 means of hanging the back-end of exhaust system. One relies on the typical rubber donut ring hangers; the other uses a rubber bushing that threads into the body. Mine has the former. If you replace the exhaust, you need to know which to purchase as the fittings on the exhaust are completely different. P.S. I'd appreciate any recommendations you have on what chemical/solvent to use to clean Webers. Also, any tips on what to watch out for, things to avoid, etc. etc. Regards, Bryan From cak Sat Dec 20 12:39:27 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA01406; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 12:39:19 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (dd03-072.dub.compuserve.com [199.174.145.72]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA20182 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 12:38:40 -0800 Message-Id: <199712202038.MAA20182@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: TWS photos Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 14:37:43 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I guess it was later on Friday than I thought. I realized that I can put the pictures from TWS on my Web page. The following URL is all thumbnails. Here's the URL http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/cashion/PhotosFromTWS.htm Regards, Bryan From cak Sat Dec 20 12:53:46 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA01546; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 12:53:46 -0800 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 12:53:46 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199712202053.MAA01546@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: cashion@sprynet.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 365 GTC/4 mechanical info The barometer style vacuum gague/synchrometer is a common enough fixture in Italian shops - the ALFA books show them being used for balancing the DCOEs or SPICA injecti system. Finding one with six inputs might be tough, but you could get by with one with four. Finding a use one may be difficult. You could probably make your own from lab pipettes, alcohol, dye and some plumbing. There is a new style of electronic ignition sweeping the british car scene - a company called Pertronix makes "the ignitor", which is a hall effect sensor and flying magnet. They are producing lots of different modules tht fit different Lucas (mostly) distributors. The neat thing is that the unit replaces the existing baseplate and everything fits under the cap. There are two wires coming out instead of one, but that's the only externally visible difference. The coil just sees it as a set of very fat points. I've been tempted to try to modify one for Marelli distributors, and one of these days I will ... next time I have the units off. It would be nice not to have to find someone with a distributor machine to set up the dual points accurately. I'd imagine that the heat shield is original - this is common Ferrari practice. The heat shields also seem to go lost a lot. I'm sure that Ferrari didn't wrap the headers, and I don't recommend the practice. Lots of racers use that fiberglass wrapping tape to reduce underhood temps - and find that header life is greatly reduced: headers die because they rust. Rust is oxidation - increased temperatures just increases the rate of oxidation. The exhaust wrap keeps the heat inside the headers and reduces them to powder over time. I *love* Jet-Hot coatings. If you have your headers off for some reason, consider sending them off to get coated inside and out. They prefer to work on new parts, but will coat used (without the lifetime warrantee). You want to get it coated inside and out. They have a wide range of finishes, including cast iron grey and bare steel. From cak Sat Dec 20 13:54:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA01697; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:54:56 -0800 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 13:54:56 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199712202154.NAA01697@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: cak@sprynet.com, cashion@sprynet.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 365 GTC/4 mechanical info Oh. That's different. I'm thinking of the fiberglass wrapping tape. Bad stuff. I don't know a direct contact for Pertronix. I know someone who is dealing with them to try to develop a particular model - without much luck. I'll ask him From cak Sat Dec 20 21:35:43 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA03022; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 21:35:43 -0800 Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 21:35:43 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199712210535.VAA03022@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: cleaning Webers almost forgot - the only ting that does a decent job cleaning crburettors is carburettor dip. Stinky nasty vile stuff, but it works great. Use gloves and a mask, and try not to get water into it (typically by putting damp parts in). From cak Sun Dec 21 05:41:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA00274; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 05:41:52 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad49-130.arl.compuserve.com [199.174.133.130]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA29267; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 05:41:17 -0800 Message-Id: <199712211341.FAA29267@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Chris Kantarjiev" , Subject: Re: cleaning Webers Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 07:30:48 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was afraid you'd say this. I read about 'dip' in Allen Bishop's book on Ferrari performance and was hoping that the chemical technology had improved. Oh well. Regards, Bryan ---------- > From: Chris Kantarjiev > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: cleaning Webers > Date: Saturday, December 20, 1997 11:35 PM > > almost forgot - the only ting that does a decent job cleaning > crburettors is carburettor dip. Stinky nasty vile stuff, but it > works great. Use gloves and a mask, and try not to get water > into it (typically by putting damp parts in). From cak Sun Dec 21 11:03:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA00998; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:03:56 -0800 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:03:56 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199712211903.LAA00998@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: cashion@sprynet.com Subject: Re: cleaning Webers Cc: ferrari-vintage Yah. That's the stuff. It's not quite as unpleasant to work with as he makes out, but it's not friendly. Does a great job, though. The varnishes and sludge that build up over time on a carburettor are really nasty and baked on. You could probably use other solvents (acetone might be a good start) but you have to find just the right mix and get enough of it to soak the carb (to get the interior passages). Might as well get the dip. From cak Sun Dec 21 11:26:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01052; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:26:42 -0800 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA25147 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:26:07 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199712211926.NAA25147@dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com> Received: from bal-md3-06.ix.netcom.com(199.183.205.102) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma025135; Sun Dec 21 13:25:46 1997 Subject: Re: 365 GTC/4 mechanical info Date: Sun, 21 Dec 97 14:28:15 -0400 From: Bruce Rippey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Chris said: >There is a new style of electronic ignition sweeping the british car >scene - a company called Pertronix makes "the ignitor", which is a >hall effect sensor and flying magnet. They are producing lots of >different modules tht fit different Lucas (mostly) distributors. >The neat thing is that the unit replaces the existing baseplate >and everything fits under the cap. There are two wires coming out >instead of one, but that's the only externally visible difference. >The coil just sees it as a set of very fat points. For what it's worth, I installed an Ignitor in my Lotus Elan, and it burned out within a year. A replacement lasted about a month before it gave up. In all fairnesss, the problem may have been with the coil, which is not the original, but is supposed to be a direct replacement. At any rate, when they go "phhtt," you are left on the road with no option but to tow it home. I am currently in the process of re-installing the old points and condenser. -Bruce From cak Sun Dec 21 11:37:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01090; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:37:55 -0800 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:37:55 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199712211937.LAA01090@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: brippey@ix.netcom.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 365 GTC/4 mechanical info Indeed - all the electronic ignitions will leave you stranded when they fail. I haven't heard that failure mode, but I have heard of people have the magnet assembly fall apart. I'd be tempted to purchase or manufacture a spare baseplate - keep the original with points intact in the car and mount the ignitor on the spare. That way if it fails, you can pop the points in rather quickly. From cak Sun Dec 21 19:08:07 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA02091; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 19:08:06 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (dd08-011.dub.compuserve.com [199.174.150.11]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA10799 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 1997 19:07:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199712220307.TAA10799@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Ignition components Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:02:37 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm trying to understand what the Marelli electronic modules (one for each bank) in the C4 do. The car has conventional coil and distributor ignition system. Also, If I were to replace the distributor with a no-point type system (MSD or Crane), would I have to replace the Marelli unit, as well, or just put it in a box? Harold, I seem to remember that your 2+2 has electronic ignition. Did you do that yourself? Regards, Bryan From cak Wed Dec 24 16:34:16 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA02108; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:34:14 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd3-212.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.194.212]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA21228 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:33:21 -0800 Message-Id: <199712250033.QAA21228@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Carb synchronizer Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 18:31:45 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone heard of this brand or have any experience? Regards, Bryan > Bryan > > I found it in a P.B. Tweeks catalog (They're a Porsche parts company @ > 1-800-428-2200) > > The catalog info reads as follows. > > "This high-tech air flow meter easily balances multiple barrel > carburetors for maximum performance and fuel economy. Easy to read face > is numerically calibrated in kilograms per hour for precise measurements > regardless of position. Unique rubber sleeve fits directly in carburetor > air horn for a positive air-tight seal. Excellent for use on cars with > multiple carburetors." > > Part info is: SK Synchrometer w/29-51 mm Adapter JTESK $77.50 > Fits Solex 40P11; Weber DCOE, IDA,IDF > > They sell adapters for Zenith and Weber carbs. I don't know what the > Ferrari runs but I imagine that adapters exist. The device is touted by the > Porsche mavens though I have no first hand knowledge of it. I always > thought that when it came time to synchronize my carbs I'd give it a > try. From cak Wed Dec 24 16:44:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA02179; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:44:12 -0800 Date: Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:44:12 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199712250044.QAA02179@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: cashion@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Carb synchronizer Cc: ferrari-vintage That's the one Dave Bean sells for just under $60. From cak Mon Dec 29 16:59:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA02277; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:59:18 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (dd55-114.dub.compuserve.com [199.174.185.114]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA06611 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:58:42 -0800 From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Weber carb sites Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:56:56 -0600 Message-ID: <01bd14bd$d44e07e0$72b9aec7@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 I found the following Web sites that offer parts, replacements, info, etc on Webers. The visual aspects of the sites are better than the actual content, but even that's not bad. The first URL listed is still under construction, so there isn't much there. The other sites seem to have V-8 (Ford and Chevy) or British leanings. Does anyone have other sites or suppliers that carry Weber stuff, especially standard re-work kits, i.e. gaskets, etc? TIA. http://www.webercarburetors.com/ http://www.inglese.com/ http://www.bccp.nl/ Regards, Bryan From cak Mon Dec 29 17:08:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA02321; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 17:08:21 -0800 Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 17:08:21 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199712300108.RAA02321@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: cashion@sprynet.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Weber carb sites I usually get my parts from Dave Bean Engineering; they have a pretty good stock for sidedrafts (DCOE) and the downdraft DV family, and can get the other bits. I occasionally do business with these folks; for a long time they advertised as the cheapest West coast Weber supplier. Name: Mike Pierce Company: Pierce Manifolds Address: 8901-D Murray Avenue Gilroy, CA 95020 Phone: (408) 842-6667 JAE says that they're a direct Weber importer, but I've never used them for that. Their main focus is also Lotus (like DBE), so they're more likely to have DCOE/DGV stuff in stock. Name: JAE Address: 375 Pine, Unit 26 Goleta, CA 93117 Phone: (805) 967-5767 (805) 967-6183 fax I'd be surprised if you can't get everything you need from the usual Ferrari suspects - or are you trying to price shop? From cak Tue Dec 30 16:53:29 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA02497; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:53:27 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd68-131.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.248.131]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA02486; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 16:52:51 -0800 From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Chris Kantarjiev" , Subject: Re: Weber carb sites Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 18:43:15 -0600 Message-ID: <01bd1585$14b23960$e8d1afce@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Mostly just building a database of suppliers... Thanks for info. Regards, Bryan -----Original Message----- From: Chris Kantarjiev To: cashion@sprynet.com ; ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Date: Monday, December 29, 1997 7:29 PM Subject: Re: Weber carb sites >I'd be surprised if you can't get everything you need from the usual >Ferrari suspects - or are you trying to price shop? From cak Tue Dec 30 17:08:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA02572; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 17:08:03 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 17:08:03 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199712310108.RAA02572@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Weber carb sites Mostly just building a database of suppliers... Check out the Monster List: www.dimebank.com/monster I've considered doing somethign similar for Ferrari - I put together a page and sample database which you can see at www.dimebank.com/monster/Ferrari-vendors.html (if it still works). Not much data yet, and that's the rub - I'd need a lot more input to make it a useful resource. I think I've called for input on this list before, might as well do it again ... if you've got a list you're willing to divulge, please send me the details, especially if you have comments about vendors. I see a lot of folks just search the Monster List seemingly randomly, but I think the most value comes from the commentary. From cak Thu Jan 1 10:42:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01018; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:42:08 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad40-254.arl.compuserve.com [199.174.158.254]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA07494 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:41:34 -0800 From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Out of touch Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 12:39:26 -0600 Message-ID: <01bd16e4$97731c60$fe9eaec7@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Will be off e-mail for the next 3 weeks (out of the country), so if you get bounced mail...it may because the inbox is full. Regards, Bryan From cak Wed Jan 7 17:45:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA02854; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:45:50 -0800 From: mikeplechaty@juno.com Received: (from mikeplechaty@juno.com) by x4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id UoR01726; Wed, 07 Jan 1998 20:43:57 EST To: WITIGA@HARBORSIDE.COM, Jhendri1@cablevision.com, ferrari-vintage, grwerne@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:43:02 -0800 Subject: The Aronsons Message-ID: <19980107.174304.9078.0.MikePlechaty@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.46 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-19,21-38,40-54 Thought you all might be interested in the latest from Susan. Guess it's just another chapter in the "Joys of Growing Old." As usual, pleeze don't mention you heard it here, as Susan herself gets a bit paranoid about e-mail and such. Regards, Mike --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: "Sue/Dennis Aronson" To: "Michael R. Plechaty" Subject: Bah, humbug... Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 20:10:00 -0800 Message-ID: <000a01bd18c6$a203ef40$751415d1@aronson2.cwnet.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Dear Mike, Yes, it has been quiet from here, as the news has not been good. My = sister had a serious episode the day before Thanksgiving and was = hospitalized for 3 days--which should have been longer, to allow her to = get on some stabilizing kind of medication--but she refused to stay, = contrary to the recommendation of the psychiatrist on duty. Unfortunately, the current situation has included an element of paranoia = as well as irrationality, and I have become a target of some of the = paranoia. My Mom, who has helped take care of her for the better part = of this past year, can no longer cope with the mood swings, depression, = manic phases, and irrational behavior. So she's been with us both = before and after the episode--we all went over, at Ellen's request, = during the episode. Mom is planning to return to Ashland Jan. 10; Dennis will take her up, = as we also have 4-year-old Isaac with us for a month! He's been a real = joy, brightening Christmas up considerably for the 3 of us. (Kathi = headed back for San Diego on Christmas day, after spending a couple of = days in San Francisco with her boyfriend Dan, now back working on his = long-progcrastinated degree in Chicago.) So I've had no time to write Christmas cards (and somewhat little = inclination). Mom has been better and has sent a bunch, once she got = motivated and started off. Isaac adores her and vice versa. We've all = been getting along well (in close quarters--Isaac sleeps on the floor in = our closet!) but I notice at least 3 times as much laundry and as many = dishes and meals with the doubling of our local population. Tonight, now that Isaac is = finally asleep, I have 3 things that need to be typed and ready by = tomorrow, so will sign off for now. Regards to Esther and always to = Gordon when you see him. Those were dandy shots of the airplane views = back in the 1950's! Take care. Susan ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD1883.91D85C20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From cak Wed Jan 14 22:19:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA03068; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:19:43 -0800 Received: from blockton ([12.64.133.106]) by mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA12285; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 06:19:08 +0000 Message-ID: <34BDA9A8.5DE6796B@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:16:08 -0800 From: David Booth Reply-To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Brent CC: Vintage Ferrari List Subject: 330 America #5009 sighting X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On a recent unplanned visit to Classic European Restorations, I saw Ferrari 330 America #5009 of some recent newsgroup fame enscosced in the shop for some work. Andrew -- I can see why you were so taken with this car, despite its poor report card from Bruce Whitcher and others. It's really hadsome with its nice silver paint and good looking (cursory examination only) red leather. I was really surprised by the "330 America" badges on the front fenders (thought they went on the trunk lid). A brief conversation with shop owner Brian Anderson indicated the car was in for a thorough freshening. More as I learn it. Reason for my unplanned visit was that Classic European is doing the repair work on my (blush) wrecked '94 RX-7. I "leaned" the car up against the tires of a great big semi on I-15 southbound out of Las Vegas right before Christmas. My passenger had distracted me momentarily, and when I looked back at the road some traffic control barrels were bearing down on me. Flicked the wheel to miss 'em, which started the car fishtailing, which led to my close encounter with the biggest goddamn Goodyears I've ever seen. The car is absolutely thrashed from bumper to bumper on the passenger side. But when you consider that the alternative could have been to slide into the truck a few feet further back and wind up under the trailer, I'm a very happy, thankful camper. The original plan had been to have Classic European doing metal work and paint on my SII cab this winter. First things first. But at least I'm still looking forward to completing the car instead of getting fitted for a harp and halo. Happy New Year to all! Dave Booth From cak Sat Jan 24 21:40:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA03017; Sat, 24 Jan 1998 21:39:57 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin51.mx.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id AAA29923 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:39:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:39:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <980125003908_1489409713@mrin51.mx> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: 166/TRC body? I knew a used Ferrari dealer in the 1980s named Bob Lloyd in Justin, Texas. He had a unique Ferrari and I have always wondered what became of it. It supposedly was a 166 Barchetta with a one-off rebody by Pf circa 1958. It looked kind of like a 500TRC from the nose but had a rounded tail with headrest. At the time it had a 250 Lusso motor with 6 carbs on a GTB intake. It was very small and RHD. Does anyone know where it is now? Harold Pace 330 2+2 From cak Sun Feb 1 19:32:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA01993; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:32:45 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd82-027.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.182.27]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA01925 for ; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:14:01 -0800 (PST) From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Potential new member Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:08:53 -0600 Message-ID: <01bd2f87$e57ce560$1bb6afce@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01BD2F55.9AE27560" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BD2F55.9AE27560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Edvar van Daalen is a member of the original Ferrari list. He has been = a good source of info on the older cars and has a Ferrari Web page. = http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen He has, because of a note on the other list, expressed an interest in = contacting other Ferrari mail lists. I think he would make a useful and = interesting additional member to the Vintage List. His e-mail is: daalen@worldonline.nl Regards, =20 Bryan ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BD2F55.9AE27560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Edvar van Daalen is a member of the = original=20 Ferrari list.  He has been a good source of info on the older cars = and has=20 a Ferrari Web page. http://home.worldonline.nl/~d= aalen
 
He has, because of a note on the other list, = expressed an=20 interest in contacting other Ferrari mail lists.  I think he would = make a=20 useful and interesting additional member to the Vintage List.  His = e-mail=20 is:
 
 daalen@worldonline.nl
 
Regards, =20
Bryan
 
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BD2F55.9AE27560-- From cak Sun Feb 1 21:19:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA02201; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:19:35 -0800 Message-Id: <199802020519.VAA02201@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Received: (qmail 27918 invoked by uid 70); 2 Feb 1998 05:18:04 -0000 Received: from ppp-207-149-218-169.emeraldnet.net (HELO schumacher) (207.149.218.169) by mail.emeraldnet.net with SMTP; 2 Feb 1998 05:18:04 -0000 From: "Ryan Snodgrass" To: "Bryan Cashion" , "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: RE: Potential new member Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:18:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01BD2F56.FA441260" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal In-Reply-To: <01bd2f87$e57ce560$1bb6afce@none.compuserve.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BD2F56.FA441260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I also agree, Edward has a definate interest in historical Ferraris. -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Cashion [mailto:cashion@sprynet.com] Sent: Sunday, February 01, 1998 10:09 PM To: Vintage Ferrari V-12 Subject: Potential new member Edvar van Daalen is a member of the original Ferrari list. He has been a good source of info on the older cars and has a Ferrari Web page. http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen He has, because of a note on the other list, expressed an interest in contacting other Ferrari mail lists. I think he would make a useful and interesting additional member to the Vintage List. His e-mail is: daalen@worldonline.nl Regards, Bryan ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BD2F56.FA441260 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I also agree, Edward has a definate interest in historical=20 Ferraris.
-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Bryan Cashion=20 [mailto:cashion@sprynet.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 01, = 1998 10:09=20 PM
To: Vintage Ferrari V-12
Subject: Potential = new=20 member

Edvar van Daalen is a member of = the original=20 Ferrari list.  He has been a good source of info on the older = cars and=20 has a Ferrari Web page. http://home.worldonline.nl/~d= aalen
 
He has, because of a note on the other list, = expressed an=20 interest in contacting other Ferrari mail lists.  I think he = would make=20 a useful and interesting additional member to the Vintage = List.  His=20 e-mail is:
 
 daalen@worldonline.nl
 
Regards, =20
Bryan
 
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BD2F56.FA441260-- From cak Mon Feb 2 09:44:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA00770; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:44:26 -0800 Received: from 207.211.61.123 (p18.hwts03.loop.net [207.211.61.123]) by stevie.loop.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA24671 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:43:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34D58C40.4A36@loop.com> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 09:05:07 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@loop.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari-Vintage List Subject: the List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, It was I who mentioned the Vintage list in a post to the original Ferrari softhome list. Anyway I have had a raft of quiries about how to join. What is the policy, I seem to remember it was based on recomendations. I don't know alot of the people who asked about it. What should I tell them. Oh, and by the way, I will keep my mouth shut from now on..... Andrew. From cak Mon Feb 2 09:56:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA00800; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:56:22 -0800 Received: from 207.211.61.123 (p18.hwts03.loop.net [207.211.61.123]) by stevie.loop.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA26335; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:55:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34D58F1A.15B6@loop.com> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 09:17:17 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@loop.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vintage Ferrari V-12 CC: Kelly.K.LaVelle@woodside.com.au Subject: Re: Ferrari vintage list References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kelly.K.LaVelle@woodside.com.au wrote: > > Andrew, I was intrigued to see your comment about a list for older > Ferraris. I have a 365GT, so all the chat on the Ferrari list - > entertaining as it is - isn't all that relevant to me. Could you let > me know how I can find or join the 'Vintage" list? > > Many thanks > > Kelly > > PS: I'd also appreciate any sources you have for V12 information - I'm > always searching for more info about V12 Ferraris in general. Hi all, I would like to propose that we add Kelly to the list. He has fitted electronic ignition to his 365 2+2 and I think we all may like to hear his experience. Regards, Andrew. From cak Mon Feb 2 10:01:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA00820; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:01:13 -0800 Received: from 207.211.61.123 (p18.hwts03.loop.net [207.211.61.123]) by stevie.loop.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA26792 for ; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:58:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34D58FEF.599B@loop.com> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 09:20:51 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@loop.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari-Vintage List Subject: More dudes on the list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by stevie.loop.com id JAA26792 For what It's worth I would like to third the nomination. Andrew. From: Bryan Cashion [mailto:cashion@sprynet.com] Sent: Sunday, February 01, 1998 10:09 PM To: Vintage Ferrari V-12 Subject: Potential new member Edvar van Daalen is a member of the original Ferrari list.=A0 He has been a good source of info on the older cars and has a Ferrari Web page. http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen =A0 He has, because of a note on the other list, expressed an interest in contacting other Ferrari mail lists.=A0 I think he would make a useful and interesting additional member to the Vintage List.=A0 His e-mail is: =A0 =A0daalen@worldonline.nl =A0 Regards,=A0=20 Bryan =A0 From cak Mon Feb 2 11:15:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01676; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:15:10 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:15:10 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199802021915.LAA01676@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: abrent@loop.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: the List The policy that has slowly developed is that someone already on the list has to propose them, and they need to be seconded. In addition, I have ultimate veto power, because I control the file that has the list of members! The Charter of the list is attached; if someone you know seems like they'd make a valued contribution to that, great. We hope to keep the number of "lurkers" down. --- Early on, a member asked me: Chris.....I would be interested, but would like to know more about the format i.e., just front engine V-12's...owners? or everyone interested...what will the content be about....mechanical problems/solutions, racing, pilots, factory history? Etc.... This is a start as to topics....Keep me updated.... My original thought was to limit the list to owners only. However, I know that there are enthusiasts out there that share what I perceive to be the interests of this group, but can't currently afford a car. I don't wish to exclude them. I think everything is fair game. We will control the level of traffic and the quality of the conversation by controlling the membership. As I said, there will be no public announcement of this list. Not anywhere. If someone hears about it, it's from one of us. There's no majorodomo allowing automatic subscriptions - *I* read ferrari-vintage-request, and I won't add someone if I don't know him or her or have a recommendation. If you know someone that you think would be an addition to the community, suggest their name to the list and I'll send an invitation. To be honest, this list was created as a backlash to the degradation of , which focussed on 308s and later cars and got dominated by some wannabees. Boring. My goal in starting this list is to have a place to discuss the "early" cars, what FCA calls vintage and classic - up to the Daytona or so. I would love to exchange technical information and factory history, have it be a place to ask questions while I'm working on my car. I would like the quality of discourse to be high enough that we could interest someone like Massini in participating! It's up to us. From cak Mon Feb 2 11:31:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01811; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:31:07 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:31:07 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199802021931.LAA01811@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: cashion@sprynet.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Potential new member I'll add Edvar. From cak Mon Feb 2 12:50:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA02212; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:49:53 -0800 Received: from localhost by verdi.engr.utk.edu with SMTP (SMI-8.6/2.8s-UTK.UTCC) id UAA19545; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:48:10 GMT Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:48:10 -0500 (EST) From: Erik Nielsen To: vintage ferrari Subject: new members Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i second the nomination of kelly lavell. she has given me some practical advice regarding my 365 gt4. erik nielsen From cak Mon Feb 2 12:53:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA02256; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:53:54 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:53:54 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199802022053.MAA02256@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: abrent@loop.com Subject: Re: Ferrari vintage list Cc: ferrari-vintage I've added Kelly to the list. I'm curious to hear about the electronic ignition conversion, myself! From cak Mon Feb 2 16:30:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA03314; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:30:46 -0800 From: Kelly.K.LaVelle@woodside.com.au Received: by krypton.woodside.com.au; id IAA27658; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:29:33 +0800 Received: from permail.woodside.com.au(158.89.200.94) by krypton.woodside.com.au via smap (4.0a) id xma027620; Tue, 3 Feb 98 08:29:18 +0800 Received: from by permail.woodside.com.au with SMTP (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA018655751; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:29:11 +0800 X-Openmail-Hops: 1 Date: Tue, 3 Feb 98 08:24:42 +0800 Message-Id: Subject: list newbie/elec ignition Mime-Version: 1.0 To: abrent@loop.com, ferrari-vintage Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="list newbie/elec ignition" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Hi all, >I would like to propose that we add Kelly to the list. He has fitted >electronic ignition to his 365 2+2 and I think we all may like to >hear his experience. >Regards, >Andrew. Andrew & List, Thanks for the welcome. At present my only Ferrari is the 365GT. My intention is to keep this car permanently, which partly influenced my decision to change the ignition. Several people have asked me for information about this points-to-electronic conversion - at present, I only have a long rambling anecdotal account which probably isn't terribly useful to a would-be converter. In time I will obtain the part number of the kit used for the conversion, plus I will need to take some photos to show what changes were necessary to the 'off the shelf' parts. Please let me know if this info is of interest, and I'll distribute this (either electronically or by snail mail) when it's complete. My Ferrari interests are with the early, non-mass-produced cars. Right from learning to drive I always wanted a V12 front engined Ferrari. I use the car for weekend drives and the 'easy' type of motorsport - eg, Mille Miglia type touring events and navigation trials as opposed to serious track events. Kelly La Velle PS: for the sake of clarity I should confess that I am female, and 29, which will probably disrupt the demographics of the list somewhat. From cak Mon Feb 2 16:50:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA03450; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:50:36 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:50:36 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199802030050.QAA03450@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: Kelly.K.LaVelle@woodside.com.au Subject: Re: list newbie/elec ignition Cc: ferrari-vintage Kelly, You're certainly not the youngest person on the list, nor the first female, though you may be the youngest owner here. Welcome. I'm interested in the details of your electronic conversion. In particular, I'd like to know if it requires any external black boxes. I've been slowly tracking down the poosbility of an "ignitor" conversion that fits entirely inside the distributor. (In fact, I just made the phone call I've been putting off to follow the next link in the chain, but reached the dreaded voice mail.) That's what I'd like to install in our 330 - does away with the hassles of setting up dual points (much less finding new Marelli points when the time comes!) but looks dead stock. From cak Wed Feb 4 09:46:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA00970; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:46:49 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:46:49 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199802041746.JAA00970@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: len@250GTE.com Subject: Re: Potential new member Cc: ferrari-vintage Sure, I'll second Alan Boe - is he online? Is he interested? That would be *great*. From cak Wed Feb 4 12:11:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA01524; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:11:46 -0800 Received: from rsnodgrass.amazon.com (rsnodgrass.amazon.com [208.216.181.174]) by amazon.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA23951 for ; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:11:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802042011.MAA23951@amazon.com> From: "Ryan Snodgrass" To: Subject: Ferrari literature forsale Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:11:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Company-Confidential I have decided it is time to weed out of my Ferrari literature collection duplicate items and other things that are outside the scope of my Ferrari interest. So I spent a few hours this weekend going through what I have and putting together a list of the items that I have for sale. If you are interested, write me e-mail at ryan.snodgrass@usa.net. I have some factory stuff for the 365 GTB, 275GTS/GTB, and 365 GTC 2+2 as well if you are interested. I haven't decided whether or no I am getting rid of those items, but I can let you know what I have if you may be interested. Ryan From cak Thu Feb 5 07:42:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA00584; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 07:42:54 -0800 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p81.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.81]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA16760 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 16:41:58 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34D9DBAD.BC53208F@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 16:33:01 +0100 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: Introduction Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Thanks for making me a member of the Ferrari Vintage List. First I'll introduce myself : I'm a 20 year old student (BusinessInformationTechnology) at the University of Twente in the Netherlands and my biggest hobby is .... well you know .... Ferrari. I don't have a Ferrari yet, but I'll try to get one in the (near?) future. Ferrari really means a lot to me, especially the history of the make and its cars. I've met some great persons (all because of the Internet), who gave me some valuable information like special books and registers. I have my own homepage ( http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/ferrari/60/ ) and thanks to that I also met some great people. My main interest is everything related to the chassisnumbers of Ferrari. I'm subscribed to a magazine called "Telaio", which has nothing else than chassisnumbers, chassisnumbers and chassisnumbers. So, when you have some info I might be interested in, please let me know. I really like to do some 'research', so if you're looking for the history of a specific car, please tell me !! As I told you, I have my own homepage. I'll update it soon, but I really need some 'interesting' topics. I want to write something about two cars (my favorite Ferraris, the 375 MM "Bergmann" and the yellow 412 P, c/n 0850), but I want YOU to give me some other interesting topics. So, please tell me what you like, and I'll write a nice story about it. Thanks in advance ! Greetings, Edvar van Daalen -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen From cak Thu Feb 5 11:16:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01401; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:16:51 -0800 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA123922 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 21:16:17 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id VAA16788 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 21:16:24 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199802051916.VAA16788@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Re: Intr... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 21:16:20 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'm a 20 year old student (BusinessInformationTechnology) at the > University of Twente in the Netherlands and my biggest hobby is .... > well you know .... Ferrari. I don't have a Ferrari yet, but I'll try to > get one in the (near?) future. Maybe we should put together an "introduction sheet" including a one-line description of each of the subscribers - there are about 20 people and at least I have lost count some time ago... Should also be interesting to list all the Ferraris owned by people attending. 2105-2553-2655-3197-3351-3835-4799-5629-5767-8705-9161-15505-15625 (Am I missing any - are there errors...?) Of Curse Bruce used to own 1063... > My main interest is everything related to the chassisnumbers of Ferrari. > I'm subscribed to a magazine called "Telaio", which has nothing else > than chassisnumbers, chassisnumbers and chassisnumbers. So, when you > have some info I might be interested in, please let me know. I really > like to do some 'research', so if you're looking for the history of a > specific car, please tell me !! I think I'm the numbers-nut case of this group - Greg sitting of course on my right; especially when it comes to even numbered cars. Might be worthwhile to list all the existing registers - for sometime ago I tried to track down a PF Coupe register with no luck - there must be one, mustn't there? I'm of course most interested in the few Ferraris owned by Finns in the late 50s; 750 Monza: 0500M and 0568M 500 TR: 0610MDTR 500 TRC: 0702MDTR 250 TR: 0724TR 250 GT: 0723GT Everything I know of these cars should be well listed on Mergard's (Pirro) site - with some exceptions, like 0724TR entering the Nurburgring 1958 race. The complete history of 0723GT isn't available through the site (yet?) but I can send it to anyone interested. Several books seem to include jealous lies about how the car was destroyed in early 1960's (spread by someone who couldn't afford bying it for himself when it was last offered for sale in 1966...?) I'm pretty happy that the dead original car still remains in Finland. I'm also interested in all Scandinavian events up to early 60's - so all news about them can be guided as well this way... From cak Thu Feb 5 11:40:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01479; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:40:43 -0800 Received: from localhost by verdi.engr.utk.edu with SMTP (SMI-8.6/2.8s-UTK.UTCC) id TAA10244; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 19:38:22 GMT Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:38:21 -0500 (EST) From: Erik Nielsen To: Kare M A Pietil{ cc: Ferrari Vintage Subject: Re: Intr... In-Reply-To: <199802051916.VAA16788@happi.hut.fi> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII add one to the list 18759 365 gt4 2+2 ---------------------------------- Erik C. Nielsen ---------------------------------- Servizo Non-Autorizato Ferrari Tutte le riparazioni garantite fino alla messa in strada. From cak Thu Feb 5 15:35:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA02802; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:35:34 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:35:34 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199802052335.PAA02802@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Intr... Maybe we should put together an "introduction sheet" including a one-line description of each of the subscribers - there are about 20 people and at least I have lost count some time ago... Should also be interesting to list all the Ferraris owned by people attending. Sure, seems like a reasonable idea. Send *me* (not the list) your entry - one (well, a couple) line intro and cars you've owned - and I'll gather them together. From cak Sat Feb 7 17:12:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA01572; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:11:55 -0800 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p122.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.122]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00403 for ; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 11:02:34 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34DC29D4.43B98189@worldonline.nl> Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 10:31:00 +0100 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: Potential new members Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I know that I'm new on the list, but maybe these two persons are also a valuable addition to the list : * Bert de Boer ; subscribed to the 'normal' Mailing List and he is doing reseach about the 340 America. He knows a lot about pre-1955 cars. Email : fer340am@wxs.nl * Gerald Roush ; You know him (FML). He was on the other list for some time, but I think that he left because of all the 'garbage'. Email : ferrmktltr@earthlink.net Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen From cak Sat Feb 7 17:44:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA02198; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:44:43 -0800 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p24.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.24]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA27942; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 21:55:58 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34DB7780.D91FFC8A@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 21:50:08 +0100 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kare M A Pietil{ CC: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: Re: Intr... References: <199802051916.VAA16788@happi.hut.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kare M A Pietil{ wrote: > 2105-2553-2655-3197-3351-3835-4799-5629-5767-8705-9161-15505-15625 > (Am I missing any - are there errors...?) > > Of Curse Bruce used to own 1063... Is there a list of owners, just like the list I made of the owners of the 'normal' Mailing List ??? > I think I'm the numbers-nut case of this group - Greg sitting of course > on my right; especially when it comes to even numbered cars. I admit that I'm only an starting 'amateur', but "do never underestimate your opponent" :) > Might be worthwhile to list all the existing registers - for sometime ago > I tried to track down a PF Coupe register with no luck - there must be one, > mustn't there? I know the 250 GTE register (Hi Len!), the Dino register (Denny Schue), the 250 Cabriolet register (Jeff Rowe) and of course many 'country' registers. > I'm of course most interested in the few Ferraris owned by Finns in the > late 50s; > 750 Monza: 0500M and 0568M > 500 TR: 0610MDTR > 500 TRC: 0702MDTR > 250 TR: 0724TR > 250 GT: 0723GT > > Everything I know of these cars should be well listed on Mergard's (Pirro) > site - with some exceptions, like 0724TR entering the Nurburgring 1958 race. This entry is also missing in my new (but GOOD) book by Michael Graf. He only lists 0704, 0726, 0728, 0736, 0748 (all 250 TR), 0746 (Dino 196S), 0509 and 0901 (TdF). Nothing about 0724 TR ..... > The complete history of 0723GT isn't available through the site (yet?) but > I can send it to anyone interested. Several books seem to include jealous > lies about how the car was destroyed in early 1960's (spread by someone who > couldn't afford bying it for himself when it was last offered for sale in > 1966...?) I'm pretty happy that the dead original car still remains in Finland. I'm interested. Please mail me. > I'm also interested in all Scandinavian events up to early 60's - so all news > about them can be guided as well this way... Do you have an overview ?? Maybe I can find something in the Graf-book. Greetings, Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen From cak Sat Feb 7 18:09:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA02437; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 18:09:41 -0800 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p24.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.24]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA27800; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 21:55:31 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34DB7766.917C4DE3@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 21:49:42 +0100 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kare M A Pietil{ , Ferrari Vintage List Subject: 250 GT Spider California questions References: <199802041325.PAA27257@happi.hut.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by triton.worldonline.nl id VAA27800 Hi, I'll try to answer your question about the three 250 GT Spider=20 California's, with chassisnumbers 1507 GT, 2301 GT and 2311 SA.=20 Because Greg is interested in this also, I decided to mail this to=20 the Vintage List also. *** 1507 GT *** * Nowak says that it's a Spider California, but that this is not=20 confirmed yet. * Raab also says it's a Spider California. The enginetype is not given=20 in her list, so I can't check if it's indeed a type 128 DF (as you=20 told me). * In Eaton's book this number is missing. Still no real 'facts'. Does anyone know more ?? *** 2301 GT *** In the Opera Omnia there is a California-register made by Nowak.=20 He says about 2301 GT : > date of manufacture : January 28, 1961 > first owner was Vittorio Emanuele (F). Destroyed in an accident. > Engine 2301 GT last reported in 1319 GT, a Pininfarina Coup=E9. Chassis > parts used to make up a fake Spider California. Cavalleria 16 (250 California SWB) by Seibert and Carrieri says : > Completed on January 28, 1961 and sold to Prince Vittorio Emanuele di > Savoia, Geneva, Switserland. The car was pictured in the 1961 Ferrari > factory yearbook, but was later destroyed in an accident. The engine > was then installed in a 250 GT, serial 3405 GT, owned by Siebenthal > and fitted with a Drogo body, and was later reported to be installed > in a 250 GT Pininfarina Coup=E9, serial 1319 GT. What were alleged to > be chassis parts from the original car were used to make up a "Spider > California", which was last reported to be in Switzerland. The strange thing is, that in June 1996 and 1997 at the circuit of=20 Zandvoort (Holland) there was a yellow 250 GT SWB Competizione with=20 chassisnumber 2301 GT and registration plate HZ-90-ST (NL) ! This plate=20 was also used by Guus Bierman (Holland) on a red 275 GTB Shortnose,=20 chassisnumber 07459 at the AvD Oldtimer GP in 1988. I don't know why this car has c/n 2301 GT, but I heard stories that=20 people from Holland are good in making replicas .... :( *** 2311 SA *** Cavalleria 16 (250 California SWB) by Seibert and Carrieri says : > Completed on May 5,1961, this car is sometimes erroneously identified > as a 250 GT Spider California. It is actually a 400 SuperAmerica=20 > bodied by Scaglietti with a Spider California body on the slightly=20 > longer (2420 mm) SA chassis. The car was built for Michel Paul=20 > Cavallier, president of the French Pont-a-Mousson transmission=20 > company, and a director of SEFAC. This car used a right hand drive=20 > chassis; a similar body was alleged constructed on a second, left=20 > hand drive 400 SA chassis as well. The serialnumber and further=20 > history of this second car, if it ever did exist, are unknown. In Prunet's "The Road Cars" there is a picture of 2311 SA with=20 plates 7 HLA. But I think that it's a British plate and not a French=20 as you told me. The books also says that the last known owner was=20 D. van der Lof from Holland. If you want, I can scan the picture and mail it to you.=20 Greetings, Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 =20 7608 NA Almelo =20 The Netherlands =20 Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen From cak Sun Feb 8 16:17:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA01710; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:17:28 -0800 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA220322 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 22:02:25 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id WAA24359 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 22:02:33 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199802062002.WAA24359@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Re: Intr... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 22:02:32 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > add one to the list > 18759 > 365 gt4 2+2 I also forgot Mr. Paul Vasquez's 250GT Pf Coupe, which I believe is 1743GT. From cak Sun Feb 8 16:16:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA01703; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:16:20 -0800 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA83406 for ; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:17:48 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id QAA26699 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:17:55 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199802071417.QAA26699@happi.hut.fi> Subject: 250 GT Spider California questions To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:17:54 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > *** 1507 GT *** > * Nowak says that it's a Spider California, but that this is not > confirmed yet. > * Raab also says it's a Spider California. The enginetype is not given > in her list, so I can't check if it's indeed a type 128 DF (as you > told me). My Nowak suggests it to be a 250 GTE prototipo - this entry with a few other almost naiive comments have given me the impression, that when something was not known, an educated guess was used and in some cases just a wild guess... DF-engines started with the first Interim 1509GT so 1507GT being an test engine must be another educated guess - i don't know who came up with it. > *** 2301 GT *** > The strange thing is, that in June 1996 and 1997 at the circuit of > Zandvoort (Holland) there was a yellow 250 GT SWB Competizione with > chassisnumber 2301 GT and registration plate HZ-90-ST (NL) ! This plate > was also used by Guus Bierman (Holland) on a red 275 GTB Shortnose, > chassisnumber 07459 at the AvD Oldtimer GP in 1988. > I don't know why this car has c/n 2301 GT, but I heard stories that > people from Holland are good in making replicas .... :( It's like Scylla and Charybdis: waste one genuine car and you end up with at least three replicas all claimed to be correct cars with history... > *** 2311 SA *** > In Prunet's "The Road Cars" there is a picture of 2311 SA with > plates 7 HLA. But I think that it's a British plate and not a French > as you told me. The books also says that the last known owner was > D. van der Lof from Holland. The plates being possibly French was just another educated guess as in the Classic & Sportscar review ages ago they claimed that the car was residing in France - if I remember right. And on the other hand I've never seen a UK-plate quite like it... (not to say it cannot be one...) Too bad I don't have the mag left - I only have one picture of the car... Do you have any additional information on the two 4-litre GTE's - if they ever existed - numbers 2257 and 2947...? Almost all sources seem to recognise these cars, but fail to know anything about them besides that the first one was delivered to Cavallier and the latter to Enzo himself...? From cak Sun Feb 8 16:16:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA01701; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:16:16 -0800 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA249004 for ; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:47:42 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id QAA26793 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:47:49 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199802071447.QAA26793@happi.hut.fi> Subject: History of 0723GT... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:47:48 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here you go with the history of 0723 as I know it: > 04/57 Completed. Used for advertising photos. 1st three louver car. > 06/08/57 Sold new to Carl-Johan Ascolin, Helsinki, Finland. > Raced for Scuderia Ascolin by Curt Lincoln > 11/08/57 Swedish GP, Kristianstad, Lincoln, 1st in GT > 11/05/58 Helsinki GP, Lincoln, 1st in GT (transfer plates: "A-1967") > .. Taken by flight to Spa (12-hour race?) together with 0724TR > immediately after Helsinki GP, but didn't enter because of > insufficient starting money. > 1958 Nurburgring 1000-km-race, Geitel-Finnila, 3rd in GT, 13th OA > late 58 Possibly sold to Sweden? > 1959 Midnight Sun Rally, Sweden, John Kvarnstrom/Gunnar Andersson, 1st > 1961 Holger Laine (and Esko Keinanen?) imported back into Finland > (Never raced after returning to Finland) > 1961 Mr. Virho, Hameenlinna, Finland (reg: "HR-163") > (Original car still in Ascolin colours: blue with white stripe) > 1964 Kerkko Keinonen (at least he was seen at the wheel occasionally?) > (reg: "BP-560" or "BP-570"; car was green at the time?) > 1965 For sale in Helsinki by car store "Veho". > 1965? Dr. Kai Enkola, Naantali, Finland (reg: "EBZ-33"; yellow?) > 1966-67 Dr. Elo, Helsinki (reg: "GKG-33"; restored back into Ascolin > colours: blue with white stripe) > 1980? Historic Race in Falkenberg, Sweden (blown head gasket) > Borrowed for the race by Fred Geitel/Rafu Huhta (who couldn't > resist claiming he owned the car - which was untrue of course) > .. Engine completely overhauled by a Swedish specialist who used to > to work as a mechanic for Scuderia Svezia. > 1992 Helsinki GP 60 years commemorative run > 1997 Still with Mr. Elo, who wishes to remain anonyme. > > I personally am under impression, that since Mr. Huhta couldn't afford > buying the car in his day he started to come up with these stories how > the car was destroyed or heavily modified and that the car remaining in > Finland is not 0723GT at all. He has no proof of all this - on the other > hand pictures do exist that show that the car survived all of its racing > days with no accidents. He is said to have the "Advertising man's syndrome" > - 50% of all he says is true, but you never know which part... Any additions - facts or hearsay - welcome. I've seen the entry of Pourret book on 250GT's (copied directly to Starkey book on TdF's) and it simply makes no sense... From cak Mon Feb 9 10:40:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01367; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:40:42 -0800 From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com Received: by isserv9.idx.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 852565A6.00669741 ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:40:33 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IDX1 To: ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <852565A6.0062C019.00@isserv9.idx.com> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:40:29 -0500 Subject: Series III headlight rims needed for 250 GTE Restoration Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Gang, Well, the body shop is back at the GTE and hopefully I'll have it back in my shop by spring. I'm looking for a pair of Series III GTE headlight rims (Ferrari part # 241 82 03010), and have been for a while. I have tried all of the better known sources here in the US, including Dennis McCann, and have sent ads to Gerald Roush (FML) and Len Miller (GTE Newsletter). Our car, #3351 is a series II car but the nose has series II headlight rims and Series III indicator and driving lights. When I bought the car, it was fitted with headlight rims similar to those on Series III cars and since the front looked like series III, I figured that a "new" front clip had been put on the car. This was not the case, however, as when I stripped the paint and bondo from the car, I discovered that the original black paint went all the way into the headlight openings, and that the sheet metal was all original. The headlight openings were Series II and the driving lights were mounted just below the headlights, a la series III. The driving light housings were welded into the nose and leaded in in a fashion similar to that used in a Series III car that I examined, but not exactly the same. Since our car was built in March 1962, was this modification some sort of prototype, a special order modification, or just an "upgrade" that was later added when collision damage repairs were made to the nose? Over the years, I have written the factory, as well as Pininfarina to try to get answere to this question. Unfortunately, neither can, or will help. So what to do? Unless I make the car "standard" series II, FCA judges will penalize me, however, I'm not convinced that the car was ever "standard" series II. Sooo I'm going to leave the driving lights where they are and use either Series III rims if I can find them (because I like them) or use series II rims if I can't. A couple of years ago I asked Alan Boe what he thought about this whole situation and he said that the car very probably was built with the "odd" driving lights. Basically, I've decided that I really don't care what the FCA judges think, and my kids can worry about how this decision affects the future value of the car. Obviously, I would be very interested if any of you have ever seen a production Series I or Series II 250 GTE with non standard driving lights. I know that the early prototypes have various light configurations and that some production versions came with hood scoops and other "special" modifications. Alan Boe's article on the GTE that appeared in the Prancing Horse a few years ago showed some interim taillights that appeared on a few Series II examples; it is interesting that our car is fitted with these odd tailights as well. Unfortunately Boe's example car, which was 5 build numbers away from #3351, had a stock series II nose. These little mysteries are what make owning these old beasts interesting -- as always your thoughts and comments are welcome. Sincerely, Bob Weeks Georgia Center, Vermont From cak Mon Feb 9 13:19:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02109; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:19:45 -0800 Received: from 207.211.62.86 (p11.hwts10.loop.net [207.211.62.86]) by stevie.loop.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id NAA15996; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:18:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34DEF95E.6732@loop.com> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 12:41:05 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@loop.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert_Weeks@idx.com CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Series III headlight rims needed for 250 GTE Restoration References: <852565A6.0062C019.00@isserv9.idx.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, 3835, my car, has the one peice taillights and a Series II front clip. The interesting thing for me is that there is also a reverse lamp located at the middle, bottom of the rear in addition to the 'reverse' sections of the one peice taillamps. I was beginning to think that the tailight's were an 'accident' upgrade, but now maybee not. Anyway, The fellow in upstate New York, Fred Petroski, (hold back the flames Dave) - got a Series III bodyshell from San Deigo about a year ago. It had good front Series III headlamp rings on it. Also I'm sort of looking for some series II rings myself, if I come across something in So. Cal. I'll let you know. There's a guy here who is parting out some PF coupes, I'll check with him over the next few days as well as I got a fuseholder cover and some window winder stuff for my car from him just before Christmas. Andrew. From cak Mon Feb 9 13:42:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02281; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:42:00 -0800 From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com Received: by isserv9.idx.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 852565A6.00772CB9 ; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:41:42 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IDX1 To: ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <852565A6.00764536.00@isserv9.idx.com> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:41:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Series III headlight rims needed for 250 GTE Restoration Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Andrew, I have a pair of NOS Series II rims will sell them when I figure out what I'm doing with #3351. The one piece taillghts that appeared on a few series II had different colored lenses than the series III's and a reflector in the position of the backup lenses. The backup light was centered under the bumper. In addition, the odd series II's had a small trapazoidal raised piece sculpted in the bodywork under the bottom of the taillight housing. This piece was leaded in and is small enough that it could be all lead; I don't know as I did not remove the lead. In any case, this trapazoid did not appear on "normal" series I's, II's or on Series III's. Bob abrent@loop.com 02/09/98 07:41 AM Please respond to abrent@loop.com cc: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Subject: Re: Series III headlight rims needed for 250 GTE Restoration Hi All, 3835, my car, has the one peice taillights and a Series II front clip. The interesting thing for me is that there is also a reverse lamp located at the middle, bottom of the rear in addition to the 'reverse' sections of the one peice taillamps. I was beginning to think that the tailight's were an 'accident' upgrade, but now maybee not. Anyway, The fellow in upstate New York, Fred Petroski, (hold back the flames Dave) - got a Series III bodyshell from San Deigo about a year ago. It had good front Series III headlamp rings on it. Also I'm sort of looking for some series II rings myself, if I come across something in So. Cal. I'll let you know. There's a guy here who is parting out some PF coupes, I'll check with him over the next few days as well as I got a fuseholder cover and some window winder stuff for my car from him just before Christmas. Andrew. From cak Tue Feb 10 12:00:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA01357; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:00:29 -0800 From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com Received: by isserv9.idx.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 852565A7.006DE25C ; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:00:13 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IDX1 To: ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <852565A7.006CBDE1.00@isserv9.idx.com> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:00:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Series III headlight rims needed for 250 GTE Restoration Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Andrew, As far as I have been able to determine, the Series III headlight rims were used only on GTE's. These rims, unlike a lot of other Ferrari rims, were cast in "white metal" and as far as I can tell were not used on any other make of car. It is also odd that no manufacturer or part # information was cast into the rims. The rims for the Series I 330 GT 2+2 were also cast but were marked with the Altissimo part numbers. Last nite I dug out the 4th Q 1987 Prancing Horse that has Alan Boes GTE article. The odd batch of taillight lenses that were used on our car had an amber lens over a red lens, with a reflector at the bottom. Standard Series III lenses were red on top with a clear backup section and a small reflector at the bottom; I believe that the both the turnsignal and brake sections were red but can't tell from the picture in the article. Bob From cak Wed Feb 11 09:39:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA00948; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:38:56 -0800 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p93.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.93]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04118; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:38:06 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34E1E0DD.A62496A5@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:33:17 +0100 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kare M A Pietila CC: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: 2311 SA and more .... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, About 2311 SA : As I said, it was owned by A.J.M. van der Lof from Holland. In another source (from 1987) I found that it was also owned by J.C. Bajol from France and that it was (is?) owned by M.T. Hilton from the UK, with plates 7 HLA. This explains the error ....... About 2257 and 2947 : I couldn't find any useful information. In the weekend I'll look in other sources and if I find something, I'll let you know. BTW, does Len Miller knows more ?? Also thanks for the info about 0723 GT. I'll send you my own info in the weekend. Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen From cak Wed Feb 11 19:49:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA03088; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:49:00 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd26-181.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.217.181]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA05150 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:48:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Ignition problems Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:37:08 -0600 Message-ID: <01bd3767$7ecf0ea0$27fdaec7@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A4_01BD3735.34349EA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01BD3735.34349EA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It appears that I've lost the right side bank on the C4. One = possibility is that the right electronic control module for the ignition = (which is conventional distributors) has bitten the dust. (The left = side module had to be replaced just before I bought the car.) I = appreciate your thoughts on the following. I would like to confirm the module is the problem. Here's how I plan to = do that. 1) Switch the two modules. 2) Assuming the right side module is at fault, the left side should now = fail and the right bank should work. What I don't know is if there is any calibration or other work that has = to be done on a module when it is installed or in my case switched = left-to-right. If it's just a matter of physically unhooking, removing, = and re-installing...no problem. If I need to tinker with electrical = settings to reset or re-calibate a module, I'm probably better off just = hauling the car to the dealer. TIA. Regards, =20 Bryan ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01BD3735.34349EA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It appears that I've lost the right = side bank on=20 the C4.  One possibility is that the right electronic control = module for=20 the ignition (which is conventional distributors) has bitten the = dust. =20 (The left side module had to be replaced just before I bought the = car.)  I=20 appreciate your thoughts on the following.
 
I would like to confirm the module is the = problem. =20 Here's how I plan to do that.
1) Switch the two modules. 
2) Assuming the right side module is at fault, the = left side=20 should now fail and the right bank should work. 
 
What I don't know is if there is any calibration or = other work=20 that has to be done on a module when it is installed or in my case = switched=20 left-to-right.  If it's just a matter of physically unhooking, = removing,=20 and re-installing...no problem.  If I need to tinker with = electrical=20 settings to reset or re-calibate a module, I'm probably better off just = hauling=20 the car to the dealer.
 
TIA.
 
Regards, =20
Bryan
 
------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01BD3735.34349EA0-- From cak Thu Feb 12 16:58:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA02186; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:58:34 -0800 Received: by krypton.woodside.com.au; id IAA18858; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:58:01 +0800 Received: from perm02.woodside.com.au(158.89.192.54) by krypton.woodside.com.au via smap (4.0a) id xma018817; Fri, 13 Feb 98 08:57:03 +0800 Received: by perm02.woodside.com.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <1MJBH4Z9>; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:58:29 +0800 Message-ID: <11C957791F80D111978500805F85938006EDFC@perm03.woodside.com.au> From: "LaVelle, Kelly K." To: "'Vint List'" Subject: Potential new list member with 330 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:57:52 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" May I nominate Bob Gruder for the list? He is subscribed to the 'main' list, but like all of us, would prefer a V12 forum. Bob's car is a 330GT 2+2 - an early series 2 car, s/n 8095. He has carried out quite a lot of work on his car and is very willing to share his experiences. He has been of tremendous help to me in finding out technical information on the many shared components of 365/330 - his info and advice on mechanical and electric fuel pumps alone has saved me a lot of time and trouble. His e-mail is: bobgru@MICROSOFT.com I hope we can welcome him to the list. Kelly 365GT 2+2 s/n 12009 From cak Fri Feb 13 06:38:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00407; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 06:38:13 -0800 From: GT40MIRAGE@aol.com Received: from GT40MIRAGE@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id PAOLa16260 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:37:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6cb04bc4.34e45aad@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:37:31 EST To: ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: 330 4 mount motor requirement Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 61 I am looking for a complete engine and tranmission to install in s/n 0493 Series 1 410 Superamerica or ideally a lampredi engine(nice to want). ideas suggestions Tom Shaughnessy (714) 366 6211work (714) 366 6263 home From cak Fri Feb 13 08:55:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA00769; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:54:58 -0800 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p103.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.103]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20922; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:54:17 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34E466E1.D087945D@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:29:37 +0100 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: GT40MIRAGE@aol.com CC: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: Re: 330 4 mount motor requirement References: <6cb04bc4.34e45aad@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GT40MIRAGE@aol.com wrote: > > I am looking for a complete engine and tranmission to install in > s/n 0493 Series 1 410 Superamerica > or ideally a lampredi engine (nice to want). I can't help you now, but have you seen the pictures of 0493 SA on the Pirro-site ?? Maybe you have seen it already, but they are very nice anyway. The history says it had engine 0450 AM (375 MM), which now is in 0376 AM (the 375 MM of Mergard / Ihm). It also said that Gary Drenik from Venice also searched for a engine (in 1986!), so I wish you good luck ;) To see the pictures / history : * http://www.pirro.com/All.Ferraris/All.Ferraris.htm * Just follow "Maranello", "Ferraris by Serialnumber", then "Odd serial numbers" and finally 0493. * 29 pictures, including engine, interior and paperwork. Very nice ! If the server is too slow, I can also mail you the pictures. (tot. 1.5 Mb) Greetings, Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen From cak Fri Feb 13 20:32:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA02725; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:32:13 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd79-163.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.189.163]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA02941; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:31:34 -0800 (PST) From: "Bryan Cashion" To: , Subject: Re: 330 4 mount motor requirement Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:25:13 -0600 Message-ID: <01bd3900$8b3c25c0$a3bdafce@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E3_01BD38CE.40A1B5C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01BD38CE.40A1B5C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I suppose you've checked with Mike Sheehan (or not...) and/or Steve = Tillack. They seem to periodically have the odd engine lying around. =20 Ferrari of Houston is rebuilding the engine on a 250 GT Europa with the = Lampredi engine. Maybe they have a line on what you need. Contact Tony = Nevotti at tnevotti@msn.com Are you putting in the 4L engine to reduce costs or something other = reason? Regards, =20 Bryan -----Original Message----- From: GT40MIRAGE@aol.com To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Date: Friday, February 13, 1998 9:53 AM Subject: 330 4 mount motor requirement =20 =20 I am looking for a complete engine and tranmission to install in s/n = 0493=20 Series 1 410 Superamerica or ideally a lampredi engine(nice to want). =20 ideas suggestions =20 Tom Shaughnessy (714) 366 6211work (714) 366 6263 home ------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01BD38CE.40A1B5C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I suppose you've checked with Mike = Sheehan (or=20 not...) and/or Steve Tillack.  They seem to periodically have the = odd=20 engine lying around. 
 
Ferrari of Houston is rebuilding the engine on a 250 = GT Europa=20 with the Lampredi engine.  Maybe they have a line on what you = need. =20 Contact Tony Nevotti at tnevotti@msn.com
 
Are you putting in the 4L engine to reduce costs or = something=20 other reason?
 
Regards,  =
Bryan
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 GT40MIRAGE@aol.com = <GT40MIRAGE@aol.com>
To: = ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com= =20 <ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com= >
Date:=20 Friday, February 13, 1998 9:53 AM
Subject: 330 4 mount = motor=20 requirement

I am looking for a complete engine = and=20 tranmission to install in s/n 0493
Series 1 410 = Superamerica
or=20 ideally a lampredi engine(nice to=20 want).

ideas
suggestions

Tom Shaughnessy
(714) = 366=20 6211work
(714) 366 6263 home ------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01BD38CE.40A1B5C0-- From cak Fri Feb 13 20:32:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA02724; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:32:06 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd79-163.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.189.163]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA02884 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:31:27 -0800 (PST) From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Bob Grudem's nomination Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:25:07 -0600 Message-ID: <01bd3900$87c41600$a3bdafce@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00DD_01BD38CE.3D29A600" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00DD_01BD38CE.3D29A600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is Bob's note introducing himself to the other list. Read it to = get a feel for his knowledge for the marque. I second Kelly's = nomination Regards, =20 Bryan -----Original Message----- From: Bob Grudem To: 'ferrari@SoftHome.net' Date: Monday, February 09, 1998 9:43 PM Subject: First year's impressions (long) Hello all, This is out of the blue -- I just rejoined the mailing list after being = off it for more than a year -- but I thought some of you might be interested = or amused by my impressions of the first year of ownership of a 33-year-old Ferrari. If you're not into old V12s or how well toddlers fit into the = back seat, now's the time to delete. This is the human-interest side of = things, not the technical details, sort of a payback for the help and kind words = I got in my endeavor from certain people on this alias. There's no mention = of racing or speed or ego-flattery. After a few months to decide which model I wanted (330 GT 2+2), and a = few more months to check out some specimens, I settled on a local car = advertised in the Ferrari Market Letter. Thanks to this alias, contacts I'd made at = a local Concours, and membership in the Ferrari Club of America, I had = good advice and even hands-on help evaluating the cars. I was seduced by the sight and sound of this one. During the test drive the steering was very loose, and the brake pedal sank to the floor after half a minute at a = stop light. The owner agreed to fix those problems after which I'd look = again. A few more months passed. Part of my early training was that everything = takes a long time with this car except getting from point A to point B. = January 30th, 1997, I visited the car at the shop, drove it around the block, = bought it, and stuck it right back in the shop.=20 The day before, the mechanic had told me it had "noisy valves" and would require extensive repairs to the valve train -- two to three weeks. Ten agonizing weeks later, the car finally made it to my driveway. = Agonizing, because the moment the engine was opened more problems were discovered. = For two of those weeks I thought I might need another set of heads. I was = afraid I'd bought a basket case even after taking such care to avoid it. New valves, valve seats, valve guides, rollers, bearings for rollers, cam-polishing, cylinder head machining. Thanks to the previous owner I = had a newly rebuilt master brake cylinder, new brake pads, and new tie rod = ends. I was worried that the car would get hung up on the sidewalk at the = entrance to my driveway. The curb is high enough that a friend's 348tb couldn't = get over it. The 330 cleared the curb and settled into the hollow between sidewalk and driveway with the tailpipes a few centimeters above the sidewalk. I pulled it into the garage, cranking the wheels after the car = was halfway in to account for the angled approach. The next day, I'd = forgotten all about having cranked the wheels. I pulled it out straight and put on = the emergency brake so I could get out, listen, and stare while it warmed = up. That's when I noticed the body was literally a centimeter above my = concrete steps, that by blind luck I'd stopped in time to avoid crunching it. The second major embarrassment was that I'd pulled the parking brake so hard = I couldn't get it off. After fifteen minutes of swearing and fighting the button on the top of the lever, I got it off, pulled into the garage = again and came out correctly. Since then I always get out of the garage and = down to the sidewalk where I can apply the brake lightly. Then I can close = the garage door and listen to the engine galloping up to a steady state. = There's a smudge on the sidewalk behind the tailpipes. So, I was ready for the first family outing in our new car. Both kids = were installed in their carseats in the back. The 330 is big enough that the kids' shoes could just rest on the tops of the front seats. To summarize = the lesson from the various family outings: only the driver is comfortable, = and he (always he -- my wife drove it around a parking lot once and decided = that was enough) gets pretty hot. The best day for this car is bright and = cool. If it's a warm day, make sure you have something to drink. After one particularly hot day, my body was trembling and tingling so badly I = thought I was going to pass out. You need your strength because it's heavy = manual steering and a heavy hydraulic clutch. Be careful on wet days, too. = Perhaps it was just me getting used to the clutch, but on a damp day there was a = lot of fishtailing around town. Most of the summer it was me driving alone, contributing more than my = fair share of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere. I live about two miles from work, which isn't enough for the car to warm up, so I go the opposite direction and make a scenic tour of it. By the time the car is warm and = I'm in the groove, I have to park it. But that morning drive was a pleasant ritual. In the course of putting on about 5000 km (all the gauges are in Italian = and metric!), I learned more repairs were needed. After a couple of disappointing days of the car shutting off quietly at inconvenient = times, I had it trucked back to the shop for a new electric fuel pump. Apparently = the primary mechanical pump had long since given up, and the electric one, intended mainly to build up fuel pressure for starting the engine, was = also going bad. From those incidents I learned that the parking brake is not = a substitute for power-assisted brakes -- kill that daydream immediately. = This car is heavy. The parking brake is relatively tiny and can only slow you when you're hardly moving to begin with. I also discovered (perhaps this = was when the mechanical fuel pump was still barely working) that the car = would stall after too much time in slow traffic. On my morning tour I learned = to avoid the predictable rush hour traffic jams. New pumps may fix the stalling, but the heavy clutch is still no fun in stop-and-go traffic. The steering was still a bit loose. It's characteristic of old cars, I = was told, but in pursuing it I found out the front suspension was in pretty = bad shape. The alignment shop said it couldn't be aligned and I really = shouldn't be driving it! The car sometimes wouldn't start. I thought it was a matter of learning = how many times to depress the accelerator after the electric fuel pump = stopped clicking (six times on a cold motor seems to work best, and turn that = key immediately after the sixth time or you'll get to do it again). However, sometimes I couldn't get a click out of the starter. One day a friend graciously volunteered a photo shoot during his lunch hour. After a = couple of shots I tried to move the car but it wouldn't start! He finished the = roll of film, we tried again, and it started. It was unpredictable. Carlo = says the solenoid should be rebuilt. Given all of the above, it's seems appropriate that on my first = anniversary of purchasing a Ferrari, I was allowed to visit it in the shop while = the suspension, starter, and various other mechanical glitches were being = fixed. It's been there since mid-September, partly for my convenience, partly because everything takes time with this car. As the weather gets occasionally nicer, I'm starting to long for my morning drive in the = other direction. I'm hoping that this year I will be able to rely on it more. = It only stranded me once, on a nice day when I wasn't in a hurry, but I = could do without the anxiety, especially if the family is along for the ride. With all of the problems, why do I keep it? I can hardly wait to hear it again. The exhaust note at 5000 rpm is my drug of choice, and the = windows are always down. I like the way it looks. There's something deeply satisfying about the idea of a hand-built car. To top it off, I had the thrill of visiting the factory last October. My pre-purchase education = about company history paid off nicely. I could recognize almost everything I = saw. Even though I don't "turn wrenches" myself, I feel as though I know a = lot about this car. Of course, I've left out a lot, and some details I'd rather keep to = myself (this is a HOBBY, not an investment!). But I welcome questions or = comments. Since I didn't talk much about how it actually looks, here's a reward = for those who made it this far. Enjoy! http://users.tss.net/fcanwr/gallery.htm Look for "Bob and Suzanne's 330 GT 2+2. s/n 8095" ------=_NextPart_000_00DD_01BD38CE.3D29A600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here is Bob's note introducing = himself to the=20 other list.  Read it to get a feel for his knowledge for the = marque. =20 I second Kelly's nomination
 
 
Regards,  =
Bryan
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Bob Grudem <bobgru@microsoft.com>
T= o: 'ferrari@SoftHome.net' <ferrari@SoftHome.net>
D= ate:=20 Monday, February 09, 1998 9:43 PM
Subject: First year's=20 impressions (long)

Hello all,

This is out of = the blue=20 -- I just rejoined the mailing list after being off
it for more than = a year=20 -- but I thought some of you might be interested or
amused by my = impressions=20 of the first year of ownership of a 33-year-old
Ferrari. If you're = not into=20 old V12s or how well toddlers fit into the back
seat, now's the time = to=20 delete. This is the human-interest side of things,
not the technical = details,=20 sort of a payback for the help and kind words I
got in my endeavor = from=20 certain people on this alias. There's no mention of
racing or speed = or=20 ego-flattery.




After a few months to decide which = model I=20 wanted (330 GT 2+2), and a few
more months to check out some = specimens, I=20 settled on a local car advertised
in the Ferrari Market Letter. = Thanks to=20 this alias, contacts I'd made at a
local Concours, and membership in = the=20 Ferrari Club of America, I had good
advice and even hands-on help = evaluating=20 the cars. I was seduced by the
sight and sound of this one. During = the test=20 drive the steering was very
loose, and the brake pedal sank to the = floor=20 after half a minute at a stop
light. The owner agreed to fix those = problems=20 after which I'd look again. A
few more months passed. Part of my = early=20 training was that everything takes
a long time with this car except = getting=20 from point A to point B. January
30th, 1997, I visited the car at the = shop,=20 drove it around the block, bought
it, and stuck it right back in the = shop.=20

The day before, the mechanic had told me it had "noisy = valves"=20 and would
require extensive repairs to the valve train -- two to = three weeks.=20 Ten
agonizing weeks later, the car finally made it to my driveway.=20 Agonizing,
because the moment the engine was opened more problems = were=20 discovered. For
two of those weeks I thought I might need another set = of=20 heads. I was afraid
I'd bought a basket case even after taking such = care to=20 avoid it. New
valves, valve seats, valve guides, rollers, bearings = for=20 rollers,
cam-polishing, cylinder head machining. Thanks to the = previous owner=20 I had a
newly rebuilt master brake cylinder, new brake pads, and new = tie rod=20 ends.

I was worried that the car would get hung up on the = sidewalk at the=20 entrance
to my driveway. The curb is high enough that a friend's = 348tb=20 couldn't get
over it. The 330 cleared the curb and settled into the = hollow=20 between
sidewalk and driveway with the tailpipes a few centimeters = above=20 the
sidewalk. I pulled it into the garage, cranking the wheels after = the car=20 was
halfway in to account for the angled approach. The next day, I'd=20 forgotten
all about having cranked the wheels. I pulled it out = straight and=20 put on the
emergency brake so I could get out, listen, and stare = while it=20 warmed up.
That's when I noticed the body was literally a centimeter = above my=20 concrete
steps, that by blind luck I'd stopped in time to avoid = crunching it.=20 The
second major embarrassment was that I'd pulled the parking brake = so hard=20 I
couldn't get it off. After fifteen minutes of swearing and fighting = the
button on the top of the lever, I got it off, pulled into the = garage=20 again
and came out correctly. Since then I always get out of the = garage and=20 down
to the sidewalk where I can apply the brake lightly. Then I can = close=20 the
garage door and listen to the engine galloping up to a steady = state.=20 There's
a smudge on the sidewalk behind the tailpipes.

So, I = was ready=20 for the first family outing in our new car. Both kids were
installed = in their=20 carseats in the back. The 330 is big enough that the
kids' shoes = could just=20 rest on the tops of the front seats. To summarize the
lesson from the = various=20 family outings: only the driver is comfortable, and
he (always he -- = my wife=20 drove it around a parking lot once and decided that
was enough) gets = pretty=20 hot. The best day for this car is bright and cool.
If it's a warm = day, make=20 sure you have something to drink. After one
particularly hot day, my = body was=20 trembling and tingling so badly I thought
I was going to pass out. = You need=20 your strength because it's heavy manual
steering and a heavy = hydraulic=20 clutch. Be careful on wet days, too. Perhaps
it was just me getting = used to=20 the clutch, but on a damp day there was a lot
of fishtailing around=20 town.

Most of the summer it was me driving alone, contributing = more than=20 my fair
share of greenhouse gases to the atmosphere. I live about two = miles=20 from
work, which isn't enough for the car to warm up, so I go the=20 opposite
direction and make a scenic tour of it. By the time the car = is warm=20 and I'm
in the groove, I have to park it. But that morning drive was = a=20 pleasant
ritual.

In the course of putting on about 5000 km = (all the=20 gauges are in Italian and
metric!), I learned more repairs were = needed. After=20 a couple of
disappointing days of the car shutting off quietly at=20 inconvenient times, I
had it trucked back to the shop for a new = electric fuel=20 pump. Apparently the
primary mechanical pump had long since given up, = and the=20 electric one,
intended mainly to build up fuel pressure for starting = the=20 engine, was also
going bad. From those incidents I learned that the = parking=20 brake is not a
substitute for power-assisted brakes -- kill that = daydream=20 immediately. This
car is heavy. The parking brake is relatively tiny = and can=20 only slow you
when you're hardly moving to begin with. I also = discovered=20 (perhaps this was
when the mechanical fuel pump was still barely = working)=20 that the car would
stall after too much time in slow traffic. On my = morning=20 tour I learned to
avoid the predictable rush hour traffic jams. New = pumps may=20 fix the
stalling, but the heavy clutch is still no fun in stop-and-go = traffic.

The steering was still a bit loose. It's characteristic = of old=20 cars, I was
told, but in pursuing it I found out the front suspension = was in=20 pretty bad
shape. The alignment shop said it couldn't be aligned and = I really=20 shouldn't
be driving it!

The car sometimes wouldn't start. I = thought=20 it was a matter of learning how
many times to depress the accelerator = after=20 the electric fuel pump stopped
clicking (six times on a cold motor = seems to=20 work best, and turn that key
immediately after the sixth time or = you'll get=20 to do it again). However,
sometimes I couldn't get a click out of the = starter. One day a friend
graciously volunteered a photo shoot during = his=20 lunch hour. After a couple
of shots I tried to move the car but it = wouldn't=20 start! He finished the roll
of film, we tried again, and it started. = It was=20 unpredictable. Carlo says
the solenoid should be = rebuilt.

Given all of=20 the above, it's seems appropriate that on my first anniversary
of = purchasing=20 a Ferrari, I was allowed to visit it in the shop  while = the
suspension,=20 starter, and various other mechanical glitches were being fixed.
It's = been=20 there since mid-September, partly for my convenience, partly
because=20 everything takes time with this car. As the weather gets
occasionally = nicer,=20 I'm starting to long for my morning drive in the other
direction. I'm = hoping=20 that this year I will be able to rely on it more. It
only stranded me = once,=20 on a nice day when I wasn't in a hurry, but I could
do without the = anxiety,=20 especially if the family is along for the ride.

With all of the = problems,=20 why do I keep it? I can hardly wait to hear it
again. The exhaust = note at=20 5000 rpm is my drug of choice, and the windows
are always down. I = like the=20 way it looks. There's something deeply
satisfying about the idea of a = hand-built car. To top it off, I had the
thrill of visiting the = factory last=20 October. My pre-purchase education about
company history paid off = nicely. I=20 could recognize almost everything I saw.
Even though I don't = "turn=20 wrenches" myself, I feel as though I know a lot
about this=20 car.

Of course, I've left out a lot, and some details I'd rather = keep to=20 myself
(this is a HOBBY, not an investment!). But I welcome questions = or=20 comments.

Since I didn't talk much about how it actually looks, = here's a=20 reward for
those who made it this far. Enjoy!

http://users.tss.net/fca= nwr/gallery.htm
Look=20 for "Bob and Suzanne's 330 GT 2+2. s/n 8095" ------=_NextPart_000_00DD_01BD38CE.3D29A600-- From cak Sun Feb 15 10:05:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA00929; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:05:09 -0800 Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:05:09 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199802151805.KAA00929@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: Kelly.LaVelle@woodside.com.au, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Potential new list member with 330 Yes, I know Bob - we had many discussions about 330s when he started looking, and I helped him check out a couple of cars at Ferrari of Los Gatos. I'll add him to the list. I haven't seen anyone comment on Edvar van Dallen's suggestions for new members ... how 'bout it, folks? From cak Sun Feb 15 10:52:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01126; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:52:03 -0800 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA226656 for ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:51:29 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id UAA01195 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:51:43 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199802151851.UAA01195@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Re: Series III headlight rims needed for 250 GTE Restoration To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:51:42 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Last nite I dug out the 4th Q 1987 Prancing Horse that has Alan Boes GTE > article. The odd batch of taillight lenses that were used on our car had an > amber lens over a red lens, with a reflector at the bottom. Standard > Series III lenses were red on top with a clear backup section and a small > reflector at the bottom; I believe that the both the turnsignal and brake > sections were red but can't tell from the picture in the article. The articles don't usually go very deep into the subject; first of all they always seem to forget that Ferrari (like any manufacturer) had two major markets to take care of. So both amber lenses (what I concider standard as they were intended for the home marklet) and red lenses (US-market) must have been offered at all times and in all tail light versions. And about the nose job, Bob; Don't change it unless you are absolutely sure you're going into the right direction. Standard s.3 nose might look strange on the car if you don't have proof that it was made that way. If it seems to be original and used s.2 rims, then it might be the way to go. And make documents of all items that guide your opinion to the way it is going. Someone might after 50 years make other conclusions, in case he can go through all material that is available at the time - including what a previous owner restroring the car has discovered. I never realized that looking for such details in pictures might be worth while... From cak Sun Feb 15 13:28:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA01517; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:28:46 -0800 Received: from localhost by verdi.engr.utk.edu with SMTP (SMI-8.6/2.8s-UTK.UTCC) id VAA09352; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:27:01 GMT Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:27:01 -0500 (EST) From: Erik Nielsen To: vintage ferrari Subject: Re: Potential new list member with 330 In-Reply-To: <199802151805.KAA00929@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i'll second the nomination of gerald and carol roush. it's a no brainer as far as i'm concerned. erik 365 gt4 2+2 > > I haven't seen anyone comment on Edvar van Dallen's suggestions for > new members ... how 'bout it, folks? > From cak Sun Feb 15 15:23:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA01834; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 15:23:40 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd34-111.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.214.111]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA25662; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 15:23:02 -0800 (PST) From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Chris Kantarjiev" , , Subject: Re: Potential new list member with 330 Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 17:17:03 -0600 Message-ID: <01bd3a67$d3ae4d20$6fd6aec7@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01BD3A35.8913DD20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BD3A35.8913DD20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've seen Bert de Boer's participation on the other list and he is = knowledgable about and mostly interested in the older cars. Gerald = Roush's reputation is already well-known. I second both nominations. Regards, =20 Bryan -----Original Message----- From: Chris Kantarjiev To: Kelly.LaVelle@woodside.com.au ; = ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Date: Sunday, February 15, 1998 12:06 PM Subject: Re: Potential new list member with 330 =20 =20 I haven't seen anyone comment on Edvar van Dallen's suggestions for new members ... how 'bout it, folks? ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BD3A35.8913DD20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've seen Bert de Boer's = participation on the=20 other list and he is knowledgable about and mostly interested in the = older=20 cars.  Gerald Roush's reputation is already well-known.  I = second both=20 nominations.
Regards,  =
Bryan
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Chris Kantarjiev <cak@dimebank.com>
To: = Kelly.LaVelle@woodside.com.= au=20 <Kelly.LaVelle@woodside.com.= au>;=20 ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com= =20 <ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com= >
Date:=20 Sunday, February 15, 1998 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: = Potential new=20 list member with 330


I haven't seen anyone comment = on=20 Edvar van Dallen's suggestions for
new members ... how 'bout it,=20 folks? 
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BD3A35.8913DD20-- From cak Sun Feb 15 15:58:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA01910; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 15:58:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199802152358.PAA01910@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Received: (qmail 22798 invoked by uid 70); 15 Feb 1998 23:56:00 -0000 Received: from ppp-207-149-218-137.emeraldnet.net (HELO schumacher) (207.149.218.137) by mail.emeraldnet.net with SMTP; 15 Feb 1998 23:56:00 -0000 From: "Ryan Snodgrass" To: "Chris Kanterjiev" Cc: Subject: RE: Potential new list member with 330 Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 15:56:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01BD3A2A.567E5800" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal In-Reply-To: <01bd3a67$d3ae4d20$6fd6aec7@none.compuserve.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BD3A2A.567E5800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I also second the nomination on Gerald and Carol Roush, they both have an incredible knowledge on Ferrari and I look forward to hearing their comments! Ryan ----Original Message----- From: Chris Kantarjiev To: Kelly.LaVelle@woodside.com.au ; ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Date: Sunday, February 15, 1998 12:06 PM Subject: Re: Potential new list member with 330 I haven't seen anyone comment on Edvar van Dallen's suggestions for new members ... how 'bout it, folks? ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BD3A2A.567E5800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I also second the nomination on Gerald and Carol Roush, they = both have an=20 incredible knowledge on Ferrari and I look forward to hearing their=20 comments!
Ryan
----Original=20 Message-----
From: Chris Kantarjiev <cak@dimebank.com>
To: = Kelly.LaVelle@woodside.com.= au=20 <Kelly.LaVelle@woodside.com.= au>;=20 ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com= =20 <ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com= >
Date:=20 Sunday, February 15, 1998 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: = Potential=20 new list member with 330


I haven't seen anyone = comment=20 on Edvar van Dallen's suggestions for
new members ... how = 'bout it,=20 folks? 
------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BD3A2A.567E5800-- From cak Mon Feb 16 06:02:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00321; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 06:02:05 -0800 From: GT40MIRAGE@aol.com Received: from GT40MIRAGE@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv12/Dec1997) id 4ILFa04354 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:01:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5b378d13.34e846bd@aol.com> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:01:31 EST To: ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Fwd: additional pf coupe.. Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_887637691_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 61 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_887637691_boundary Content-ID: <0_887637691@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_887637691_boundary Content-ID: <0_887637691@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: GT40MIRAGE@aol.com Return-path: To: kpietila@cc.hut.fi Subject: additional pf coupe.. Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:00:21 EST Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit 1241 blue no interior engine is is symbolic's showroom, car in maryland car is destine to be a donor drum brakes still intact 400mm wheels ts --part0_887637691_boundary-- From cak Mon Feb 16 08:40:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA00696; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:40:23 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin53.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id LAA29153 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:39:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:39:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <980216113950_743312158@mrin53> To: GT40MIRAGE@aol.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Fwd: additional pf coupe.. Why is the car going to be a donor? For what? Harold Pace From cak Tue Feb 17 10:44:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01053; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:44:47 -0800 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p51.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.51]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09086 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:44:09 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34E9DA37.51411BFB@worldonline.nl> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:43:03 +0100 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: Research Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by triton.worldonline.nl id TAA09086 Hi, I visited the site of Pirro today and saw a new question in the 'Question= and Answer' section. I decided to mail it to the list, especially for those who reall= y like doing some research. I couldn't find the answers (yet), but maybe someone else = can ........ I'm very interested in the answers, so if one of you finds some interesti= ng information, please let me know.=20 ********* Q003: from Mark Ketcham, California I am helping research the 1965 Sebring race. Any help in identifying the = cars by chassis number and owner and entrant, would be greatly appreciated. Backg= round: Sebring 1965: Enzo was in a snit. He had resigned from the CSI over the n= on homologation of the LM and he was really mad about having to run against = seven liter Fords and Chaparrals. All the Ferrari entries were made by FORA (Ferrari = Owners Racing Association) so it is really impossible to tell which cars were fa= ctory cars and which were NART etc. A study of the assigned drivers may indicate whi= ch FORA cars were really SEFAC. Race Entrants: #26 330P Grossman/Hudson, FORA/Scuderia Bear probably NART (Sc Bear was= a Grossman/Hugus deal) #27 330P Fulp/McCluskey/Kolb, FORA/Fulp (NART?) #29 250LM 6047 Hansgen/Donohue, Mecom Racing #30 275P 0820 G. Hill/Rodriguez, FORA/Mecom Racing (SEFAC) #31 250LM 5897 Piper/Maggs, David Piper Autoracing #32 275P O=82Brien/Hugus, FORA/Ed Hugus #33 275P Maglioli/Baghetti, FORA/Kleiner Racing (SEFAC) #35 GTO 3757 Clarke/Scott/Lund, Peter Clarke #81 275P Mairesse/Bianchi, FORA/Fong (SEFAC?) As you will note, there were six P cars and the only one identified, so f= ar, by serial is #30 (0820). The Grossman/Hudson #26 was possibly 0810, but I am= not even sure of that. Thanks in advance. Contact me at: mketch@thegrid.net ********* Q002: from Keith G. Bluemel, London 166 Inter #057S which is a Bertone Cabrio, that apparently has been in st= orage in germany about 30 years, in some sources it is a 166 Touring Berlinetta. W= ho owns the car ? ********* Q001: from Kare M. A. Pietila, Helsinki A friend of mine asked me about a 1959 Rhd 250 GT PF Coupe raced by Tony = Oxley and David McKay in Ausralia...? All I could say was that Rhd Coupes are very = rare. On the other hand Australians are very handy in converting cars from Lhd to Rhd.. Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 =20 7608 NA Almelo =20 The Netherlands =20 Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen From cak Sun Feb 22 21:29:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA02572; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:29:30 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin53.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id AAA18154 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:28:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:28:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <980223002819_1800526667@mrin53> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Boano #0633? Anyone out there (Edvar?) who might know the whereabouts of my old 1956 250GT Boano #0633? I owned it circa 1979, and traded it off for a 330. Just curious. PS: The Tony Oxley 250GT Pf coupe (rhd) is still owned by the Oxley family in Australia. Harold Pace From cak Mon Feb 23 02:53:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id CAA03289; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 02:53:51 -0800 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p98.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.98]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA07017; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:53:07 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34F1549D.4B04586D@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:51:09 +0100 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PaceCars@aol.com CC: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: Re: Boano #0633? References: <980223002819_1800526667@mrin53> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Take a look at the Pirro-site. There is some info about your car, including a picture. I've attached the picture in my next mail (only to you, not to the list) and below I'll show you all the info I found about your car. Info from Pirro-site : 0633GT 56 - 62nd 250 GT Boano Low Roof Coupe, red/black vinyl 77 - ready for detailing 612-929-3366 MN .. - Bitsa car ??? 89/8 - European Auto Sales MM96 - Bozano-Bozano #329 "X 633" Other info : UK Register The car was also owned by Carl R. Larsen (USA), who also owned a 330 GTC, #9125. "Mag het een Ferrari zijn" (May it be a Ferrari) by Rob de la Rive Box Once sold by Rob de la Rive Box from Switzerland. Marvin Register May 1972 for sale at $ 2950 at phone 313-543-2495. Red/Natural. June 1989 still for sale at European Auto Sales, phone 714-642-0054 August 1989 for sale in Virginia, USA (phone 804-296-2335) for $ 85000. The car was INCOMPLETE ; no engine, no transmission, no rear susp. etc. Telaio MM96, Bozano-Bozano, #329, plate X 633 (MC), Red with Tan interior. That's all........ Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen From cak Mon Feb 23 08:10:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA00629; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:10:11 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin51.mx.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id LAA18755 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:09:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:09:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <980223110937_998153859@mrin51.mx> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: 330 2+2#8705? I promise this is the last time I will ask for help with a chassis number! After the great help I got with my old Boano #0633, I wonder what info is out there on my current 330 2+2 #8705. Previous owner was Robert McCrea in California. Thanks, Harold Pace From cak Mon Feb 23 10:27:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01137; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:27:56 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust166.tnt5.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.44.166]) by denmark.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA12036; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:27:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34F1E9C0.4D29@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:27:28 -0800 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PaceCars@aol.com CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 330 2+2#8705? References: <980223110937_998153859@mrin51.mx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by denmark.it.earthlink.net id KAA12036 330 GT 2+2 S/N 8705: Identified in PF records as a 330 GT 2+2 Series II. Imported new into the USA by Luigi Chinetti Motors, Greenwich, CT.=20 Ferrari factory invoice N=B0 1376/66. Offered 1977 at 503/664-4347 (OR). Maroon with tan interior. Air, p/w, Borranis. (SFExaminer 19 Jun 1977). Offered 1988 by Lyle Tanner Enterprises, Carson, CA. Black with red interior. (FML 1315). Offered 1990 by Benny Borsakian, 818/846-7276 (CA). Red with black interior. (LATimes 24 Jun 1990). Offered 1990 by Big Red Sports/Imports, Norman, OK. Black with red interior. 60,000 miles. (FML 1526). Offered 1993 by by Dobbin McRea, Long Lake, MN. Black with red interior. Recent paint. 65,000 miles. (FML 1806). Owned 1993 Doug Karron, Golden Valley, MN per phone call Apr 1993.=20 Purchased from McCrea. Owned 1994 Harold Pace, Irving, TX per fax 14 Nov 1994. Recently acquired via trade. Titled as 1968, he was seeking proof that it was 1966. Sent him copies of LCM correspondence on the car. Offered 1996 by Pace. Black with red interior. Air, p/w and wire wheels. Restored 1989. Three shows this year, three 2nd places. (FCA Sep 1996).=20 Offered again 1997. (FML 2214). PaceCars@aol.com wrote: >=20 > I promise this is the last time I will ask for help with a chassis numb= er! > After the great help I got with my old Boano #0633, I wonder what info = is out > there on my current 330 2+2 #8705. Previous owner was Robert McCrea in > California. > Thanks, > Harold Pace From cak Mon Feb 23 11:39:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01442; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:39:08 -0800 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p73.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.73]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA06009; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:35:29 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34F1CEEA.B7039099@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:32:58 +0100 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net, PaceCars@aol.com CC: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: Re: 330 2+2#8705? References: <980223110937_998153859@mrin51.mx> <34F1E9C0.4D29@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Whow ! Gerald Roush really has MUCH info about cars ! There is only one (small) thing I can add, and that is the fact that Lyle Tanner Enterprises advertised the car as "1966, Black/Red, Air, P/W, Wire Wheels" and that the price was $ 56000. Greetings, Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen From cak Tue Feb 24 01:18:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id BAA01997; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 01:18:18 -0800 Received: from nnsa.eds.com (nnsa2.eds.com [192.85.154.30]) by ns1.eds.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA22050 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 04:17:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.nl.eds.com ([204.104.106.251]) by nnsa.eds.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA22699 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 04:17:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.122.211.153] by mail.nl.eds.com with SMTP (1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA01553; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:12:05 +0100 Received: by NL474528.nl.eds.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BD410D.C906FAA0@NL474528.nl.eds.com>; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:20:09 +0100 Message-Id: <01BD410D.C906FAA0@NL474528.nl.eds.com> From: Bert de Boer To: "'ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com'" Subject: New member Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:20:08 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello everybody, First I want to thank Chris for the invitation to join this list. Most = of you will know me from the Ferrari-mailing list but for those who = doesn't. My name is Bert de Boer 36 years old and living in Holland (Europe). My = main interest is the Ferrari 340 America (and of course the 275S). I = started 3 years ago trying to find out the history of the cars, 23 + 2 = produced. For my investigation I try to find anything that has to do = with these cars like building sheets, photo's, race history, owners etc. = I'm mostly interested in the early years lets say 1950 till 1955. During = my investigation I've had contact with lots of owners and some of them I = met. I've made a ride in 0114A, a Touring barchetta, when I visited the = owner of that car. I also got a lot help from people that are very well = known in the Ferrari vintage world. Besides the interest in the 340 America I'm collecting photo's from all = different kind of Ferrari's I've seen and photo's from old and rare = Ferarri's that people would send me when they visited events. Tommorow I will visit Modena Motorsport in Germany. They have a large = collcetion of Ferrari's for sale including some old Gt-cars and = formula-1 cars. They also do a lot work at cars so I'm looking forward. = I will let you know what I've seen there. Sincerely, Bert de Boer fer340am@wxs.nl From cak Tue Feb 24 19:52:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA03381; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:52:38 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd37-197.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.217.197]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA11793; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:51:59 -0800 (PST) From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Bert de Boer" , Subject: Re: New member Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:24:25 -0600 Message-ID: <01bd419d$040be040$3799aec7@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01BD416A.B9717040" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BD416A.B9717040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bert: did you ever get the picture of Steve Tillack's 340 America (Touring = berlinetta) that one of the other list member's had taken? Kare and I = decided that it was most likely 0122A or 0126A. I think these both = started as 275s. Regards, =20 Bryan -----Original Message----- From: Bert de Boer To: 'ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com' Date: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 9:49 AM Subject: New member =20 =20 Hello everybody, =20 First I want to thank Chris for the invitation to join this list. = Most of you will know me from the Ferrari-mailing list but for those who = doesn't. =20 My name is Bert de Boer 36 years old and living in Holland (Europe). = My main interest is the Ferrari 340 America (and of course the 275S). I = started 3 years ago trying to find out the history of the cars, 23 + 2 = produced. For my investigation I try to find anything that has to do = with these cars like building sheets, photo's, race history, owners etc. = I'm mostly interested in the early years lets say 1950 till 1955. During = my investigation I've had contact with lots of owners and some of them I = met. I've made a ride in 0114A, a Touring barchetta, when I visited the = owner of that car. I also got a lot help from people that are very well = known in the Ferrari vintage world. =20 Besides the interest in the 340 America I'm collecting photo's from = all different kind of Ferrari's I've seen and photo's from old and rare = Ferarri's that people would send me when they visited events. =20 Tommorow I will visit Modena Motorsport in Germany. They have a = large collcetion of Ferrari's for sale including some old Gt-cars and = formula-1 cars. They also do a lot work at cars so I'm looking forward. = I will let you know what I've seen there. =20 Sincerely, =20 Bert de Boer fer340am@wxs.nl ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BD416A.B9717040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bert:
 
did you ever get the picture of Steve Tillack's 340 = America=20 (Touring berlinetta) that one of the other list member's had = taken?  Kare=20 and I decided that it was most likely 0122A or 0126A.  I think = these both=20 started as 275s.
 
Regards,  =
Bryan
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Bert de Boer <Bert.boerde@nl.eds.com>
= To:=20 'ferrari-vintage@dimebank.= com'=20 <ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com= >
Date:=20 Tuesday, February 24, 1998 9:49 AM
Subject: New=20 member

Hello everybody,

First I want to = thank=20 Chris for the invitation to join this list. Most of you will know me = from=20 the Ferrari-mailing list but for those who doesn't.

My name = is Bert=20 de Boer 36 years old and living in Holland (Europe). My main = interest is the=20 Ferrari 340 America (and of course the 275S). I started 3 years ago = trying=20 to find out the history of the cars, 23 + 2 produced. For my = investigation I=20 try to find anything that has to do with these cars like building = sheets,=20 photo's, race history, owners etc. I'm mostly interested in the = early years=20 lets say 1950 till 1955. During my investigation I've had contact = with lots=20 of owners and some of them I met. I've made a ride in 0114A, a = Touring=20 barchetta, when I visited the owner of that car. I also got a lot = help from=20 people that are very well known in the Ferrari vintage = world.

Besides=20 the interest in the 340 America I'm collecting photo's from all = different=20 kind of Ferrari's I've seen and photo's from old and rare Ferarri's = that=20 people would send me when they visited events.

Tommorow I = will visit=20 Modena Motorsport in Germany. They have a large collcetion of = Ferrari's for=20 sale including some old Gt-cars and formula-1 cars. They also do a = lot work=20 at cars so I'm looking forward. I will let you know what I've seen=20 there.

Sincerely,

Bert de Boer
fer340am@wxs.nl ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BD416A.B9717040-- From cak Wed Feb 25 16:06:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA02602; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:06:27 -0800 Received: by INET-04-IMC with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:05:55 -0800 Message-ID: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D8100435C295@red-msg-50.dns.microsoft.com> From: Bob Grudem To: "'ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com'" Subject: Nomination for new member Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:05:44 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) I nominate Dan Case (wdancase@aol.com) for the list. I know him personally, and he has been a great help to me from the very beginning with Ferraris. He has had a gold 330 GT 2+2 for about 10 years, has a deep knowledge of that car and British cars (especially Jaguars). It was his car I saw that convinced me I wanted a 330. Last year he was a judge at the Port Gardner Bay Concours. All the valve-train work I had Carlo (Alfa of Tacoma) do for me, Dan did by himself (except the machinework) on his car. He often attends the local (Seattle, WA, USA) area FCA events. He has subtly and repeatedly advised me on how I could get to know my car better (and therefore appreciate it more) if only I did a few basic things myself, such as changing the oil, checking the plugs, etc., and has given the odd demonstration (how many people bring torque wrenches when they're invited to dinner?). I'm still eagerly anticipating the demo of using my new lead mallet to remove a wire wheel. Previous owners could have used such instruction, as there are a number of bent spokes. I'll let it stand at that. Any further personal information should come directly from him. Would someone second the nomination? Thanks From cak Wed Feb 25 22:08:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA03669; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:08:57 -0800 Received: from blockton ([12.64.134.129]) by mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA23541 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 06:08:23 +0000 Message-ID: <34F505FB.2FF22C34@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:04:43 -0800 From: David Booth Reply-To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vintage Ferrari List Subject: Dan Case seconded X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll gladly second the nomination of Dan Case to the VF list. Anyone who's suggested ways of getting to know one's vintage Ferrari better belongs on this group. IMHO, half the fun of these cars is the elegant simplicity of their engineering. Dave Booth From cak Thu Feb 26 07:00:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA00446; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 07:00:30 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin39.mx.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id JAA01920; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:59:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:59:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <980226095951_614608662@mrin39.mx> To: bobgru@microsoft.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Nomination for new member Dan Case sounds like a good addition. How can a guy with a 330 2+2 not be a good guy? Harold Pace 330 2+2 From cak Thu Feb 26 09:38:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA00807; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:38:29 -0800 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p16.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.16]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13633 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:37:47 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34F5A788.2B8E2BD8@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:34:00 +0100 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: European Racing Pictures (1960s) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Harald Mergard (the Pirro-site) is working on a gallery about european races from the 60s. If you know persons (yourself?) who have such pictures and who are willing to lend / sell these to Mergard, please mail him : h.mergard@dialup.nacamar.de Thanks in advance, Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen From cak Thu Feb 26 10:18:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA00956; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:18:57 -0800 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:18:57 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199802261818.KAA00956@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: PaceCars@aol.com, bobgru@microsoft.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Nomination for new member Agreed. I'll add him to the list and send him a note. From cak Thu Feb 26 19:15:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA03099; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:15:17 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd52-103.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.232.103]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA11124; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:14:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Bryan Cashion" To: , "Vintage Ferrari List" Subject: Re: Dan Case seconded Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:12:32 -0600 Message-ID: <01bd432d$8b32e640$67e8aec7@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_012D_01BD42FB.40987640" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_012D_01BD42FB.40987640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave: can we discuss the 'simplicity' of 6 2-barrel carbs? 8-) Seriously, any thoughts that anyone has on how to test the Marelli = electronic ignition amplifier (conventional points ignition) would be = appreciated. I CAN read a voltammeter. Regards, =20 Bryan -----Original Message----- From: David Booth To: Vintage Ferrari List Date: Thursday, February 26, 1998 8:04 AM Subject: Dan Case seconded =20 =20 IMHO, half the fun of these cars is the elegant simplicity of their engineering. =20 Dave Booth ------=_NextPart_000_012D_01BD42FB.40987640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dave:
 
can we discuss the 'simplicity' of 6 2-barrel=20 carbs?    8-)
 
Seriously, any thoughts that anyone has on how to = test the=20 Marelli electronic ignition amplifier (conventional points ignition) = would be=20 appreciated.  I CAN read a voltammeter.
 
Regards,  =
Bryan
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 David Booth <Boothcrafters@worldnet.att= .net>
To:=20 Vintage Ferrari List <ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com= >
Date:=20 Thursday, February 26, 1998 8:04 AM
Subject: Dan Case=20 seconded

IMHO, half the fun of these cars is the = elegant
simplicity of their engineering.

Dave=20 Booth ------=_NextPart_000_012D_01BD42FB.40987640-- From cak Fri Feb 27 11:57:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01454; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:57:07 -0800 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:57:07 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199802271957.LAA01454@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Dan Case's first message It appears that he sent this only to me, not the entire list... --- >From WDanCase@aol.com Fri Feb 27 07:23:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA00530; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:23:36 -0800 Received: from WDanCase@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id 4VVWa09340 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:22:58 -0500 (EST) From: WDanCase Message-ID: <1f3b1235.34f6da54@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:22:58 EST To: cak Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: welcome to the vintage Ferrari list Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 60 Status: RO Hello old V-12 fans! I want to thank Bob Grudem for nominating me to the V-12 list, and to Chris for adding me in. I have 330GT 2+2 s/n 8855, a 1966 series II version. I bought this beast in 1988, and to say I was excited was true understatement. I was a hopeless Jaguar nut at the time, and had lots of hours of experience with rebuilding and restoring E-types and a lovely XJ6 coupe with a bipolar personality disorder. Road & Track published a used car classic article in about 1985 (I still have the article) on buying used Ferrari V-12's. Now the Jaguars were trading material for my dream V-12. I just had to have one. Not long after that, Grand Prix Motors in Seattle advertised the car that was to later become mine. I went to see it, and fell in love. It was gold, with deep red leather, with the lovely aroma of a well cared for interior. It wore the solid alloy Campagnola wheels, which I thought were a nice relief from the Borranis. I was ready to get out of the spoke changing/cleaning business. The asking price was about $22,000, which seemed ok at the time. The salesman said an offer of $20,000 would take it. But before I could sell my E-type roadster, someone else bought "my V-12." A year later, the car turned up at a consignment lot on Stewart Street. An ad with a picture showed up in Auto Trader. Price: $29,500. Apparently the short-term owner had to have the diff rebuilt, and the glow was gone for him. He wanted a 308 GTS. So I raced down to the car lot, and actually got a test drive. The car generated lots of smoke at idle, but wasn't that normal? The miles showed about 50,000, and she looked as fetching as I remembered. The test drive was incredible. We went about 20 miles on the freeway, and the feel of the heavy gearbox, stiff clutch and turbine-like engine were incredible - totally unlike the E-type. Anyway, I put the E-type up for sale again, and guess what? Somebody else grabbed the Ferrari. A year later I got a phone call on my birthday from my friend Doug. There was a gold Ferrari for sale in the Seattle Times. Asking price: $38,000. It was 1988 now, Ferraris were becoming a hot commodity! I called the number, verified it was the same car, and agreed to meet the owner. This time I had a plan. I convinced my wife we would refinance the house, and I would sell the E-type at my own pace. The owner apparently had some troubles in his business, and needed the money. So we negotiated the price down a few thousand, I gave him a deposit, and my bank officer sped the loan through. The gold V-12 was mine! Anyway, the adventures began here, and I'd be happy to share my experiences with the group. Please send along the archive files so I can see what everybody is interested in. Thanks again, Dan Case From cak Fri Feb 27 11:58:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01461; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:58:18 -0800 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:58:18 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199802271958.LAA01461@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: WDanCase@aol.com Subject: Re: welcome to the vintage Ferrari list Cc: ferrari-vintage Dan, Welcome - that's a great story. I'll send the archives along under cover. We have some serial number collectors on the list, and a lot of folks that try to do their own maintenance. If you are willing, I think there are a couple of 330 owners on the list who would love to hear about your valve train work. From cak Sat Feb 28 08:02:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA00653; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 08:01:58 -0800 Received: from WDanCase@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id CWUDa09367; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:00:49 -0500 (EST) From: WDanCase Message-ID: <78ab2821.34f834b3@aol.com> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:00:49 EST To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net, ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: welcome to the List Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Hey, I think a guy that restores a Jensen-Healey for his wife has got to have a lot of character. My first wife (the one that let me refi the house to buy the 330) had a friend that had a beaten-up '72 J-H sitting dead in her yard. I couldn't resist the challenge, and $200 later it was being dragged home. I put a battery in it, added fuel and fluids, banged on the fuel pump and it started. A complete mouse colony flew out the tailpipe. I was howling with laughter. The thing sat idling in the driveway for 20 minutes or so, then Bang! the timing belt snapped, and she stopped dead. Now I was the dummy with a dead '72 J-H in my yard. It was a very depressing moment. I did a leakdown test to see how bad it was. It was bad. Most valves leaked. So I let it sit for a week while I developed a plan. I eventually pulled the head, straigtened the bent valves, put in new gaskets and re-set the valve clearances, put it all back together. The silly thing ran great and I really had a lot of fun with it. It was my training project for doing the major service and belt change on the 308GTSi I eventually swapped the E-type roadster for. But that's another story that will eventually sort of lead back to the 330. Anyway, it's great to be on this list. Talk to you soon, Dan Case 1966 330GT 8855 1970 Porsche 911E (daily driver) 1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer beast of burden (there's a web site for these things!) 1989 Mercedes-Benz 300E (wife's) 1978 BMW R80/7 (smooth) 1975 Laverda 750SF (now that's Italian) 1971 Honda CB450K4 DOHC (I can't help myself) From cak Sat Feb 28 11:00:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01036; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 10:59:59 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME ([195.121.70.152]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with SMTP id AAA70F0 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:59:24 +0100 Message-ID: <34F8DCEA.5BD6@wxs.nl> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:58:34 -0800 From: Bert de Boer Reply-To: fer340am@wxs.nl Organization: World Access X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-WXS-16 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Modena motorsport Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As promissed I would tell you whatI've seen at Modena Motorsport in Germany. It's a company that is specialised in restoring all kinds of Ferrari's but because of their very good knowledge of old Ferrari's they do most of the work at the old cars. They also offer client help when the client would race with the cars in events like the Mille Miglia. Another activity is formula-1. When people organizes events they can hire formule-1 cars from people and Modena Motorsport takes car of transport and technical support at the track. When I arrived two trucks with 4 formula-1 cars just were ready to leave for an events, I was to late to have a look at the cars. The cars I have seen at Moden Motorsport were: 512BB, 4 cars, one with a Konig body 288 GTO 275 GTB, one completly stripped 250 California, completly stripped 246 Dino, was getting new electric windows 250 MM, preparing for historic events 250 GT 'Bergman coupe' for sale 250 GTO, 2 replica's 250 LM, a real one 330 America 250 GT Cabriolet serie II, 2 cars 365 GTB/C, preparing for historic events a formula-1 car from Regazzoni complete in pieces for restoration and there were some cars stored for their owners: 375 MM 212 Inter 225 Sport 250 Boano 512 M 625 F1 250 SWB 246 Dino Formula-1 car 250 Tour de France and 2 Bugatti's EB110 You can imagine it was great to be there Bert de Boer From cak Sat Feb 28 11:04:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01058; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:04:23 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME ([195.121.70.152]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with SMTP id AAA72C6 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:03:50 +0100 Message-ID: <34F8DDF7.2DCF@wxs.nl> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 20:03:03 -0800 From: Bert de Boer Reply-To: fer340am@wxs.nl Organization: World Access X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-WXS-16 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Modena motorsport References: <34F8DCEA.5BD6@wxs.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bert de Boer wrote: > > As promissed I would tell you whatI've seen at Modena Motorsport in > Germany. > > It's a company that is specialised in restoring all kinds of Ferrari's > but because of their very good knowledge of old Ferrari's they do most > of the work at the old cars. They also offer client help when the client > would race with the cars in events like the Mille Miglia. Another > activity is formula-1. When people organizes events they can hire > formule-1 cars from people and Modena Motorsport takes car of transport > and technical support at the track. When I arrived two trucks with 4 > formula-1 cars just were ready to leave for an events, I was to late to > have a look at the cars. > > The cars I have seen at Moden Motorsport were: > > 512BB, 4 cars, one with a Konig body > 288 GTO > 275 GTB, one completly stripped > 250 California, completly stripped > 246 Dino, was getting new electric windows > 250 MM, preparing for historic events > 250 GT 'Bergman coupe' for sale > 250 GTO, 2 replica's > 250 LM, a real one > 330 America > 250 GT Cabriolet serie II, 2 cars > 365 GTB/C, preparing for historic events > a formula-1 car from Regazzoni complete in pieces for restoration > > and there were some cars stored for their owners: > 375 MM > 212 Inter > 225 Sport > 250 Boano > 512 M > 625 F1 > 250 SWB > 246 Dino > Formula-1 car > 250 Tour de France > and 2 Bugatti's EB110 > > You can imagine it was great to be there > > Bert de Boer From cak Sat Feb 28 12:47:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA01380; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:47:43 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd6-040.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.197.40]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA11156; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:47:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "WDanCase" , Subject: Bent valves Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:46:10 -0600 Message-ID: <01bd4489$e6e33460$c386aec7@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0127_01BD4457.9C48C460" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0127_01BD4457.9C48C460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You are a brave soul. Say more about how you did this... One of my desktop conversation pieces is a bent valve from a M-B 190 = ('new' 190, not the roadster) after the timing belt broke. I assume heat is needed at some point. Did you use a torch or something = more sophisticated? How do you ensure 'straightness'? Regards, =20 Bryan -----Original Message----- From: WDanCase =20 =20 head, straigtened the bent valves,=20 =20 Dan Case =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0127_01BD4457.9C48C460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You are a brave soul.  Say more = about how=20 you did this...
One of my = desktop=20 conversation pieces is a bent valve from a M-B 190 ('new' 190, not the = roadster)=20 after the timing belt broke.
 
I assume heat is needed at some point. Did you use a = torch or=20 something more sophisticated?  How do you ensure=20 'straightness'?
 
Regards,  =
Bryan
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 WDanCase <WDanCase@aol.com>

<= BR>head,=20 straigtened the bent valves,  

Dan Case
 
------=_NextPart_000_0127_01BD4457.9C48C460-- From cak Sat Feb 28 19:05:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA02291; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:05:08 -0800 Message-Id: <199803010305.TAA02291@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Received: (qmail 17201 invoked by uid 70); 1 Mar 1998 03:03:52 -0000 Received: from ppp-207-149-218-47.emeraldnet.net (HELO default) (207.149.218.47) by mail.emeraldnet.net with SMTP; 1 Mar 1998 03:03:52 -0000 From: "Ryan Snodgrass" To: Subject: Who is R. H. Hoyle??? Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:04:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199802271957.LAA01454@bosphorus.dimebank.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Does anyone know who Rayment H. Hoyle (or perhaps Royment or Roymeut) was? I recently acquired a piece of literature that has his name and the date 1969 written inside the cover. To me this means he probably was an enthusiast in the late 60's, early 70's. Thanks or any info! Ryan From cak Sun Mar 1 05:21:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA00231; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 05:21:01 -0800 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p79.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.79]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14043; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 14:19:35 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34F95FEF.BCE72CE3@worldonline.nl> Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 14:17:35 +0100 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ryan Snodgrass CC: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: Re: Who is R. H. Hoyle??? References: <199803010305.TAA02291@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ryan Snodgrass wrote: > > Does anyone know who Rayment H. Hoyle (or perhaps Royment or Roymeut) was? > I recently acquired a piece of literature that has his name and the date > 1969 written inside the cover. To me this means he probably was an > enthusiast in the late 60's, early 70's. Thanks or any info! > Ryan Has he something to do with Terry Hoyle Engineering ?? See : http://www.racecar.co.uk/terry_hoyle_engineering/index.html Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen From cak Sun Mar 1 07:42:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA00523; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:42:18 -0800 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p109.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.109]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18039 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:41:43 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34F980DF.DFC1C606@worldonline.nl> Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 16:38:07 +0100 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: 2301 GT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by triton.worldonline.nl id QAA18039 Hi, Here is more info about the yellow SWB which was seen at Zandvoort in 199= 6 and 1997, which also had number 2301 GT. As said before, this car was originally a = 250 Spider California. The car is owned by Guus Bierman and he uses plate 'HZ-90-ST' (NL), which= actually belongs to a 275 GTB, c/n 7459. The body is a replica, probably made by a= company in Haaksbergen, in the Netherlands. The ENGINE has number 2301 GT, but I thi= nk the number is fake, just as the body. If we want to know if the engine is the original one, we must know what h= appened with 1319 GT, a PF Coup=E9 in which the engine was reported. Who knows more ab= out this car ? Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 =20 7608 NA Almelo =20 The Netherlands =20 Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen From cak Sun Mar 1 09:19:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA00715; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:18:58 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust71.tnt5.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.44.71]) by sweden.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA15825; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 09:18:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34F9C291.6E3C@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 12:18:25 -0800 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Edvar van Daalen CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 2301 GT References: <34F980DF.DFC1C606@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by sweden.it.earthlink.net id JAA15825 Edvar van Daalen wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Here is more info about the yellow SWB which was seen at Zandvoort in 1= 996 and 1997, > which also had number 2301 GT. As said before, this car was originally = a 250 Spider > California. >=20 > The car is owned by Guus Bierman and he uses plate 'HZ-90-ST' (NL), whi= ch actually > belongs to a 275 GTB, c/n 7459. The body is a replica, probably made by= a company in > Haaksbergen, in the Netherlands. The ENGINE has number 2301 GT, but I t= hink the > number is fake, just as the body. >=20 > If we want to know if the engine is the original one, we must know what= happened with > 1319 GT, a PF Coup=E9 in which the engine was reported. Who knows more = about this car ? >=20 > Edvar >=20 > -- > "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari > -- >=20 > Edvar van Daalen > Den Bramel 20 > 7608 NA Almelo > The Netherlands >=20 > Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 > Email : daalen@worldonline.nl > Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen RE: S/N 2301. First of all, to help verify if the engine now in the car claiming to be 2301 is the original, check the "numero interno" or block number on the engine. According to Stan Nowak's book on the Spyder Californias this should be 604 F. Now it gets confusing. My records disagree with what Stan Nowak has in his book about engine S/N 2301. I have this engine as being in chassis S/N 3405 GT, a "special GTO-like style Ferrari built in 1962" and owned in the early 1980's by Pierre de Siebenthal in Switzerland. Back in 1975 I was told that the engine in chassis S/N 1319 GT was S/N 2461 GT. However, this same engine (2461 GT) is also supposedly in chassis S/N 0977 GT, the Drogo bodied car owned by Hugh Ruthven II in Barrington, IL, who has had the car since 1973! The key to all of this is in the "numero interno" on these engines.=20 Chassis number stampings on blocks are quite easy to counterfeit/change. Internal numbers are not. From cak Sun Mar 1 13:26:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA01283; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:26:46 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd49-059.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.229.59]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA24431; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:25:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:25:25 -0600 Message-ID: <01BD4526.41CA6960.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion Reply-To: "cashion@sprynet.com" To: "'Edvar van Daalen'" , Ferrari Vintage List Subject: RE: 2301 GT Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 14:45:11 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 45 TEXT We've discussed and I think most list members do not support the idea of re-bodying one Ferrari model to another model. Re-bodying a 250 Spider California is one of the worst cases of this, IMO. I love the 250 SWB, but this is ridiculous. Edvar, apologies for expressing my frustration. Regards, Bryan On Sunday, March 01, 1998 9:38 AM, Edvar van Daalen [SMTP:daalen@worldonline.nl] wrote: > Hi, > > Here is more info about the yellow SWB which was seen at Zandvoort in 1996 and 1997, > which also had number 2301 GT. As said before, this car was originally a 250 Spider > California. > > The car is owned by Guus Bierman and he uses plate 'HZ-90-ST' (NL), which actually > belongs to a 275 GTB, c/n 7459. The body is a replica, probably made by a company in > Haaksbergen, in the Netherlands. The ENGINE has number 2301 GT, but I think the > number is fake, just as the body. > > If we want to know if the engine is the original one, we must know what happened with > 1319 GT, a PF Coupé in which the engine was reported. Who knows more about this car ? > > Edvar > > -- > "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari > -- > > Edvar van Daalen > Den Bramel 20 > 7608 NA Almelo > The Netherlands > > Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 > Email : daalen@worldonline.nl > Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen From cak Sun Mar 1 14:43:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA01472; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 14:43:01 -0800 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA68862 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:45:07 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id XAA11113 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:45:08 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199803012145.XAA11113@happi.hut.fi> Subject: RE: 2301 GT To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:45:07 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > We've discussed and I think most list members do not support the idea of > re-bodying one Ferrari model to another model. Re-bodying a 250 Spider > California is one of the worst cases of this, IMO. I love the 250 SWB, but > this is ridiculous. Edvar, apologies for expressing my frustration. It's not all about rebodying after all: Bugatti history if not else has proved us that if factory failed to produce a car with a certain number, the after- market will succeed all the way better by producing several... Same thing for cars destroyed or _believed_ to have been lost forever... (A member of Helsinki City Council revealing it all in April Playboy still astonishes me more than any ferrari ever did...) From cak Sun Mar 1 19:38:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA02577; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:38:18 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin39.mx.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id WAA18605; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:37:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:37:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <980301223733_-1526807881@mrin39.mx> To: cashion@sprynet.com, daalen@worldonline.nl, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Rebodied Ferraris I agree with Brian Cashion that Ferraris should not be rebodied into something they were not with new bodywork (like the California into "SWB"). It may be that someone owned a chassis number to a destroyed California and built a new car around it. Another situation involves period bodywork that has been removed from its original chassis and put on another chassis. Like the Drogo body that was built on a GTO circa 1965. It was later restored to GTO body and the Drogo body put on a (I think) GTE chassis. These bodies should be preserved. If the GTE was rusty enough (or a rollover) I might go along with this. Anyone else have any feeling on this? Harold Pace From cak Mon Mar 2 02:53:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id CAA03710; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 02:53:13 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust147.tnt2.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.15.147]) by sweden.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA20085 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 02:52:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34FAB9AE.650@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 05:52:46 -0800 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Rebodied Ferraris References: <980301223733_-1526807881@mrin39.mx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First of all, Harold Pace's assumption is basically correct. S/N 2301's conversion from SWB Spyder California to SWB Berlinetta was not a mere "rebody". S/N 2301 was totalled in an accident. What was left of the chassis was then used as a basis for building a fake 250 GT SWB Berlinetta. I find the use of the term rebody to be a flattering misrepresentation for what many of these cars really are. One does not "rebody" a 250 GTE into a 250 GTO or 250 Testa Rossa. In a best case scenario one takes a 250 GTE, strips it down to the bare essentials, chops up the chassis to change the wheelbase, modifies the engine, constructs a completely non-original body and interior, etc. In worse instances the cars are more a "bitsa" - just bits of one chassis grafted onto a newly built chassis; bits of motors from various cars; a gearbox from somewhere else; probably a differential from yet a third source. I one inspected one of these cars that purported to be the "real" Drogo-bodied 250 GTO S/N 3445. It had the remains of a 250 GTE chassis; a different 250 GT motor; a counterfeit 5-speed 250 GTO gearbox; a 365 GT 2+2 differential; instrumentation from a 365 GTB/4; a windshield made by Royal Doulton (no kidding) etc. etc. The only term to describe these cars is PORCHERIA. I was introduced to this word by a man at the Ferrari factory. It means "pig sty", i.e. a filthy thing. For an English term, lets call them what they are. FAKES! Building a new Ferrari out of old parts does not make it a classic old Ferrari, any more than building a new house out of old lumber makes the house an ante-bellum mansion. Gerald Roush From cak Mon Mar 2 03:03:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id DAA03737; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:03:10 -0800 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p76.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.76]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21104; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:02:33 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34FA914F.6A375FE5@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 12:00:31 +0100 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "cashion@sprynet.com" , Ferrari Vintage List Subject: Re: 2301 GT / Rebodied Ferraris References: <01BD4526.41CA6960.cashion@sprynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bryan Cashion wrote: > > We've discussed and I think most list members do not support the idea of > re-bodying one Ferrari model to another model. Re-bodying a 250 Spider > California is one of the worst cases of this, IMO. I love the 250 SWB, but > this is ridiculous. Edvar, apologies for expressing my frustration. > > Regards, > Bryan Hi, I fully agree with you and also with Gerald, but some people find money more interesting than the originality of a car. Many replicas are sold for astonishing prices and that's the main reason why people make replicas. But I also have to add that the ORIGINAL chassis 2301 GT was used for a replica 250 Spider California. Just for your memory : * The orignal chassis 2301 GT with engine 2301 GT was a Spider California. * After the crash the ENGINE went to 3405 GT, then to 1319 GT (?) and maybe it's now in the yellow (fake) SWB. The SWB has a fake body, a fake chassis and probably is engine is fake too ... * The original CHASSIS was fitted with a replica Spider California body. This car is now in Switzerland (probably). And my own opinion about the Drogo's: I don't think the Drogo bodies fit in the category 'replicas', because these (beautiful) bodies were his own design. He just used a (in that time cheap!) Ferrari chassis and a Ferrari engine ....... Regards, Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen From cak Mon Mar 2 03:03:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id DAA03738; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:03:10 -0800 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p76.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.76]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21091; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:02:28 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <34FA8FFA.162867F6@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 11:54:50 +0100 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net CC: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: Re: 2301 GT References: <34F980DF.DFC1C606@worldonline.nl> <34F9C291.6E3C@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gerald Roush wrote: > RE: S/N 2301. > > First of all, to help verify if the engine now in the car claiming to be > 2301 is the original, check the "numero interno" or block number on the > engine. According to Stan Nowak's book on the Spyder Californias this > should be 604 F. Thanks. I'll check this if I have the possibility. > Now it gets confusing. > > My records disagree with what Stan Nowak has in his book about engine > S/N 2301. I have this engine as being in chassis S/N 3405 GT, a > "special GTO-like style Ferrari built in 1962" and owned in the early > 1980's by Pierre de Siebenthal in Switzerland. > > Back in 1975 I was told that the engine in chassis S/N 1319 GT was S/N > 2461 GT. However, this same engine (2461 GT) is also supposedly in > chassis S/N 0977 GT, the Drogo bodied car owned by Hugh Ruthven II in > Barrington, IL, who has had the car since 1973! > > The key to all of this is in the "numero interno" on these engines. > Chassis number stampings on blocks are quite easy to > counterfeit/change. Internal numbers are not. In my book 'Ferrari 250 GT SWB Spider California' by Seibert and Carrieri (Cavalleria 16) they say about 2301 GT that after the crash the engine was first placed in 3405 GT and later in 1319 GT. But, this doesn't explain why engine 2461 GT was in two cars. The only thing I can add about the Drogo's is that they BOTH were owned by Siebenthal, so maybe he used one engine for two or more cars. Do you know if Siebenthal also owned 1319 GT ? On the 'normal' mailing list there is somebody who knows a lot about the Drogo's, so I'll send him a message to get more info about these two Drogo's. Greetings, Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen From cak Thu Mar 5 10:03:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA00842; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 10:03:04 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME ([195.121.70.113]) by mmp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with SMTP id AAA3666 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 19:02:09 +0100 Message-ID: <34FF66B7.50D9@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 19:01:24 -0800 From: Bert de Boer Reply-To: fer340am@wxs.nl Organization: World Access X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-WXS-16 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Ferrari 340 America #0238A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to this list I've got a picture from the 340 America #0238A. Kare thanks. This car is often called a 340 Mexico or a 340 MM which caused some confusion but the car is realy a 340 America. In 1953 the Swedish Ferrari importer Tore Bjurstroem imported a Ferrari for his client Severt Sundberg. It seams that Enzo Ferrari was willing to sell Ferrari's to Scandinavia so he informed Bjurstroem at the end of 1952 and at the beginning of 1953 twice with a fax. For some reason we don't know, Enzo Ferrari called the car a 'Mexico". That's why the car became it's knickname "the 5th Mexico". The car was driven by Sundberg at several events and in one of them Sundberg was killed. Because people were afraid that this accedent gives Ferrari a bad name the car was rebuild by Vignale as a coupe, according to Mexico specifications. So the car had a complete different body and it was given the name 340 Mille Miglia. Nothing at the car remembers at the old 340 America (or so called Mexico). Hope you enjoy this kind of information. Bert de Boer From cak Fri Mar 6 11:05:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01365; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 11:05:33 -0800 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA85854 for ; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 21:04:52 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id VAA07535 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 21:04:56 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199803061904.VAA07535@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Ferrari 340 America #0238A To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 21:04:55 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In 1953 the Swedish Ferrari importer Tore Bjurstroem imported a Ferrari > for his client Severt Sundberg. It seams that Enzo Ferrari was willing > to sell Ferrari's to Scandinavia so he informed Bjurstroem at the end of > 1952 and at the beginning of 1953 twice with a fax. For some reason we > don't know, Enzo Ferrari called the car a 'Mexico". That's why the car > became it's knickname "the 5th Mexico". The way I heard the story was as follows: 0238A was the last America built (at least the last number used...) and rumoured to have been a factory test chassis. The build sheets have this strange date "II-52", which more likely indicates February than November - to be honest I cannot say... Anyway Tore Bjurstrom is believed to have known Enzo personally and some people even said that they were closest of friends - well, how close could you get to the old man - I cannot say... As Bjurstrom had a sharklike reputation as a carsalesman who could get rid of anything on four wheels; (decent respray and sell it as a new car was his policy, they say...) Enzo is said to have sent several "difficult cases" (old war horses, test cars, outdated models... name it we play it) his way... My wife's old man met this chap at the factory in 1967... As he had nothing to do all day (they were still preparing the car) he accepted Bjurstrom's invitation to come and see the production line. He would have bought a new car immediately, had his father given him the money as the first time... > The car was driven by Sundberg at several events and in one of them > Sundberg was killed. Because people were afraid that this accedent gives > Ferrari a bad name the car was rebuild by Vignale as a coupe, according > to Mexico specifications. So the car had a complete different body and > it was given the name 340 Mille Miglia. Nothing at the car remembers at > the old 340 America (or so called Mexico). A tip of the hat for his memory - takes more guts than I've got to take a full breed Ferrari Spyder to iceraces, if you only got one arm left! PS. Bjurstrom must have had very good relations to the factory if he could get them to sell 2 brand new Testa Rossas + a TdF to some unknown chap wawing with a wallet in what was concedered as hopeless Russian territory! Another interesting thing is that Carl-Johan Askolin started his life as an orphan on the streets of Stockholm - he was fostered by Finnish General Askolin only because they needed a som to inherit the property... From cak Sun Mar 8 13:37:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA01561; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:36:58 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin53.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id QAA02680 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:32:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:32:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <980308163232_1309233835@mrin53> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Le Mans/Goodwood trip info? Am trying to plan a working trip to Le Mans and Goodwood Festival this year (June 5-13 or so). Any advice or other activities I should know about? Am also planning on visiting Donnington collection, etc. Any Ferrari sites/activities I should know about? Have never been to England before, so any pointers helpful. Thanks, Harold Pace From cak Wed Mar 11 13:13:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA01704; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:13:51 -0800 Received: from localhost by verdi.engr.utk.edu with SMTP (SMI-8.6/2.8s-UTK.UTCC) id VAA07089; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 21:13:08 GMT Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:13:08 -0500 (EST) From: Erik Nielsen To: vintage ferrari Subject: ferrari repair manual Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i just recieved a copy of the faf catalog #4 (i'm guessing this thing is from 1976) from steve algrim today. there is a ferrari tuning tips and maintenance techniques book listed. anyone know if someone has a copy that they are willing to part with? erik 365 gt4 2+2 ---------------------------------- Servizo Non-Autorizato Ferrari Tutte le riparazioni garantite fino alla messa in strada. From cak Wed Mar 11 13:58:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA01805; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:58:26 -0800 Received: from rsnodgrass.amazon.com (rsnodgrass.amazon.com [208.216.181.174]) by amazon.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA10267; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:57:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803112157.NAA10267@amazon.com> From: "Ryan Snodgrass" To: "Erik Nielsen" , "vintage ferrari" Subject: RE: ferrari repair manual Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:58:21 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal I'm guessing this is James Riff's "book" which is really just a collection of mimeographed pages. It has some interesting stuff in it and is around 170 pages I think. I'd be willing to run off a photocopy for you if interested. Len Miller, the editor of the 250GTE Register, also includes it in his 250GTE Handbook. Ryan > -----Original Message----- > From: Erik Nielsen [mailto:nielsen@verdi.engr.utk.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 1:13 PM > To: vintage ferrari > Subject: ferrari repair manual > > > i just recieved a copy of the faf catalog #4 (i'm guessing this thing is > from 1976) from steve algrim today. there is a ferrari tuning tips and > maintenance techniques book listed. anyone know if someone has a copy > that they are willing to part with? > erik > 365 gt4 2+2 > ---------------------------------- > Servizo Non-Autorizato Ferrari > Tutte le riparazioni garantite fino alla > messa in strada. > > From cak Wed Mar 11 14:25:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA02026; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:25:42 -0800 Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:25:42 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199803112225.OAA02026@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Cc: RE:, ferrari, manual, repair It started out as James Riff's book of resources, but I think that by the time FAF got hold of it, Gerald Roush had worked on it as well, to turn it into a more homogenous item. I've only seen the Riff book (I got one along with 9161), and it was mostly geared towards the mid-aged V12s, 250s and creeping into the 330. Gerald, do you care to comment? Any chance that a reprint of a later version could be arranged, or is it even worth it? From cak Wed Mar 11 18:21:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA03054; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:21:04 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust124.max21.atlanta.ga.ms.uu.net [153.35.51.124]) by germany.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA15356; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 18:20:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <35077089.4777@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 21:20:09 -0800 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Kantarjiev CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: References: <199803112225.OAA02026@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, I and John Apen extensively rewrote Jim Riff's earlier editions and published a Third Edition in 1975 -- that's 23 years ago! I could probably still lay my hands on a decent copy and for the cost of photocopying provide a semi-decent reproduction if anyone was interested. But the information is 23+ years old, and may no longer be relevant. There's been a lot of water under the bridge since then! Chris Kantarjiev wrote: > > It started out as James Riff's book of resources, but I think that by > the time FAF got hold of it, Gerald Roush had worked on it as well, > to turn it into a more homogenous item. I've only seen the Riff book > (I got one along with 9161), and it was mostly geared towards the > mid-aged V12s, 250s and creeping into the 330. > > Gerald, do you care to comment? Any chance that a reprint of a later > version could be arranged, or is it even worth it? From cak Wed Mar 11 19:32:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA03297; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:31:56 -0800 Received: from rsnodgrass.amazon.com (rsnodgrass.amazon.com [208.216.181.174]) by amazon.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA05975; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:30:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199803120330.TAA05975@amazon.com> From: "Ryan Snodgrass" To: , "Chris Kantarjiev" , Cc: Subject: RE: Ferrari Tuning Tips and Techniques Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:31:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal In-Reply-To: <35077089.4777@earthlink.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 What distinguishes your rewrite to Jim's original? I have two copies around here somewhere and didn't look to see if one is more current. I probably have the earlier edition since it doesn't mention FAF on my copy (in fact, I believe I got it from Chris originally). The other one is in the 250GTE Handbook by Len Miller and didn't have the Ferrari logo title page and intro by James like the other one I have, perhaps it is the updated version. I'd like to get an updated copy, if not just for historical sake. Ryan > -----Original Message----- > From: Gerald Roush [mailto:ferrmktltr@earthlink.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 9:20 PM > To: Chris Kantarjiev > Cc: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: Re: > > > Yes, I and John Apen extensively rewrote Jim Riff's earlier editions and > published a Third Edition in 1975 -- that's 23 years ago! > > I could probably still lay my hands on a decent copy and for the cost of > photocopying provide a semi-decent reproduction if anyone was > interested. > > But the information is 23+ years old, and may no longer be relevant. > There's been a lot of water under the bridge since then! > > > > Chris Kantarjiev wrote: > > > > It started out as James Riff's book of resources, but I think that by > > the time FAF got hold of it, Gerald Roush had worked on it as well, > > to turn it into a more homogenous item. I've only seen the Riff book > > (I got one along with 9161), and it was mostly geared towards the > > mid-aged V12s, 250s and creeping into the 330. > > > > Gerald, do you care to comment? Any chance that a reprint of a later > > version could be arranged, or is it even worth it? > From cak Thu Mar 12 02:45:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id CAA04326; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 02:45:11 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust108.tnt2.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.15.108]) by germany.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA23494; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 02:44:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3507E6CB.6651@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 05:44:43 -0800 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ryan Snodgrass CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Ferrari Tuning Tips and Techniques References: <199803120330.TAA05975@amazon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ryan Snodgrass wrote: > What distinguishes your rewrite to Jim's original? (A) A hell of a lot more information and (B) Organized into sections by subject in much the same manner as the factory manuals. The 3rd Edition is 150 pages long. From cak Thu Mar 19 20:11:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA03687; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:11:41 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad29-232.arl.compuserve.com [199.174.132.232]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA23667 for ; Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:11:04 -0800 (PST) From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Fw: Ferrari Literature Forsale Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:04:38 -0600 Message-ID: <01bd53b5$4d32c200$13c6afce@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0053_01BD5383.02985200" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BD5383.02985200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FYI. From Ryan Snodgrass via the other list. Regards, =20 Bryan -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Snodgrass To: Ferrari@SoftHome.net Date: Thursday, March 19, 1998 10:08 AM Subject: Ferrari Literature Forsale Ryan Snodgrass ryan.snodgrass@usa.net (425) 803-0556 I have decided it is time to weed out of my collection duplicates and = other items that are outside the scope of my Ferrari interest. So I spent a = few hours this weekend going through what I have and putting together a list = of the items that I have for sale. I may also interested in trades for rare = and unusual Ferrari related items, let me know what you have. Prices do not include shipping. "Le Mie Gioie Terribili: Du Anni Dopo." Ferrari, Enzo. 5th Italian = edition, November 1965. A chance to not only own this rare book but a signed = copy! Protective dust jacket around original dust jacket in good condition. = Book itself is in very good condition bound in a light blue cover. Title page signed in violet ink to Raymeut/Raymand/Rayment H. Hoyle by Enzo Ferrari = in 1969 and contains a stamped seal "SIAE: Societa Italiana Oegli Autori ed Editori - BO". Inside front cover is written in green marker "Stoyle" = or "Stogle". Inside back cover there is a sticker saying "Isa-Libreria, G. Betti, Perugia". Photos of cover and signed page available for serious buyers. $2000 "Le Ferrari" Rogliatti, Gianni. Copyright 1966 by L'Editrice dell'Automobile. First edition, in Italian. 12" x 16", 163 pages. Some = wear to dust jacket, slight water damage to lower left hand corner of cover = and inner lining. Binding need reattached and the first page is loose, but = the rest of the pages are in tip top condition. Includes original wrapper = for book. $200 "Ferrari: The Sports and Gran Turismo Cars" Fitzgerald, Warren W.; = Merritt, Richard F.; and Thompson, Jonathan. First edition, 1968. The book is = cloth bound and in excellent condition with dust jacket. $150 "Ferrari: The Sports and Gran Turismo Cars" Fitzgerald, Warren W.; = Merritt, Richard F.; and Thompson, Jonathan. First edition, 1968. The book is = cloth bound and in very good condition with dust jacket. Previous owners name = on inside cover. $140 "Ferrari: The Sports and Gran Turismo Cars" Fitzgerald, Warren W.; = Merritt, Richard F.; and Thompson, Jonathan. Revised second edition, 1973. 256 = pages. The book is cloth bound and in very good condition, no dust jacket $120 "Ferrari: The Sports and Gran Turismo Cars" Fitzgerald, Warren W.; = Merritt, Richard F.; and Thompson, Jonathan. Revised fourth edition, 1979. 280 = pages. The book and dusk jacket are in excellent condition. $95; an additional = copy with a well worn dust jacket, the book itself is in excellent condition = $85. "Ferrari Legend; The Competition 250 GT Berlinetta" Pourret, Jess G. Copyright 1977 Editions Pratiques Automobiles. This is the cloth bound English first edition printed by John W. Barnes, Jr. 382 pages. Book is = in very good condition except for writing inside the cover and before title page, dust jacket is in good condition except for =BD inch tear in upper = left corner. $90 an additional copy with a well worn dust jacket and writing inside of the book stating that the book is a gift, $65. "The Complete Ferrari" Eaton, Godfrey. Bonza 1986. 376 pages. A small = stain at the top of the book starts on approx. page 36 and is very small. Gets larger in the index of the book and on the back of the book. Dust jacket = is in very good condition. This is a classic book and one every Ferraristi should own. $75 "Ferrari Idea" catalog in red cover. I believe this was the last one printed. Includes price list sheet. $90 "Ferrari Design of Legend History & Catalog" 1990, Abbeville Press = edition. Unopened copy still in original packaging $75; another opened in = excellent condition and special plastic dust jacket $60. Very nicely bound Prancing Horse magazines by long-time enthusiast D. F. Marion, MD in red covers with gold lettering. Bound volume containing = issues from Winter/Spring 1979 to December 1981 (numbers 56, 57, 58, 59*60, 61, = 62, 63, 64) $95. Volume containing issues from March 82 to September 1983 (numbers 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72) $90. Volume containing issues = from January 1984 to Summer 1986 (numbers 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81) $95. "Rosso Ferrari #11" Winter 1994. High quality magazine printed quarterly = by Ferrari North America, Inc. Excellent condition. $20 Ferrari 365GT 2+2 Spare Parts Catalogue. (Print #23/68) Well worn, = evidence of use, pages in good condition. 1968 edition. $90 Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Chassis Service Manual Abstract (Print #46/71) Printed = in both Italian and English. $125 Ferrari F355 Spider Press Kit with slides (Print #974/95). Excellent condition. $150 Ferrari F355 Berlinetta Press Kit with slides (Print #877/94) Excellent condition. $125 Ferrari F512M Press Kit with slides (Print #905/94) Excellent condition. $125 Ferrari 456GT Press Kit with slides (Print #876/94) Excellent condition. $125 Ferrari F50 Press Kit with slides (Print #968/95) Excellent condition. = $275 ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BD5383.02985200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
FYI.  From Ryan Snodgrass via = the other=20 list.
 
Regards,  =
Bryan
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Ryan Snodgrass <ryan.snodgrass@usa.net>
= To:=20 Ferrari@SoftHome.net = <Ferrari@SoftHome.net>
D= ate:=20 Thursday, March 19, 1998 10:08 AM
Subject: Ferrari = Literature=20 Forsale

Ryan Snodgrass
ryan.snodgrass@usa.net
(425= )=20 803-0556

I have decided it is time to weed out of my collection=20 duplicates and other
items that are outside the scope of my Ferrari=20 interest.  So I spent a few
hours this weekend going through = what I have=20 and putting together a list of
the items that I have for sale. I may = also=20 interested in trades for rare and
unusual Ferrari related items, let = me know=20 what you have. Prices do not
include shipping.

"Le Mie = Gioie=20 Terribili: Du Anni Dopo." Ferrari, Enzo. 5th Italian = edition,
November=20 1965.  A chance to not only own this rare book but a signed=20 copy!
Protective dust jacket around original dust jacket in good = condition.=20 Book
itself is in very good condition bound in a light blue cover. = Title=20 page
signed in violet ink to Raymeut/Raymand/Rayment H. Hoyle by Enzo = Ferrari=20 in
1969 and contains a stamped seal "SIAE: Societa Italiana = Oegli Autori=20 ed
Editori - BO".  Inside front cover is written in green = marker=20 "Stoyle" or
"Stogle".  Inside back cover = there is a=20 sticker saying "Isa-Libreria, G.
Betti, Perugia". Photos of = cover=20 and signed page available for serious
buyers. $2000

"Le=20 Ferrari" Rogliatti, Gianni. Copyright 1966 by=20 L'Editrice
dell'Automobile.  First edition, in Italian. 12" = x=20 16", 163 pages. Some wear
to dust jacket, slight water damage to = lower=20 left hand corner of cover and
inner lining. Binding need reattached = and the=20 first page is loose, but the
rest of the pages are in tip top = condition.=20 Includes original wrapper for
book. $200

"Ferrari: The = Sports and=20 Gran Turismo Cars" Fitzgerald, Warren W.; Merritt,
Richard F.; = and=20 Thompson, Jonathan. First edition, 1968. The book is cloth
bound and = in=20 excellent condition with dust jacket. $150

"Ferrari: The = Sports and=20 Gran Turismo Cars" Fitzgerald, Warren W.; Merritt,
Richard F.; = and=20 Thompson, Jonathan. First edition, 1968. The book is cloth
bound and = in very=20 good condition with dust jacket.  Previous owners name on
inside = cover.  $140

"Ferrari: The Sports and Gran Turismo = Cars"=20 Fitzgerald, Warren W.; Merritt,
Richard F.; and Thompson, Jonathan. = Revised=20 second edition, 1973. 256 pages.
The book is cloth bound and in very = good=20 condition, no dust jacket $120

"Ferrari: The Sports and Gran = Turismo=20 Cars" Fitzgerald, Warren W.; Merritt,
Richard F.; and Thompson,=20 Jonathan. Revised fourth edition, 1979. 280 pages.
The book and dusk = jacket=20 are in excellent condition. $95; an additional copy
with a well worn = dust=20 jacket, the book itself is in excellent condition = $85.

"Ferrari=20 Legend; The Competition 250 GT Berlinetta" Pourret, Jess = G.
Copyright=20 1977 Editions Pratiques Automobiles. This is the cloth bound
English = first=20 edition printed by John W. Barnes, Jr. 382 pages.  Book is = in
very good=20 condition except for writing inside the cover and before title
page, = dust=20 jacket is in good condition except for ½ inch tear in upper=20 left
corner. $90 an additional copy with a well worn dust jacket and=20 writing
inside of the book stating that the book is a gift,=20 $65.

"The Complete Ferrari" Eaton, Godfrey. Bonza 1986. = 376=20 pages. A small stain
at the top of the book starts on approx. page 36 = and is=20 very small. Gets
larger in the index of the book and on the back of = the book.=20 Dust jacket is
in very good condition. This is a classic book and one = every=20 Ferraristi
should own. $75

"Ferrari Idea" catalog in = red=20 cover. I believe this was the last one
printed.  Includes price = list=20 sheet. $90

"Ferrari Design of Legend History & = Catalog"=20 1990, Abbeville Press edition.
Unopened copy still in original = packaging $75;=20 another opened in excellent
condition and special plastic dust jacket = $60.

Very nicely bound Prancing Horse magazines by long-time = enthusiast=20 D. F.
Marion, MD in red covers with gold lettering. Bound volume = containing=20 issues
from Winter/Spring 1979 to December 1981 (numbers 56, 57, 58, = 59*60,=20 61, 62,
63, 64) $95.  Volume containing issues from March 82 to=20 September 1983
(numbers 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72) $90.  = Volume=20 containing issues from
January 1984 to Summer 1986 (numbers 73, 74, = 75, 76,=20 77, 78, 79, 80, 81)
$95.

"Rosso Ferrari #11" Winter = 1994.=20 High quality magazine printed quarterly by
Ferrari North America, = Inc.=20 Excellent condition. $20

Ferrari 365GT 2+2 Spare Parts Catalogue. = (Print=20 #23/68) Well worn, evidence
of use, pages in good condition. 1968 = edition.=20 $90

Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Chassis Service Manual Abstract (Print = #46/71)=20 Printed in
both Italian and English. $125

Ferrari F355 Spider = Press=20 Kit with slides (Print #974/95). Excellent
condition.  = $150
Ferrari=20 F355 Berlinetta Press Kit with slides (Print #877/94) = Excellent
condition.=20 $125
Ferrari F512M Press Kit with slides (Print #905/94) Excellent=20 condition.
$125
Ferrari 456GT Press Kit with slides (Print = #876/94)=20 Excellent condition.
$125
Ferrari F50 Press Kit with slides (Print = #968/95) Excellent condition. $275 ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01BD5383.02985200-- From cak Fri Mar 20 07:26:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA00661; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 07:26:48 -0800 Received: from localhost by verdi.engr.utk.edu with SMTP (SMI-8.6/2.8s-UTK.UTCC) id PAA06425; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:26:08 GMT Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:26:08 -0500 (EST) From: Erik Nielsen To: vintage ferrari Subject: ferrari models Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i'm thinking about starting to collect 1/43 scale models (my 1/18 and 1/24 just take up way too much room). can anyone recomend which brands to buy? is bbr really worth the $200 per model? thanks, erik From cak Sat Mar 21 05:09:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA00215; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 05:09:03 -0800 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p86.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.86]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10150 for ; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 14:08:23 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3513BB62.53C23FA7@worldonline.nl> Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 14:06:42 +0100 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: Ferraris in Brunei Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm doing a small research about the (special) Ferraris owned by the Sultan of Brunei. You all know that he (read: his family) owns many, many Ferraris. But in an article in 'Gli Amici della Ferrari' (magazine of Ferrari Club of the Netherlands) I read about some very special Ferraris. What about these : * 456 GT Station Wagon (picture on http://www.pilotfan.com/ferrari/). * 550 Maranello with 4 doors. * 'F90'. Designed by Pininfarina and built on a Testarossa chassis. * Mythos. Did you know there were more Mythos's in the world ?? * 20 (yes, twenty) F40's in all the Benetton colours. * Propably many other very special Ferraris. I'm looking for more information about these cars, especially pictures. If you can help or if you know somebody who knows more, please let me know. Greetings, Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen From cak Sun Mar 22 21:40:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA02765; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 21:40:49 -0800 Received: by INET-03-IMC with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Sun, 22 Mar 1998 21:40:17 -0800 Message-ID: From: Jeff Littrell To: Edvar van Daalen , Ferrari Vintage List Subject: RE: Ferraris in Brunei Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 21:40:14 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) I finally contribute. A friend of mine has been doing all the AV for the Sultan's car museum. He (my AV guy) is not a real Ferrari buff but has taken lots of pictures and knows everyone over there and continues to spend time over there. I will talk to him. Any specific questions? Jeff Littrell 365 GTC/4 s/n 15505 F355 F1 s/n too big to memorize > -----Original Message----- > From: Edvar van Daalen [SMTP:daalen@worldonline.nl] > Sent: Saturday, March 21, 1998 5:07 AM > To: Ferrari Vintage List > Subject: Ferraris in Brunei > > Hi, > > I'm doing a small research about the (special) Ferraris owned by the > Sultan of > Brunei. You all know that he (read: his family) owns many, many Ferraris. > But in an > article in 'Gli Amici della Ferrari' (magazine of Ferrari Club of the > Netherlands) I > read about some very special Ferraris. What about these : > > * 456 GT Station Wagon (picture on http://www.pilotfan.com/ferrari/). > * 550 Maranello with 4 doors. > * 'F90'. Designed by Pininfarina and built on a Testarossa chassis. > * Mythos. Did you know there were more Mythos's in the world ?? > * 20 (yes, twenty) F40's in all the Benetton colours. > * Propably many other very special Ferraris. > > I'm looking for more information about these cars, especially pictures. If > you can > help or if you know somebody who knows more, please let me know. > > Greetings, > > Edvar > > -- > "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari > -- > > Edvar van Daalen > Den Bramel 20 > 7608 NA Almelo > The Netherlands > > Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 > Email : daalen@worldonline.nl > Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen > From cak Mon Mar 23 05:05:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA00207; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 05:05:18 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust191.tnt2.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.15.191]) by italy.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA14342; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 05:04:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3516881E.2F79@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 08:04:46 -0800 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeff Littrell CC: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: 355 F1 S/N References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Littrell wrote: > F355 F1 s/n too big to memorize - how about supplying just the last six numbers? i.e. ZFFXR41A_W0 _ _ _ _ _ _ From cak Mon Mar 23 09:36:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA00823; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:36:08 -0800 Received: by INET-04-IMC with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:35:18 -0800 Message-ID: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D8100435C301@red-msg-50.dns.microsoft.com> From: Bob Grudem To: "'Edvar van Daalen'" , Ferrari Vintage List Subject: RE: Ferraris in Brunei Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:35:17 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) According to the guides on my Ferrari factory tour last October, the Sultan of Brunei bought the first *six* F50's. > -----Original Message----- > From: Edvar van Daalen [SMTP:daalen@worldonline.nl] > Sent: Saturday, March 21, 1998 5:07 AM > To: Ferrari Vintage List > Subject: Ferraris in Brunei > > Hi, > > I'm doing a small research about the (special) Ferraris owned by the > Sultan of > Brunei. You all know that he (read: his family) owns many, many Ferraris. > But in an > article in 'Gli Amici della Ferrari' (magazine of Ferrari Club of the > Netherlands) I > read about some very special Ferraris. What about these : > > * 456 GT Station Wagon (picture on http://www.pilotfan.com/ferrari/). > * 550 Maranello with 4 doors. > * 'F90'. Designed by Pininfarina and built on a Testarossa chassis. > * Mythos. Did you know there were more Mythos's in the world ?? > * 20 (yes, twenty) F40's in all the Benetton colours. > * Propably many other very special Ferraris. > > I'm looking for more information about these cars, especially pictures. If > you can > help or if you know somebody who knows more, please let me know. > > Greetings, > > Edvar > > -- > "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari > -- > > Edvar van Daalen > Den Bramel 20 > 7608 NA Almelo > The Netherlands > > Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 > Email : daalen@worldonline.nl > Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen > From cak Wed Mar 25 04:21:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id EAA04839; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 04:20:55 -0800 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p74.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.74]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28818 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:20:19 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3518F61B.1D5E9FE5@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:18:35 +0100 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: Re: Ferraris in Brunei References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (This message is written by Jeff Littrell. Just forwarding it to the list ) Jeff Littrell wrote: > Oh, and I hadn't realized the stir I would create w/ my sig. Yes, I bought > a new F1. For Gerald and the other s/n counters out there here are the > details: > > 98 F355 F1 Berlinetta > s/n ZFFXR41A6W0111245 > Grigio Titanio > Black rear Challenge grill > Black Leather Carbon Fiber seats > Purchased new from Ferrari of Beverly Hills 2/98 From cak Tue Mar 31 12:05:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA01486; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:05:05 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME ([195.121.70.163]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with SMTP id AAA1BE for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:04:28 +0200 Message-ID: <3521CAD5.12FB@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:04:21 -0800 From: Bert de Boer Reply-To: fer340am@wxs.nl Organization: World Access X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-WXS-16 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Lost mail Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Recieveing my mail from the last three days my computer went down and I lost my mail. Did anyone send me (or the list) some mail in this period? please sent it again. Kare, I know you send some but I wasn't able to read it. Bert de Boer From cak Tue Mar 31 14:49:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA02079; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:49:57 -0800 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:49:57 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199803312249.OAA02079@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: what say ye? Just got this in the mail - I'll take the fact that Gerald suggested he get in touch as a nomination (normally I encourage folks to nominate new members to the list before contacting said new members, just in case someone objects violently) - but we still need a second... >From brown@landau.phys.washington.edu Tue Mar 31 12:42:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA01586; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:42:03 -0800 Received: by landau.phys.washington.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id MAA09011; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:41:29 -0800 From: Lowell Brown Message-Id: <199803312041.MAA09011@landau.phys.washington.edu> Subject: ferrari-vintage list To: cak Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:41:28 -0800 (PST) Cc: brown@landau.phys.washington.edu (Lowell Brown) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 879 Status: RO Dear Chris Kantarjiev, (I hope that I spelled you name right!) I was just talking with Gerald Roush. He told me that you have started a new email list about vintage Ferraris. I would very much appreciate your including me on this list. I would also enjoy reading the archives of the list if this is possible. Since I do not own an older Ferrari (only an 84 308), I would not be a regular contributor to the list. For the past few years, I have however organized garage tours about twice a year here in the Seattle area for the local Ferrari Club. I have written descriptions for the club newsletter of the cars that we see on these tours. Many of these cars are very interesting with interesting histories. In the future I could perhaps contribute such accounts to your list if you think that this would be appropriate. I hope that your 330 is alive and well. Lowell Brown From cak Tue Mar 31 15:41:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA02412; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:41:01 -0800 Received: by INET-IMC-01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2166.0) id ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:40:28 -0800 Message-ID: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D8100435C341@red-msg-50.dns.microsoft.com> From: Bob Grudem To: "'cak@dimebank.com'" , ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: what say ye? Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:40:19 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2166.0) I'll vouch for Lowell. Nice guy, likes Ferraris. I've met him at a number of Northwest-area events, including several of his garage tours. > -----Original Message----- > From: cak@dimebank.com [SMTP:cak@dimebank.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 2:50 PM > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: what say ye? > > Just got this in the mail - I'll take the fact that Gerald suggested > he get in touch as a nomination (normally I encourage folks to > nominate new members to the list before contacting said > new members, just in case someone objects violently) - but we > still need a second... > > From brown@landau.phys.washington.edu Tue Mar 31 12:42:05 1998 > Return-Path: > Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA01586; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:42:03 > -0800 > Received: by landau.phys.washington.edu > (950413.SGI.8.6.12/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id MAA09011; > Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:41:29 -0800 > From: Lowell Brown > Message-Id: <199803312041.MAA09011@landau.phys.washington.edu> > Subject: ferrari-vintage list > To: cak > Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:41:28 -0800 (PST) > Cc: brown@landau.phys.washington.edu (Lowell Brown) > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] > Content-Type: text > Content-Length: 879 > Status: RO > > Dear Chris Kantarjiev, > > (I hope that I spelled you name right!) > > I was just talking with Gerald Roush. He told me that you have > started a new email list about vintage Ferraris. I would very much > appreciate your including me on this list. I would also enjoy reading > the archives of the list if this is possible. > > Since I do not own an older Ferrari (only an 84 308), I would not be a > regular contributor to the list. For the past few years, I have however > organized garage tours about twice a year here in the Seattle area for > the local Ferrari Club. I have written descriptions for the club > newsletter of the cars that we see on these tours. Many of these cars > are very interesting with interesting histories. In the future I > could perhaps contribute such accounts to your list if you think that > this would be appropriate. > > I hope that your 330 is alive and well. > > Lowell Brown From cak Tue Mar 31 17:21:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA02894; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:21:49 -0800 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 17:21:49 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199804010121.RAA02894@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: sigh ... maybe this is out of my control Folks, please read this. I started this list as a reaction to all the noise on the "main" Ferrari list. My goal was, and is, to keep the traffic quality here very high. To that end, I decided early on that it should be an exclusive club - a prospective member has to be proposed and seconded *to the list* *BEFORE* being invited to join. Today, I've received two messages of the form "hi, you don't know me but Joe said you've got this great list and I really want to join". I don't want to get these kinds of messages. If you have someone who you think would make a valuable contribution (note, that is quite different from "would be interested in watching"), please suggest her or him to the list. If someone else is willing to second that person, I will be happy to send an invitation to join. Yes, this sounds disgustingly elitist. I'm sorry - I don't know any better way to do it. If you do, feel free to tell me (and the list) about it. From cak Wed Apr 1 05:57:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA00366; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 05:57:25 -0800 From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com Received: by isserv9.idx.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 852565D9.004C1490 ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:51:00 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IDX1 To: ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <852565D9.0049DBDF.00@isserv9.idx.com> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:46:10 -0500 Subject: Re: sigh ... maybe this is out of my control Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Guys, When Chris started this list way back when computers still had tubes and Ferraris still had their engines up front, we all agreed to the "nomination/second" method of admitting new members to the list. Indeed some people consider this elitist, but I feel that this is really the only way to exclude discussions like "what color of red is your car" or "how is sex in the backseat of a 2+2" (actually more on #2 later). In short, I support Chris's procedure and recommend that we all adhere to it. It has been pushing 80 degrees F here in Vermont the last few days but we haven't had enough rain to was the salt off the roads -- so the 330 is still in hibernation. I did take the bike out for a quick run on Saturday but watch out for the sand in the turns (yes i did keep the pointy end up but did a little sliding). The GTE restoration is finally progressing again and all of the repair work aft of the firewall has been completed. The car is in primer and we will probably start putting the suspension on in a couple of weeks or so. With a little luck 3351 will be back on the road in a year or so. If any of you know where I can get a couple of Series III headlight rims please let me know. cak@dimebank.com on 03/31/98 08:21:49 PM To: ferrari-vintage cc: (bcc: Robert Weeks/BVT/IDX1) Subject: sigh ... maybe this is out of my control Body: Folks, please read this. I started this list as a reaction to all the noise on the "main" Ferrari list. My goal was, and is, to keep the traffic quality here very high. To that end, I decided early on that it should be an exclusive club - a prospective member has to be proposed and seconded *to the list* *BEFORE* being invited to join. Today, I've received two messages of the form "hi, you don't know me but Joe said you've got this great list and I really want to join". I don't want to get these kinds of messages. If you have someone who you think would make a valuable contribution (note, that is quite different from "would be interested in watching"), please suggest her or him to the list. If someone else is willing to second that person, I will be happy to send an invitation to join. Yes, this sounds disgustingly elitist. I'm sorry - I don't know any better way to do it. If you do, feel free to tell me (and the list) about it. From cak Wed Apr 1 06:06:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00395; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 06:06:06 -0800 Received: from localhost by verdi.engr.utk.edu with SMTP (SMI-8.6/2.8s-UTK.UTCC) id OAA06172; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 14:05:29 GMT Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:05:29 -0500 (EST) From: Erik Nielsen To: vintage ferrari Subject: 365 tune up Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII the plan for this weekend is to flush the brakes, change plugs, and change the differntial oil in the 365. does anyone have any comments or suggestions that deviate from either the owners manual or the sefac manual that i should be aware of? thanks, erik 18759 From cak Wed Apr 1 07:35:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA00809; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:35:54 -0800 From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com Received: by isserv9.idx.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 852565D9.00559FB8 ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:35:14 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IDX1 To: ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <852565D9.0055709B.00@isserv9.idx.com> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:34:34 -0500 Subject: Message for Bert de Boer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: ferrari-vintage Sorry to send this to the whole list but I seem to have lost Bert's address. Bert, I just got a scanner and scanned three photos of 0030MT. I could try to email them to you but am not sure what format you prefer (TIFF, JPEG, TARGA, GIF, PCX, PPM, Windows BMP). Let me know and we will see if we can make it work. Sincerely, Bob Weeks From cak Wed Apr 1 09:09:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01037; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:09:13 -0800 Received: by INET-04-IMC with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <2C82NV0A>; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:06:03 -0800 Message-ID: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D8100435C345@red-msg-50.dns.microsoft.com> From: Bob Grudem To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Nomination of Michael Bradley Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:05:46 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) I would like to nominate Michael Bradley for the list. He's been in the FCA since the '70s, and is currently the Concours Chairman for the Northwest Region. He had a GTE for 17 years, finally trading it in for a Euro 308 which he brings to most local club events (you can see it on the club's website gallery: http://users.tss.net/fcanwr/gallery.htm. Look for "Michael and Ildi".). He told me the club used to have outings where Carlo (Alfa of Tacoma) would follow to take care of whoever broke. Despite the nagging question of the reliability of old cars, he wants one again, and is wondering whether to track down his old GTE or look for a 250 PF coupe, instead. He's been kind to me personally in a number of ways. He took photos of my rebuilt suspension when I didn't have a camera handy, and he gave me his *best* picture of the fully assembled and running Daytona motor on the stand last January at Alfa of Tacoma --- because my car was in the background. From cak Wed Apr 1 09:26:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01124; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:26:33 -0800 Received: by INET-IMC-01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2166.0) id <2C8B1B71>; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:26:01 -0800 Message-ID: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D8100435C347@red-msg-50.dns.microsoft.com> From: Bob Grudem To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Nomination of Brian Conlan Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:25:58 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2166.0) I would like to nominate Brian Conlan to the list. In my continuing series of nominations of Pacific Northwest Ferrari fanatics, I can't leave out Brian. He has a gorgeous red 330 GTC that he maintains himself. The day we met I was explaining how expensive my repairs had been because I preferred to have an expert do them. He, along with Dan Case, tried to convince me I could do it myself. But, they said, I should learn from his mistakes, such as forgetting (twice!) to put the oil cap back on before starting the car. It makes a *big* mess. He gave me a copy of the 330 shop manual to get me started. Now that my car is coming out of the shop again I plan to accept his offer to drive the GTC for comparison with the 2+2. From cak Wed Apr 1 10:25:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01354; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:25:19 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME ([195.121.70.73]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with SMTP id AAA4E4D for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:22:57 +0200 Message-ID: <3523045C.5C0@wxs.nl> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 19:22:04 -0800 From: Bert de Boer Reply-To: fer340am@wxs.nl Organization: World Access X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-WXS-16 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Nomination Harald Mergard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to nominate Harald Mergard. I haven't spoken to him if he is interested but he is the right kind of guy that should be on the list. He owns a great collection of Ferrari's including a 212 Export, 225 Sport, 375 MM, 410 SA, 500 Mondial, 250 Boano, 250 GT, 512M, 365 GTB competizione and may be more. He is one of the driving forces behind the Pirro-side. I have been in contact with him for a while and he knows a lot about Ferrari's, in particular old Ferrari's, and he is always willing to help. Bert de Boer From cak Wed Apr 1 10:33:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01407; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:33:57 -0800 Received: by INET-03-IMC with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <2C8GZ0NH>; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:33:27 -0800 Message-ID: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D8100435C349@red-msg-50.dns.microsoft.com> From: Bob Grudem To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Change of e-mail address Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:33:17 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) For those who might have personal address book entries for me, my preferred e-mail address has changed. The new address is suegru@sprynet.com. (I've had an e-mail alias for long enough, now it's my wife's turn :) Chris, please update the distribution list. Bob Grudem 330 GT 2+2, s/n 8095 From cak Wed Apr 1 10:37:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01426; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:37:09 -0800 Received: from localhost by verdi.engr.utk.edu with SMTP (SMI-8.6/2.8s-UTK.UTCC) id SAA08289; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 18:35:38 GMT Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:35:38 -0500 (EST) From: Erik Nielsen To: Bert de Boer cc: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Nomination Harald Mergard In-Reply-To: <3523045C.5C0@wxs.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII sounds good to me. erik > I would like to nominate Harald Mergard. I haven't spoken to him if he > is interested but he is the right kind of guy that should be on the > list. > > He owns a great collection of Ferrari's including a 212 Export, 225 > Sport, 375 MM, 410 SA, 500 Mondial, 250 Boano, 250 GT, 512M, 365 GTB > competizione and may be more. > > He is one of the driving forces behind the Pirro-side. I have been in > contact with him for a while and he knows a lot about Ferrari's, in > particular old Ferrari's, and he is always willing to help. > > Bert de Boer > From cak Wed Apr 1 11:02:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01579; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:02:18 -0800 Received: by INET-04-IMC with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <2C823C3R>; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:59:43 -0800 Message-ID: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D8100435C34A@red-msg-50.dns.microsoft.com> From: Bob Grudem To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Electric window lift switches for 330 GT 2+2 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:59:39 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Carlo didn't find switches to replace the flaky originals. Could anyone recommend where to get a set of either originals or compatibles (electrically and size-wise)? Is it feasible to rebuild the switches? Thanks From cak Wed Apr 1 11:34:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01807; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:34:32 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:34:32 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199804011934.LAA01807@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: nielsen@verdi.engr.utk.edu Subject: re: 365 tune up Cc: ferrari-vintage I can't remember which sort of 365 you have (sorry), but the fact that you mention "differential" oil and not "transaxle" oil encourages me to continue. When we picked up 9161 in Texas, I topped up the diff and gearbox with Castrol 90W EP. When we got home, I decided to get closer to the original specs, as tempered by the march of technology. So the gearbox was drained and filled with Redline MTL. Today I'd probably put in MT-90; wasn't available then. The diff was more of a challenge - the factory calls for (if I recall correctly) a 250 W gear oil from Shell. Of course, the particular brandname isn't available any more, and when I called Shell they told me that they didn't really have anything equivalent any more. Besides, 250W is *heavy* stuff ... I'm sure it was spec'ed for the kind of use the 2+2s were designed for, hours of 200kph driving on the Autostrada. I went back to Redline's catalog, and put in their 80w140 diff lube. This stuff already has the limited slip additive included, and has been great. It didn't completely eliminate the whine around 60, but it helped. Check them out at www.redlineoil.com Whatever heavy oil you put back there, it will be easier if you heat it. Drive the car for a while to warm the old oil before draining. Warm the new oil in a container of water on the stove - that is, warm up a pot of water and plop the bottle of oil in; maybe put a bowl or something in on the bottom so the bottle isn't directly against the pot. 100 degrees F should be plenty to make pumping the stuff appreciably easier. From cak Wed Apr 1 11:42:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01869; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:42:27 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:42:27 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199804011942.LAA01869@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: re: Electric window lift switches for 330 GT 2+2 I have no idea who made these switches, since I've never had ours out and yours are probably different! Every 330 2+2 I've seen with electric lifts has had a slightly different arrangement. I wouldn't be surprised if they were Lucas made; there are a bunch of Lucas parts on the car. It would help to have manufacturer and model number. Fred Petroske always seemed to have a 330 parts car, have you tried him? The other person I have talked to from time to time is George Muenchinger, (401) 322-4085. Jason Stoltz once has a huge stash of 330 parts: JM_STOLTZ@ACAD.FANDM.EDU. Of course, there's Geoff Ohland at Partsource, but you've probably already tried him and he probably isn't interested in such a piddling part. Symbolic and Tillack are the other likely suspects. I have had good luck placing a "Miscellaneous Wanted" ad in the FML for such little things... Switches can certainly be rebuilt, if there is no other recourse. Since they are not *meant* to be rebuilt, this may require careful sawing of the seams where they have been plastic-welded, followed by cleaning of the contacts and careful gluing. From cak Wed Apr 1 11:42:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01864; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:42:03 -0800 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p36.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.36]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA01016 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:41:12 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <35229824.F79284E8@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 21:40:20 +0200 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: Re: Nomination Harald Mergard References: <3523045C.5C0@wxs.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bert de Boer wrote: > > I would like to nominate Harald Mergard. I haven't spoken to him if he > is interested but he is the right kind of guy that should be on the > list. > > He owns a great collection of Ferrari's including a 212 Export, 225 > Sport, 375 MM, 410 SA, 500 Mondial, 250 Boano, 250 GT, 512M, 365 GTB > competizione and may be more. > > He is one of the driving forces behind the Pirro-side. I have been in > contact with him for a while and he knows a lot about Ferrari's, in > particular old Ferrari's, and he is always willing to help. > > Bert de Boer Harald Mergard is a very nice person. I emailed a lot with him, and I really learned a lot about Ferraris. His site is really great (thanks to Andreas Birner and others), so I'm sure he is a great addition to this list. Let's make him a member too !!!! Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen From cak Wed Apr 1 12:11:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA02023; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:11:39 -0800 Received: from WDanCase@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id 4QHDa15786 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:11:04 -0500 (EST) From: WDanCase Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:11:04 EST To: ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Nomination of Brian Conlan Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 I would like to second Brian Conlan's nomination. He is an unwavering V-12 enthusiast, and is never afraid to dive in and work on his 330 GTC. He keeps his car in immaculate shape. We trade Ferrari war stories, advice, and information on a regular basis. Dan P.S. Has anyone changed the Metalastic bushings in the sway bar links on a 330? Can I remove them by boiling the links (which appear to be alloy) in water for an hour to expand them and hopefully have the old bushings drop out? Or is this a hydraulic press operation? From cak Wed Apr 1 12:29:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA02100; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:29:07 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:29:07 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199804012029.MAA02100@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Metalastic bushings Has anyone changed the Metalastic bushings in the sway bar links on a 330? The end (drop) links? This should just be an issue of pressing them out and in with a vise. I know I've done them, but it was a while back, so I don't remember the details. They *should* be like most Metalastic bushings - rubber bonded to a steel tube in the core. What I typically do is find two suitably sized sockets: one is big enough and deep enough to (just) allow the bushing to fit inside, the other small enough to press on the bushing but clear the part being pressed through (the link, in this case). Align them all in the vise (it helps to have three hands for this operation) such that you are applying pressure to the bushing via one socket and resisting the the motion of the link with the other socket. Crank. The bushing should move out fairly easily, especially if it's worn and cracked. I suppose you might find a recalcitrant one that wants a small hydraulic press, but my 4" wilton vise has yet to fail me. (Use Craftsman sockets in case you ruin one!) Clean out the inside of the link - it'll probably have bits of rubber stuck to it. The ideal tool for this is a small wire wheel in a Dremel - wear eye protection. In a pinch, a small hand pad of Scotchbrite will get the job done. Use some silicone grease, silicone spray, or dishwashing soap to lubricate the new bushing and press it in much as you pressed out the old one. I've never tried heating the part, though it should certainly help. There are *some* Metalastic bushings that have an outer steel sleeve as well. These are a real nuisance to remove, because the steel sleeve tends to corrode to the parts, and is so thin that you can't really apply pressure to it. When faced with one of these, I try the method outlined above, usually applying some kroil to the metal-to-metal joint first. When that doesn't work, I might try light application of a torch to the part - this is dicey and usually doesn't help much. Then I burn the rubber out (phew!) and use a hacksaw blade to remove the steel sleeve in pieces. I hate those. From cak Wed Apr 1 12:35:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA02188; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:35:27 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:35:27 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199804012035.MAA02188@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: bobgru@MICROSOFT.com, rsnodgrass@usa.net Subject: RE: Nomination of Michael Bradley Cc: ferrari-vintage Thanks one and all. SInce Michael already contacted me about the list, I will add him; I'll send invitations to Harald and Brian. From cak Wed Apr 1 12:56:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA02355; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:56:32 -0800 Received: from PaceCars@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id ELHWa09115; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:55:49 -0500 (EST) From: PaceCars Message-ID: <67a8b8e2.3522a9d7@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:55:49 EST To: bobgru@microsoft.com, ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Nomination of Michael Bradley Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sounds like a good choice. I could use concours advice! Harold Pace From cak Wed Apr 1 13:01:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02372; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:01:40 -0800 Received: from PaceCars@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id NZPKa15785; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:57:53 -0500 (EST) From: PaceCars Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:57:53 EST To: fer340am@wxs.nl, ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Nomination Harald Mergard Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sounds like another good source of info! I'll second that one. Harold Pace From cak Wed Apr 1 13:10:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02405; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:10:57 -0800 Received: from Boss.att.worldnet.net ([12.64.176.200]) by mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA8862 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:10:17 +0000 Message-ID: <3522AC3E.2E379A7D@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 13:06:06 -0800 From: David Booth Reply-To: boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net Organization: Boothrafters, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Subject: Brian Conlan seconded X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Group: I'm happy to second the nomination of Brian Conlan to the VF List. I feel as though people with the spirit to get in there and put a wrench on their cars' internals are welcome additions to the dialog and would have something interesting to contribute. Best, Dave Booth From cak Wed Apr 1 13:20:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02455; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:20:56 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:20:56 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199804012120.NAA02455@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Brian Conlon Will not be joining us at the moment: From: "Conlan, Brian R" To: "'cak@dimebank.com'" Subject: RE: an invitation Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:13:08 -0800 Chris, Thank you for the invitation. However, this is my company business computer and I do not use it for recreational correspondence. I do not have a home computer. I appreciate your offer. If I get a home set up I will contact you. Enjoy your 330 and all things Ferrari. Brian Z From cak Wed Apr 1 13:47:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02602; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:47:31 -0800 Received: from WDanCase@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id 4WVKa05946 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:46:45 -0500 (EST) From: WDanCase Message-ID: <558e8bf9.3522b5ce@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:46:45 EST To: ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Swaybar endlink bushings Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Chris: I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who's wrestled with these buggers. My car has the happy little bushings with the inner and outer steel sleeve. I'm going to try heating first. I just hate to leave press marks or gouges on anything Ferrari, no matter how well hidden, so I want to try the gentle method first. I have used a press technique similar to yours on Jaguar XJ6 metalastic steering rack bushings, but with a twist, since I couldn't hold the rack up to my vice while it and myriad connections, hoses, and joints were attached to the car. I put a socket on the end of the (steel) bushing mount, put stiff washers that would contact the outer sleeve on the bushing, and a bolt through the whole assembly, with a nut on the business end. Tightened the nut, and out she came, captured in the socket. I'll post my findings when I get further into the project. Got my bushings in the mail today, though. Dan From cak Wed Apr 1 14:06:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA02733; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 14:06:34 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 14:06:34 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199804012206.OAA02733@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: WDanCase@aol.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Swaybar endlink bushings I just can't remember. I know that one of the bushings was essentially gone when we bought the car - the rubber had disintegrated. It was one of the tasks we completed in Houston before going on the road. I don't have my car handy to look at - is it possible that the other end of the drop link doesn't have an outer sleeve on its bushing? I don't remember this being one of the hard jobs. (Putting new hose onto the old fuel line fittings was the hardest of the bunch...) Yes, using a hefty threaded rod and appropriate washers is a time-honored alternate technique. I wonder if it's possible to use the new bushing to push the old one out, outer metal sleeve against outer metal sleeve, with a socket at one end and a threaded rod through the middle? Kroil or (Boeshield T9, since you're in the Northwet), will certainly not hurt. From cak Wed Apr 1 14:32:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA02884; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 14:32:36 -0800 Received: from 207.211.61.90 (p15.hwts02.loop.net [207.211.61.90]) by ritchie.loop.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA08767; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:07:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abrent@loop.com) Message-ID: <35232E01.6DA8@loop.com> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 06:19:53 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@loop.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Kantarjiev CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: sigh ... maybe this is out of my control References: <199804010121.RAA02894@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey dude, Nope, the way your doing this is the way it needs to be done. Anyone who 'drops in' should be politely asked to be nominated. I blew it a couple of months ago by inadverntly announcing the presence of this list on the 'main' list and got a number of enquiries. The up-side was the addition of people like Kelly-LaVelle who was very helpful with my recent visit to Australia and I'm sure she will contribute many things in the future. The down side was a raft of enquiries from the 3x8 crowd, which I edited and passed on the more suitable ones. I myself have sucked vast amounts of useful stuff from yourself and others in this forum. It seems quiet at times but, that's not a bad thing, as I, and I'm sure others, have to have time for the day gig to pay for our weekend warrior excursions into the depth's of vintage V12 ownership. Anyway, I don't think of myself as an elitist, I know you're not (the hair, man) and I'm sure the other owners on this list really don't want it clogged up with alot of BS about stoplight drag racers and people who 'think' they 'may' like to own a classic. I am, however, interested in Bob Weeks comment about sex, maybee the 330's don't have that really high center armrest...... Andrew. From cak Wed Apr 1 16:57:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA03508; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:57:10 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:57:10 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199804020057.QAA03508@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: tool kits I just got off the phone with George Muenchinger; mentioning his name earlier today reminded me that I had a note from him sitting on my desk from last Fall, and I owed him a phone call.... Rewind a bit: while 9161 was being repaired, a couple of the trim rings that finish the a/c vents in the center of the dash were lost. I advertised in the FML looking for them, and George was one of the people who contacted me and was able to provide me with one. We started talking about toolkits - ours is there but apparently incomplete - and I offered to send him photos of what we had. Ferrari toolkit lore is apparently a thing with him, and this is a particularly difficult era by all accounts. I also rambled on about my efforts to try to rationalize the various factory documents into something that made sense ... I don't have it all handy but can dig it out (Bob Weeks has heard it all before). Basically, we ended up with two wrenches when we bought the car, and no grease gun, and it appears that the factory parts book would have us have a fairly complete set of wrenches. But just what "complete" means is hard to fathom. Anyway ... I had a proposal that there should be a particular set of seven wrenches in the car, which covers all the fasteners that are on the car (in particular, it includes a 14mm wrench to fit the old-style M8 nuts and bolts). The note from George contained the cryptic phrase "I think you may be going about putting your toolkit together in the wrong way". So we talked. I have supplemented the tools that came with the car with wrenches of the sizes I've guessed at; some are Beta 55s or the same type as were there, some are Beta 55s with a different finish, and a couple that I haven't found a modern USAG wrenches, which look awfully similar. He seems to think that this is heresy. He also thinks that the jack we have is a Dino jack, despite the fact that they didn't start making them until a few years later. (I find this particularly hard to believe - the former owner reported losing tools during service visits to the dealer, but not the jack; he would have mentioned that, I'm sure.) I opined that my interest in the car is as a driver, not a concours car, and my interst in the toolkit is primarily to have a decent tool selection to repair the car on the side of the road if I need it. He thought I was nuts. "You're not putting together a toolkit to fix the car, you're putting together a toolkit to make the car correct. That jack is unsafe - and using it will scratch the finish on the jack after you've had it refinished. Go to Sears, get some wrenches, get a scissors jack, put it all in a duffel bag and throw it in the trunk, like everyone else does." So, here's my question - is that really what everyone else does? Am I the only person left that thinks these cars are meant to be driven, and their tools were to be used to work on them when necessary? (Gerald, do you have a ready-made sermon on this one yet?) Now, if someone has access to good info on the toolkit that came with a 330 GT or GTC or GTS late 1966 (around s/n 9161), I'd love to hear about it... From cak Wed Apr 1 23:14:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id XAA05071; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 23:14:51 -0800 Received: from WDanCase@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id 4QSWa04943 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 02:14:12 -0500 (EST) From: WDanCase Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 02:14:12 EST To: ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: tool kits Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 60 I have a copy of the 1965 330GT parts book that shows not only a drawing of the complete tool kit, but the sizes of all of the chiave (wrenches) in Italian, for your reading pleasure. If anyone would like a copy I can fax or mail this page. I think that collecting all of the pieces of the car, including the tools and literature, is part of the enjoyment of owning an old V-12. You can't just run down to Sears and buy a Ferrari tool kit, or order a shop manual from Motorbooks. It is a hunt; a quest, and you will meet lots of interesting people and have lots of interesting adventures along the way. My own tool kit isn't complete, and the tools that I do have aren't mint. They have that lovely patina of use, just like the car. And, I don't feel bad about using them if I need to. You have to use the grease fitting extension to lube the driveshaft splines, for example. My personal preference is to preserve the car and its accessories as a useable vehicle, rather than a perfect static display, but always with the idea of treating it with respect and with an eye towards long-term preservation, completeness and authenticity. Used well rather than well used. I find a well-preserved, unrestored car to be a rare and fascinating artifact. One comment on the posting about the differential lube for the 365. At at tech session about a year ago, I asked Carlo Durante at Alfa of Tacoma what he recommended, since 250 grade gear lube is unavailable. He told me that he quit using that stuff years ago, as the pinion bearings didn't get lubed until the diff really warmed up. Like in racing. So regular 85w-90 gear oil is used. This was confirmed with the local dealer (Grand Prix Motors) some years back. I have been using Mobil 1 75w-90 GL-5 gear oil in the diff and trans without leaks or other difficulties. Yes, the shifting is much better when cold. Has anyone else had good or bad experiences with gear oil in old Ferraris, or other recommendations? Dan 330GT 8855 From cak Thu Apr 2 00:08:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id AAA05211; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 00:08:20 -0800 Received: by INET-03-IMC with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <2D8QFVNK>; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 00:07:49 -0800 Message-ID: From: Jeff Littrell To: cak, ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: tool kits Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 00:07:23 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) My 2 cents. I used to use the lead hammer from the kit in my C4. Using it introduced some nice chunks of lead moved about and even sliced off. Certainly not pretty. Then I got smart and realized that fashioning a "hammer" out of some lead poured into a tomato paste can with a 1/2" dia galvanized pipe stuck into it not only saves my hammer but works a lot better too. I guess I wouldn't hesitate to use my wrenches and I don't carry a different jack (fortunately have never had to use mine) but I can say that a duffle bag w/ a set of craftsmans, a scissors jack and my trusty tomato can hammer are probably a lot more useful. Add to that the fact that I'd have to be stranded pretty damn good to take the beautiful new toolkit in my daily driver 355 out of the plastic it came in (other than to admire it or show it off). Of course, what can one really fix in an OBD II car like the 355 anyway? Like so many fine possessions, I don't hesitate to use it but I'm sure going to try my best to keep it as "new" looking as possible. Jeff Littrell 365 GTC/4 15505 F355 F1 111245 > -----Original Message----- > From: cak@dimebank.com [SMTP:cak@dimebank.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 4:57 PM > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: tool kits > > I just got off the phone with George Muenchinger; mentioning his name > earlier today reminded me that I had a note from him sitting on my desk > from last Fall, and I owed him a phone call.... > > Rewind a bit: while 9161 was being repaired, a couple of the trim rings > that finish the a/c vents in the center of the dash were lost. I > advertised in the FML looking for them, and George was one of the > people who contacted me and was able to provide me with one. We started > talking about toolkits - ours is there but apparently incomplete - and > I offered to send him photos of what we had. Ferrari toolkit lore is > apparently a thing with him, and this is a particularly difficult era > by all accounts. > > I also rambled on about my efforts to try to rationalize the various > factory documents into something that made sense ... I don't have it > all handy but can dig it out (Bob Weeks has heard it all before). > Basically, we ended up with two wrenches when we bought the car, and no > grease gun, and it appears that the factory parts book would have us > have a fairly complete set of wrenches. But just what "complete" means > is hard to fathom. > > Anyway ... I had a proposal that there should be a particular set of > seven wrenches in the car, which covers all the fasteners that are on > the car (in particular, it includes a 14mm wrench to fit the old-style > M8 nuts and bolts). > > The note from George contained the cryptic phrase "I think you may be > going about putting your toolkit together in the wrong way". > > So we talked. I have supplemented the tools that came with the car with > wrenches of the sizes I've guessed at; some are Beta 55s or the same > type as were there, some are Beta 55s with a different finish, and a > couple that I haven't found a modern USAG wrenches, which look awfully > similar. He seems to think that this is heresy. > > He also thinks that the jack we have is a Dino jack, despite the fact > that they didn't start making them until a few years later. (I find > this particularly hard to believe - the former owner reported > losing tools during service visits to the dealer, but not the jack; > he would have mentioned that, I'm sure.) > > I opined that my interest in the car is as a driver, not a concours > car, and my interst in the toolkit is primarily to have a decent tool > selection to repair the car on the side of the road if I need it. > > He thought I was nuts. "You're not putting together a toolkit to fix > the car, you're putting together a toolkit to make the car correct. > That jack is unsafe - and using it will scratch the finish on the jack > after you've had it refinished. Go to Sears, get some wrenches, get a > scissors jack, put it all in a duffel bag and throw it in the trunk, > like everyone else does." > > So, here's my question - is that really what everyone else does? Am I > the only person left that thinks these cars are meant to be driven, and > their tools were to be used to work on them when necessary? > > (Gerald, do you have a ready-made sermon on this one yet?) > > Now, if someone has access to good info on the toolkit that came with a > 330 GT or GTC or GTS late 1966 (around s/n 9161), I'd love to hear > about it... From cak Thu Apr 2 06:00:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00332; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 06:00:10 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust138.tnt5.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.44.138]) by sweden.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA04971; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 05:59:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3523C3FC.6D9E@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 08:59:40 -0800 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Kantarjiev CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: tool kits References: <199804020057.QAA03508@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Kantarjiev wrote: > > > Ferrari toolkit lore is apparently a thing with him, and this is a particularly > difficult era by all accounts. > > The note from George contained the cryptic phrase "I think you may be > going about putting your toolkit together in the wrong way". > > So we talked. I have supplemented the tools that came with the car with > wrenches of the sizes I've guessed at; some are Beta 55s or the same > type as were there, some are Beta 55s with a different finish, and a > couple that I haven't found a modern USAG wrenches, which look awfully > similar. He seems to think that this is heresy. > > He also thinks that the jack we have is a Dino jack, despite the fact > that they didn't start making them until a few years later. (I find > this particularly hard to believe - the former owner reported > losing tools during service visits to the dealer, but not the jack; > he would have mentioned that, I'm sure.) > > I opined that my interest in the car is as a driver, not a concours > car, and my interst in the toolkit is primarily to have a decent tool > selection to repair the car on the side of the road if I need it. > > He thought I was nuts. "You're not putting together a toolkit to fix > the car, you're putting together a toolkit to make the car correct. > That jack is unsafe - and using it will scratch the finish on the jack > after you've had it refinished. Go to Sears, get some wrenches, get a > scissors jack, put it all in a duffel bag and throw it in the trunk, > like everyone else does." > > So, here's my question - is that really what everyone else does? Am I > the only person left that thinks these cars are meant to be driven, and > their tools were to be used to work on them when necessary? > > (Gerald, do you have a ready-made sermon on this one yet?) > > I do but it is in my original equipment database (my brain) and available only verbally (get me wound up one day with a glass of single malt whisky). It would be best to NOT put it in print, libel laws and a litigious society being what they are. I'm really quite tired of the Concours fanatics who are, I believe, a minority of the Ferraristi. Unless you are a part of this oligarchy I see nothing wrong with using the tools in your Ferrari tool kit. What the hell were they put in the car for in the first place? Just to look at? But then, there are people out there who don't believe you are supposed to use the car, either. I quit judging the serious IAC/PFA style concours (there is no more "d'elegance" in their world) over ten years ago, and some day will tell the tale of why for one and all to read. Again, it is available verbally with the aforementioned libation. But it was as a result of that fisaco over a period of two FCA Annual Meeting that lead to the organization of the Ferrari Dinosaur Club (originally three "official" members but one was a back slider so now its down to just Gerry and Gerald). You may have seen our motto as it has been widely quoted: "We remember real Ferraris - When GTO's had twelve cylinders, Mondials had four cylinders, and Testa Rossa was two words!" Maybe this list would like to adopt same? From cak Thu Apr 2 06:36:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00426; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 06:36:32 -0800 Received: from localhost by verdi.engr.utk.edu with SMTP (SMI-8.6/2.8s-UTK.UTCC) id OAA12705; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:35:57 GMT Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:35:57 -0500 (EST) From: Erik Nielsen To: vintage ferrari Subject: Re: tool kits In-Reply-To: <3523C3FC.6D9E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > "We remember real Ferraris - When GTO's had twelve cylinders, Mondials > had four cylinders, and Testa Rossa was two words!" > > Maybe this list would like to adopt same? > I'd like to add one small comment. Include that "they were meant to be driven" and its fine with me. I am planning on cleaning up the 365 GT4 2+2 and fix all the little things with it and show it the Cavallino classic at somepoint. I'm not expecting to win much (but in its class you never know) but I want every one to see that when it comes down to it, it's just another mode of transportation. With the exception that this one game me a smile that has to be surgically removed. Gerald-I'll be taking the car to Talledega on April 25 to run on the motorcycle track. If you (or anyone else on this list) wants to drive it for a while, just let me know. Erik 18759 From cak Thu Apr 2 06:37:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00433; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 06:37:36 -0800 From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com Received: by isserv9.idx.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 852565DA.005047D6 ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:36:52 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IDX1 To: ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <852565DA.004CC2C3.00@isserv9.idx.com> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:36:16 -0500 Subject: Re: tool kits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I have a Craftsman toolkit that came if a plastic carrying case that I keep in the 330. It fits securely between the trunk deck and rear fender. I also carry a scissors jack, as years ago I had a really bad experience with an Alfa and its factory jack (essentially like those found in old Ferrari V12's). These cars are meant to be driven and used, but I don't use my toolkit because I don't care for the wrenches. I prefer 6-point sockets, box-end wrenches and sharp new screwdrivers, as they are less apt to damage fasteners. Wasn't there an article on toolkits in either Cavillino or Prancing Horse recently (written by Parker Hall maybe)? I seem to recall that it answered a few questions and raised a bunch more; I remember thinking of Chris when I read it because of his wrench questions. Photos in owners manuals and parts books are of questionable accuracy. They may be correct for the unit that was in production when the book was compiled, but they were rarely/never updated to reflect engineering changes that were made during a production run. The 330 books were updated to reflect major body and mechanical changes between Series I and II, but I'd really be surprised if the toolkit info was updated if changes were made. I believe that the toolkit photo was the same as that used in the GTE manual but were the toolkits actually the same? I'm not sure. I do know that the section on headlight adjustment in the owners manual for the series I 330 was borrowed from the GTE manual; the same procedure is used to adjust 4 headlights as for two -- hmmmm. From cak Thu Apr 2 07:50:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA00639; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 07:50:14 -0800 Received: by mail2-b.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2166.0) id <2D8RDXAP>; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 07:49:42 -0800 Message-ID: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD543CAD1E@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> From: "Michael Bradley (Meridian Partners Ltd.)" To: vintage ferrari Subject: RE: tool kits Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 07:49:41 -0800 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2166.0) The jack for my GTE fit into nice jack holes in the rocker panel. However, I had seen many other GTEs that were cracked around these holes from jacking. I dont know if was from normal stress or the fact that many rocker panels had been poorly repaired due to the omni present rust problem. Anyway, I always used the sissor jack approach. This had the added benefit of allowing the jack plugs which were prone to fall out to be more or less permanently attached. From cak Thu Apr 2 07:58:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA00664; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 07:58:31 -0800 Received: by INET-04-IMC with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <2D8QBQMH>; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 07:54:41 -0800 Message-ID: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD543CAD1F@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> From: "Michael Bradley (Meridian Partners Ltd.)" To: ferrari-vintage Subject: 250 Wt lube was RE: tool kits Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 07:54:37 -0800 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Guess that gallon of 250 I have been saving for my next V12 could go to the recycling center. Always was a challenge spooning it into the differential (half serious). With 250 wt I never had any leaks though. > One comment on the posting about the differential lube for the 365. At at > tech session about a year ago, I asked Carlo Durante at Alfa of Tacoma > what he > recommended, since 250 grade gear lube is unavailable. He told me that he > quit using that stuff years ago, as the pinion bearings didn't get lubed > until > the diff really warmed up. Like in racing. So regular 85w-90 gear oil is > used. This was confirmed with the local dealer (Grand Prix Motors) some > years > back. I have been using Mobil 1 75w-90 GL-5 gear oil in the diff and > trans > without leaks or other difficulties. Yes, the shifting is much better > when > cold. Has anyone else had good or bad experiences with gear oil in old > Ferraris, or other recommendations? > > Dan > 330GT 8855 > From cak Thu Apr 2 09:48:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01005; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:47:59 -0800 Received: from 207.211.62.156 (p28.hwts12.loop.net [207.211.62.163]) by ritchie.loop.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA25447 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:41:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abrent@loop.com) Message-ID: <35246B7A.3CC1@loop.com> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 04:54:23 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@loop.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: tool kits References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I am one of those un-fortunate ones who recieved a car with no tools whatsoever. The guy I bought if from felt sorry for me and threw in a well used lead hammer, non-ferrari, so I have no reason to save it for later. (boy I swore when missed the center-cap and hit a rim though). Anyway, I have gone the duffle bag way (paper/plastic grocery-bag actually) and if I ever buy the real thing I have to say it's more for the correctness than use. Particuarly due to the prices people have to pay for this stuff now. I think a set from Parker Hall, with the bag, could easily be on the wrong side of $1500.00. Wow. I guess I am lucky in a way however, it seems to be fairly well understood what is in the GTE complement so when I get to that stage it won't be too hard to figure it out. Andrew. From cak Thu Apr 2 09:48:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01008; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:48:08 -0800 Received: from 207.211.62.156 (p28.hwts12.loop.net [207.211.62.163]) by ritchie.loop.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA25456 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:42:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abrent@loop.com) Message-ID: <35246B87.7E1F@loop.com> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 04:54:36 +0000 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@loop.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Lead Hammers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, My last post reminded me about something I have been considering: using something other than a lead hammer to get the wheel's off. I have seen at least two alternatives advertised in fine publications available to us all, 1. Uses a torque wrench. 2. Uses a sort of T arrangement. And there is another one which is sort of an extension which gives the lead hammer a bigger target. Anyone got comments on any of this. Andrew. From cak Thu Apr 2 09:55:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01035; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:55:16 -0800 Received: by INET-05-IMC with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <2D8PW03R>; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:54:47 -0800 Message-ID: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD543CAD20@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> From: "Michael Bradley (Meridian Partners Ltd.)" To: ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: Lead Hammers Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:54:39 -0800 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Sorry if this has ben mentioned before. I always used the urathene(sp?) hammers with lead shot inside. Torque by experience. > ---------- > From: Andrew Brent[SMTP:abrent@loop.com] > Reply To: abrent@loop.com > Sent: Thursday, April 02, 1998 8:54 PM > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: Lead Hammers > > Hi, > > My last post reminded me about something I have > been considering: using something other than a > lead hammer to get the wheel's off. > > I have seen at least two alternatives advertised in > fine publications available to us all, > > 1. Uses a torque wrench. > 2. Uses a sort of T arrangement. > > And there is another one which is sort of an extension which > gives the lead hammer a bigger target. > > Anyone got comments on any of this. > > > Andrew. > From cak Thu Apr 2 10:26:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01459; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:26:52 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:26:52 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199804021826.KAA01459@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: tool kits My my, I certainly have started something here... Let's see, I'll try to answer lots of things in one message. Dan, I have a copy of the '65 parts book, too, with that same drawing. Unfortunately, that drawing is an *exact* copy of the drawing in the 250 GTE parts book. Equally unfortunately, it's obviously wrong (for our car, at least), since it shows the one-bag toolkit. Our car has two brown bags - a tool roll and a jack bag. I also have a copy of the 330 GTC parts book. One would hope that it would be closer - in fact, I would expect that I have exactly what was going into 330 GTC trunks, since 9163 was a GTC (formerly owned by our own Jeff Young, but he never had the tools). But the drawings in the GTC parts book don't line up with what I have, either. I can dig out my notes if someone really cares, but much of the "controversy" revolves around the inclusion or exclusion of a 13mm wrench. When 9161 was made, the standard for an M8 threaded fastener was a 14mm head. It wasn't until '68 or so that the ISO, JIS and SAE all agreed to use a 13mm head on the M8. (This is a problem for the Porsche crowd, too - it's nigh on impossible to find 14mm headed M8 fasteners.) So I don't think it makes sense for Ferrari to have included a 13mm wrench and excluded a 14mm. There are some other weirdnesses, too. I think I'm following Tom's advice here, in trying to deduce what's right... but deductions will not ever satisfy a concours judge. Not that we really care, of course - our car is a driver. I agree that collecting all the pieces of the car including the literature and tools is part of the enjoyment. Especially since we bought the car from the original owner and had such a good start (owner's pouch, unused spare set of keys, various order slips and bills of sale and dealer directories and radio manual/warrantee and manuals). That's why I've spent more money than I like to think about tracking down things like the 1966 yearbook (a reprint, alas) and the sales brochure, as well as trying to fill out the toolkit. But it's hard to fill out the toolkit if you don't know what's supposed to be in there! (I, too, have used the various grease extensions - in fact, I don't think it's possible to lube the rear springs or the U joint behind the gearbox without the factory extensions). Bob, you're right, someone wrote an article (might have been Parker, might even have been Parker and Gerald) about toolkits - but I think it was about Daytona toolkits... Perhaps my biggest gripe with George (other than the cognitive dissonance) is his apparent assumption that what I have is complete wrong, couldn't possibly be right, because he's an expert and I'm not. I may be jumping to conclusions here ... but my view of it is that our car is *very* original, carefully cared for by the gentleman who drove it away from the factory. Some tools disappeared over the years, but we also got vintage 1966 oil filters in the trunk of the car! If we've got a yellow post jack and yellow handled hammer and two-bag brown toolkit, that's probably what's supposed to be there. (Yes, Jeff, I understand your desire to keep the 355's toolkit in plastic. I keep boxes and wrappings of fine possessions that I use daily, too ...) Lead hammers. I used ours a couple of times. It's a small, misshapen blob of lead that barely stays on. I bought a much better hammer from British Wire Wheel one year at Monterey. But I never really liked swinging at the knockoffs and worrying about hitting the rim. So when we had the wheels repainted and the knockoffs rechromed, I bought one of the toolkits from Stainless Steel Brakes. It's a bit pricey for what you get, and I will at some point line the cutout with some silicone sealer, but I feel much more comfortable manipulating the knockoffs this way. Ferrari Dinosaurs. I like it. Is Gerry on the net, too? Maybe he'd like to play here. How about we modify it to "We remember real Ferraris - When GTO's had twelve cylinders, Mondials had four cylinders, Testa Rossa was two words, and people drove them to the track!" to satisfy Erik? Gerald, I hope we will meet some day so I can buy you that libation. I think that this group, or at least a subset of it, will be happy to carry on the tradition. From cak Thu Apr 2 11:11:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01739; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:11:54 -0800 Received: from localhost by verdi.engr.utk.edu with SMTP (SMI-8.6/2.8s-UTK.UTCC) id TAA14681; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:11:20 GMT Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:11:20 -0500 (EST) From: Erik Nielsen To: Chris Kantarjiev cc: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: tool kits In-Reply-To: <199804021826.KAA01459@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > "We remember real Ferraris - When GTO's had twelve cylinders, Mondials > had four cylinders, Testa Rossa was two words, and people drove > them to the track!" > Not to be picky, but: "We remember real Ferraris - When GTO's had twelve cylinders, Mondials had four cylinders, Testa Rossa was two words, and you drove it to the track, raced it, and drove it home!" Fair enough? From cak Thu Apr 2 13:22:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02137; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:22:27 -0800 Received: from WDanCase@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id 4XKHa14967 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:21:40 -0500 (EST) From: WDanCase Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:21:40 EST To: ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: tool kits Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Chris: You are right about the tool bag in the 65 parts book. Upon closer inspection of the drawing, it appears to be a combination jack bag/tool roll all attached together. 8855 has 2 bags, and the post jack is yellow. So now you have confirmation of 2 yellow post jacks in V-12 tool bags. Dan From cak Thu Apr 2 13:28:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02154; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:28:04 -0800 Received: from GT40MIRAGE@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id 4HHAa03578 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:27:02 -0500 (EST) From: GT40MIRAGE Message-ID: <44fadce1.352402a8@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:27:02 EST To: ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Fwd: tool kits Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_891552422_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 61 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_891552422_boundary Content-ID: <0_891552422@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_891552422_boundary Content-ID: <0_891552422@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: GT40MIRAGE Return-path: To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net Subject: tool kits Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:23:08 EST Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Don't get caught with the armchair experts of "Ferrari Tools" who do not own Ferraris. (statement not intended to slam George) The picture in the parts manual does not always represent the tools that belong in that model. Ferrari took a picture of the kit they were offering at the time the manuals were printed, Most, not all, 330gtc's came with 2 brown bags NOT the single black bag version pictured in the parts manual. Find an original car that has changed hands infrequently and attempt to deduce what could be right. The self proclamed experts that say the know, usually know even less. Non-Expert Tom Shaughnessy --part0_891552422_boundary-- From cak Thu Apr 2 22:43:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA04122; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:43:35 -0800 X-Sender: cak@bosphorus.dimebank.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:43:41 -0800 To: ferrari-vintage From: cak@dimebank.com (Chris Kantarjiev) Subject: tool kits Since we're going on about this, I dug out my notes about our toolkit. It's in two brown "bags" - a tool roll and a jack bag. The jack and the lead hammer handle are yellow. We don't have a wheel chock, though I have heard of cars that came with one (also in yellow). The jack seems devoid of a manufacturer's name, though the handle has the letter 'B' molded into it. There's a spare V belt in the jack bag (even though the car uses three different belts ... this is the one that drives the alternator and water pump) and a Pirelli tire tread depth measuring tool. The wrenches are Beta No. 55, Chrom Vanadium, with a rough finish; I have also seen Beta No.55 Chrom Vanadium with a very smooth finish (in fact, the tool roll has several of these, bought after we purchased the car). I've spent some time going over the various bits of factory documentation, trying to determine what actually belongs with the car: early 250 330 GTC 330 2+2 parts 8/9 8/9 8/9 10/11 10/11 10/11 12/13 12/13 12/13 14/15 14/15 16/17 16/17 16/17 18/19 18/19 18/19 20/22 20/22 20/22 21/23 21/23 None of these seem exactly right. In particular, our kit came to use with a 10/11 and a 12/14. This would enable a nice 8-23 kit in seven wrenches: 8/9 10/11 12/14 16/17 18/19 20/22 21/23 I have put together this kit; at the moment, the 8/9 and 21/23 are not Beta (a German brand and USAG 252, respectively). The "new" Beta wrenches are the smooth finish I mentioned above. I wouldn't mind finding these two sizes in proper Beta, especially the 8/9, but I'm not in a hurry. The factory claims (in a letter I received in 1996) that the drawing and list in the parts book is correct, even though it's obviously the drawing from the 250 2+2 parts catalog. In addition, it makes no sense, as the car is covered with 14mm hardware (the ISO standard for metric hardware changed in the late 60s such that the dimension across flats was standardized at 13mm; previously it had been 14mm). 13 and 15 are not useful sizes. 21/23 *are* useful, for filler plugs on the gearbox and tranny. The issue of screwdrivers is also open; our kit came with three (large and small flat, small Phillips); I've supplemented it with a second (large) Chrom Vanadium Phillips screwdriver, as the 330 parts book shows. The 330 GTC parts book shows three Phillips and two flat screwdrivers (not to mention a single combined tool roll and jack bag). To be honest, I'm not sure where the grease gun and extension would fit in the scheme of things, since the tool roll is already pretty full! But there is a large loop that seems to be for the grease gun. We don't have one of the long-handled spark plug wrenches; rather, there's a small ratcheting handle and a rubber lined spark plug socket. There's also one other socket (hmm, I don't have the size handy) for no obvious application. From cak Fri Apr 3 00:15:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id AAA04353; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 00:15:13 -0800 Received: from blockton ([12.64.134.103]) by mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA25780 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:14:40 +0000 Message-ID: <3524997C.51D18594@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 00:10:36 -0800 From: David Booth Reply-To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vintage Ferrari List Subject: Tools-n-stuff X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi List: Yikes. With all the traffic about tool kits and lead hammers, you'd think that Tim The Tool Man Taylor was on this list (sorry Europeans -- American tv reference/attempt at humor). Parker Hall indeed wrote a treatise recently on early and late tool kits and what they authentically ought to contain. Thought it was in Cavallino, but couldn't locate it there last night. Maybe Forza? No again. A better archivist than me will have to bear the responsibility for locating it. Suffice to say it was an exhaustively researched. But I think what's missing in this discussion of what's right and what's wrong for any aspect of these old Ferraris is that it all happened in ITALY, fer cryin' out loud. In the Sixties. It was a smallish factory run in a somewhat slapdash manner. When they ran out of something, there was the usual panic and someone eventually picked up the phone and in the best Latin operatic tradition, GOT something to use so they could ship the car and cash the check. If you need more proof, ever notice that the factory race cars of the period all seem to have the seats upholstered in the same fabric color and type as the mechanics overalls? With this as background, how can anyone possibly say definitively what a particular car did or didn't have on the day it left the factory, unless that person was there and took a picture? On the hammer issue, I've always felt a little foolish, I admit, but I use a dead-blow hammer (shot-filled Compothane). Works great, doesn't hurt the hammer or the knock-offs -- OR the wheel if you miss your aim. Best, Dave From cak Fri Apr 3 03:10:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id DAA04714; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 03:10:03 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust82.tnt3.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.17.82]) by sweden.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA13127 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 03:09:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3524ED9F.7490@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 06:09:35 -0800 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vintage Ferrari List Subject: Re: Tools-n-stuff References: <3524997C.51D18594@worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > But I think what's missing in this discussion of what's right and what's > wrong for any aspect of these old Ferraris is that it all happened in > ITALY, fer cryin' out loud. In the Sixties. It was a smallish factory > run in a somewhat slapdash manner. When they ran out of something, > there was the usual panic and someone eventually picked up the phone and > in the best Latin operatic tradition, GOT something to use so they could > ship the car and cash the check. If you need more proof, ever notice > that the factory race cars of the period all seem to have the seats > upholstered in the same fabric color and type as the mechanics > overalls? With this as background, how can anyone possibly say > definitively what a particular car did or didn't have on the day it left > the factory, unless that person was there and took a picture? > This is exactly right! Think about it. Ferrari was also always just one step ahead of the bill collectors--why do you think he finally had to go to Fiat to save the company? Otherwise Ferrari might well have followed the paths of Maserati and Lamborghini through periodic bankruptcies and bail-outs. To expand Dave's scenario a bit imagine Ferrari on the brink of producing the 330 GTC. Did they know they were going to produce 600 examples and so order, in advance, 600 identical tool kits from an outside supplier, tying up capital for several years? Or did they order a small batch, and when that batch ran out order another batch. Maybe another supplier offered them a better deal. Maybe the original supplier got a better deal on a different brand of tool, or maybe he couldn't get exactly the same material as the last time. Whatever the reason, the second batch might be different, and then the third batch different yet again. For example, the one car's tool kit(s) I claim some familiarity with is that of the 365 GTB/4 Daytona. Many original owners who swear by Enzo that their car still has the tool kit it was delivered with have given me a rundown on what is in the kit. They came in two completely different styles--the roll and the suitcase, and we have identified at least four (maybe more, I can't locate my notes right now) different brands of wrenches! The whole point was to supply tools with the car so the owner could do routine maintenance. They were not planning ahead for today's Ferrari concours world. Finally, to be quite honest, some of the stuff supplied in the tool kits was rather low grade (i.e. cheap). Again, Ferrari and/or the tool kit supplier was just trying to squeeze the Lira for all it was worth. From cak Fri Apr 3 09:10:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA00797; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:10:44 -0800 Received: from PaceCars@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id CDHEa04943; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:09:48 -0500 (EST) From: PaceCars Message-ID: Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:09:48 EST To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net, ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Tools-n-stuff Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 In a message dated 4/3/98 8:16:15 AM, Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net wrote: <> Dave, I also use a dead-blow shot-filled hammer. However, in deference to FCA concourse standards, I repainted it from its original dayglo orange to flat black. Of course, I have been banned from participating in Official Deadblow Hammer Collectors Society shows due to the non-original color... Harold Pace From cak Fri Apr 3 09:23:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA00828; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:23:04 -0800 Received: from PaceCars@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id CDBGa05946; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:21:53 -0500 (EST) From: PaceCars Message-ID: <485a5cf0.35251ab3@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:21:53 EST To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net, ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Originality (was tools) long Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 In a message Dave Booth wrote: <> Dave is absolutely right. When I had my Boano I saw at lest three different tail light assemblies on Boanos and I am reasonably certain at least two of them were original. Ferrari did not make any of their small trim items, and when the parts bin at Fiat or Alfa ran dry, they changed to whatever their supplier would make. Road and Track observed in a test of either GTE's or Pf coupes that they had seen instruments put into different holes on the dash (as delivered) on different cars in the same series. This behavior is true for all small-volume manufacturers. Ihave heard Porsche concours types expounding on what was original on 904s, when each one was different. Even Corvettes are not exempt. A few years back several Sting Rays were graded down at Bloomington ( I am told) for having generators with the wrong part numbers. The numbers were for GMC trucks. Indeed, they were the same specs, and Chevy had installed them when new when they ran out of generators with the right part number (who would have thought anyone would care?). What irony. You have to make your car non-original to get it certified as original. I used to have a 1968 Corvette L-89. It was a VERY late example, and had 1969 seats, grill and the Stingray emblems on the fenders like a '69, but the dash key like a '68. By now, it probably has been "restored" to non- original condition. A mechanic friend told me that "More classic cars are destroyed by restoration than any other cause." I think he's right. Harold Pace From cak Sun Apr 5 18:36:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA02356; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 18:36:02 -0700 Received: from localhost by verdi.engr.utk.edu with SMTP (SMI-8.6/2.8s-UTK.UTCC) id VAA00361; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 21:35:25 -0400 Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 21:35:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Erik Nielsen To: vintage ferrari Subject: 330 gtc Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII guys, does anyone know the correct plating finishes for all the brake components for a 330 gtc (larry benson's car to be exact)? thanks, erik From cak Mon Apr 6 08:48:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA00722; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:48:24 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA33142 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:47:49 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id SAA08433 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:47:46 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199804061547.SAA08433@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Re: Tools-n-stuff To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:47:45 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The whole point was to supply tools with the car so the owner could do > routine maintenance. They were not planning ahead for today's Ferrari > concours world. Disagree with the first part. To my understanding they included a large tool-set only to keep the motoring journalists from nagging about what was included with the car. According to the manual, the owner should not even wash the car himself... Somebody seems to have been quite concerned about what the press was writing about the road cars, since they enlarged the glove box and added an amp-meter into GTE after several road tests had pointed these to be the only dissapointments in otherwise a wonderful car. I'm also under impression that it was the press - not the sales figures - that forced them to change the "bifaro"-nose into single headlights on 330 GT 2+2... From cak Mon Apr 6 15:40:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA02208; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:40:32 -0700 From: Gregoire.Rossier@isrec.unil.ch Received: from pc.unil.ch (actually remote-acc-13.unil.ch) by unilmta3.unil.ch with SMTP-nomx inbound; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 00:39:47 +0200 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980407224153.00693330@pop-server.unil.ch> X-Sender: grossier@pop-server.unil.ch X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 00:41:53 +0200 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Obrist Dear Vintage list, As you may have seen, one of the most extraordinary Ferrari collection, the ex-Obrist, has been sold. As I visited Obrist's collection in 1993, there were other cars that were not mentionned in that sale. Among others were #2501GT, a dark blue 250 SWB lusso, #3983 and #3993GT, 2 250 GTE, #7437GT, a 275 GTB/C, #13707 a Daytona and #17995 a 365BB. Do you what happened to these cars???? I have 2 other questions: 1) when did the cars(and which ones) pass to the hands of Ecclestone? 2) I know that Ecclestone still owns #5 a 375F1 and #0003, a 246 Dino F1. But what about FL9002, the 555 SuperSqualo, #007, the 1512 F1, #0010 a 1966 312 F1, #008 a 312B2, #011 a 312B3, #029 a 312T2, #104 a F1/88C and a F1/87(s/n unknown), that were owned as well by Obrist in 1993?? Greetings. Greg From cak Mon Apr 6 16:29:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA02439; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:29:51 -0700 Received: from rsnodgrass.amazon.com (rsnodgrass.amazon.com [208.216.181.174]) by amazon.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA18986; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:29:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804062329.QAA18986@amazon.com> From: "Ryan Snodgrass" To: Cc: Subject: RE: Obrist Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:29:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 The entire Obrist collection was apparently recently purchased by Craig McCaw here in Seattle (brother to Bruce McCaw....you may know them from McCaw Communications which was bought by Spring a few years back) . Rumors I've heard range that the money that exchanged hands to be somewhere between 30 and as high as 50 million US dollars. I don't know if I am remembering right but these cars passed to Ecclestone because of a debt owed to him or some group he was on the board of. I may be way off on this one, as I said I can't remember. Ryan > -----Original Message----- > From: Gregoire.Rossier@isrec.unil.ch > [mailto:Gregoire.Rossier@isrec.unil.ch] > Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 3:42 PM > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: Obrist > > > Dear Vintage list, > As you may have seen, one of the most extraordinary Ferrari collection, the > ex-Obrist, has been sold. As I visited Obrist's collection in 1993, there > were other cars that were not mentionned in that sale. Among others were > #2501GT, a dark blue 250 SWB lusso, #3983 and #3993GT, 2 250 GTE, #7437GT, a > 275 GTB/C, #13707 a Daytona and #17995 a 365BB. Do you what happened to > these cars???? > I have 2 other questions: > 1) when did the cars(and which ones) pass to the hands of Ecclestone? > 2) I know that Ecclestone still owns #5 a 375F1 and #0003, a 246 Dino F1. > But what about FL9002, the 555 SuperSqualo, #007, the 1512 F1, #0010 a 1966 > 312 F1, #008 a 312B2, #011 a 312B3, #029 a 312T2, #104 a F1/88C and a > F1/87(s/n unknown), that were owned as well by Obrist in 1993?? > > Greetings. Greg > From cak Tue Apr 7 12:02:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA01596; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:02:38 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd63-115.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.243.115]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12073; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804071902.MAA12073@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Chris Kantarjiev" , Subject: Re: sigh ... maybe this is out of my control Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 13:04:07 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I support Chris' policy on this. When I send notes to both lists, I send two separate ones so that 'the other list' doesn't pick up on the Vintage address. On a different topic... the latest issue of The DuPont Registry has an ad for a 330 GT 2+2 s/n 8787 (Series II). This car is listed as having a 4 L (that's ok) 375 HP engine (!!!) It also notes that it is the only car with a gold emblem on the hood. Asking price...89,000US! Does anyone know about this car? ---------- > From: Chris Kantarjiev > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: sigh ... maybe this is out of my control > Date: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 7:21 PM > > Folks, please read this. > > I started this list as a reaction to all the noise on the "main" > Ferrari list. My goal was, and is, to keep the traffic quality > here very high. > > To that end, I decided early on that it should be an exclusive club - > a prospective member has to be proposed and seconded *to the list* > *BEFORE* being invited to join. > > Today, I've received two messages of the form "hi, you don't know > me but Joe said you've got this great list and I really want to join". > > I don't want to get these kinds of messages. > > If you have someone who you think would make a valuable > contribution (note, that is quite different from "would > be interested in watching"), please suggest her or him to the list. > If someone else is willing to second that person, I will be > happy to send an invitation to join. > > Yes, this sounds disgustingly elitist. I'm sorry - I don't know > any better way to do it. If you do, feel free to tell me (and > the list) about it. From cak Tue Apr 7 12:02:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA01598; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:02:47 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd63-115.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.243.115]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12150 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:02:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804071902.MAA12150@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: Subject: Essen classic car show (little Ferrari content) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:20:33 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am writing this on 5 April 5 to capture everything that's in my head, but may not get a chance to send it out until later. I spent a great day at the Essen, Germany Techno Classic Show, a VERY big show for classic cars and their restoration, maintenance, etc. The show was spread across several halls and we spent about 4 hours, but to do everything justice is a two day activity, unless you have the constitution to do this in one 6-8 hour session! Some magnificent restorations were to be seen, especially of the Jag XK 120/150 series, Porsche 356 series, and Rolls-Royce. As far as exotics, Lamborghini was the only one with an official presence, but was it impressive...5 Diablos, mixed coupes and roadsters, plus two Anniversary Countaches, and two Jalpas in great condition (at least visually). One was for sale at 60,000 DM...about 35kUS. As far as Ferraris...275 GTS (no S/N), 2 Boxers (365 and 512), a Mondial (sorry, Gerald, it had 8 cylinders), and 250 SWB S/N 3073. Also, a couple 308s. The same company that had 3073 had just sold and moved 250 SWB 2231 off the floor. 8-(. Other cars that struck me and which I took photos: Mercedes-Benz "Lorenz and Renkel" Silver Falcon. Made in 1988 with a 5.6 L V-8, it has the lines of a Porsche 550 RSK, to my eyes. Supposedly it will do 270 kph (165 mph). Hauser R-1. Looks like a Caterham Super 7, but a bit wider, with the BWM M series 6 cylinder. I forgot to write down displacement. Enclosed body BMW motorcycle from 1937. 500 cc motor. It held the motorcycle world speed record in 1937 at 280 kph! I missed getting a picture of a Porsche 904....too many people. Several good book dealers were there, most from Britain. I bought Massini's book on Vignale Ferraris, Rogliatti's book on Ferrari and Pininfarina, and Columbo's book on early Ferrari history (in English). I know Gerald has some of these for mail order also, but when I held them in my hands, I just couldn't seem to let them go!! One hall was primarily paintings and lithographs of old cars. A fellow named Hideki Yoshida had some wonderful acrylics of older Ferraris. I just couldn't figure out how to get a 3ft x 4 ft painting home safely to the US. BTW, this fellow's name was sort of familair to me, but I can't place it...any others know him? There were also several stalls with just bins of old parts for sale. Bob W: it reminded me of Stowe Auto show. There were two people with extensive parts for Becker radios, including the old Mexico model. I consider buying one just to have a spare for the C4. Never got bold enough to ask prices though...pity. Anyway, a great day and now I am dead tired. Bye for now. From cak Wed Apr 8 05:50:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA00288; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 05:50:45 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust76.tnt2.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.15.76]) by germany.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA14326; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 05:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <352B8EA5.68E4@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 07:50:13 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ryan Snodgrass CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Obrist References: <199804062329.QAA18986@amazon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ryan Snodgrass wrote: > > The entire Obrist collection was apparently recently purchased by Craig McCaw > here in Seattle (brother to Bruce McCaw....you may know them from McCaw > Communications which was bought by Spring a few years back) . Rumors I've > heard range that the money that exchanged hands to be somewhere between 30 and > as high as 50 million US dollars. > No, the ENTIRE collection did NOT go to the McCaws. Just a few choice pieces - for $40 million dollars. See the next issue of the FML (blatant commercial plug)! From cak Wed Apr 8 06:03:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00332; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 06:03:12 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust76.tnt2.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.15.76]) by germany.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA19256; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 06:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <352B9192.B84@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 08:02:42 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kare M A Pietil{ CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Tools-n-stuff References: <199804061547.SAA08433@happi.hut.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kare M A Pietil{ wrote: > > > The whole point was to supply tools with the car so the owner could do > > routine maintenance. They were not planning ahead for today's Ferrari > > concours world. > > Disagree with the first part. To my understanding they included a large > tool-set only to keep the motoring journalists from nagging about what > was included with the car. According to the manual, the owner should not If so, why does every owners manual I own carry extensive routine maintenance instructions. For example, the 330 GTC manual shows how to do everything from change the oil to adjust the valves to bleed the brakes to adjust the headlights etc., etc., etc. It even includes instructions on washing the car. To be sure, there are disclaimers galore (i.e. the car should be washed preferably by experienced people) but perhaps these disclaimers were more because of the lawyers than the journalists. From cak Wed Apr 8 06:48:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00413; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 06:48:49 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA177418 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:48:14 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id QAA16250 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:48:14 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199804081348.QAA16250@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Re: Tools-n-stuff To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:48:13 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > If so, why does every owners manual I own carry extensive routine > maintenance instructions. For example, the 330 GTC manual shows how to > do everything from change the oil to adjust the valves to bleed the > brakes to adjust the headlights etc., etc., etc. It even includes > instructions on washing the car. To be sure, there are disclaimers > galore (i.e. the car should be washed preferably by experienced people) > but perhaps these disclaimers were more because of the lawyers than the > journalists. I still assume that a typical Ferrari customer of the 60's was not capable or interested to service the car a bit himself. I believe that providing a large tool set had more to do with the car's luxury image than the routine maintenance issues. They also had to take into concideration the fact that rising number of cars were selling to places where no official dealerships existed. In these circumstances they just had to provide the basic maintenance data with the car so it was at hand when it was needed. (The Swedish dealership provided our car even with a *typewritten* translation with very accurate additions and corrections to the italian owner's manual...) To my understanding 2nd hand Ferrari owner tinkering with the failing carbs on the roadside has never played any role in company policy - and never will. They seem to be interested in selling new cars to people who buy the next one within two years or so - before the previous one has fallen apart... From cak Wed Apr 8 09:40:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA00893; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:40:09 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad22-123.arl.compuserve.com [199.174.164.123]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16302; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804081639.JAA16302@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Bryan Cashion" To: , Subject: Re: Obrist Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:04:54 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The latest Sports Car Market issue notes comments briefly on the sale of the Obrisy collection. It only notes that Bernie picked it up for a relatively low price 'several years ago', when the Obrist family could not make the loan payments. Bernie then sold the non-F1 cars the John McCaw of Bellevue Washington. Ecclestone kept the F1 cars. McCaw already had a significant collection of Ferraris and has added to it substantial now. SCM lists some of the historically important cars, but not the entire collection. In particular, McCaw now owns all three ex-works 250 Testa Rossas. Talk about a monopoly!! ---------- > From: Gregoire.Rossier@isrec.unil.ch > To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: Obrist > Date: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 5:41 PM > > Dear Vintage list, > As you may have seen, one of the most extraordinary Ferrari collection, the > ex-Obrist, has been sold. As I visited Obrist's collection in 1993, there > were other cars that were not mentionned in that sale. Among others were > #2501GT, a dark blue 250 SWB lusso, #3983 and #3993GT, 2 250 GTE, #7437GT, a > 275 GTB/C, #13707 a Daytona and #17995 a 365BB. Do you what happened to > these cars???? > I have 2 other questions: > 1) when did the cars(and which ones) pass to the hands of Ecclestone? > 2) I know that Ecclestone still owns #5 a 375F1 and #0003, a 246 Dino F1. > But what about FL9002, the 555 SuperSqualo, #007, the 1512 F1, #0010 a 1966 > 312 F1, #008 a 312B2, #011 a 312B3, #029 a 312T2, #104 a F1/88C and a > F1/87(s/n unknown), that were owned as well by Obrist in 1993?? > > Greetings. Greg From cak Wed Apr 8 11:42:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01299; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:42:32 -0700 Received: by mail2-b.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2166.0) id <2PXDFMWV>; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:41:59 -0700 Message-ID: <4D0A23B3F74DD111ACCD00805F31D8100435C3A1@red-msg-50.dns.microsoft.com> From: Bob Grudem To: "'ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com'" Subject: FW: Trip to Maranello!!! Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 11:41:50 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2166.0) I thought you might get a kick out of this... Keep in mind that the area where they manually straighten camshafts is, if memory serves me right, about ten feet away from the computerized milling machines that clean up engine blocks. > -----Original Message----- > From: Glenn S. Rittenhouse [SMTP:gsritten@gte.net] > Sent: Monday, March 09, 1998 6:53 AM > To: Bob Grudem > Subject: Re: Trip to Maranello!!! > > Bob, > > I just returned from my trip to Italy which included a trip to the > Ferrari factory. > > From your previous letter I asked about the procedure for straightening > camshafts. They have no written material available at the factory but the > guide showed me the area where this is done. The mechanic has a check > fixture that he places the camshaft into. He then rotates the camshaft > and checks the proper dimensions with a dial indicator. He marks the > areas that are off with a piece of chalk and then procedes to strike the > camshaft with a hammer to straighten it properly. This requires a lot of > skill and training. > > It seems like this is a rather crude way to complete the task, but the > guide said this is how they have been doing it for years and no one has > found a better way. > > Hope this is some help. > > Glenn From cak Thu Apr 9 10:26:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01046; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:26:52 -0700 Received: from GT40MIRAGE@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id 4LXWa03769 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:26:07 -0500 (EDT) From: GT40MIRAGE Message-ID: <973a2c03.352d04b1@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:26:07 EDT To: ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: PF Coupe "speciale" 0463 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 61 Does anyone know who owns this car in northern CA??? Tom Shaughnessy 714 366 6263 From cak Fri Apr 10 05:42:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA00495; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:42:44 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust229.tnt7.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.64.229]) by denmark.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA24184; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:38:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <352E12C2.521D@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:38:26 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: GT40MIRAGE CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: PF Coupe "speciale" 0463 References: <973a2c03.352d04b1@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael J. Kowertz, M.D., Fresno, CA owns 250 GT PF Coupe S/N 0463, one of four built with an unusual chassis (Type 513), Type 128 motor, and 410 SuperAmerica bodywork. GT40MIRAGE wrote: > > Does anyone know who owns this car in northern CA??? > > Tom Shaughnessy > 714 366 6263 From cak Fri Apr 10 10:20:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01330; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:20:01 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:20:01 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199804101720.KAA01330@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: another "no"... >From h.mergard@dialup.nacamar.de Wed Apr 8 04:57:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id EAA04500; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 04:57:46 -0700 Received: from authsrv.nacamar.de (authsrv.nacamar.de [194.162.162.197]) by mail.nacamar.de (8.8.7/8.8.8MB-19980212) with ESMTP id NAA28400 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:57:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hmergard (n0-04-107.frankfurt.netsurf.de [194.163.86.107]) by authsrv.nacamar.de (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA03773 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:57:00 +0200 (MET DST) From: "Harald Mergard" To: "Chris Kantarjiev" Subject: Re: an invitation Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:57:43 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd62e5$89cd2e00$4a56a3c2@hmergard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mail.nacamar.de id NAA28400 Status: RO Hi Chris thamks for your offer but I'm so busy with Maranello that i have no spar= e time bye harald -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: Chris Kantarjiev An: h.mergard@dialup.nacamar.de Datum: Monday, April 06, 1998 12:19 AM Betreff: an invitation >Dear Mr. Mergard: > >Your name has been mentioned as someone who might be interested in a >mailing list that I run, devoted to vintage Ferraris. I started this >list as a reaction to what I considered the very high noise level on >the "original" Ferrari mailing list. I own a 330 2+2 and am most >interested in the older cars and the company that produced them. >I wanted to have a place where I could talk about those things >with others that have similar interest (and more knowledge). > >So far, we have managed to keep the traffic relatively low and mostly >high quality, discussing serial numbers, history and maintenance for >the most part. > >If you would be interested in joining, please let me know and I'll be >happy to add you. > >Best, >chris > From cak Sat Apr 11 03:15:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id DAA05082; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 03:15:27 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust166.tnt2.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.15.166]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA08043 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 03:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <352F5EC4.32B8@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 05:15:00 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: McCaw Ferraris Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Ferraris owned by the McCaw Brothers Ex-Obrist Collection Ferraris recently purchased: 375 MM S/N 0322 315 S S/N 0684 250 TR 59 S/N 0766 330 P S/N 0820 330 P4 S/N 0856 312 PB S/N 0880 (Some say S/N 0888) 712 CAN-AM S/N 1010 250 GT SWB S/N 2417 250 GTO/64 S/N 5571 Other cars recently purchased (per the rumor mill): 250 TR S/N 0736 ex-Harrison 335 S S/N 0764 ex-Kato 315 S S/N 0656 ex-Obrist Other cars owned 375 MM S/N 0286 500 Mondial S/N 0408 250 TR S/N 0768 250 TR S/N 0770 330 P3/4 (412 P) S/N 0854 400 SA S/N 2861 250 California S/N 3293 250 GT SWB S/N 3695 250 GTO S/N 3909 250 LM S/N 5903 Any more? From cak Sat Apr 11 04:20:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id EAA05250; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 04:20:18 -0700 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p39.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.39]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23304 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:19:38 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <352F51A8.7338773@worldonline.nl> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:19:04 +0200 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: New Ferrari Website Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, The next months I'll work on a NEW and VERY LARGE Ferrari-website. We'll try to make a site which is better than ALL current Ferrari websites together ! First of all, we need to do some research to find out what people want. Because this is very important, I want you to do me a favor. My question : How can we make a website which will be the BEST of all? To answer this question, I'll really appreciate it, if you can answer these questions : (about yourself) * Are you a Ferrari owner? (yes/no) * To which category of 'enthusiastics' do you belong? - Category I : I just like Ferrari. - Category II : Ferrari means a lot to me. I'm a real enthusiast. - Category III : Ferrari means everything to me. I can't live without it. - Category IV : I'm doing a lot things which are Ferrari-related (e.g. I write articles, I'm selling Ferraris etc etc.) * Are you mainly interested in Formula One, in the 'normal' cars or in both? (about your interests) * Which are your favorite Ferrari-related websites? (and why?) (many people really liked www.ferraris.com, but why?) * What do you want to see on the BEST Ferrari website? (and why?) Other suggestions / comments / questions etc etc are welcome !!!! Many thanks in advance for helping me !! Edvar van Daalen PS. Later I'll tell you about my own ideas. First I want to see your own ideas. -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen From cak Sat Apr 11 10:24:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA00970; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:24:23 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd10-195.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.201.195]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA06621; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:23:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Bryan Cashion" To: , "GT40MIRAGE" Cc: Subject: Re: PF Coupe "speciale" 0463 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:54:38 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd64e4$67678300$d2e0aec7@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0079_01BD64BA.7E917B00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01BD64BA.7E917B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gerald: what can you tell us about the chassis that makes it different? Regards, =20 Bryan -----Original Message----- From: Gerald Roush To: GT40MIRAGE Cc: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Date: Friday, April 10, 1998 7:45 AM Subject: Re: PF Coupe "speciale" 0463 =20 =20 Michael J. Kowertz, M.D., Fresno, CA owns 250 GT PF Coupe S/N 0463, = one of four built with an unusual chassis (Type 513), Type 128 motor, = and 410 SuperAmerica bodywork. =20 GT40MIRAGE wrote: >=20 > Does anyone know who owns this car in northern CA??? >=20 > Tom Shaughnessy > 714 366 6263 ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01BD64BA.7E917B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gerald:  what can you tell us = about the=20 chassis that makes it different?
 
Regards,  =
Bryan
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Gerald Roush <ferrmktltr@earthlink.net>=
To:=20 GT40MIRAGE <GT40MIRAGE@aol.com>
Cc: = ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com= =20 <ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com= >
Date:=20 Friday, April 10, 1998 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: PF Coupe=20 "speciale" 0463

Michael J. Kowertz, = M.D.,=20 Fresno, CA owns 250 GT PF Coupe S/N 0463, one
of four built with = an=20 unusual chassis (Type 513), Type 128 motor, and
410 SuperAmerica=20 bodywork.

GT40MIRAGE wrote:
>
> Does anyone know = who=20 owns this car in northern CA???
>
> Tom = Shaughnessy
> 714=20 366 6263 ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01BD64BA.7E917B00-- From cak Sun Apr 12 07:41:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA00498; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 07:41:32 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust187.tnt3.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.17.187]) by germany.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA14611; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 07:40:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3530EE9E.4AE0@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 09:41:02 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bryan Cashion CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: PF Coupe "speciale" 0463 References: <01bd64e4$67678300$d2e0aec7@none.compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bryan Cashion wrote: > > Gerald: what can you tell us about the chassis that makes it > different? > > Regards, > Bryan The Type 513 chassis basically had the wheelbase of the 250 GT (i.e. 2600 mm) but the wider front and rear track of the 410 SA--1,455 mm front and 1,450 mm rear, whereas the normal 250 GT chassis had front and rear tracks of 1,354 mm front and 1,349 mm rear. Apparently only four such chassis were used on 250 GT's, S/N 0463, 0465, 0467 and 0469, all of which also received Pininfarina coachwork that looked more like a 410 SA that the PF-bodied coupes that were the prptotypes of the Boano series. From cak Sun Apr 12 17:48:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA01956; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 17:48:26 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust214.tnt1.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.12.214]) by sweden.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA03609 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 17:47:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35317CDF.1342@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:47:59 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: PF Coupe "speciale" 0463 References: <01bd64e4$67678300$d2e0aec7@none.compuserve.com> <3530EE9E.4AE0@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There was apparently a fifth 250 GT built with the Type 513 chassis, S/N 0461, the one-off 250 GT Boano Cabriolet. But unlike the four later cars it was apparently fitted with a Type 112 engine (i.e. 250 Europa GT) and not the new Type 128 engine. Contemporary reports also make a bid deal over the Type 513 chassis having "helical spring front suspension" but this had already been introduced on the last 250 Europa GT Type 508 chassis. > Bryan Cashion wrote: > > > > Gerald: what can you tell us about the chassis that makes it > > different? > > > > Regards, > > Bryan > > The Type 513 chassis basically had the wheelbase of the 250 GT (i.e. > 2600 mm) but the wider front and rear track of the 410 SA--1,455 mm > front and 1,450 mm rear, whereas the normal 250 GT chassis had front and > rear tracks of 1,354 mm front and 1,349 mm rear. Apparently only four > such chassis were used on 250 GT's, S/N 0463, 0465, 0467 and 0469, all > of which also received Pininfarina coachwork that looked more like a 410 > SA that the PF-bodied coupes that were the prptotypes of the Boano > series. From cak Mon Apr 13 02:53:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id CAA03222; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 02:53:29 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA323216 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:52:54 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id MAA29384 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:52:57 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199804130952.MAA29384@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Re: PF Coupe "speciale" 0463 (fwd) To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:52:57 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Contemporary reports also make a bid deal over the Type 513 chassis > having "helical spring front suspension" but this had already been > introduced on the last 250 Europa GT Type 508 chassis. What was chassis tipo 508B/513 used on 0503GT - a development chassis from 508 through 513 to 508B or...? From cak Mon Apr 13 05:56:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA00310; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 05:56:37 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust144.tnt7.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.64.144]) by italy.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA27568; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 05:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35321AA2.46C8@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 07:01:06 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kare M A Pietil{ CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: PF Coupe "speciale" 0463 (fwd) References: <199804130952.MAA29384@happi.hut.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kare M A Pietil{ wrote: > > > Contemporary reports also make a bid deal over the Type 513 chassis > > having "helical spring front suspension" but this had already been > > introduced on the last 250 Europa GT Type 508 chassis. > > What was chassis tipo 508B/513 used on 0503GT - a development chassis > from 508 through 513 to 508B or...? I do not know that S/N 0503 had a chassis type "508B/513". The factory Assembly Data Sheets, on the cover page, state "Telaio tipo 508/B". On the chassis page they have "Autotelaio tipo 508/B". On the Gearbox and rear axle page they twice state "Autotelaio tipo 508/B". Only on the motor page do they show "Autotelaio tipo 513." Perhaps a typographical error? Assembly Data Sheets are not without such errors. They do show a gearbox type "513 Porsche". However, neither 0463 nor 0465, the two Type 513 chassis cars for which I have copies of the Assembly Data Sheets, had a Type 513 gearbox! But the both had Type 513 rear axles, which 0503 does not. There are other type 513 elements shown on the Assembly Data Sheets for 0503. So what was the chassis used in 0503 GT? Probably a hybrid, primarily a 508 B chassis with some type 513 elements. Remember, the Type 513 came BEFORE the type 508 B, and S/N 0503 was the first 508 B chassis so it probably did have some elements of the Type 513 chassis in it, just as it had elements of other earlier chassis types. The part numbers reveal Type 166, 340, 342, 508 and 514 chassis elements From cak Mon Apr 13 14:16:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA01713; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:16:40 -0700 From: Gregoire.Rossier@isrec.unil.ch Received: from pc.unil.ch (actually remote-acc-32.unil.ch) by unilmta3.unil.ch with SMTP-nomx inbound; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:16:05 +0200 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980414211829.00675a4c@pop-server.unil.ch> X-Sender: grossier@pop-server.unil.ch X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:18:29 +0200 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: New Ferrari Website At 13:19 11/04/98 +0200, you wrote: >* Are you a Ferrari owner? (yes/no) unfortunately not yet >* To which category of 'enthusiastics' do you belong? > - Category I : I just like Ferrari. > - Category II : Ferrari means a lot to me. I'm a real enthusiast. > - Category III : Ferrari means everything to me. I can't live without it. > - Category IV : I'm doing a lot things which are Ferrari-related > (e.g. I write articles, I'm selling Ferraris etc etc.) category III of course >* Are you mainly interested in Formula One, in the 'normal' cars or in both? In both, but with preference with street cars of the 50's and 60's and GT and sport cars > >(about your interests) >* Which are your favorite Ferrari-related websites? (and why?) > (many people really liked www.ferraris.com, but why?) www.pirro.com >* What do you want to see on the BEST Ferrari website? (and why?) www.pirro.com + special subjects on very special ferraris (one off) + detailled ferrari-related meetings, clubs, races. > Greg From cak Mon Apr 13 14:16:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA01711; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:16:27 -0700 From: Gregoire.Rossier@isrec.unil.ch Received: from pc.unil.ch (actually remote-acc-32.unil.ch) by unilmta3.unil.ch with SMTP-nomx inbound; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:15:37 +0200 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980414211800.0069a850@pop-server.unil.ch> X-Sender: grossier@pop-server.unil.ch X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:18:00 +0200 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: McCaw Ferraris At 05:15 11/04/98 -0700, you wrote: Hi Vintage list. I would like to make additions >The Ferraris owned by the McCaw Brothers > >250 TR 59 S/N 0766 250 TR S/N 0768 250 TR S/N 0770 What?! is it possible that they own 3 of the TR59???? What does the police do? >312 PB S/N 0880 > (Some say S/N 0888) No, it's 0880. 0888 was owned as well by Obrist in '93, it was the red-yellow, now owned by Engelbert Stieger,Switzerland. >712 CAN-AM S/N 1010 I think this car was sold already in '96 or even before, because it was for sale by Symbolic in 96'-97' for 1'995'000$ and I think that the present owner is Paul Osbourne,UK....unless McCaw bought it very recently, I do not know. >Any more? Best regards. Greg. From cak Tue Apr 14 05:44:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA00296; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 05:44:56 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust111.tnt4.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.41.111]) by italy.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA06497; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 05:44:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3533844F.5E25@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:44:15 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gregoire.Rossier@isrec.unil.ch CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: McCaw Ferraris References: <2.2.32.19980414211800.0069a850@pop-server.unil.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gregoire.Rossier@isrec.unil.ch wrote: > > At 05:15 11/04/98 -0700, you wrote: > > Hi Vintage list. I would like to make additions > > >The Ferraris owned by the McCaw Brothers > > > > 250 TR 59 S/N 0766 > 250 TR 59 S/N 0768 > 250 TR 59 S/N 0770 > What?! is it possible that they own 3 of the TR59???? What does the police do? Buy an F50? Anyway, I believe this is what is known as trade bait! > > >312 PB S/N 0880 > > (Some say S/N 0888) > No, it's 0880. 0888 was owned as well by Obrist in '93, it was the > red-yellow, now owned by Engelbert Stieger,Switzerland. > 712 CAN-AM S/N 1010 > I think this car was sold already in '96 or even before, because it was for > sale by Symbolic in 96'-97' for 1'995'000$ and I think that the present > owner is Paul Osbourne,UK....unless McCaw bought it very recently, I do not > know. > > Best regards. Greg. Yes, I am pretty sure the McCaws bought S/N 1010 as it was being imported at the same time as the ex-Obrist cars and my information came from someone who saw the customs paperwork. But then said customs paperwork, he said, showed the S/N of the 312 PB to be 0888 while all the rumor mill sources said 0880 and I knew 0888 was NOT with Obrist/Ecclestone anymore. From cak Tue Apr 14 21:43:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA04303; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 21:43:10 -0700 Received: from PaceCars@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv14.1) id 4NOQa03521 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:42:13 -0400 (EDT) From: PaceCars Message-ID: <1ab4f967.35343aa7@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:42:13 EDT To: ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Los Angeles visit? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Coming to LA April 23-26 to cover car stuff for Kit Car magazine (show at Knotts Berry Farm). Any suggestions as to Ferrari/other neat car/race car places to visit? Also going to Las Vegas on 27th to visit Shelby American/drive Cobra/take photos. Any suggestions there (planning on staying at Imperial Palace to see car museum). Don't gamble, so suggestions welcome. Thanks, Harold Pace 330 2+2 From cak Wed Apr 15 09:11:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA00876; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:10:43 -0700 Received: by INET-IMC-01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2166.0) id <29S26V5P>; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:09:34 -0700 Message-ID: From: Jeff Littrell To: PaceCars , ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: Los Angeles visit? Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:09:27 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2166.0) April 26th is the Pacific Palisades Ferrari show. Not a real big one but has been a nice neighborly event in past 2 years. See http://www.bhs.com/fca/sw/Jun96/articl01.htm for a review of the '96 version. Contact Shin Takei (310) 471-0600 or Marshall Leib (213) 938-0802. Personally, I'll be racing in the SCCA National at Buttonwillow Raceway Park near Bakersfield (no Ferrari content). -----Original Message----- From: PaceCars [mailto:PaceCars@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 9:42 PM To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Subject: Los Angeles visit? Coming to LA April 23-26 to cover car stuff for Kit Car magazine (show at Knotts Berry Farm). Any suggestions as to Ferrari/other neat car/race car places to visit? Also going to Las Vegas on 27th to visit Shelby American/drive Cobra/take photos. Any suggestions there (planning on staying at Imperial Palace to see car museum). Don't gamble, so suggestions welcome. Thanks, Harold Pace 330 2+2 From cak Fri Apr 17 13:28:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA01853; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:28:44 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:28:44 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199804172028.NAA01853@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: progress, fuel pump... Spent some time this morning getting 9161 ready to come home - not permanently, but long enough to get to an expert to get her running well, and then give her a bit of exercise, she's she's legal again. Since she has not been started for 8 months, I did the whole drill: pull the plugs, squirt a little Kroil down each plug hole, turn the engine by hand (put her in gear and push). Then I pulled the ignition fuse, hooked up the battery, turned off the Autoflux, and cranked (and cranked and cranked) until I got some oil pressure. Great. Put the battery back on the charger. Pull off the air cleaner. Squirt carb cleaner down the main jets, pull out the idle jets and progression covers. Squirt carb cleaner down the idle jet holes until it runs out the progression holes. Lean out the three throats where the plugs showed sooty by 1/4 turn. Button everything back up. Replace spark plugs, careful that I hear/feel a click as each lead goes on. Moment of truth: install fuse, battery. Out of gear. Brake off. Autoflux on. Pump. Pump. Crank the engine and flutter the pedal... slowly, slowly, a hit, another hit, a sequence of hits, she's running. Now, I know the carbs are not set well - my own fault. In particular, the balance is off at idle, so when I rev her up and release, it takes a while for the revs to fall. I can live with that. When she gets on the mains, it does sound like all 12 are firing, but I know it's hard to tell, for sure. We're going to go pick her up tomorrow, so the plan is to move her now to a more accessible position. She's leaving a trail of some fluid... gas. I can look under and see that the mechanical pump is quite wet. I don't have the right tools along to deal with that ... which brings me to my question: I know that the mechanical pumps have a habit of leaking. I'm guessing that it's just a dried out fiber washer, and that tightening down will deal with the problem. At worst, I'll put some soap on it. I certainly can't drive her this way - all that gas trickling back on the exhaust would be a bad thing. Help me prepare for fixing this tomorrow - what else might be wrong? What should I try? Thanks. From cak Fri Apr 17 15:14:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA02236; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:14:33 -0700 Received: from inner-relay-1.Adobe.COM by smtp-relay-2.Adobe.COM or (8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA18407; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:16:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-333.corp.Adobe.COM by inner-relay-1.Adobe.COM (8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA18301; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dulcinea by mail-333.corp.Adobe.COM (8.7.5) with SMTP id PAA27246; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:13:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3537D550.2B4C@adobe.com> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:18:56 -0700 From: Jeff Young Reply-To: jey@Adobe.COM Organization: Adobe Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Kantarjiev CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: progress, fuel pump... References: <199804172028.NAA01853@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris -- 9163 didn't have any fiber washers. The banjo bolts had copper washers, and the diaphram is simply sandwiched between the two halves of the pump. If you can tell where it's leaking, then you'll be a step up. If it leaks from the banjos, or from the parting line, then tightening it up might help (either the banjo bolts, or the bolts around the circumference). If it leaks out the bottom (I think there's a grease hole for the pivot arm), then the diaphram itself is probably torn, which will require replacement. I just *assumed* the diaphram, which turned out not to be torn, but since it was apart, I put the new one in anyway. Once reassembled, it no longer leaked, but I expect tightening the circumference bolts would have done it. -- Jeff. From cak Fri Apr 17 16:01:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA02434; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 16:01:58 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 16:01:58 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199804172301.QAA02434@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: jey@adobe.com Subject: Re: progress, fuel pump... Cc: ferrari-vintage Thanks for the reminder of how it all fits together. I know there are fiber washers in some places and copper in others, but don't remember what's where. I often had the impression that it was mix and match, and that someone had replaced copper with fiber. WIth luck, all that is needed is to tighten things up. I will take my propane torch along to anneal any copper washer I find, if I end up disassembling. Anyone happen to remember what size wrench on the banjos? From cak Fri Apr 17 20:31:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA03628; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:31:15 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd52-040.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.232.40]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA14719 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:30:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: New exhaust Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 22:23:47 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd6a79$66a63e80$e2d5aec7@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 I am replacing the exhaust system on my 365 GTC/4 (exhaust only, not the headers). What are your opinions on the need to replace the hard rings or 'gaskets' (metallic - ?) that are between the various sections? There doesn't seem to be any thing visually degraded in the originals that I have. Regards, Bryan From cak Sat Apr 18 07:37:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA00547; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 07:36:56 -0700 Received: from WDanCase@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv14.1) id 4MNWa24124; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 10:36:20 -0400 (EDT) From: WDanCase Message-ID: <5dc1d747.3538ba65@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 10:36:20 EDT To: cak, ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: progress, fuel pump... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 60 Chris: 8855 did the fuel pump drip a few seasons back. Turned out to be a split gasket internally. Bill Rudd (now Maranello) had the rebuild kit. An unexpected bonus was that one of the old pump valves (like a heart valve) had disintegrated. The new valves really improved the fuel pump action on a hot day. Now I normally use the Autoflux just for starting. Before the pump valve repair, I had to use it to keep the fuel pressure up going up long hills. Dan Case From cak Sat Apr 18 11:53:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01219; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:53:36 -0700 Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:53:36 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199804181853.LAA01219@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: WDanCase@aol.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: progress, fuel pump... Thanks for the info. She didn't drip at all this morning. Inspection reveals that some if not all of the washers are fiber rather than copper; I suspect they were dry and shriveled. I will order some proper copper washers for future installation. My biggest worry was that the diaphragm had split and was pumping gas into the crankcase! Rebuilding the pump is probably not a bad idea, at that. I'llhave to look in the records and see if it was ever done. It's sometimes done the occasional drip or stayed wet, but never was that bad. I do remind myself to run the Autoflux in hot traffic, though... (Did you get a chance to inventory 8855's tool kit?) Anyway, she's out in the driveway now. Since she's all warmed up, I'm gnna take a crack at getting a decent idle - at the moment, she idles at around 2000 rpm and not on all 12 cylinders... From cak Sat Apr 18 15:56:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA01778; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 15:56:49 -0700 Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 15:56:49 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199804182256.PAA01778@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: WDanCase@aol.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: progress, fuel pump... Cool, I'm not a complete idiot. Last time I tried setting the carbs, I made a real mess - hard starting, lots of spitting, idle around 2000, and the revs dropped really slowly when the throttles were snapped closed. This has bothered me for the 9 months or more that she's been that way, mostly in storage so I couldn't do anything. I had at it again. *much* better; idles around 1000, responds properly when the throttle is shut, pulled nicely from 1500 in fourth gear, no crackling from the exhaust. We took a longish (20 miles or so) drive, and she might be a touch lean - seemed to develop a bit of a misfire. She's going to a pro on Monday, so I'll let him worry about the details. Last time I did this, I tried isolating carbs by backing out the idle stops. It never really worked right - I could see flow via that Uni-Syn on the carbs that were supposed to be off. So this time I tried the factory manual method of removing the idle jets. That worked a lot better - especially once I realized that 3/4 turn out on the idle mixture wasn't enough to run the engine. No matter how much "throttle" I gave it. Finally gave it about 1.5 turns, which worked great. Turned the throttle stops down to run about 850, set the mixture mostly by ear (response isn't as sharp as I'm used to with DCOEs), and synchronized. This is the first time I've used my new Synchrometer in anger; I bought it because it has a rubber nose that will fit the Weber throats much better than my Uni-Syn, which got hung up on the studs. I had a little extension to use, but it was never right. This thing is *great*. Calibrated in real numbers so you can do comparisons, very sensitive to adjustment, it just works. Well worth the money. I think last time I tried to synchronize the two throats of the carb withouth loosening the adjustable shaft - obviously that won't work, but it's a step that is missing from most of the procedures. I guess they expect the side-to-side synchronization to be perfect and not need messing with. Anyway, it worked out OK. On to carb 2, and then 1. I had a hard time getting the linkage right on 1; ther emay be some wear in one of the sector gears, because when it's synched at idle, it's off at 1500 rpm. But not by much. I called it good enough. Put in all the idle jets and couldn't get the idle back down, no matter how I backed out the throttle stops. Of course, at first I was only backing out one side! Figured that out but could only get down to 1500 or so. So I leaned everyone out by 1/4 turn, which pulled it down to around 1000 just fine. No pops, no cracks, no muss, no fuss. I feel *much* better. I'm particularly pleased by the fact tht the cooling system is doing its job for a change; we dug into that a while back and finally realized that the Lucas relay that controls the fans had developed a bunch of internal resistance, so the fan motors were only seeing 8V. Now, the fans cycle on and off, and the temp stays around 190. In fact, the car probably cooled too much, since the oil temp dipped below 140. The test drive was comletely successful. I'm so pleased... now we have to do all the usual shakedown things, small trips, etc. She goes back to storage again, but now there's some confidence that we can take her out for a trip if we want to! From cak Sat Apr 18 16:19:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA01976; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:19:36 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd73-124.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.253.124]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA24393; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:19:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" , "GT40MIRAGE" Subject: Re: New exhaust Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:11:41 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd6b1f$7acc27c0$7cfdaec7@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Tom: thanks for offer. I have sections already. However, do you have the headers? I have the "later" design on my car, where the header is wrapped in a heat shielding material, as opposed to other design where the heat shield is a separate piece that sits beneath the carbs and above the unshielded headers. Regards, Bryan -----Original Message----- From: GT40MIRAGE To: cashion@sprynet.com Date: Saturday, April 18, 1998 2:25 PM Subject: Re: New exhaust >i have used tail sections in very good cond > >tom shaughnessy From cak Sat Apr 18 16:23:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA02012; Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:23:14 -0700 Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 16:23:14 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199804182323.QAA02012@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: GT40MIRAGE@aol.com, cashion@sprynet.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: New exhaust I wonder if it makes sense to send your headers off to be ceramic coated? From cak Sun Apr 19 14:37:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA01533; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:37:44 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd19-130.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.210.130]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA17626; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:37:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Chris Kantarjiev" , , Subject: Re: New exhaust Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:32:22 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd6bda$a3dc2c80$82d2afce@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 My headers are wrapped in a metal shroud that contains a glass fiber insulation. The only reason I know about the insulation is that one of the shrouds is falling apart a bit and the insulation is exposed. Would the ceramic coating act as reasonable insulation? Could I completely remove the shroud, coat the headers, and then re-install them without any other insulation? Regards, Bryan -----Original Message----- From: Chris Kantarjiev To: GT40MIRAGE@aol.com ; cashion@sprynet.com ; ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Date: Saturday, April 18, 1998 6:24 PM Subject: Re: New exhaust >I wonder if it makes sense to send your headers off to be ceramic coated? From cak Mon Apr 20 08:43:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA00779; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:43:32 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA00294 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:42:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199804201542.KAA00294@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> Received: from bal-md6-01.ix.netcom.com(199.183.205.193) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma000262; Mon Apr 20 10:42:35 1998 Subject: Re: progress, fuel pump... Date: Mon, 20 Apr 98 11:45:24 -0400 From: Bruce Rippey cc: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Chris asked: >Anyone happen to remember what size wrench on the banjos? The banjos on my 330's fuel pump are 17mm, but those on the upper fittings (filter, carbs) are smaller. Larger than 15mm; maybe 5/8 inch?? -Bruce From cak Mon Apr 20 09:46:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01091; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:46:44 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:46:44 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199804201646.JAA01091@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: GT40MIRAGE@aol.com, cak@sprynet.com, cashion@sprynet.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: New exhaust That's my thinking, yes - you could coat the headers (call Jet-Hot or MCCI to see what they say about doing used metal, but I think they will take it, just not guarantee it) for insulation purposes, and then fab up (or not) a shroud to look like the original. But I haven't done this for a Ferrari. I have used Jet-Hot with great sucess on a couple of British cars. From cak Wed Apr 22 07:28:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA00609; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:28:30 -0700 From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com Received: by isserv9.idx.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 852565EE.004F72B8 ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:27:47 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IDX1 To: ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <852565EE.004E4BF4.00@isserv9.idx.com> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:27:31 -0400 Subject: Life is GOOD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: ferrari-vintage Hi Everyone, Spring has come to Vermont and I drove the 330 to work today - 4 miles of country road plus 20 miles of rural interstate. All in all not a bad way to start the day. We both still have smiles on our faces and the 330 doesn't seem to mind the "Klunker Parking Only" sign that she's sitting in front of. Sue an I went to NY City this past weekend and saw "ART" with Alan Alda. If you have the chance and like Alda, you have to see this play. Ciao, Bob From cak Wed Apr 22 08:48:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA00829; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:48:53 -0700 Received: by INET-03-IMC with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:48:16 -0700 Message-ID: From: Jeff Littrell To: Robert_Weeks@idx.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: Life is GOOD Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:48:12 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Yes, life is good. It's that time of year I guess, when a young man's heart turns to horsepower. I have to admit that while weather isn't a factor, I hadn't had 15505 out for a sgnificant jaunt in a long time (records show last fill up in August 97). She'd had a couple 'round the blocks to keep her from languishing but time hadn't permitted any significant drives. (Yes, I know, not enough time to drive the Ferrari???). But... I drove her Sunday on a couple spirited 130 MPH runs and a couple 110 MPH onramps. She's still fun, especially through those overpass tunnels. Drove her to work yesterday and ook a friend who owns 4 vehicles, all Italian (Mondial Cab, 2 Fiat X1/9s, and a Ducatti) for a drive at lunch. He commented that he had never heard a car that sounded so good before. Not only that, but, being a Fiat driver, he couldn't believe that everything in a 25+ year old car actually worked! 60 degree V-12s rule, Jeff Littrell 365 GTC/4 #15505 355 F1 B #ZFFXR41A6W0111245 -----Original Message----- From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com [mailto:Robert_Weeks@idx.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 1998 7:28 AM To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Subject: Life is GOOD To: ferrari-vintage Hi Everyone, Spring has come to Vermont and I drove the 330 to work today - 4 miles of country road plus 20 miles of rural interstate. All in all not a bad way to start the day. We both still have smiles on our faces and the 330 doesn't seem to mind the "Klunker Parking Only" sign that she's sitting in front of. Sue an I went to NY City this past weekend and saw "ART" with Alan Alda. If you have the chance and like Alda, you have to see this play. Ciao, Bob From cak Sat May 2 23:04:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id XAA02794; Sat, 2 May 1998 23:04:41 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA111432 for ; Sun, 3 May 1998 09:04:07 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id JAA14308 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sun, 3 May 1998 09:04:17 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199805030604.JAA14308@happi.hut.fi> Subject: It's me with my favourite subject again... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 09:04:17 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just wondering the histories of the famous Finnish racing cars again: 750 Monza 0568M: Mergard's Pirro-site claims that this car has been sold to Abba Cogan in Vancouver Canada in 1991 and that the car would have been in Florida for restoration in 1996. Well - I saw the car in Helsinki GP 60 years bash in May 1992 and in late 1994 or early 1995 it was sitting in a local cafe just a few blocks from where I live... Yesterday I heard that this car would be in for service and minor tidying up in UK and that it would be returned to the Finnish owner in Helsinki later this spring. According to the source the perfect original car still carrying it 1957 livery will never be either sold abroad or restored. Now I don't know for 100% who to belive - any second opinions on either 0568M or the Monza owned by Abba Cogan. I suggest that the Cogan car could carry another chassis number...? 250 TESTA ROSSA 0724TR: According to Pirro-site this car has been restored. Any additional info available? (In 1958 Askolin sold this car through Bjurstrom and Chinetti to A. Connell who replaced the engine with Chevy V-8. The inoperative car was owned for a long time by W. Murphney in Texas. I heard that the nose had been modified in some stage...) The entry in Pirro-site is a mess with much of info that has nothing to do with this car... 250 GT TOUR DE FRANCE 0723GT: I'm still interested in all rumours according to this case. I know very well where these false rumours started out (burning in Spa, converting into Rhd, being detsroyed... etc.) Why does the Strakey-book on TdF's claim that this car would have been displayed in Schlumpf-collection in 1996? Is this all wrong, another number or a reconstruction...? In May 1996 the genuine car was sitting next to our GTE in a local event, that's for sure. Gerald, you wouldn't happen to have factory assembly sheets or any inside info on this car? (I'm starting to feel like an old recordplayer going through these cases over and over again but I'm dying to know...) Regards, Kare From cashion@sprynet.com Sun May 3 05:02:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id EAA03466; Sun, 3 May 1998 04:58:16 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (das1-18.hou.compuserve.com [206.175.169.18]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA00731; Sun, 3 May 1998 04:57:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Kare M A Pietil{" , "Ferrari Vintage" Subject: Re: It's me with my favourite subject again... Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 06:46:30 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd7689$1d75d2e0$12a9afce@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 I'll add another car to Kare's list. The 25 April issue of FML has an ad from Talacrest cars in the UK. They have 340 America Vignale Spyder 0138 AM for sale. Listed as undergoing a complete restoration. Massini's book on Vignale lists this car as stolen from Lord Brocket in 1991 and whereabouts unknown. Was this one of the cars that was, in fact, 'stolen' by Brocket himself (allegedly)? What's the history of the car since 1991 that brings it to Talacrest? (Not nearly as interesting as Kare's and probably much easier to answer!) Regards, Bryan -----Original Message----- From: Kare M A Pietil{ To: Ferrari Vintage Date: Sunday, May 03, 1998 1:06 AM Subject: It's me with my favourite subject again... >Just wondering the histories of the famous Finnish racing cars again: > >750 Monza 0568M: > >Mergard's Pirro-site claims that this car has been sold to Abba Cogan >in Vancouver Canada in 1991 and that the car would have been in Florida >for restoration in 1996. > >Well - I saw the car in Helsinki GP 60 years bash in May 1992 and in >late 1994 or early 1995 it was sitting in a local cafe just a few blocks >from where I live... > >Yesterday I heard that this car would be in for service and minor tidying >up in UK and that it would be returned to the Finnish owner in Helsinki >later this spring. According to the source the perfect original car still >carrying it 1957 livery will never be either sold abroad or restored. > >Now I don't know for 100% who to belive - any second opinions on either >0568M or the Monza owned by Abba Cogan. I suggest that the Cogan car could >carry another chassis number...? > >250 TESTA ROSSA 0724TR: > >According to Pirro-site this car has been restored. Any additional info >available? (In 1958 Askolin sold this car through Bjurstrom and Chinetti >to A. Connell who replaced the engine with Chevy V-8. The inoperative car >was owned for a long time by W. Murphney in Texas. I heard that the nose >had been modified in some stage...) > >The entry in Pirro-site is a mess with much of info that has nothing to >do with this car... > >250 GT TOUR DE FRANCE 0723GT: > >I'm still interested in all rumours according to this case. I know very >well where these false rumours started out (burning in Spa, converting >into Rhd, being detsroyed... etc.) > >Why does the Strakey-book on TdF's claim that this car would have been >displayed in Schlumpf-collection in 1996? Is this all wrong, another >number or a reconstruction...? In May 1996 the genuine car was sitting >next to our GTE in a local event, that's for sure. > >Gerald, you wouldn't happen to have factory assembly sheets or any >inside info on this car? > >(I'm starting to feel like an old recordplayer going through these cases > over and over again but I'm dying to know...) > >Regards, > >Kare From cak Sun May 3 07:16:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA00477; Sun, 3 May 1998 07:16:06 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust168.tnt5.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.44.168]) by germany.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA10424; Sun, 3 May 1998 07:15:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <354CA629.171B@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 10:15:21 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bryan Cashion CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: It's me with my favourite subject again... References: <01bd7689$1d75d2e0$12a9afce@none.compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You're right, this one I can answer without consulting any records. Car was indeed one of those involved in the Lord Brockett scam. No need to be politically corrrect with the "allegedly". Lord B. is in jail for the crome. See FML Vol. 22 Mo. 22 Once the scam was uncovered this is one of the cars that was recovered. It was in very sad shape, having been partially dismantled and the body cut off. The question now is, to what form is it going to be restored? When it was in the USA it was pretty much a posh cabriolet, even down to a dome light on the convertible top. Lord Brockett somewhat customized it to make it "racier". I bet it gets "restored" more as a competition 340 America a la Gil Nickel's S/N 0140 and less as its original posh cabriolet configuration. Bryan Cashion wrote: > > I'll add another car to Kare's list. The 25 April issue of FML has an ad > from Talacrest cars in the UK. They have 340 America Vignale Spyder 0138 AM > for sale. Listed as undergoing a complete restoration. > > Massini's book on Vignale lists this car as stolen from Lord Brocket in 1991 > and whereabouts unknown. Was this one of the cars that was, in fact, > 'stolen' by Brocket himself (allegedly)? What's the history of the car since > 1991 that brings it to Talacrest? > > (Not nearly as interesting as Kare's and probably much easier to answer!) > > Regards, > Bryan > From cak Mon May 4 01:55:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id BAA03177; Mon, 4 May 1998 01:55:30 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA293286 for ; Mon, 4 May 1998 11:54:48 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id LAA17406 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 4 May 1998 11:54:58 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199805040854.LAA17406@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Re: It's me with my favourite subject again... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:54:58 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Massini's book on Vignale lists this car as stolen from Lord Brocket in 1991 > and whereabouts unknown. Was this one of the cars that was, in fact, > 'stolen' by Brocket himself (allegedly)? What's the history of the car since > 1991 that brings it to Talacrest? According to a newspaper article Brocket was caught because chassis parts (or complete chassis?) was found with rear end carrying number 0138A. He also seems to have preserved some irreplaceable detail parts, mainly destroying the bodywork - that would only take some 20-60t USD to manufacture if things started to get better and the "stolen remains" could be found, "returned" to Brocket and car reconstructed. I have no idea if he took any precautions to be able to revive the two other Ferraris - do any remains survive? (In any case someone may come up with a reconstructions and a few years later nobody seems to remember what happened to the original cars - and merrily believe that the cars were just found in a stranded shed deep down in Venezuela...) From cak Mon May 4 03:11:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id DAA03333; Mon, 4 May 1998 03:11:32 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust75.tnt2.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.15.75]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA19506; Mon, 4 May 1998 03:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <354DBE65.5E8D@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 06:11:01 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kare M A Pietil{ CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: It's me with my favourite subject again... References: <199805030604.JAA14308@happi.hut.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > 750 Monza 0568M: > Yes, I too heard the rumors that this car was sold to Abba Kogan (correct spelling) but as late as September of 1997 it was being offered to a good friend of mine by an agent who claimed to be working for the Finnish owner, a Mr. A. Bremer. He chose to NOT buy the car but I don't know for sure why. Seems there were certain misrepresentations and it was quite expensive.> Mergard's Pirro-site claims that this car has been sold to Abba Cogan > in Vancouver Canada in 1991 and that the car would have been in Florida > for restoration in 1996. > > Well - I saw the car in Helsinki GP 60 years bash in May 1992 and in > late 1994 or early 1995 it was sitting in a local cafe just a few blocks from where I live... > > Yesterday I heard that this car would be in for service and minor tidying up in UK and that it would be returned to the Finnish owner in Helsinki later this spring. According to the source the perfect original car still carrying it 1957 livery will never be either sold abroad or restored. > > Now I don't know for 100% who to belive - any second opinions on either > 0568M or the Monza owned by Abba Cogan. I suggest that the Cogan car could > carry another chassis number...? > > 250 TESTA ROSSA 0724TR: > Car has been with Dr. Willis Murphey in Fort Worth, TX for years. It was not inoperative. He raced it in SCCA racing with an American V-8 motor. A number of years ago he set out to restore it to Ferrari V-12 power and was able to piece together a full TR-spec engine. It depends on your definition of "restored". It was certainly not restored to Pebble Beach standards, but it is back together, 100% Ferrari, but looks like it should--like an old Ferrari race car! > According to Pirro-site this car has been restored. Any additional info > available? (In 1958 Askolin sold this car through Bjurstrom and Chinetti > to A. Connell who replaced the engine with Chevy V-8. The inoperative car > was owned for a long time by W. Murphney in Texas. I heard that the nose > had been modified in some stage...) > > The entry in Pirro-site is a mess with much of info that has nothing to > do with this car... > > 250 GT TOUR DE FRANCE 0723GT: > Well, I too have heard all the rumors, but don't have any real inside information. It seems there was a TdF burned in Belgium but everytime somebody gives it a chassis number the owner of that car says "no, it wasn't my car that was burned there!" > No, I don't have the build sheets. As for Starkey's claim, I have no idea where he got his ideas as the cars in the ex-Schlumpf collection have been well documented. I'm still interested in all rumours according to this case. I know very > well where these false rumours started out (burning in Spa, converting > into Rhd, being detsroyed... etc.) > > Why does the Strakey-book on TdF's claim that this car would have been > displayed in Schlumpf-collection in 1996? Is this all wrong, another > number or a reconstruction...? In May 1996 the genuine car was sitting > next to our GTE in a local event, that's for sure. > > Gerald, you wouldn't happen to have factory assembly sheets or any > inside info on this car? > > (I'm starting to feel like an old recordplayer going through these cases > over and over again but I'm dying to know...) > > Regards, > > Kare From cak Mon May 4 09:28:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA00774; Mon, 4 May 1998 09:28:37 -0700 Received: by INET-03-IMC with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Mon, 4 May 1998 09:28:05 -0700 Message-ID: From: Jeff Littrell To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net, Bryan Cashion Cc: ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: It's me with my favourite subject again... Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:28:01 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Since we're talking about Lord Brocket. I thought I'd add this other tidbit I came across. It seems that Lord Brocket was not only misrepresented his cars, he also misrepresented himself! While a good friend of mine swears that when Lord Brocket would call he would say "this is Charles Brocket" it turns out that Charles's surname is Nall-Cain, not Brocket! Per Burkes' Peerage, his family is not related to the Brockets in any way. He did own Brocket Hall and was titled as Lord Brocket but he was not "Charles Brocket" as he passed himself off to be. Jeff Littrell -----Original Message----- From: Gerald Roush [mailto:ferrmktltr@earthlink.net] Sent: Sunday, May 03, 1998 10:15 AM To: Bryan Cashion Cc: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Subject: Re: It's me with my favourite subject again... You're right, this one I can answer without consulting any records. Car was indeed one of those involved in the Lord Brockett scam. No need to be politically corrrect with the "allegedly". Lord B. is in jail for the crome. See FML Vol. 22 Mo. 22 Once the scam was uncovered this is one of the cars that was recovered. It was in very sad shape, having been partially dismantled and the body cut off. The question now is, to what form is it going to be restored? When it was in the USA it was pretty much a posh cabriolet, even down to a dome light on the convertible top. Lord Brockett somewhat customized it to make it "racier". I bet it gets "restored" more as a competition 340 America a la Gil Nickel's S/N 0140 and less as its original posh cabriolet configuration. Bryan Cashion wrote: > > I'll add another car to Kare's list. The 25 April issue of FML has an ad > from Talacrest cars in the UK. They have 340 America Vignale Spyder 0138 AM > for sale. Listed as undergoing a complete restoration. > > Massini's book on Vignale lists this car as stolen from Lord Brocket in 1991 > and whereabouts unknown. Was this one of the cars that was, in fact, > 'stolen' by Brocket himself (allegedly)? What's the history of the car since > 1991 that brings it to Talacrest? > > (Not nearly as interesting as Kare's and probably much easier to answer!) > > Regards, > Bryan > From cak Thu May 7 08:07:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA00746; Thu, 7 May 1998 08:07:05 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA243338 for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 18:06:25 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id SAA29332 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Thu, 7 May 1998 18:06:36 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199805071506.SAA29332@happi.hut.fi> Subject: 0568M To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 18:06:36 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My following message quoted below as I had to rescue it directly from screen after a system collapse... > Case cleared: > > According to Harald Mergard the Kogan car is 0526M - interesting car > locally that too; it was raced several times in Helsinki by Swedish > owner Gunnar Carlsson - a colourfull person who crashed into a tree > in 1955 Swedish GP and receiving most bruises when two separate > girlfriends visited him in a local hospital... > > (See colour picture of 0526M taken in 1956 Helsinki GP on Pirro-site...) > > According to Harald, 0568M has been offered through Cottingham in UK > by Swedish dealer Carlos Monteverde, who claims he bought the car for > 2 years ago. > > I have no idea who this "A. Bremer" mentioned earlier might be. My wild > guess is that Robert Paulig still owns the car, but he doesn't want to > be recognized as the owner - nationally or internationally. High price > might indicate that he wants to follow the market situation by offering > the car with no serious intention to sell. There's no way of actually > finding out for sure... Few years back he anonymously offered his s.2 > cabriolet for astronomical price of 1,000,000 fmk = 200,000 USD. > > A lot of money for a car with an engine assembled from bits and pieces. > > Can anyone help with the history of this cab? S/n 2011. I know that the > engine is in 250GTE/GTO replica 2201 and that the current engine is > built using an unknown block and timing case from 2201 - both renumbered > to have counterfeit matching numbers. > > The connection with 2201 might indicate that the car went through Lyle > Tanner - I don't know. To my understanding car was imported from > Canada in 1988 to Robert Paulig and it has recently changed hands to > Peter Fazer... From cak Fri May 8 12:26:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA02289; Fri, 8 May 1998 12:26:22 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA105510 for ; Fri, 8 May 1998 22:25:43 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id WAA02847 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Fri, 8 May 1998 22:25:56 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199805081925.WAA02847@happi.hut.fi> Subject: New info on GTE-dashboard... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 22:25:55 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit According to remarks in Listino Parti Ricambio (GTE parts catalog) approximately 300 first cars were manufactured with series 1 dashboards, next 50 cars with similar dash with enlarged glovebox and from then on with new revised dashboard... In serial numbers this would mean something like: 1287-3071: Early type dashboard 3075-3219: "Interim" dashboard 3225-4961: Late type dashboard To support this I can say that our car (3197) has the enlarged glovebox with old type dashboard - and the register says about 3177 as follows: "Christensen believed car was an interim between series 1 and 2 (6/Nov/61-16/Jan/62)" Which I guess might indicate a similar dashboard(?) - (and what else?) Where did this Christensen-character come up with these dates and does he probably have more info on subject? Possible to track down some cars to be sure of ch. numbers were changes took place? Any further info on subject, anyone? Am I in need of some medical attention if I feel that such small discoveries really make the world a better place to live...? From cak Sun May 10 20:19:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA02385; Sun, 10 May 1998 20:19:34 -0700 Received: from localhost by verdi.engr.utk.edu with SMTP (SMI-8.6/2.8s-UTK.UTCC) id XAA07328; Sun, 10 May 1998 23:18:53 -0400 Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 23:18:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Erik Nielsen To: vintage ferrari Subject: shocks questions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII two quick items: where can i get 4 koni triangular stickers? and does anyone have the instructions for the koni shocks for a 330 gtc? thanks, erik From cak Mon May 11 10:19:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA00970; Mon, 11 May 1998 10:19:20 -0700 Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 10:19:20 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199805111719.KAA00970@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: nielsen@verdi.engr.utk.edu Subject: Re: shocks questions Cc: ferrari-vintage What kind of instructions? I have Name: Gary Winters Company: ITT Parts Supply Division Address: 8085 Production Avenue Florence, KY 41042 Phone: (606) 727-5028 switchboard (606) 727-5011 Winters as the person I talked to about Konis. Don't know if he can provide stickers, but Parker Hall (Kilimanjaro Designs) probably can. From cak Mon May 11 10:32:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01118; Mon, 11 May 1998 10:32:36 -0700 Received: from localhost by verdi.engr.utk.edu with SMTP (SMI-8.6/2.8s-UTK.UTCC) id NAA10396; Mon, 11 May 1998 13:32:01 -0400 Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 13:32:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Erik Nielsen To: Chris Kantarjiev cc: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: shocks questions In-Reply-To: <199805111719.KAA00970@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII the instructions i am looking for is the little card that comes with the replacement shocks. basically the manual for them. i was trying to put the front right suspension back together last night and i could not get the shock to extend. i did not know if it locks into place or not. larry is taking it to the shop that mounted the spring to it to see what they say, but i was hoping to track down some documentation on it first. erik 365 gt4 2+2 (mine) 330 gtc (larry's) 400i (larry's) From cak Mon May 11 11:11:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01347; Mon, 11 May 1998 11:11:21 -0700 Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 11:11:21 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199805111811.LAA01347@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: nielsen@verdi.engr.utk.edu Subject: Re: shocks questions Cc: ferrari-vintage Oh. No, they shouldn't *ever* lock. But it's possible to make them very stiff in rebound, so they're quite difficult to extend by hand. From cak Mon May 11 11:22:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA01400; Mon, 11 May 1998 11:22:16 -0700 Received: by INET-03-IMC with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Mon, 11 May 1998 11:18:54 -0700 Message-ID: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD543CAD74@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> From: "Michael Bradley (Meridian Partners Ltd.)" To: "'Erik Nielsen'" Cc: ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: shocks questions Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 11:18:52 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) I have one at home - Ill bring it in if still needed > ---------- > From: Erik Nielsen[SMTP:nielsen@verdi.engr.utk.edu] > Sent: Monday, May 11, 1998 10:32 AM > To: Chris Kantarjiev > Cc: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: Re: shocks questions > > the instructions i am looking for is the little card that comes with the > replacement shocks. basically the manual for them. i was trying to put > the front right suspension back together last night and i could not get > the shock to extend. i did not know if it locks into place or not. larry > is taking it to the shop that mounted the spring to it to see what they > say, but i was hoping to track down some documentation on it first. > erik > 365 gt4 2+2 (mine) > 330 gtc (larry's) > 400i (larry's) > > From cak Mon May 11 18:32:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA02820; Mon, 11 May 1998 18:31:58 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd77-150.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.187.150]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA27068 for ; Mon, 11 May 1998 18:31:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Synchrometer Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 20:30:36 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd7d45$90976be0$96bbafce@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 I bought an SK model Synchrometer to set the Weber 38 DCOEs. The SK by itself is just barely large enough to fit the venturi throat. It's probably workable, but I know that there are a number of adaptors that are available. The place where I got the SK didn't have the adaptors I want. Does any one have a lead on someone who carries the #18 and the # 06 adaptors? As an alternative, does anyone see anything fundamentally flawed with my building my own adaptor, as long as I don't restrict the airflow? I'm thinking of PVC or rubber hosing. Thanks for any advice. Regards, Bryan From cak Wed May 13 10:49:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01028; Wed, 13 May 1998 10:49:39 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA274000 for ; Wed, 13 May 1998 20:49:00 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id UAA03691 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Wed, 13 May 1998 20:49:00 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199805131749.UAA03691@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Stirr in the TR-history... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 20:48:59 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To my understanding Jacques Swaters claim that he owned 250TR's 0724 and 0736 (many sources list his cars as 0718 and 0736). 0724 is concidered to have been the Askolin car in Finland but now one knowledgeable party claims that the Askolin car was without a doubt 0742 - a car believed sold new to Monteverdi. I am tempted to believe this... Now if Swaters had 0724, Askolin 0742 - where does this leave 0718...? Sold new to Mexico or what...? What come to 0568M being offered by Mr A. Bremer; I guess this is an alias to hide the actual owner (Robert Paulig) - I've also heard the name Carlos Monteverde - a Swedish dealer - mentioned. The car is in UK as for years it has been suffering from a chassis failure - my guess is that this problem is finally taken care of. From cak Thu May 14 02:15:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id CAA04288; Thu, 14 May 1998 02:15:41 -0700 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p17.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.17]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12795 for ; Thu, 14 May 1998 11:14:58 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <355AB5F5.3E40D212@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:14:29 +0200 From: Arvid van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: Re: Stirr in the TR-history... References: <199805131749.UAA03691@happi.hut.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kare M A Pietil{ wrote: > .. > What come to 0568M being offered by Mr A. Bremer; I guess this is > an alias to hide the actual owner (Robert Paulig) - I've also heard > the name Carlos Monteverde - a Swedish dealer - mentioned. > .. Maybe a dumb question, but I thought that Carlos Monteverde was from Brasil and that he among other things owns the yellow 250 TR (0738). Was he a Swedish dealer or so ?? Please explain. Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://home.worldonline.nl/~daalen From cak Thu May 14 12:37:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA01916; Thu, 14 May 1998 12:36:56 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME ([195.121.70.34]) by mmp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.52) with SMTP id AAA5043; Thu, 14 May 1998 21:36:03 +0200 Message-ID: <355BB863.4E95@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 20:37:07 -0700 From: Bert de Boer Reply-To: fer340am@wxs.nl Organization: World Access X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-WXS-16 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net CC: Bryan Cashion , ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: It's me with my favourite subject again... References: <01bd7689$1d75d2e0$12a9afce@none.compuserve.com> <354CA629.171B@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Been on a holiday for a while I wasn't able to help you with the following information about the Ferarri I'm higly interested in (the 340 America) Gerald Roush wrote: > > The question now is, to what form is it going to be restored? When it > was in the USA it was pretty much a posh cabriolet, even down to a dome > light on the convertible top. Lord Brockett somewhat customized it to > make it "racier". I bet it gets "restored" more as a competition 340 > America a la Gil Nickel's S/N 0140 and less as its original posh > cabriolet configuration. You are quit right, the car is going to be restored like the Nickel 0140A. I've spoken to David Cottingham from DK engineering, who is doing the restoration, and he confirmed this fact. By the way there were two other Ferrari's 'stolen' from lord Brocket, a 250 Europe and a 195 Sport, and as far as my infomation is correct the 250 Europe is being restored here in Holland. There were some rumours about 0138A that is was bought by Carlos Monteverde (indeed Edvar he is from Brazil but he keps a Ferrari collection in Greta Brittain) but when I saw the advertise of Talacrest I might be wrong. During my holiday I've been to the Shell Historic at Spa-Francorchamps and it was wonderfull to see so many old Ferrari's on the track. Saw Jacky Ickx winning in a 312 PB. Other participating Ferrari's were: 2-166MM, a 250 Europe GT (ex-Bergman), 2 750 Monza's, several 500 TR(C) 250 GT's 250 TR's, a 625 TR, 2 250 GTO's, 2 275 GTB/C, several 365 GTB/C's, a 268 SP, a 246 S, a 330P2, a Dino 206S and for me the highlight 2 512M's and 3 312PB's. Sincerely, Bert de Boer PS. Some offered me some help, just a reminder From cak Thu May 14 13:41:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02248; Thu, 14 May 1998 13:41:17 -0700 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:41:17 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199805142041.NAA02248@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: It's me with my favourite subject again... So how far from original is the current condition of 0140A? From cak Fri May 15 03:21:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id DAA04762; Fri, 15 May 1998 03:21:05 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA266588 for ; Fri, 15 May 1998 13:20:29 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id NAA08665 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Fri, 15 May 1998 13:20:30 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199805151020.NAA08665@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Re: Stirr in the TR-history... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:20:29 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Maybe a dumb question, but I thought that Carlos Monteverde was from Brasil > and > that he among other things owns the yellow 250 TR (0738). Was he a Swedish > dealer or so ?? Please explain. My mistake - aqcuired by a Swedish dealer for Carlos Monteverde sounds more like it; and note that it was only a rumour - and to my understanding to a very false one too... From cak Sun May 17 03:06:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id DAA02711; Sun, 17 May 1998 03:06:01 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME ([195.121.70.202]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.52) with SMTP id AAA6443; Sun, 17 May 1998 12:05:26 +0200 Message-ID: <355F2755.7AEA@wxs.nl> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 11:07:17 -0700 From: Bert de Boer Reply-To: fer340am@wxs.nl Organization: World Access X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-WXS-16 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Kantarjiev CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: It's me with my favourite subject again... References: <199805142041.NAA02248@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Kantarjiev wrote: > > So how far from original is the current condition of 0140A? I've seen photo's from 0140A when it arrived in the States in 1952. At the time the color was red, it's yellow now, and it had chrome strips along the sides of the car below hte doors. These chrome strips are removed nowadays. The car had also two lights at the back of the front fenders, now no more. But the main look of the car is still the same as it was 46 years ago. If you're interested I can send a list of all 340 America's comparing the bodies as the were in 1951/52 and how they look today. Bert de Boer From cak Sun May 17 16:25:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA01532; Sun, 17 May 1998 16:25:34 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (dd53-113.dub.compuserve.com [199.174.184.113]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA17817 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 16:24:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Dinoplex ignition modules Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 18:23:22 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd81ea$c9063700$71b8aec7@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 I ran into a fellow at a local car show two weeks ago who was showing a Daytona. He also owns a 330 GTC and a 246 GTS. Anyway, the Dinoplex module on the Daytona crashed about a year ago and the owner was unable to find a replacement. He ended up buying a 1997 module (perhaps from a 456 GT?) and using it instead. There was no re-tuning needed. To preserve the OEM look, he hollowed out the bad Daytona casing and fit the 1997 version inside! I bought a rebuilt module from Rutland's last week. It feels lighter than the OEM part. I'm wondering if its been rebuilt with newer parts. If so, how easy is that to do? I am wondering what other experience, if any, people have with similar replacements and/or rebuilds. Gerald: does the Roush-Ridgley Tech tips compendium discuss Dinoplexes? If so, that by itself is worth the price of admission! Regards, Bryan From cak Sun May 17 16:25:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA01533; Sun, 17 May 1998 16:25:35 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (dd53-113.dub.compuserve.com [199.174.184.113]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA17822 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 16:25:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "Bryan Cashion" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12" Subject: Photos Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 18:23:30 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd81ea$cdc4d080$71b8aec7@none.compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 I was sorting through my collection of photos over the weekend and came across two sets that might interest some of you...one from the FCA National Meet at Watkins Glen in 1985, the second from a Vintage event at Lime Rock in 1986. I have scanned the following and have posted them to a "private" Web site at //home.sprynet.com/sprynet/cashion/watkins. All I ask is that if you post them elsewhere, please give me credit. All are JPG files at about 100k each. The above URL contains thumbnails; you can then get the fullsize image if you want by clicking. 340 MM Vignale Spyder S/N 0350 MM, owned then and still (as far as I know) by Sherman Wolf. 8 files (hey, it's a magnificent car!!). (Lime Rock) Allard J-2. 2 files. (one of the engine) (Lime Rock) All the rest are on the Watkins Glen URL. 250 LWB PF Cabriolet, unknown S/N. 2 files (a bit underexposed because I forgot to correct for the black car). I am interested in comments as to whether or not this really is a cabrio. It has the lines of a LWB California Spyder, but appears to have a PF badge in the usual location. 275 GTS*4 NART Spyder. Unknown S/N, but I think its 10429 because of the tonneau cover and the wire wheels. The FML article on this model (7 Dec 1996) were helpful. Thanks, Gerald. 4 files 250 GT TdF. 1 file 250 SWB. 3 files TRI 61. 1 file 625 F1. 1 files. This might be a 500 F2, as I understand that the same body was used for both models. Any comments?. 512 BB LM. 1 file. 512 BB engine. 1 file 275 GTB. 2 files...2 cars. 288 GTO. 1 file. Dino 206 S. 1 file 250 GTO 64. 1 file 312 PB. 1 file. 250 GTB Lusso. 2 files (one of the engine) Regards, Bryan From cak Thu Jun 4 23:41:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id XAA04612; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:41:22 -0700 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p104.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.104]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18577 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:02:23 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <3576E108.5FA11A32@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 20:01:44 +0200 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: Info on #5037 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Two weeks ago I met a man who owns the one and only dutch Ferrari 330 America and it happened to be # 5037. I'll meet him again in two weeks and I was looking for some more info about this car. I think it's nice when I can show him some info about his car. The car spent most of its live in the USA, so maybe one of you has some info about it. This is what I have : * Owned by Mark Pfaller, Milwaukee, WI, USA. * In February 1986 for sale at Silverstone Motors, Waukesha, WI, USA. * Juni 1988 offered by Richard Pinta(u)ro, NY, USA. Tel. (516) 537-2354 / (516) 725-9436 LHD. Black with Tan interior. 37000 miles on the odometer. Excellent cond. * In 1995 for sale in the USA. * In 1997/98 owned by a man from Noordwijk, NL. Black with cream interior. Reg.plate DL-80-64 (NL). (info from the 250 GTE register, the Marvin Register and from some friends) Many thanks in advance, Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/ferrari/60/ From cak Wed Jun 10 05:11:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA05265; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 05:11:11 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust201.tnt3.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.17.201]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA02811; Wed, 10 Jun 1998 05:10:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <357EA1EE.CA8@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 08:10:38 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: daalen@worldonline.nl CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: 330 AMERICA S/N 5037 GT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is the history I have on S/N 5037 GT: Per LCM records car was imported new into the USA by Luigi Chinetti Motors, Greenwich, CT. LCM paid $7,375 for the car in Dec 1963. Per LCM records car was owned 1970 by Flagler Matthews, Rye, NY. Being serviced at Luigi Chinetti Motors Jul 1970. Blue. 21,168 miles. NY license YW 9391. Per LCM records car was owned 1971 by Sam Costello, Patterson, NJ. Being serviced at Luigi Chinetti Motors Apr 1971. Blue. 23,555 miles. NJ license ULF 800. Per 250 GTE Register car is ex-Mark Pfaller, Milwaukee, WI; ex-Silverstone Motors, Waukesha, WI, Feb 1986. Offered Jun 1988 by Richard Pintauro, Ritlyn Motors, Bridgehampton, NY. Black with beige leather. Rebuilt motor. 37,000 miles. (FML 1313). Owned 1990 by Bob Marceca, North Salem, NY. Seen there 14 Feb 1990. Offered Apr 1990 by him. Black with beige interior. Ground-up restoration perfect in every respect. (FML 1507). Offered Jun 1990 Guernsey's Auction, Greenwich, CT. No sale. Offered Aug 1990 by Fred Jaeger / Len Emmke / Doug Trotter as result of the ICL Leasing scam. Black with tan interior. Odometer shows 37,541 miles. Display ad only. (FML 1516). Scheduled to be offered at Jan 1991 Barrett-Jackson Auction, Scottsdale, AZ, at no reserve as part of a "collection liquidation" but withdrawn (along withg the rest of the "collection") before bidding. Offered Jan 1995 Barrett-Jackson Auction, Scottsdale, AZ. Sold for $40,000. Allegedly then re-sold to a Dutch collector. (SCML Mar 1995). Offered Feb 1995 by Heritage Classics, West Hollywood, CA. Black with tan interior. Nancy Sinatra's car. Perfect. (FML 2004). From cak Sat Jun 20 12:03:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA01228; Sat, 20 Jun 1998 12:03:40 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA305602 for ; Sat, 20 Jun 1998 22:03:06 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id WAA04231 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 20 Jun 1998 22:03:20 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199806201903.WAA04231@happi.hut.fi> Subject: A short remark... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 22:03:19 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In an earlier message concerning recent history of 0568M I made some fuss about whose who; here goes some additional information: Anders Bremer is a Swedish dealer (the one whose name was mixed with Carlos Monteverde in an earlier message) who in the crazy years was the man behind the Consolidator Collection in Sweden, which traded in and out several special Ferraris; Superamericas and California spyders among others. If Robert Paulig still owns 0568M, it's only natural that Bremer's name is mentioned as he to my understanding is the connection between Cottingham's DK-Engineering (where the chassis defect is being repaired?) and Paulig. Can anyone confirm that Paulig bought his 250GT Boano 0743GT at DK? Any comments on cabriolet 2011GT also welcome. Does anyone want to comment the fact that 250GT Boano 0633GT has been offered for sale in Europe with very extensive racing history - Rallye de Alps etc... From cak Wed Jul 1 21:27:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA08278; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:27:56 -0700 Received: from loop.com (p17.hwts00.loop.net [207.211.61.32]) by stevie.loop.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA23018 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:26:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <359B0DD0.1A948753@loop.com> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 20:34:29 -0800 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@loop.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: Automotive Mecca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Who amongst us will be in Monterey this August. Dave Booth/Sam Sapienza and I will be driving in formation up from LA, but - unfortunately - not in Ferrari. Andrew. From cak Wed Jul 1 21:45:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA08320; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:45:40 -0700 Received: from zephyr.amazon.com (zephyr.amazon.com [204.177.154.23]) by amazon.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA13109; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:45:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by zephyr.amazon.com id VAA30000; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:45:05 -0700 (PDT) From: "Ryan Snodgrass" To: , "Vintage V12 list." Subject: RE: Automotive Mecca Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:42:41 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01bda573$d8aa3f60$e1dbcad0@ferrari> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <359B0DD0.1A948753@loop.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 I'll be coming in the SF route...also (unfortunately) not in a Ferrari. Maybe next year...the way Amazon.com stock has treated me well I don't think there is an issue :). Ryan > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Brent [mailto:abrent@loop.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 1998 9:34 PM > To: Vintage V12 list. > Subject: Automotive Mecca > > > Hi, > > Who amongst us will be in Monterey this August. > Dave Booth/Sam Sapienza and I will be driving in > formation up from LA, but - unfortunately - not in Ferrari. > > > Andrew. > From cak Fri Jul 3 23:24:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id XAA02122; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:24:41 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA345840 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 09:24:08 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id JAA10687 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 09:24:32 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199807040624.JAA10687@happi.hut.fi> Subject: 166 Barhetta 0012M To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 09:24:31 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit More info on this early car: Tore Bjurstrom bough this already tired car from "Rosdorp" in Nurburgring 1950 and let Rune Bertilsson to fix it for him. During winter 1951/52 Bjurstrom bought a used 166 F2-engine (180bhp with dry-sump and 5-speed tranny) The engines where traded in and out of the car. The one that didn't sit in the Ferrari at the time was usually sitting in nose of Bertil Lundberg's homebrewed BLG-special that was mostly based on BMW-328 parts and later owned by Stener. 1952 Valdemar Stener won Ice Races in Ljusdal, Bergaker, Varpen and Edsbyn. 11/05/52 Helsinki GP: Stener, 1st in 2-litre class, #12 10/05/53 Helsinki GP: Stener, 1st in 2-litre class, #45 09/05/54 Helsinki GP: John Bengtson, 1st in 2-litre class, #15 1954 Skarpnack Airfield, Stockholm: Olle Persson, 1st in 2.6-litre class. 1954 Hedemoraloppet, Hedemora, Sweden: John Bengtson, #41, 1st (Rented the car from Bjurstrom for 2000skr) 08/05/55 Helsinki GP: Bengt Jonsson, 4th in 2-litre class .. Also raced by Joakim Bonnier and other drivers. 1957 Sold to Luigi Chinetti, NY with both engines for 10,000 skr. The question leads where did this other engine come from and is there any info of its identity? From cak Sun Jul 5 02:04:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id CAA02908; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 02:04:17 -0700 Received: from bdb1 ([195.121.20.144]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with SMTP id AAA5912 for ; Sun, 5 Jul 1998 11:03:41 +0200 Message-ID: <359F416F.1033@wxs.nl> Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 11:03:43 +0200 From: Bert de Boer Reply-To: fer340am@wxs.nl Organization: World Access X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-WXS-16 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Ferrari DC-rom Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear list, Two years ago I bought a marvelous CD-rom about, of course, Ferrari. At that time the price was $50.00 (fifty dollar). Today it's for sale in some dutch stores for about $20.00 (twenty dollar). If some of you're interested I will see if I can find some extra copies. Postage will be $5.00 by air mail and $3.00 by regular mail. The contents of the CD-rom: - over 2500 photo's - 15 minutes of video clips - description of all road and racing cars - all the drivers from Nuvolari to Schumacher - photo's from Enzo Ferrari's private album - all the victories, sports, GT and F1 - cutaway's with zoom facilities on the technical details - on the Fiorano track with the F50 (at least when you scored 100 points in Enzo's office) The CD-rom is in English. If you're interested please let me know. I don't know how many copies I can find so the one who's first has most change. Bert de Boer From cak Mon Jul 6 05:20:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA06515; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 05:20:11 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust1.tnt2.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.15.1]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA13985; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 05:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35A0EB07.7C17@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 08:19:35 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kare M A Pietil{ CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 166 Barhetta 0012M References: <199807040624.JAA10687@happi.hut.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are you sure this was Chassis S/N 0012? I have Roosdorp owning Chassis S/N 0014 / Engine S/N 0012. Chassis S/N 0012 / Engine S/N 0010 wound up in America with a mid-50's style Scaglietti Spyder body on it. It eventually lost engine S/N 0010 and wound up with a 250 GT V-12. Kare M A Pietil{ wrote: > > More info on this early car: > > Tore Bjurstrom bough this already tired car from "Rosdorp" in > Nurburgring 1950 and let Rune Bertilsson to fix it for him. > During winter 1951/52 Bjurstrom bought a used 166 F2-engine > (180bhp with dry-sump and 5-speed tranny) > > The engines where traded in and out of the car. The one that > didn't sit in the Ferrari at the time was usually sitting in > nose of Bertil Lundberg's homebrewed BLG-special that was > mostly based on BMW-328 parts and later owned by Stener. > > 1952 Valdemar Stener won Ice Races in Ljusdal, Bergaker, > Varpen and Edsbyn. > 11/05/52 Helsinki GP: Stener, 1st in 2-litre class, #12 > 10/05/53 Helsinki GP: Stener, 1st in 2-litre class, #45 > 09/05/54 Helsinki GP: John Bengtson, 1st in 2-litre class, #15 > 1954 Skarpnack Airfield, Stockholm: Olle Persson, 1st in > 2.6-litre class. > 1954 Hedemoraloppet, Hedemora, Sweden: John Bengtson, #41, 1st > (Rented the car from Bjurstrom for 2000skr) > 08/05/55 Helsinki GP: Bengt Jonsson, 4th in 2-litre class > .. Also raced by Joakim Bonnier and other drivers. > 1957 Sold to Luigi Chinetti, NY with both engines for 10,000 skr. > > The question leads where did this other engine come from and is there > any info of its identity? From cak Mon Jul 6 09:50:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA07249; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 09:50:54 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA07166 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:50:19 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id TAA17025 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:50:45 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199807061650.TAA17025@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Re: 166 Barhetta 0012M To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:50:44 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Are you sure this was Chassis S/N 0012? I have Roosdorp owning Chassis > S/N 0014 / Engine S/N 0012. Shit, now that you mention it... I've only had different articles as source and they always mentioned 0012M as the chassis number for Stener's car. I only just received this information pointing Roosdorp as the seller, and only now I noticed that he is listed as an owner of 0014M. To me this indicates quite clearly that Stener's car was probably 0014M and the engine number was used when booking the car into different events. As a happy coincidence I on Sunday found a photo of Steners car approaching the straight in Helsinki GP 1955, driven by Bengt Jonsson... The seller at the local fleamarket was asking 3Usd, which I concider reasonable. > Chassis S/N 0012 / Engine S/N 0010 wound up in America with a mid-50's > style Scaglietti Spyder body on it. It eventually lost engine S/N 0010 > and wound up with a 250 GT V-12. I until this date thought that this would have been Stener's car. From cak Wed Jul 8 22:05:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA08573; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:05:15 -0700 Received: by INET-IMC-01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2328.0) id <3PS6QRHZ>; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:04:41 -0700 Message-ID: From: Jeff Littrell To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Sultan selling? Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:04:37 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2328.0) I have heard a well-sustansiated rumor that the Sultan and his cousin(?) Jeffrey have let go all the mechanics that they had under employment and are no longer driving the cars in their collection. Rumor has it that they are going to sell it all. That is 2,930 cars folks. Wonder how that would affect the market.... From cak Thu Jul 9 15:09:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA02651; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:09:35 -0700 Received: by mail3.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2328.0) id <3RA87YWW>; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:09:00 -0700 Message-ID: From: Jeff Littrell To: ferrari-vintage Subject: FW: Luigi Chinnetti Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:08:57 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2328.0) Anyone want to help this guy? -----Original Message----- From: Peter Radcliffe [mailto:peter@mmcars.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 1998 4:47 AM To: Jeff Littrell Subject: Luigi Chinnetti Hi, I am trying on behalf of Christian Goelle of MCM model cars to search for info on Luigi Chinnetti, in particular the Alfa Romeo he drove at Le Mans in 1933 car No8 and also the No11 car of 1935. Current research suggest they may have been the same car albeit somewhat modified by 1935. I wondered if you could point me in any helpful directions perhaps in the direction of his son? Thanks Peter -- Peter Radcliffe From cak Sat Jul 18 22:12:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA02239; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 22:12:43 -0700 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: from PaceCars@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id 2EPGa04020 for ; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 01:11:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 01:11:52 EDT To: ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Fuel filter hose color? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 The fuel filter on my 1966 330 2+2 is leaking (the one from the filter to the carbs). I need to replace it, but would like for it to look original. The one on it uses the original fittings but has new material banded on. Isn't it supposed to be yellow? Is the original material available? Thanx, Harold Pace 330 2+2 #8705 From cak Sat Jul 18 22:49:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA02397; Sat, 18 Jul 1998 22:49:12 -0700 Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 22:49:12 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199807190549.WAA02397@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: PaceCars@aol.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Fuel filter hose color? The original wire-wound yellow hoseis available - I got it from FAF (now Ferrari of Atlanta). It was a pain to put on to the original fittings, but doable. From cak Sun Jul 19 00:18:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id AAA02590; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 00:18:07 -0700 Received: from loop.com (p01.hwts14.loop.net [207.211.62.196]) by stevie.loop.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA14763; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 00:19:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35B19F51.C9BB961F@loop.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 00:25:10 -0700 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@loop.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Kantarjiev CC: PaceCars@aol.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Fuel filter hose color? References: <199807190549.WAA02397@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This hose is also available from GT car parts in Arizona. I believe it's about $4/inch however. Anyone else got a price that's better than this. Andrew. Chris Kantarjiev wrote: > The original wire-wound yellow hoseis available - I got it from FAF (now > Ferrari of Atlanta). It was a pain to put on to the original > fittings, but doable. From cak Sun Jul 19 08:58:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA03756; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 08:58:03 -0700 Received: from blockton ([12.64.134.164]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19980719155729.LEAM7061@blockton> for ; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:57:29 +0000 Message-ID: <35B2162D.BB82F874@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 08:52:14 -0700 From: David Booth Reply-To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vintage Ferrari List Subject: 'nother source for hose X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lots of folks seem to have the hose and fittings, and will make up assemblies for you. Newco Products is on the Net at newcoproducts.com; and I seem to recall Ted Rutlands 770-493-8852 or fax to 770-934-6857 as having it, as well as Partsource 207-236-9791 or fax to 6323. Although it never hurts to shop for a good price, I suspect everyone's going to be breathtakingly high on this stuff. Dave From cak Sun Jul 19 10:08:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA03919; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:08:59 -0700 Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:08:59 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199807191708.KAA03919@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 'nother source for hose Yup, it will be pricey. I don't remember what we paid, to be honest. If you just have the fittings, you may also need to get the (nickel-plated steel?) ferrules that clamp the hose to the fittings. You may be able to squeeze these tight in a bench vise yourself, or go to a good hydraulic repair shop and get them to do it for you. From cak Sun Jul 19 17:58:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA04990; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 17:58:09 -0700 Received: from loop.com (p11.hwts15.loop.net [207.211.62.236]) by stevie.loop.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA29398; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 17:59:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35B297C3.A21850C7@loop.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 18:05:14 -0700 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@loop.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net CC: Vintage Ferrari List Subject: Re: 'nother source for hose References: <35B2162D.BB82F874@worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Booth wrote: > Lots of folks seem to have the hose and fittings, and will make up > assemblies for you. Newco Products is on the Net at newcoproducts.com; > While we are all talking about newco. I went out to Reseda to see Neil at his shop when I was looking for specific screws to re-assemble the grill. He is pretty pricey on the stuff, and it's mostly for the Daytona/Dino on. So the hoses would most likely be cheaper from the other guy's that Dave mentioned. He is also not to picky about how close he is to the original equipment. Last but not least is that this is a side business for him, with it's heyday about 7 years ago, so when he's out of something, it's over. He is a nice guy though, and more than willing to talk about the cars. I ended up sourcing a place called Best-West Fasteners, for the screw stuff. They have most anything, both in head styles and metric, and can supply in Stainless if you want. I have discovered that if you polish the head of a stainless screw you can get it so it is virtually indistinguishable from the original in chrome, and I live near the beach so I don't feel like changing out screws about every 5 years. Best-west is (818) 768-4817, for those who are following my rambling story which got off the track of hoses. Regards, Andrew. > and I seem to recall Ted Rutlands 770-493-8852 or fax to 770-934-6857 as > having it, as well as Partsource 207-236-9791 or fax to 6323. Although > it never hurts to shop for a good price, I suspect everyone's going to > be breathtakingly high on this stuff. > > Dave From cak Sun Jul 19 18:28:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA05051; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 18:28:46 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA90460 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 04:28:09 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id EAA25730 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 20 Jul 1998 04:28:45 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199807200128.EAA25730@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Re: 'nother source for hose To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 04:28:45 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I ended up sourcing a place called Best-West Fasteners, for > the screw stuff. They have most anything, both in head styles and > metric, and can supply in Stainless if you want. Any opinion on if using stainless screws can be dangerous for surrounding material because of electrolytic corrosion in case it gets damp...? I, for sure would not risk brightwork with stainless screws in Finland where we just had a snow storm in end of July (okay, it did hit the tabloids!) and the cold makes the condensing water a problem all the time... From cak Sun Jul 19 20:22:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA05404; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 20:22:15 -0700 Received: from loop.com (p05.hwts10.loop.net [207.211.62.80]) by stevie.loop.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA13286; Sun, 19 Jul 1998 20:22:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35B2B95B.FDAA8D14@loop.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 20:28:49 -0700 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@loop.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kare M A Pietil{ CC: Ferrari Vintage Subject: Re: 'nother source for hose References: <199807200128.EAA25730@happi.hut.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kare M A Pietil{ wrote: > Any opinion on if using stainless screws can be dangerous for surrounding > material because of electrolytic corrosion in case it gets damp...? It doesn't seem to be a problem on boats. Anyone else comment. Andrew. From cak Sun Aug 2 10:19:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA03819; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 10:19:30 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd24-223.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.215.223]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA09069 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 10:18:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 12:18:43 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDBE0F.B0E311A0.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: Compression ratios Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 11:58:43 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have what may be a dumb question, but I read an ad recently about a Ferrari (I seem to recollect an 8 cylinder) for sale that had a compression check at 180+ psi on all cylinders. Now I have always thought that the maximum pressure in a tight cylinder would be the compression ratio times 14.7 psi. Hence, 180 psi equates to C.R. of 12.2. I don't recollect this being a modified car nor torbcharged, so 12.2 strikes me as unrealistic. Am I missing something about 180 psi compression readings? All I can think of is that, although the pressure in the cylinder can never be greater than CR x 14.7, the pressure in a guage screwed into the spark plug hole could go higher, as the pressure is not relieved in the guage during a firing cycle, the way the cylinder is. If this is the mechanism, then I question the value of a compression check, because what it measures is the ability of a guage to hold pressure, not the cylinder. Who can straighten me out?? Regards, Bryan From cak Sun Aug 2 17:53:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA04792; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:53:32 -0700 Received: by krypton.woodside.com.au; id IAA21583; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:50:39 +0800 Received: from perm01.woodside.com.au(158.89.192.53) by krypton.woodside.com.au via smap (4.0a) id xma021553; Mon, 3 Aug 98 08:50:04 +0800 Received: by perm01.woodside.com.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:53:39 +0800 Message-ID: <11C957791F80D111978500805F859380915164@perm03.woodside.com.au> From: "LaVelle, Kelly K." To: "'Bryan Cashion'" , "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Compression ratios Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:53:07 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Bryan, Your question is a good one .. I'll watch with interest for the answers from others as I just had the compression on the 365GT checked (paranoid as usual). FWIW, all cylinders had 175 psi. The poor running which had made me suspect serious engine dramas turned out to be nothing more than a duff coil - one bank of cylinders had almost no spark. But if the 175psi meausurement is true, how does this work when compared with theoretical compressio ratio? Kelly PS: A 4 cylinder Alfa Romeo of the same vintage comes up with 195psi on all cylinders, and that does have a slightly higher compression ratio - that does makes sense I hope? > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Cashion [SMTP:cashion@sprynet.com] > Sent: Monday, August 03, 1998 12:59 AM > To: Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail) > Subject: Compression ratios > > I have what may be a dumb question, but I read an ad recently about a > Ferrari (I seem to recollect an 8 cylinder) for sale that had a > compression > check at 180+ psi on all cylinders. Now I have always thought that > the > maximum pressure in a tight cylinder would be the compression ratio > times > 14.7 psi. Hence, 180 psi equates to C.R. of 12.2. I don't recollect > this > being a modified car nor torbcharged, so 12.2 strikes me as > unrealistic. > Am I missing something about 180 psi compression readings? > > All I can think of is that, although the pressure in the cylinder can > never > be greater than CR x 14.7, the pressure in a guage screwed into the > spark > plug hole could go higher, as the pressure is not relieved in the > guage > during a firing cycle, the way the cylinder is. If this is the > mechanism, > then I question the value of a compression check, because what it > measures > is the ability of a guage to hold pressure, not the cylinder. > > Who can straighten me out?? > > Regards, > Bryan From cak Tue Aug 4 09:21:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA01043; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:21:40 -0700 Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:21:40 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199808041621.JAA01043@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: cashion@sprynet.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Compression ratios This is a pretty common misconception. The short version is that you can't just take the pressure and divide by 14.7. Some engines will come out with desperately low numbers, and some very high, but it is a rare engine that comes out right. The only way to accurately determine CR is by volumetric measurement. Engines with a lot of camshaft overlap will tend to come out low via this method, because some of the air they suck in will be pushed out the exhaust valve rather than being compressed, so less pressure will result. Engines that don't have a lot of overlap will read high, because the intake air is being heated as well as compressed, leading to additional pressure on the guage... The only appropriate use for a compression tester is to see if all the cylinders are withing 10% of each other, and to begin (with the help of a little oil) the diagnosis of bad rings. From cak Wed Aug 5 10:27:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA05710; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 10:26:59 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA34516 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 20:26:24 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id UAA09111 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 20:26:31 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199808051726.UAA09111@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Compression ratios To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 20:26:30 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have what may be a dumb question, but I read an ad recently about a > Ferrari (I seem to recollect an 8 cylinder) for sale that had a compression > check at 180+ psi on all cylinders. Now I have always thought that the > maximum pressure in a tight cylinder would be the compression ratio times > 14.7 psi. Hence, 180 psi equates to C.R. of 12.2. I don't recollect this > being a modified car nor torbcharged, so 12.2 strikes me as unrealistic. > Am I missing something about 180 psi compression readings? In fact you are; the theoretical limit is valid only if you have an absolutely tight cylinder and you let all heat created by the compression out of the system before reading the gauge. In reality the cylinder lets the pressure out before the temperature returned to the normal reading so you can't really have a measured pressure that would hit the spot. (In fact you can have a measurement that seems to match because some of the heat remains in the system and some of the pressure leaks out...) When measuring the compression ratio the temperature will rise some 100 kelvins (about) and the pressure reading you get from the gauge is somewhere between this theoretical _lower_ limit and the theoretical upper limit that is defined for a system that lets _none_ of the created heat out (adiabatic pressure). Can't count that out because I've mysteriously lost my book on thermodynamics after I cleared the exam... Where does this leave us? We should compare the reading with what is documented as normal reading of a compression test and forget the theoretical approach. As oil is usually added to the cylinder before taking the test to secure the piston rings, you can get astonishingly high readings if you add too much oil - something a friend of mine just did after misinterpreting the fl.oz. to milliliter-conversion when trying to figure out how much oil he should add... resulting in a smashed gauge with an all time high reading. I for myself have enough problems converting the Psi's to Pascals... (Why on earth didn't the Englishmen invent a clock of their own - 27 3/4 hours per day starting on 3 AM would take the confusion a step closer to the perfection...) From cak Fri Aug 14 15:50:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA07370; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:50:20 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hil-dnppm-058.oh.compuserve.net [206.175.100.58]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA06129 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:50:49 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDC7AC.127E2080.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion Reply-To: "cashion@sprynet.com" To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:41:21 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm vacationing in Vermont and went to the Stowe Auto Show last weekend. Sponsored by Vermont Auto Enthusiasts, there were several hundred cars, all at least 25 years old. Although most were American cars, there was one Ferrari, but it was a great one. A 225 Sport roadster (Vignale S/N 0160) that has just come out of restoration to original specs. The owner drove it to the show (leather helmet and goggles), dusted it off, and it was magnificent. He also plans to run it in the Forza Mille. John Oren and I visited a couple of his contacts in Vermont. One was just finishing up the engine work on S/N 10351 (I may have the numbers off a bit; I'll check when back home). This is a 330 GTC with a 365 engine, i.e. it is the prototype for the 365 GTC. The second place was a real gold mine. 2 308s in front that we barely looked at...how jaded. The non-Ferraris that I remember included: 69 Corvette 62 Corvette Early Porsche Carrera De Lorean (painted white!) Jaguar 150 XK-S Bandini an Alfa with a fair bit of history that I can't even remember BMW 3.0 CS (CSL- perhaps) On to the good stuff... 512 BBi 328 GTS 1 or 2 308s (besides the ones outside) 250 Lusso (S/N 1007) painted Azzuro metallizzato...stunning even under inside dim lighting 250 GTE 3 330 GT 2+2 (two are running, one is quite disassembled) 275 GTS 250 GT Tour de France (I asked but forgot the S/N.) 225S Vignale coupe (S/N 0134) Finally, the shop owner's personal Ferrari and a car he has owned since he was 15. It is a 340 America (S/N 030), being refurbished for an event at Watkins Glen on 10 Sep. The 225S Vignale coupe is supposed to be there also. From cak Sat Aug 15 21:06:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA02175; Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:06:33 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA138796 for ; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 07:05:54 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id HAA27163 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sun, 16 Aug 1998 07:06:11 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199808160406.HAA27163@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Pebble Beach Auction... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 07:06:10 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone confirm that 750 Monza 0568M is coming up in Pebble Beach auction this fall...? From cak Mon Aug 17 08:03:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA06633; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:03:09 -0700 Received: from blockton ([12.64.114.235]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19980817150230.DBVZ13301@blockton>; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:02:30 +0000 Message-ID: <35D844A5.8D64E459@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 07:56:38 -0700 From: David Booth Reply-To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kare M A Pietil{ CC: Ferrari Vintage Subject: Re: Pebble Beach Auction... X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199808160406.HAA27163@happi.hut.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kare: I was there both nights, and although I didn't see every lot in the sale, I don't believe it was in the catalog or on the sale list. It may have been in the Christie's auction, which was a separate event held Sunday night. There was an interesting sale Saturday night though -- an original, unrestored '63 Jaguar XKE alloy-bodied racer that was ordered by a private entrant to race at Sebring; was run just the one time, and was subsequently allowed to sit neglected in a garage in LA until being unearthed this year. At least it was indoors, and though the engine and trans were out of the car when found and the paint had been sanded away in random spots, the car appeared to be complete although extremely shabby. The white paint with red racing stripe was barely recognizable, since they left the coating of grime intact to enhance the mummified character of the car; the plexi windows looked like slices of badly aged cheese; and a fist-sized hole had been crudely snipped in one of the fender-tops. After some of the most protracted bidding of the entire sale, it was gaveled to a man from England for the whopping sum of $815,000. Add to that amount a 10% buyers premium, the price of a trip through the carwash and $100,000 restoration tab, and you're looking at something that will still say "Jaguar" on the cam covers when the whole thing is over. Wow. Dave Kare M A Pietil{ wrote: > Can anyone confirm that 750 Monza 0568M is coming up in Pebble Beach > auction this fall...? From cak Mon Aug 17 08:49:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA06755; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 08:49:35 -0700 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: from PaceCars@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id TZSBa02268; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:48:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <585bc838.35d850c0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 11:48:11 EDT To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net, kpietila@cc.hut.fi Cc: ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: Pebble Beach Auction... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 In a message dated 8/17/98 3:05:48 PM, Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net wrote: >There was an interesting sale Saturday night though -- an original, >unrestored '63 Jaguar XKE alloy-bodied racer that was ordered by a >private entrant to race at Sebring; was run just the one time, and was >subsequently allowed to sit neglected in a garage in LA until being >unearthed this year. At least it was indoors, and though the engine and >trans were out of the car when found and the paint had been sanded away >in random spots, the car appeared to be complete although extremely >shabby. The white paint with red racing stripe was barely recognizable, >since they left the coating of grime intact to enhance the mummified >character of the car; the plexi windows looked like slices of badly >aged cheese; and a fist-sized hole had been crudely snipped in one of >the fender-tops. Dave Thanks for the auction report. I can't believe that XKE sold for that much. I mean, D-Types are available in the $750,000 range and normally alloy XKE's go for a little less than even C-Types. I guess someone really wanted that one. By the way, there was a 365 GT/4 2+2 there (black) estimated at 22-26. Do you know what it sold for? Harold Pace >After some of the most protracted bidding of the entire sale, it was >gaveled to a man from England for the whopping sum of $815,000. Add to >that amount a 10% buyers premium, the price of a trip through the >carwash and $100,000 restoration tab, and you're looking at something >that will still say "Jaguar" on the cam covers when the whole thing is >over. Wow. > >Dave From cak Mon Aug 17 20:29:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA10453; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:29:24 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd39-144.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.219.144]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA29651 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:27:20 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDCA2E.32E02A60.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: FW: 330GT2+2 front grease seals Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:13:19 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From the "other" list. Any help for this fellow? I'll pass it on. Regards, Bryan -----Original Message----- From: Rudy Hassen [SMTP:diglab@digitallab.com] Sent: Monday, August 17, 1998 3:24 PM To: ferrari@SoftHome.net Subject: 330GT2+2 front grease seals Hi there, I have a 64 330GT on which I have just put the later (interim) style front axle stubs. The problem I am haveing is getting new grease seals. Everyone I have talked to tells me these seals have been backordered for YEARS! I am going to reassemble the hibs with the old seals for now, but I am wondering if anyone has found a seal which works on these hubs. There were 2 versions of 330GT hubs used. One with ball bearings....early..and ones with roller bearing..later. I need the seals for the roller bearing version. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Rudy From cak Mon Aug 17 20:29:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA10451; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:29:19 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd39-144.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.219.144]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA29568; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:28:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:27:04 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDCA2E.297239A0.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion To: "'Kare M A Pietil{'" , Ferrari Vintage Subject: RE: Pebble Beach Auction... Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:22:06 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I received a catalog in the mail for cars to be auctioned. I do not know if it is a complete list, but the only Mondial is a 500 0414MD. Regards, Bryan On Saturday, August 15, 1998 11:06 PM, Kare M A Pietil{ [SMTP:kpietila@cc.hut.fi] wrote: > Can anyone confirm that 750 Monza 0568M is coming up in Pebble Beach > auction this fall...? From cak Mon Aug 17 20:29:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA10455; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:29:33 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd39-144.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.219.144]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA29731 for ; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 20:28:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:27:30 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDCA2E.38BC1AC0.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: FW: Vintage Ferraris Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:25:48 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A couple changes to my original note. S/N 1007 was a 250 PF coupe with the "Ferrari" and the prancing horse in chrome on the FRONT of the hood. I don't know the S/N of the Lusso, I have looked through Massini's book and I'm not so sure about the S/N of the Vignale coupe. Sorry, I messed up the numbers so much...I should have written them down, but I was a bit in shock at the whole collection!! I AM certain about the 340 America and the 225s roadster. Thanks again, John. I was up close to my earliest Ferrari yet (0160), then 3 days later, it got even better (030). Regards, Bryan -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Cashion [SMTP:cashion@sprynet.com] Sent: Friday, August 14, 1998 5:41 PM To: Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail) Subject: I'm vacationing in Vermont and went to the Stowe Auto Show last weekend. Sponsored by Vermont Auto Enthusiasts, there were several hundred cars, all at least 25 years old. Although most were American cars, there was one Ferrari, but it was a great one. A 225 Sport roadster (Vignale S/N 0160) that has just come out of restoration to original specs. The owner drove it to the show (leather helmet and goggles), dusted it off, and it was magnificent. He also plans to run it in the Forza Mille. John Oren and I visited a couple of his contacts in Vermont. One was just finishing up the engine work on S/N 10351 (I may have the numbers off a bit; I'll check when back home). This is a 330 GTC with a 365 engine, i.e. it is the prototype for the 365 GTC. The second place was a real gold mine. 2 308s in front that we barely looked at...how jaded. The non-Ferraris that I remember included: 69 Corvette 62 Corvette Early Porsche Carrera De Lorean (painted white!) Jaguar 150 XK-S Bandini an Alfa with a fair bit of history that I can't even remember BMW 3.0 CS (CSL- perhaps) On to the good stuff... 512 BBi 328 GTS 1 or 2 308s (besides the ones outside) 250 Lusso (S/N 1007) painted Azzuro metallizzato...stunning even under inside dim lighting 250 GTE 3 330 GT 2+2 (two are running, one is quite disassembled) 275 GTS 250 GT Tour de France (I asked but forgot the S/N.) 225S Vignale coupe (S/N 0134) Finally, the shop owner's personal Ferrari and a car he has owned since he was 15. It is a 340 America (S/N 030), being refurbished for an event at Watkins Glen on 10 Sep. The 225S Vignale coupe is supposed to be there also. From cak Tue Aug 18 08:38:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA00779; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:38:53 -0700 Received: from blockton ([12.64.114.207]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19980818153818.NSMU29927@blockton>; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:38:18 +0000 Message-ID: <35D99E92.F814C847@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:32:35 -0700 From: David Booth Reply-To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PaceCars@aol.com, Vintage Ferrari List Subject: Re: Pebble Beach Auction... X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <585bc838.35d850c0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi guys: Sorry, I don't know what the 365 sold for -- it went on the block after I left. I can tell you that a 365 spyder was bid pretty high, and that a GTE that Andrew Brent and Bruce Witcher both inspected fairly closely and agreed was a $25,000 car on the open market went for $34k. You're not the only one who was surprised that the lightweight E-type went so high. The bidding slowed at about $400k, and then again at $600k. Later on in the evening, it was pushed back outside in the courtyard, and set off in a corner where I was taking a closer look at it. A guy on the other side of the fence asked me, "whaddya think this one's going to sell for?", probably thinking he might get a bidder's card and tow home a fixer-upper Jag. When I told him it had just sold for about $900,000, he seemed pretty crestfallen. Dave PaceCars@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/17/98 3:05:48 PM, Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net > wrote: > > >There was an interesting sale Saturday night though -- an original, > >unrestored '63 Jaguar XKE alloy-bodied racer that was ordered by a > >private entrant to race at Sebring; was run just the one time, and > was > >subsequently allowed to sit neglected in a garage in LA until being > >unearthed this year. At least it was indoors, and though the engine > and > >trans were out of the car when found and the paint had been sanded > away > >in random spots, the car appeared to be complete although extremely > >shabby. The white paint with red racing stripe was barely > recognizable, > >since they left the coating of grime intact to enhance the mummified > >character of the car; the plexi windows looked like slices of badly > >aged cheese; and a fist-sized hole had been crudely snipped in one > of > >the fender-tops. > > Dave > Thanks for the auction report. I can't believe that XKE sold for that > much. I > mean, D-Types are available in the $750,000 range and normally alloy > XKE's go > for a little less than even C-Types. I guess someone really wanted > that one. > By the way, there was a 365 GT/4 2+2 there (black) estimated at 22-26. > Do you > know what it sold for? > Harold Pace > > >After some of the most protracted bidding of the entire sale, it was > >gaveled to a man from England for the whopping sum of $815,000. Add > to > >that amount a 10% buyers premium, the price of a trip through the > >carwash and $100,000 restoration tab, and you're looking at something > > >that will still say "Jaguar" on the cam covers when the whole thing > is > >over. Wow. > > > >Dave From cak Tue Aug 18 08:42:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA00792; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:42:17 -0700 Received: from blockton ([12.64.114.207]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19980818154145.NTXT29927@blockton>; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:41:45 +0000 Message-ID: <35D99F62.743B5C1B@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:36:02 -0700 From: David Booth Reply-To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bryan Cashion , Vintage Ferrari List Subject: Re: Pebble Beach Auction... X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <01BDCA2E.297239A0.cashion@sprynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ...and for some odd reason, this particular Mondial, which looked pretty nice from 50 feet away, sold for the mid-$400k range, I think. If memory serves, that's less than Tillack paid for an unrestored and very rough 500MD last year. Andrew, do you remember this one? Dave Bryan Cashion wrote: > I received a catalog in the mail for cars to be auctioned. I do not > know if it is a complete list, but the only Mondial is a 500 0414MD. > > Regards, > Bryan > > On Saturday, August 15, 1998 11:06 PM, Kare M A Pietil{ > [SMTP:kpietila@cc.hut.fi] wrote: > > Can anyone confirm that 750 Monza 0568M is coming up in Pebble Beach > > > auction this fall...? From cak Tue Aug 18 10:16:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01177; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:16:56 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:16:56 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199808181716.KAA01177@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net, PaceCars@aol.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Pebble Beach Auction... (E-type) I have this memory that an unraced lightweight E type (or maybe a D type?) went up for sale and sold at a very high price within the last six months. The explanation given then was that completely unmolested cars of that type were even more rare - most of hte ones that had been raced hard had been cut/fixed/repaired so many times that it was impossible to verify anything about them. The same might apply to this car. From cak Tue Aug 18 20:01:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA03980; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:01:44 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd34-148.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.214.148]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA06337; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 20:01:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:59:32 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDCAF3.7B292680.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion To: "'Kare M A Pietil{'" , "'Ferrari Vintage'" Subject: RE: Compression ratios Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:42:40 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for info, Kare! By the way, the easiest way for me to convert kiloPascals to other pressure units is to think of kPa as parts per thousand of one atmosphere. This is an estimate only, but is only off by about 1%. Hence, 500 kPa = 50% of one atmosphere = 0.5 bar = 7.35 psi. in reverse, 10 psi = .7 bar = 700 kPa etc. Best definition of second law of thermo...the whole universe is going to hell and all we can do is determine the rate. Regards, Bryan On Wednesday, August 05, 1998 12:27 PM, Kare M A Pietil{ [SMTP:kpietila@cc.hut.fi] wrote: > > > I for myself have enough problems converting the Psi's to Pascals... From cak Wed Aug 19 06:40:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA05584; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 06:40:38 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust110.tnt5.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.44.110]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA08218 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 06:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35DAFFD5.4EC0@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 09:39:49 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Pebble Beach Auction... References: <199808160406.HAA27163@happi.hut.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kare M A Pietil{ wrote: > > Can anyone confirm that 750 Monza 0568M is coming up in Pebble Beach > auction this fall...? Yes, it was in Christie's auction Sunday night. Have seen some of the responses to the above, and can try to clear up the confusion over "The Pebble Beach Auction". There were three (3) auctions in the area last weeekend. 13th Annual Monterey Sports Car Auction at the Doubletree Hotel in Monterey on Friday and Saturday nights. Brooks Auction at Quail Lodge in Carmel Valley on Saturday night. Christie's Pebble Beach Auction at the Equestrian Center in Pebble Beach on Sunday night. 0568 was in the Christie's Auction. From cak Wed Aug 19 08:48:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA05919; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:48:31 -0700 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p7.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.7]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02750 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:47:52 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <35DAF352.702C467@worldonline.nl> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:46:26 +0200 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: Felber Ferrari / Daytona question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by luna.worldonline.nl id RAA02750 Hi, One week ago I visited the AvD Oldtimer GP at the N=FCrburgring in German= y. There I saw a special 'recreation', based on a Ferrari 330 GTC. When the owner = (Rolf L=F6big ?) opened the hood, I saw that it had chassisnumber 9107 and engi= ne number 9879. I also heard that the body was built by a Swiss firm called FELBER.= Felber probably produced two more cars with a similar body. Does anyone of you h= as more information about this car ?? I've placed a few pictures of this car on my website. It looks like a 'bu= ggy' version of a 125 S / 166 SC, or like a strange Lotus Super Seven with a F= errari sign on it. Nice car if it didn't have the Ferrari logo on it .... The address: http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/ferrari/60/felber.htm One more question: there was also a dark grey 365 GTB/4 Daytona. When I l= ooked on the steering column, I saw a plate which indicated that it was chassis= number 14249. But there was also a plate which said that the engine number was '= B920'. Does anybody know what this means ?? For those who are interested, there were about 200 Ferraris present at th= is meeting including: 860 Monza, 750 Monza, 250 TdF, 250 SWB (2x), 250 GTO, = 250 GT Drogo Coup=E9, 250 California Spider Replica, 250 GT/E, 250 GT Cabriolet,= 250 GT Coup=E9, 250 GT Lusso Prototipo, 250 LM, 275 GTB Shortnose and 7 Daytona'= s. And many, many others ....... Regards, Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 =20 7608 NA Almelo =20 The Netherlands =20 Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/ferrari/60/ From cak Wed Aug 19 11:43:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA06675; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:43:54 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:43:54 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199808191843.LAA06675@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: John Elliott? I've received an (implicit) suggestion from David Booth that John Elliott join the list ... anyone know this fellow and wish to vote one way or the other? He owns a Series I 330 GT, s/n 5759. From cak Wed Aug 19 13:08:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA06939; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:08:14 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust6.tnt3.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.17.6]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA09170; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:07:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35DB5A9D.1DF0@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:07:09 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Edvar van Daalen CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Felber Ferrari / Daytona question References: <35DAF352.702C467@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net id NAA09170 Edvar van Daalen wrote: >=20 > One week ago I visited the AvD Oldtimer GP at the N=FCrburgring in Germ= any. There I saw a special 'recreation', based on a Ferrari 330 GTC. When= the owner (Rolf L=F6big ?) opened the hood, I saw that it had chassisnum= ber 9107 and engine number 9879. I also heard that the body was built by = a Swiss firm called FELBER. Felber probably produced two more cars with a= similar body. Does anyone of you has more information about this car ?? >=20 See pages 258-259 of Fitzgerald, Merritt & Thompson, fourth edition.=20 Marcel Massini is preparing an article on these cars for the Ferrari Market Letter. > One more question: there was also a dark grey 365 GTB/4 Daytona. When I= looked > on the steering column, I saw a plate which indicated that it was chass= isnumber > 14249. But there was also a plate which said that the engine number was= 'B920'. > Does anybody know what this means ?? >=20 ALL Ferraris have ALWAYS had separately numbered engines. Up until the early 1970's Ferrari also stamped the chassis number on the engine.=20 This practice (i.e. matching numbers) ended during the production run of the 365 GTB/4 and 365 GTC/4. So Ferrari 365 GTB/4 chassis number 14249 has a B-type engine number 920. A brief explanation of Ferrari's numbering system can be found in the latest issue of the Ferrari Market Letter. For those who are interested, there were about 200 Ferraris present at this meeting including: 860 Monza, 750 Monza, 250 TdF, 250 SWB (2x), 250 GTO, 250 GT Drogo Coup=E9, 250 California Spider Replica, 250 GT/E, 250 G= T Cabriolet, 250 GT Coup=E9, 250 GT Lusso Prototipo, 250 LM, 275 GTB Shortnose and 7 Daytona's. And many, many others ....... >=20 Any serial numbers? > Regards, >=20 > Edvar >=20 > -- > "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari > -- >=20 > Edvar van Daalen > Den Bramel 20 > 7608 NA Almelo > The Netherlands >=20 > Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 > Email : daalen@worldonline.nl > Homepage : http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/ferrari/60/ From cak Wed Aug 19 13:11:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA06961; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:11:17 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust6.tnt3.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.17.6]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA12064 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35DB5B79.BA8@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:10:49 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Pebble Beach Auction... References: <199808160406.HAA27163@happi.hut.fi> <35DAFFD5.4EC0@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gerald Roush wrote: > > Kare M A Pietil{ wrote: > > > > Can anyone confirm that 750 Monza 0568M is coming up in Pebble Beach > > auction this fall...? > > Yes, it was in Christie's auction Sunday night. High bid (as yet not confirmed) was reported to be $900,000. Car was a no sale. From cak Wed Aug 19 18:53:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA08546; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:53:40 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd17-138.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.208.138]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA10624; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:51:24 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDCBB3.20F12120.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion To: "'ferrmktltr@earthlink.net'" , "ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Subject: RE: Pebble Beach Auction... Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:25:52 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now. I know I HAVE to get there one of these years! Regards, Bryan On Wednesday, August 19, 1998 11:40 AM, Gerald Roush [SMTP:ferrmktltr@earthlink.net] wrote: > the confusion over "The Pebble Beach Auction". There were three (3) > auctions in the area last weeekend. > > 13th Annual Monterey Sports Car Auction at the Doubletree Hotel in > Monterey on Friday and Saturday nights. > > Brooks Auction at Quail Lodge in Carmel Valley on Saturday night. > > Christie's Pebble Beach Auction at the Equestrian Center in Pebble Beach > on Sunday night. From cak Wed Aug 19 18:53:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA08549; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:53:49 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd17-138.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.208.138]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA10777; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:51:36 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDCBB3.27E140A0.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion To: "'Chris Kantarjiev'" , "ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Subject: RE: John Elliott? Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:30:09 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What else do we know about John? That said, I trust David's judegement. Regards, Bryan On Wednesday, August 19, 1998 1:44 PM, Chris Kantarjiev [SMTP:cak@dimebank.com] wrote: > I've received an (implicit) suggestion from David Booth that John Elliott > join the list ... anyone know this fellow and wish to vote one way > or the other? He owns a Series I 330 GT, s/n 5759. > From cak Wed Aug 19 18:55:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA08565; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:55:10 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd17-138.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.208.138]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA11659; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:54:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:52:53 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDCBB3.559D5240.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion To: "'Edvar van Daalen'" , "'Ferrari Vintage List'" Subject: RE: Felber Ferrari / Daytona question Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:52:47 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Do they do this every year? Are there always this many Ferraris? This=20 would be a great followup or lead-in to Monza. I'm surprised though that the factory allows something like this to = carry=20 all the insignia. At least re-bodied GTEs still end up as SWBs. I = don't=20 think the Felber represents any true Ferrari model... Nice photos, Edvar. Are they scanned from traditional hardcopy photos = or a=20 digital camera? RE: B290. Perhaps the 'numero interno'? The number assigned to the = engine=20 until it was installed in a chassis and stamped with the chassis number. = This practice ended sometime during the Daytona run, I believe. Maybe = the=20 engine number remained on the block after that. P.S. I wish I could enhance sections of your 3rd photo. I see all sorts = of=20 interesting cars in the background! Regards, Bryan On Wednesday, August 19, 1998 10:46 AM, Edvar van Daalen=20 [SMTP:daalen@worldonline.nl] wrote: > Hi, > > One week ago I visited the AvD Oldtimer GP at the N=FCrburgring in = Germany.=20 There > I saw a special 'recreation', based on a Ferrari 330 GTC. When the = owner=20 (Rolf > L=F6big ?) opened the hood, I saw that it had chassisnumber 9107 and = engine=20 number > 9879. I also heard that the body was built by a Swiss firm called = FELBER.=20 Felber > probably produced two more cars with a similar body. Does anyone of = you=20 has more > information about this car ?? > > I've placed a few pictures of this car on my website. It looks like a=20 'buggy' > version of a 125 S / 166 SC, or like a strange Lotus Super Seven with = a=20 Ferrari > sign on it. Nice car if it didn't have the Ferrari logo on it .... > > The address: = http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/ferrari/60/felber.htm > > One more question: there was also a dark grey 365 GTB/4 Daytona. When = I=20 looked > on the steering column, I saw a plate which indicated that it was=20 chassisnumber > 14249. But there was also a plate which said that the engine number = was=20 'B920'. > Does anybody know what this means ?? > > For those who are interested, there were about 200 Ferraris present at = this > meeting including: 860 Monza, 750 Monza, 250 TdF, 250 SWB (2x), 250 = GTO,=20 250 GT > Drogo Coup=E9, 250 California Spider Replica, 250 GT/E, 250 GT = Cabriolet,=20 250 GT > Coup=E9, 250 GT Lusso Prototipo, 250 LM, 275 GTB Shortnose and 7 = Daytona's.=20 And > many, many others ....... > > Regards, > > Edvar > > -- > "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari > -- > > Edvar van Daalen > Den Bramel 20 > 7608 NA Almelo > The Netherlands > > Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 > Email : daalen@worldonline.nl > Homepage : http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/ferrari/60/=00=00 From cak Thu Aug 20 09:52:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA00936; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:52:41 -0700 Received: from bdb1 ([195.121.20.39]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with SMTP id AAA4865; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:52:01 +0200 Message-ID: <35DC53F6.54B9@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:51:02 +0200 From: Bert de Boer Reply-To: fer340am@wxs.nl Organization: World Access X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-WXS-16 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Edvar van Daalen CC: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: Re: Felber Ferrari / Daytona question References: <35DAF352.702C467@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Edvar, Some additional information about Felber who made the car we saw at the Nurburgring. Willy Felber who lives in Switzerland was a Ferrari, Rolls-Royce and Lotus dealer in Morges near Lausanne. In 1974 he started to change cars to his taste. He re-bodied several Ferrari's 330 GTC and rebuild them like a kind of Lotus Seven. He even brought the cars to Geneva and sold them. He also cut of roofs from Lancia's and rebuild the noses of Buick Skylarks (which were sold as Felber Pacha's). After a while he discoverd that people were looking for special Range Rovers and that was his next project. Till 1981 Felber has rebuild about 150 cars. At the moment he and his son in law are a dealer for Alfa Romeo, Subaru and Maserati. At least one of the Felber Ferrari's was seen in Germany with the plate 'D-RE 931' In Edvar's report one of the highlights, for me, is missing. At one of the parkingplaces there was a marvelous looking FIAT 642 RN2 from 1956. It's one of the transporters used by the Scuderia to transport there cars. At the transporter there was a 860 Monza. Because the transporter had some Dunlop stickers at the side of the car I checked the tires of the Monza and they were indeed Dunlop. Really great looking car. Bert de Boer From cak Thu Aug 20 10:00:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA00965; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:00:03 -0700 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p125.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.125]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA09093; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:59:28 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <35DC5504.EEF3BC77@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:55:32 +0200 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Kantarjiev , Ferrari Vintage List Subject: Re: John Elliott? References: <199808191843.LAA06675@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Kantarjiev wrote: > I've received an (implicit) suggestion from David Booth that John Elliott > join the list ... anyone know this fellow and wish to vote one way > or the other? He owns a Series I 330 GT, s/n 5759. I know him from the 'other' mailing list and I think he knows a lot about the older cars, especially the 330 and 365 series. I've also seen some articles written by him in e.g. "Telaio" (the enthousiast-chassisnumber magazine) and in "Forza". He has also sent me some pictures of his car, and these can be seen (incl. the history of his car) at my own site: http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/ferrari/60/owners.htm http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/ferrari/60/ow5759.htm (the first is a page with all the Ferrari owners who are subscribed to the Ferrari Mailing List and the second is the page with all the info about # 5759.) I'm looking forward to welcome him on this list! Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/ferrari/60/ From cak Thu Aug 20 10:00:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA00973; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:00:15 -0700 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p125.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.125]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA09138; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:59:35 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <35DC5589.6315A442@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:57:45 +0200 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bryan Cashion CC: "'Ferrari Vintage List'" Subject: Re: Felber Ferrari / Daytona question References: <01BDCBB3.559D5240.cashion@sprynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bryan Cashion wrote: > Do they do this every year? Are there always this many Ferraris? This > would be a great followup or lead-in to Monza. Yes, the AvD Oldtimer GP is held every year in August (this was the 26th edition). There are many, many carclubs over there, including Porsche, Corvette, Jaguar, MG, Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin, Viper, about 44 other clubs and of course the Ferrari Club Germany. There were 11 different race-classes, including Sportscars 1950-1960 (Maserati, AM, Ferrari etc), Formula Junior 1950-1963, Pre-war -1940 (BMW, Alfa etc), Le Mans cars 1964-1974 (Lola, Chevron etc), SuperSport 1966-1974 (McLaren etc), F1 1966-1985 (3-liter). Maybe it's nice to tell you about different Ferrari meetings here in Europe. First of all, you have to know that there are many, many meetings. Some of them are organised by their national Ferrari Club (FCN, FOC, FCD etc.) and some are really BIG meetings (different clubs). At the 'small' meetings, there are mostly between 50 and 200 Ferraris. And to name a few of the very large meetings (incl. guess of total number of present Ferraris): - Great Britain, Coys International Historic Festival, July (650+) - Germany, Ferrari Racing Days, July (500+) - Belgium, Spa Ferrari Days, May (250+) How about the USA ?? > I'm surprised though that the factory allows something like this to carry > all the insignia. At least re-bodied GTEs still end up as SWBs. I don't > think the Felber represents any true Ferrari model... I heard that Felber produced three of these 'Jaguar 100 SS-style' cars (red, black and blue), one beach-car for an oil-sheik and one shooting break. Use your fantasy ... :-( > Nice photos, Edvar. Are they scanned from traditional hardcopy photos or a > digital camera? Just from hardcopy. These pics are scanned very quickly, so the quality is not the best. A digital camera is easier in use, but they are still very expensive and the 'printed output' depends on the quality of your colour printer. Perhaps a colour laserprinter ?? > P.S. I wish I could enhance sections of your 3rd photo. I see all sorts of > interesting cars in the background! I'll soon send a complete list of all the cars present at this meeting. And I'll also try to publish some pictures on the web. Probably not on my own 'old' website, but on a very new and very big site I'm working on. But I'll tell you more about it in the first week of September :-) Greetings, Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/ferrari/60/ From cak Thu Aug 20 10:00:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA00966; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:00:06 -0700 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p125.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.125]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA09122 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:59:32 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <35DC5526.6791C6DD@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:56:06 +0200 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: Re: Felber Ferrari / Daytona question References: <35DAF352.702C467@worldonline.nl> <35DB5A9D.1DF0@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gerald Roush wrote: > Felber probably produced two more cars with a similar body. > Does anyone of you has more information about this car ?? > > > See pages 258-259 of Fitzgerald, Merritt & Thompson, fourth edition. This is one of the MUST-HAVE-books I don't have yet !!! First of all, can somebody perhaps mail this info to me ?? (only the Felber info) And because I know that it is a very good book, I want to buy it sooner of later. I heard that there are several editions, but are there many differences between these editions ?? And which edition is the best ?? And thanks for all the info regarding the enginenumber of the Daytona! > Any serial numbers? Yes, but I'm still working on the complete list. I want to remove some of the gaps and then I'll send it to this mailing list (that will be soon!). Greetings, Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/ferrari/60/ From cak Thu Aug 20 13:40:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA01913; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:40:05 -0700 Received: from boss.worldnet.att.net ([12.64.114.244]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19980820203929.HXIR13203@boss.worldnet.att.net>; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:39:29 +0000 Message-ID: <35DC892B.462058BF@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:38:03 -0700 From: David Booth Organization: Boothrafters, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bryan Cashion CC: "'Chris Kantarjiev'" , "ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Subject: Re: John Elliott? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <01BDCBB3.27E140A0.cashion@sprynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Group: John somehow got wind of the VF group from that post a week or so ago regarding front wheel bearing grease seals. I think Brian may have posted the original message. I actually have only exchanged a couple of posts with him on the topic of parts sources. He has a four-headlight 330 2+2 which must earn him extra karmic points. I believe his car was at Ferrari On Rodeo last year. In the couple of posts we've exchanged, he seems okay and into his car, but that's really all I can contribute. Dave Booth Bryan Cashion wrote: > What else do we know about John? That said, I trust David's > judegement. > > Regards, > Bryan > > On Wednesday, August 19, 1998 1:44 PM, Chris Kantarjiev > [SMTP:cak@dimebank.com] wrote: > > I've received an (implicit) suggestion from David Booth that John > Elliott > > join the list ... anyone know this fellow and wish to vote one way > > or the other? He owns a Series I 330 GT, s/n 5759. > > From cak Thu Aug 20 13:52:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA01958; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:52:12 -0700 Received: from localhost by verdi.engr.utk.edu with SMTP (SMI-8.6/2.8s-UTK.UTCC) id QAA18736; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:51:30 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:51:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Erik Nielsen To: vintage ferrari Subject: cavallino rampante Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII quick question, which is the proper horse to put on the grill of my 365 gt4 2+2. the pinifarina pictures i have show one there, but not with enough detail to make out if it is a sculpted horse or the flat one. thanks, erik 18759 From cak Thu Aug 20 19:37:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA04055; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:37:07 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad35-179.arl.compuserve.com [199.174.138.179]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA23609; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:34:48 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDCC82.5B1BB840.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion To: "'Erik Nielsen'" , vintage ferrari Subject: RE: cavallino rampante Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:29:14 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Erik: review through my library shows the sculpted version. Interestingly, the 400 doesn't seem to have this symbol on the grill. Regards, Bryan On Thursday, August 20, 1998 3:51 PM, Erik Nielsen [SMTP:nielsen@verdi.engr.utk.edu] wrote: > quick question, which is the proper horse to put on the grill of my 365 > gt4 2+2. the pinifarina pictures i have show one there, but not with > enough detail to make out if it is a sculpted horse or the flat one. > thanks, > erik > 18759 From cak Thu Aug 20 19:37:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA04049; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:36:59 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (ad35-179.arl.compuserve.com [199.174.138.179]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA23512; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:36:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:34:37 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDCC82.54B05920.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion To: "'Edvar van Daalen'" Cc: "'Ferrari Vintage List'" Subject: RE: Felber Ferrari / Daytona question Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:53:21 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I could kick myself. I lived in Belgium for three years and went to only 2 GPs, 2 Geneva shows, but NO antique car shows, and never hooked up with any clubs. Mea culpa. Regards, Bryan On Thursday, August 20, 1998 11:58 AM, Edvar van Daalen [SMTP:daalen@worldonline.nl] wrote: > > Yes, the AvD Oldtimer GP is held every year in August (this was the 26th > edition). There are many, many carclubs over there, including Porsche, Corvette, > Jaguar, MG, Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin, Viper, about 44 other clubs and of course > the Ferrari Club Germany. > > There were 11 different race-classes, including Sportscars 1950-1960 (Maserati, > AM, Ferrari etc), Formula Junior 1950-1963, Pre-war -1940 (BMW, Alfa etc), Le > Mans cars 1964-1974 (Lola, Chevron etc), SuperSport 1966-1974 (McLaren etc), F1 > 1966-1985 (3-liter). > > Maybe it's nice to tell you about different Ferrari meetings here in Europe. > First of all, you have to know that there are many, many meetings. Some of them > are organised by their national Ferrari Club (FCN, FOC, FCD etc.) and some are > really BIG meetings (different clubs). At the 'small' meetings, there are mostly > between 50 and 200 Ferraris. And to name a few of the very large meetings (incl. > guess of total number of present Ferraris): > - Great Britain, Coys International Historic Festival, July (650+) > - Germany, Ferrari Racing Days, July (500+) > - Belgium, Spa Ferrari Days, May (250+) > Greetings, > > Edvar > > -- > "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari > -- > > Edvar van Daalen > Den Bramel 20 > 7608 NA Almelo > The Netherlands > > Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 > Email : daalen@worldonline.nl > Homepage : http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/ferrari/60/ From cak Fri Aug 21 05:08:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA05375; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 05:08:11 -0700 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p99.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.99]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06973 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:07:36 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <35DD6283.9D4D5BB6@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:05:23 +0200 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: AvD OGP: the list Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------509D70B4D483C1B382F98B55" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------509D70B4D483C1B382F98B55 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I have attached a TXT-file with all the Ferraris present at the AvD Oldtimer Grand Prix. The list is still incomplete, but I'm sure that the list which will appear in Telaio will be a lot more complete, thanks to the knowledge of Andreas Birner. In my mail I said that there was a 250 GTO, but it happened to be a #@%#$ replica !! When I was there with Bert de Boer and my brother Arvid, they already 'thought' that it wasn't an original one .. they were right about that ! Enjoy the list !! Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/ferrari/60/ --------------509D70B4D483C1B382F98B55 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name="Avdogp.txt" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Avdogp.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by luna.worldonline.nl id OAA06973 0470 MD 750 Monza red + stripe/black =20 0602 M 860 Monza (*1) red + white nose/d.grey NSK 350 G= B/D 1143 GT 250 GT Tour de France red + white str./brown =20 1669 GT 250 GT Coup=E9 sil.+green roof/d.green AC-070 = D 2327 GT 250 GT Cabriolet II silver/tan HS-Z 250 H D 2423 GT 250 GT Coup=E9 Drogo medium blue/tan HH-SB 16 H = D - 250 GT Berlinetta SWB red/red seats PD 753199 I 3401 GT 250 GT Berlinetta SWB red/tan 3849 GT 250 GT Lusso Prototipo silver/d.red HM-GT 250 D 4243 250 GTE / GTO rep.(RHD) red/blue seats 15 BD G= B 4515 250 GT/E red/black SI-JT 3 H D 06931 275 GTB Shortnose RHD red/black BOR-0722 D 8165 250 LM red + green nose 9107 330 GTC Felber (*2) red/black D-060133 D 9483 330 GT 2+2 black/black MS-HH 99 H D 9555 330 GTC red/black NV-76-LG N= L - 365 GT 2+2 red/cream B-062730 D - 365 GTB/4 "Daytona" green/red MK-06399 D 12313 250 GT Cal. Spi Replica red/black MYK-06998 D 13637 365 GTS/4 "Daytona"(*3) yellow/black GZ-06103 D= =20 14249 365 GTB/4 "Daytona" d. grey/black MK-HR 111 D 15449 365 GTS/4 "Daytona"(*3) yellow/black G=F6-GT 365 = D 15523 365 GTB/4 "Daytona" red/tan WW-Y 365 D 15937 365 GTB/4 "Daytona" red/black MS-AY 111 D 16711 365 GTB/4 "Daytona" RHD medium blue/tan NTO 69 M G= B - 365 GTC/4 silver/black HG-DK 365 D 22253 512 BB red/black K-BB 512 D 22343 308 GTB US red/tan AC-06926 D 22893 308 GTB red/tan SZ 7225 C= H 23629 308 GTS d.blue/tan ZG 12099 C= H 25859 308 GTB silver/black N-G 66 D 27003 308 GTS red/black SZ 20459 C= H 27815 308 GTS silver/black BN-GR 1 D 29235 308 GTS yellow/black EU-CU 308 D 40669 Mondial 8 Coup=E9 US (*4) red/black BN-06345 = D 52887 400i silver/tan WI-06441 D 53755 288 GTO red/black =20 55163 288 GTO red/black MYK-06002 D 59659 328 GTS red/tan OF-TS 328 D 59681 328 GTS red/black BB-FE 32 D 60321 328 GTS red/black OF-FF 328 D 60561 328 GTS red/black GR-RP 111 D 64607 412 red/black SJ 960 L 64931 412 d. blue/tan WI-NY 49 D 67197 Mondial 3.2 Coup=E9 (*5) d.blue/cream MR-ET 328 = D 67723 328 GTB red/tan SO-X 328 D 68507 328 GTB red/black PS-X 17 D 72337 Testarossa red/black EN-KD 909 D 72409 Testarossa red/black B-NJ 222 D 72731 412 black/tan SB-AW 412 D 73839 Testarossa red/tan N= L 73953 328 GTB red/tan HD-WT 919 D 74349 328 GTS red/black WND-EZ 2 D 75173 328 GTB red/black SP 221 L 75906 328 GTS red/cream GB 328 L 76024 328 GTS US black/tan RD-AR 328 D 76193 Mondial 3.2 Coup=E9 (*5) red/tan AG 237327 = CH 76897 F40 red/black + red D-060143 D 76947 Mondial 3.2 Cabriolet red/tan HG-G 328 D 77174 328 GTB red/tan HB-PP-99 N= L 77682 328 GTB red/black S-CC 328 D 78131 328 GTS red/cream GL-MV 328 D 78211 Testarossa red/black LB-DL 275 D 78929 328 GTS red/black ME-F 328 D 79569 328 GTS red/black SU-EP 816 D 80167 328 GTB red/black WN-MJ 89 D 80531 Mondial T Coup=E9 red/black SIM-LD 84 = D 81381 328 GTS red/black KUS-F 328 D 81715 328 GTS US red/black LDK-JM 328 D 81758 328 GTB yellow/black BOR-T 7 D 81891 Testarossa red/black EU-F 309 D 82769 Testarossa red/black W-06120 D 83235 F40 red/black + red K-F 40 D 84456 F40 red/black + red N= L 84571 348 TB red/black R=9AD-LS 13 = D 84587 348 TB red/black EBE-Y 332 D 84604 348 TB red/black F-FD 243 D 84932 Testarossa red/black EBE-VX 2 D 86058 F40 red/black HO-F 40 D 86386 348 TS red/black B-MN 91 D 88439 Testarossa red/black NE-JN 602 D 88495 Mondial T Cabriolet black/black MK-L 666 D 88899 Testarossa red/black MTK-M 2 D 89370 F40 red/black + red BN-LK 1 D 89824 348 TS red/black HN-TD 348 D 90200 Testarossa red/black BOR-AE 81 D 91368 348 TB red/cream S=DCW-H 971 = D 91536 Mondial T Cabriolet yellow/black AC-PM 95 D 92505 512 TR red/black W-UP 700 D 92536 348 TB red/black ME-MP 40 D 92784 512 TR red/black KT-PF 7 D 92804 512 TR red/black W-BR 512 D 93555 Mondial T Cabriolet d.blue/tan GR 16362 C= H 93695 348 TB red/black WW-CH 767 D 94667 512 TR red/black FB-SE 512 D 94677 348 TS red/black PS-A 61 D 94822 348 TB red/tan OG-0633 D 95003 348 TS red/black UN-JS 54 D 95159 348 TB red/black AK-K 3 D 95483 512 TR red/black KL-U 665 D 95669 348 TS red/black A-KK 111 D 95687 348 TS red/black SL-AH 348 D 95919 512 TR red/black W-06003 D 95957 348 TB red/black MZ-F 3480 D 95974 348 TB red/black MH-DS 656 D 96025 348 TS red/black HG-HL 348 D 96129 348 TS red/black BB-SP 489 D 96130 348 TS red/cream BB-HP 348 D 96941 348 TS red/black + cream E-JE 91 D 97143 512 TR red/black MOS-EY 85 D 97145 512 TR red/black MYK-D 512 D 97364 512 TR red/tan M-TR 9229 D 97585 512 TR red/black DU-FF 512 D 97597 348 GTB red/black NR-XZ 80 D 97668 512 TR red/black LDK-06568 D 99308 512 TR red/black H-LT 347 D 99447 348 Spider yellow/black WAF-RJ 92 D 99450 512 TR red/black FL-M 512 D 99563 F355 GTS red/black EMS-AS 730 D 99782 F512 M black/black RO-0413 D 99891 456 GT black/grey RO-06710 D 99992 F512 M red/black KH-C 210 D 100027 F355 Berlinetta red/black GF-AH 355 D 100643 F355 Berlinetta red/black RT-NP 355 D 100694 F355 GTS red/black ME-F 48 D 101122 F512 M red/black W-HH 322 D 101137 F355 Berlinetta red/black MK-FP 355 D 101911 F512 M red/black ES-FM 512 D 102013 F355 GTS yellow/black M-W 5969 D 102040 F355 Spider d.red/black FFB-FS 355 D 102266 456 GT d.blue/black LB-T 184 D 102279 456 GT anthracite/black HF-RL 28 D 102422 F512 M red/black MK-FM 512 D 102472 F355 Berlinetta red/black M-HR 215 D 102519 F355 Berlinetta red/black HS-KW 355 D 102823 F355 Berlinetta red/black UN-GS 355 D 102834 F355 GTS red/black MTK-F 355 D 103375 F355 GTS yellow/black M-CM 660 D 103376 F355 GTS black/d.red MS-SK 131 D 104179 F355 Berlinetta red/black + red DA-N 222 D 104222 F355 Berlinetta red/black KH-06200 D 104987 F355 Berlinetta red/black K-NT 355 D 105402 F355 GTS red/black FL-G 355 D 105732 F355 Berlinetta red/black GE-B 355 D 105917 F355 Berlinetta red/black NR-DD 355 D 106167 F355 Spider red/black S-AG 355 D 106371 F355 Berlinetta red/black + red WI-06622 D 106496 F355 Berlinetta red/black BO-WU 355 D 106594 F355 GTS red/black DAU-WB 3 D 106735 F50 red/black D-06155 D 107172 F355 Berlinetta red/tan EN-F 355 D 107320 F355 GTS red/black JFS.964 B 107321 F355 GTS red/black RE-SG 10 D 107505 F355 Berlinetta red/black WI-XX 355 D 108182 F355 Spider red/black HG-CX 355 D 108234 550 Maranello red/black BOR-F 1 D 108242 F355 Spider red/black MS-KF 355 D 109027 550 Maranello silver/d.red GR 47354 C= H 109618 F355 Spider red/black M-ST 139 D 109729 F355 GTS red/black TUT-FW 355 D 110752 F355 Spider yellow/black OA-M 40 D 110835 550 Maranello red/black BN-DL 115 D 111250 550 Maranello red/black DA-JH 133 D 111152 550 Maranello black/black E-SF 550 D 111440 F355 Spider red/black DN-06401 D 111516 355 F1 GTS black/d.red RE-TK 993 D 111719 F355 Spider red/black MYK-SF 55 D 112081 F355 GTS red/black H-DR 355 D 112093 355 F1 GTS d.blue/d.red TF-HS-35 N= L 112153 355 F1 GTS red/black RE-X 355 D 112353 F355 Berlinetta silver/black HH-FF 165 D 112472 355 F1 Spider d.blue/tan WI-F 355 D 112545 F355 GTS titan/grey GL-XT 82 D 112611 550 Maranello silver/black KR-SF 550 D 113207 355 F1 GTS red/black MYK-AZ 533 D 113557 355 F1 Berlinetta red/black WI-V 355 D - Dino 246 GT red/black AG 9896 U C= H - Dino 246 GT red/black MS-AY 112 D - Dino 246 GT red/black 3777 VC 84 F - Dino 246 GT yellow/black F-UF 30 D - Dino 246 GT dino red/black AL-D 246 D - Dino 246 GTS red/tan HP-AJ 1 D - Dino 246 GTS red/black MK-SF 246 D 01706 Dino 246 GT yellow/black BN-0701 D 04608 Dino 246 GT red/black UN-WS 11 D 06588 Dino 246 GT red/black B-06698 D 06930 Dino 246 GT yellow/black F-AR 440 D 07284 Dino 246 GTS red/tan + black ZH 94896 C= H 09174 Dino 308 GT4 red/cream LAU-LK 308 D 13920 Dino 308 GT4 d.blue/cream LBZ.998 B 14318 Dino 308 GT4 d.red/cream SU-TU 296 D 15526 Dino 308 GT4 red/tan HH-GT 308 D 15538 Dino 308 GT4 silver/black HG-CJ 308 D *1 parked on the Ferrari-truck *2 One of three recreations built by Swiss bodymaker Felber on the=20 chassis of a 330 GTC (#9107) and fitted with engine# 9879. Looks = like a buggy-style of the old 125 S. Probably owned by Rolf L=F6big (D= ). *3 Spider conversion *4 at the back with reg.plate MONDIAL (USA, Michigan) *5 with sunroof --------------509D70B4D483C1B382F98B55-- From cak Fri Aug 21 13:31:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA07170; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:31:18 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:31:18 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199808212031.NAA07170@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: here I go again Now I've received two unsolicited requests for membership in two days. I know we've been through this before, but ... the game is that you find someone who is a likely member and tell us about it first; not the other way around. For example, the message I just read is from someone who is "in the market for a Ferrari and has been thinking about changing his sights from a 308 to 330". I don't know this guy (John Rosevear), I don't know what he's like, and I don't think that people on this list are interested in dealing with the questions of a searcher - not *on the list*. (I always gladly answer people who find me via my web pages - that's not the issue.) Maybe I'm wrong. Anyone out there listening and care to voice an opinion? From cak Fri Aug 21 13:45:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA07264; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:45:41 -0700 Message-ID: <35DDDC75.F8CB2BDF@aratar.com> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:45:41 -0700 From: Pat Caruthers Organization: Aratar, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: here I go again References: <199808212031.NAA07170@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit my guess is that it will become increasingly difficult to keep the existance of this list a Secret. Unless the group makes a concerted effort to do that, which seems difficult. So, it seems likely that you'll get unsolicited requests now and then, just from folks who hear and want to join. i think you'll probably just have to accept those "leaks" as coming with the territory. unless, of course, these guys started their letters with "so-and-so told me to contact you".... pat Chris Kantarjiev wrote: > > Now I've received two unsolicited requests for membership in two days. > I know we've been through this before, but ... the game is that > you find someone who is a likely member and tell us about it first; > not the other way around. > For example, the message I just read is from someone who is "in the > market for a Ferrari and has been thinking about changing his sights > from a 308 to 330". I don't know this guy (John Rosevear), I don't know > what he's like, and I don't think that people on this list are > interested in dealing with the questions of a searcher - not *on the > list*. (I always gladly answer people who find me via my web pages - > that's not the issue.) > > Maybe I'm wrong. > > Anyone out there listening and care to voice an opinion? From cak Fri Aug 21 15:00:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA07726; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:00:48 -0700 Received: from localhost by verdi.engr.utk.edu with SMTP (SMI-8.6/2.8s-UTK.UTCC) id SAA21420; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:00:12 -0400 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:00:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Erik Nielsen To: vintage ferrari Subject: misc stuff. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII thanks to all that responded to the emblem question. i'll order the sculpted one monday. i've got the 365 for sale, i've been offered a once in a life time ferrari instead. i won't get into details because, honestly, i'm afraid that some one else will jump on it soon. does anyone know how to rebuild a cigarette lighted for the 330 gtc. i took it apart and cleaned all the contacts, but i still can't get the thing to work. as far as membership on this list. the otheer one is going to be flooded en mass after the latest issue of forza hits the stand. we still should keep this as quiet as possible, but those of us that are into the older ones should keep our eyes open for potential members. other comments? erik 18759 59899 (next week) From cak Fri Aug 21 16:19:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA08131; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:19:11 -0700 Received: from sprynet.com (hd59-003.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.239.3]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03476; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35DDFFDD.4D5F9126@sprynet.com> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:16:45 -0500 From: Bryan Cashion X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Kantarjiev CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: here I go again References: <199808212031.NAA07170@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with you, Chris. John is on the other list and is a nice fellow, but that's not what this list is about. I also suspect that he will get a good response from that list; hence, we really would not add any value to his search anyway! We probably need to remember that we should be very careful about referencing this list in notes that go to broader distribution...to the point of sending things out twice. P.S. A question about wheels...just to make this legitimate! The Cromodoras on my 365 GTC/4 are knock-offs, but the hubs do not have 'ears' but an octagonal nut instead. What can people tell me about why there would be two types of hubs? I am reasonably certain that mine are OEM. Chris Kantarjiev wrote: > > Now I've received two unsolicited requests for membership in two days. > I know we've been through this before, but ... the game is that > you find someone who is a likely member and tell us about it first; > not the other way around. > > For example, the message I just read is from someone who is "in the > market for a Ferrari and has been thinking about changing his sights > from a 308 to 330". I don't know this guy (John Rosevear), I don't know > what he's like, and I don't think that people on this list are > interested in dealing with the questions of a searcher - not *on the > list*. (I always gladly answer people who find me via my web pages - > that's not the issue.) > > Maybe I'm wrong. > > Anyone out there listening and care to voice an opinion? From cak Fri Aug 21 16:30:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA08168; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:30:25 -0700 Received: from sprynet.com (hd59-003.hil.compuserve.com [199.174.239.3]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA11238; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:29:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35DE0279.6CDCB1CE@sprynet.com> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:27:53 -0500 From: Bryan Cashion X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Erik Nielsen CC: vintage ferrari Subject: Re: misc stuff. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If it has only 8 cylinders, we may have to start an independent cousel to investigate what you are up to! Erik Nielsen wrote: > > thanks to all that responded to the emblem question. i'll order the > sculpted one monday. i've got the 365 for sale, i've been offered a once > in a life time ferrari instead. i won't get into details because, > honestly, i'm afraid that some one else will jump on it soon. does anyone > know how to rebuild a cigarette lighted for the 330 gtc. i took it apart > and cleaned all the contacts, but i still can't get the thing to work. > > erik > 18759 > 59899 (next week) From cak Fri Aug 21 17:17:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA08345; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:17:49 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:17:49 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199808220017.RAA08345@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: here I go again Knock-offs without ears are an Americanism; the DOT was worried about folks doing an Isadora Duncan and getting injured on the protrusions. The British manufacturers all converted to octagonal nuts and funny wrenches at some point in the 70s; I can probably find out exactly when if need be. I wasn't aware that Ferraris were imported that way, though it makes sense now that I think about it. I guess I figured that they went straight from knock-offs to lug nuts. Then again ... the "wheel torque kit" that Stainless Steel Brakes sells has an option for a different kind of socket. Maybe it's an octagonal one! I don't remember. From cak Sat Aug 22 03:27:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id DAA09917; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 03:27:52 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust24.tnt4.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.41.24]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA08427; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 03:27:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35DEC739.33D2@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:27:21 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bryan Cashion CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: here I go again References: <199808212031.NAA07170@bosphorus.dimebank.com> <35DDFFDD.4D5F9126@sprynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Your "knock-off" hubs don't have ears because of U.S.A. safety regulations, i.e. Ralph Nader types figured those ears spinning out there were a danger to pedestrians! I think they watched the movie Ben Hur too many times. Bryan Cashion wrote: > > P.S. A question about wheels...just to make this legitimate! The > Cromodoras on my 365 GTC/4 are knock-offs, but the hubs do not have > 'ears' but an octagonal nut instead. What can people tell me about why > there would be two types of hubs? I am reasonably certain that mine are > OEM. > From cak Sat Aug 22 03:38:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id DAA09949; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 03:38:27 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust24.tnt4.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.41.24]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA10086; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 03:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35DEC9B5.4EC9@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:37:57 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Kantarjiev CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: here I go again References: <199808220017.RAA08345@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wasn't aware that Ferraris were imported that way, though it makes sense now that I think about it. Yes, all USA specification Ferraris with knock-off wheels, starting with the 365 GTB/4 and 365 GTC/4 through the Testarossa were originally so equipped. But, of course, there were no USA specification Boxers. However, to properly legalize a gray market car with knock-off wheels it was a requirement to change the knock-offs to the octagonal ones. A further question is - do the IAC/PFA concours judges, who can get real picky about originality when it comes to such minute details as hose clamps, pay attention to the type and style of knock-off? Shouldn't they be deducting points for a USA specification 365 GTC/4 with eared knock-offs? That's not original equipment! From cak Sat Aug 22 03:43:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id DAA09965; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 03:43:15 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust24.tnt4.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.41.24]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA10851; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 03:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35DECAD3.2503@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:42:43 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Erik Nielsen CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: cavallino rampante References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check the Ferrari Yearbook 1993 for the official Ferrari factory version of the history of the prancing horse emblem and which version was used during certain years. Erik Nielsen wrote: > > quick question, which is the proper horse to put on the grill of my 365 > gt4 2+2. the pinifarina pictures i have show one there, but not with > enough detail to make out if it is a sculpted horse or the flat one. > thanks, > erik > 18759 From cak Sat Aug 22 12:38:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA01369; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:38:05 -0700 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p70.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.70]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA20107; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:37:26 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <35DF1D90.5D9A81F2@worldonline.nl> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:35:44 +0200 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Erik Nielsen CC: vintage ferrari Subject: Re: misc stuff. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Erik Nielsen wrote: > .. > i won't get into details because, honestly, i'm afraid that some one else > will jump on it soon. > .. > 59899 (next week) Bryan Cashion wrote: > If it has only 8 cylinders, we may have to start an independent cousel > to investigate what you are up to! Don't want to mess up the fun, but all I can say is that 59899 is a 328 GTS (red/black). In 1988 owned by Tammy Honeycutt and reported with "European Mod". These two words may be a clue to the 'once in a life time offering' ... :-) I'm really curious !! Edvar From cak Sat Aug 22 19:25:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA02343; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:25:13 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (dd53-092.dub.compuserve.com [199.174.184.92]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA26419 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:22:44 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDCE13.0071CB40.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: Fuel leak? Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:21:52 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As I started the car today (which has NOT run in some time...another story) I got a lot of fuel running out of the rearmost Weber on the left side. If the float were to stick so that it did not shut off the fuel from the pumps, where would it overflow? There is not evidence of overflow on the top of the carb, but I could feel fuel beneath the carb. The fuel supply lines are tight. I'm wondering if the leak is from some overflow or if I have a gasket leak somewhere. Thanks for thoughts. Regards, Bryan From cak Sun Aug 23 06:59:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA03952; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 06:59:50 -0700 Received: from gummybear (as001-5248-vt046.boston.ma.compuserve.net [205.156.251.46]) by m8.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA24212 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 06:59:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Suzanne & Bob Grudem" To: Subject: Boston-area Ferraristi? Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:03:08 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdce9e$c1d10ea0$2efb9ccd@gummybear> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Is anyone on this list in the Boston area? I just moved here a couple of weeks ago. My car is going to be shipped by covered transport, but the latest status (Thursday) was that it was still in Tacoma, WA. Perhaps it will be here in another few weeks. The shipper (DAS -- Dependable Auto Shippers) tells me it's not uncommon for such a delay. They already sent one car in good time. Bob From cak Sun Aug 23 07:08:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA03979; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 07:08:51 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust192.tnt4.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.41.192]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA13545 for ; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 07:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35E04C84.7380@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:08:20 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: misc stuff. References: <35DF1D90.5D9A81F2@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 328 GTS S/N 59899, 1985 European model Offered 1987 by Tammy Honeycutt, Myrtle Beach, SC. Red with black interior. One owner. 10,500 mi. (FML 1226). Offered 1992 by Mark Hughes, Lancaster, OH. Red with black interior. Sheepskin seat covers, Kenwood stereo, owner's and shop service manuals, tools, complete service. Second owner, excellent condition. 24,000 mi. (FML 1724). Offered again 1993. 25,000 mi. (FML 1817). > Erik Nielsen wrote: > > .. i won't get into details because, honestly, i'm afraid that some one else will jump on it soon. > > .. > > 59899 (next week) > From cak Sun Aug 23 09:31:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA04296; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:31:15 -0700 Received: from blockton ([12.64.114.22]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19980823163042.JDEL8466@blockton>; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:30:42 +0000 Message-ID: <35E0424D.E901FC01@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:24:45 -0700 From: David Booth Reply-To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bryan Cashion CC: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Fuel leak? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <01BDCE13.0071CB40.cashion@sprynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bryan: Sounds like a stuck float valve to me. When untreated fuel sits in the carbs for as while, it evaporates, leaving varnish deposits behind, so a stuck float valve may not be your only problem. When I got my cab, it hadn't been run in almost two years and all three carbs were badly mucked up. When being pushed by both the electric and mechanical pumps, the fuel will leak from all kinds of amazing places and in prodigious amounts -- all of them in the lower half of the carb body. Clearly an unhealthy situation for both car and owner. The good news is that the float valves not that difficult to unstick, and you can set the float heights at the same time. Allen Bishop's slim volume, "Ferrari Guide to Performance" has a great, well-illustrated section on rebuilding Webers. Let me know if you need more help. Dave Booth Bryan Cashion wrote: > As I started the car today (which has NOT run in some time...another > story) > I got a lot of fuel running out of the rearmost Weber on the left > side. If > the float were to stick so that it did not shut off the fuel from the > pumps, where would it overflow? There is not evidence of overflow on > the > top of the carb, but I could feel fuel beneath the carb. The fuel > supply > lines are tight. I'm wondering if the leak is from some overflow or > if I > have a gasket leak somewhere. Thanks for thoughts. > > Regards, > Bryan From cak Sun Aug 23 18:26:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA05505; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 18:26:02 -0700 Received: by krypton.woodside.com.au; id JAA00199; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:19:55 +0800 Received: from perm01.woodside.com.au(158.89.192.53) by krypton.woodside.com.au via smap (4.0a) id xma000163; Mon, 24 Aug 98 09:19:21 +0800 Received: by perm01.woodside.com.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:23:14 +0800 Message-ID: <11C957791F80D111978500805F859380915253@perm03.woodside.com.au> From: "LaVelle, Kelly K." To: "'Vint List'" Subject: repaint hints/new members Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:23:04 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Just to kill two topics with one e-mail, here's (a) a request for other's opinions and (b) mine, FWIW. (a) Tomorrow I will get a couple of quotes on repainting my 365GT 2+2. The basic plan at this stage is to strip paint to bare metal and carry out whatever corrosion repairs are required, then repaint in two-pack. The engine and interior will stay in the car, but I plan to remove all external trim (obviously) and fit new badges, door handles and rubber seals. So here's the question - should the front and rear screens come out? I am worried that if these are broken in the removal process, I'll be stuck for replacement items - what do other listians think? Any opinions/advice on this whole process are most welcome - I'm feeling a bit nervous about undertaking this task and can't even decide on the best paint-stripping method yet ... (b) possible members; I guess if Chris can put up with the odd burst of requests, that's tolerable. We might turn up some genuine owner/enthusiasts. What I wouldn't support is extending list membership to those who current own V8 cars who are merely 'considering' buying a V12 ... 99% of the time these people aren't really serious and are merely Testarossa wannabes. Their general queries can probably be adequately dealt with on the 'other' list. As a way of keeping this list fairly private I'll post a slightly re-worded version of part A of this mail to the 'other' list; cross-postings are a bit obvious. Kelly s/n 12009 From cak Sun Aug 23 18:46:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA05562; Sun, 23 Aug 1998 18:46:29 -0700 Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 18:46:29 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199808240146.SAA05562@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: Kelly.LaVelle@woodside.com.au Subject: Re: repaint hints/new members Cc: ferrari-vintage Pull the glass. Otherwise you'll end up, five years down the road, seeing the seam where the paint didn't make it under the rubber. From cak Mon Aug 24 05:18:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA06909; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 05:18:15 -0700 Received: from localhost by verdi.engr.utk.edu with SMTP (SMI-8.6/2.8s-UTK.UTCC) id IAA26353; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:17:41 -0400 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:17:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Erik Nielsen To: vintage ferrari Subject: Re: misc stuff. In-Reply-To: <35DF1D90.5D9A81F2@worldonline.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII s/n 59899 is not the once in a life time ferrari purchase. oh no, i'm getting into deep water on this one. yes s/n 59899 is a 328 gts euro car. this car will be used as a daily driver until this winter at which point it will be going to ferrari of houston (and possibly doyle/risi racing) for extensive (but unobtrusive modifications) in preparation for car and driver's one lap of america compitition. i assure everyone, the once in a life time car is a v12 ferrari with two major historic points about it. i'll tell you what they are when the car comes home (and the legnthy restoration begins). erik From cak Mon Aug 24 11:16:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA08279; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:16:13 -0700 Received: by INET-IMC-05 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:15:41 -0700 Message-ID: From: Jeff Littrell To: Bryan Cashion , Chris Kantarjiev Cc: ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: here I go again Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:15:33 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) The octagon "knock offs" are the right ones for your C/4's Cromodoras. You should also have a large black wrench in your toolkit that can be pounded upon to tighten/remove those monsters. I have Boranis w/ eared knock offs on my car but Cromodoras w/ octagon "nuts" for track or correctness. -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Cashion [mailto:cashion@sprynet.com] Sent: Friday, August 21, 1998 4:17 PM To: Chris Kantarjiev Cc: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Subject: Re: here I go again I agree with you, Chris. John is on the other list and is a nice fellow, but that's not what this list is about. I also suspect that he will get a good response from that list; hence, we really would not add any value to his search anyway! We probably need to remember that we should be very careful about referencing this list in notes that go to broader distribution...to the point of sending things out twice. P.S. A question about wheels...just to make this legitimate! The Cromodoras on my 365 GTC/4 are knock-offs, but the hubs do not have 'ears' but an octagonal nut instead. What can people tell me about why there would be two types of hubs? I am reasonably certain that mine are OEM. Chris Kantarjiev wrote: > > Now I've received two unsolicited requests for membership in two days. > I know we've been through this before, but ... the game is that > you find someone who is a likely member and tell us about it first; > not the other way around. > > For example, the message I just read is from someone who is "in the > market for a Ferrari and has been thinking about changing his sights > from a 308 to 330". I don't know this guy (John Rosevear), I don't know > what he's like, and I don't think that people on this list are > interested in dealing with the questions of a searcher - not *on the > list*. (I always gladly answer people who find me via my web pages - > that's not the issue.) > > Maybe I'm wrong. > > Anyone out there listening and care to voice an opinion? From cak Mon Aug 24 11:32:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA08352; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:32:41 -0700 Received: from inner-relay-1.Adobe.COM (inner-relay-1.corp.adobe.com [153.32.1.51]) by smtp-relay-2.Adobe.COM (8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA03049; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:35:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-321.corp.Adobe.COM by inner-relay-1.Adobe.COM (8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA25005; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dulcinea by mail-321.corp.Adobe.COM (8.7.5) with SMTP id LAA27936; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35E1B1CA.46E2@adobe.com> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:32:42 -0700 From: Jeff Young Reply-To: jey@Adobe.COM Organization: Adobe Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LaVelle, Kelly K." CC: "'Vint List'" Subject: Re: repaint hints/new members References: <11C957791F80D111978500805F859380915253@perm03.woodside.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LaVelle, Kelly K. wrote: > > So here's the question - should the front and rear screens come out? I > am worried that if these are broken in the removal process, I'll be > stuck for replacement items - what do other listians think? > Yes, they should. Removal (especially if you're not reusing the seals) doesn't put much stress on the glass, so I wouldn't worry too much about breakage. -- Jeff. From cak Thu Sep 3 15:22:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA11326; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:22:21 -0700 Received: by mail4.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:20:52 -0700 Message-ID: From: Michael Bradley To: "'ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com'" Subject: 4599 GTE FS Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:20:51 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) The latest FML lists GTE 4599 for sale at $32,900 US. Its in Canada now. I thought I would post this to the list in case anybody was looking. I owned this car for 15 years. Sold it at the high point in 1989. Before I bought it I had looked at probably 50 GTEs and this was the best one I had seen. When I sold it had roughly 100 KM. It now apparently has 116 KM. I havent seen the car for 8 years (its been in Canada for 7) so I cant vouch for its condition today. I spoke to the owner (who I do not know) this week and it sounds like the car may be better shape then when I last saw it. For a GTE, the car had minimal rust (usual floor boards and rocker panels) which I fixed and had no evidence of accidents. It has never been "restored" so its far from perfects but it was very original apart from the wrong S/N on the engine (long story). I would be happy to provide some history if anyone is interested. Regards From cak Thu Sep 3 15:49:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA12011; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:49:10 -0700 Received: from loop.com (p14.hwts15.loop.net [207.211.62.239]) by ritchie.loop.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA26799 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:07:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35EB3B7A.7AACB6C6@loop.com> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:10:45 -0700 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@LOOP.COM Organization: Fairlight USA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re-Originals References: <199808181716.KAA01177@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I just got back from a whirlwind tour of Australia's central eastern coast, and in the mail was the Re-Original's catalog for Ferrari. I would suggest getting one as it lists some parts for all the older stuff, contact them on 281-807-1945. A while ago Harold Pace asked me about replacement headliner for the GT/E. These guy's have it, it's $48.00 / mt. Kelly asked me about replacement windshields, I had thought that Re-Originals had them, but it turns out that I was making this up, as they don't list it in the catalog. As for the comments regarding list members, or specifically how new ones are obtained, leave things the way they are I.E.: one of us has to nominate a new guy, someone else gets to second it. Regards, Andrew. From cak Thu Sep 3 15:55:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA12133; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:55:49 -0700 Received: from loop.com (p02.hwts10.loop.net [207.211.62.77]) by ritchie.loop.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA21339 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35EAE12D.CF463D80@loop.com> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:45:21 -0700 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@LOOP.COM Organization: Fairlight USA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vintage Ferrari Subject: Re-Originals Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I just got back from a whirlwind tour of Australia's central eastern coast, and in the mail was the Re-Original's catalog for Ferrari. I would suggest getting one as it lists some parts for all the older stuff, contact them on 281-807-1945. A while ago Harold Pace asked me about replacement headliner for the GT/E. These guy's have it, it's $48.00 / mt. Kelly asked me about replacement windshields, I had thought that Re-Originals had them, but it turns out that I was making this up, as they don't list it in the catalog. As for the comments regarding list members, or specifically how new ones are obtained, leave things the way they are I.E.: one of us has to nominate a new guy, someone else gets to second it. Regards, Andrew. From cak Thu Sep 3 18:20:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA12401; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:20:02 -0700 Received: from mailhub1.trw.com by mailhub1.trw.com (X.400 to RFC822 Gateway); Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:04:42 -0700 X400-Received: by mta MTATRW-West in /c=US/admd=telemail/prmd=TRW/; Relayed; 03 Sep 1998 16:04:41 -0700 X400-Received: by /c=US/admd=telemail/prmd=TRW/; Relayed; 03 Sep 1998 16:04:41 -0700 X400-MTS-Identifier: [/c=US/admd=telemail/prmd=TRW/; 0687F35EF2089110-MTATRW-West] Content-Identifier: 0687F35EF2089110 Content-Return: Allowed X400-Content-Type: P2-1988 ( 22 ) Conversion: Allowed Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text Priority: normal Disclose-Recipients: Prohibited Alternate-Recipient: Allowed X400-Originator: John.Elliott@trw.com X400-Recipients: non-disclosure; <0687F35EF2089110*/c=US/admd=telemail/prmd=trw/o=sp/ou=QuickMail/s=Elliott/g=John/@MHS> Date: 03 Sep 1998 16:04:41 -0700 From: John Elliott To: Vintage Ferrari (IPM Return requested) Subject: New Member Message-Id: <0687F35EF2089110*/c=US/admd=telemail/prmd=trw/o=sp/ou=QuickMail/s=Elliott/g=John/@MHS> Subject: Time: 2:27 PM OFFICE MEMO New Member Date: 8/21/98 I tried sending this last week, but the server has apparently been down. However, It appears to be up now so I'll try it again... Hi, My name is John Elliott and I'm a new member of the Vintage Ferrari List. I was referred to this list by a present member and was accepted. Up to a few days ago I must say that I had no hint that such a group existed, so your secrecy seems to be largely intact. I am also a member of the Ferrari List and, like many of you here I had become somewhat frustrated with that list's singular obsession with 308s and the later Ferraris. Granted, there are a heck of a lot more of them around than front engine V12s, but I have just never been that much interested in the more contemporary Ferrari models. I have a 1964 330 GT 2+2 (s/n 5759), which I acquired about a year and a half ago. Prior to that I had been driving a '57 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spyder, which was my introduction to Italian cars. My 330 has been a lot of fun and a lot of grief, most of the grief being a result of the odd twin booster braking system they put on the Series I (if anyone wants to know where NOT to get your brakes fixed, just ask!). At this point the car stops fairly reliably (if not very enthusiastically) and I have declared it safe to drive. If any of you has a similar braking system I'd be curious how well you feel it works. Anyway, the car is silver/red, although I believe it started life as a white car and then was painted red in the '70s before gaining its present color. Pictures and a bit of history on the car can be found on Edvar's web site at http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/ferrari/60/owners.htm (thanks again, Edvar!). Both cosmetically and mechanically the car is in nice, though not concours winning, shape. It has about 98,000 miles on it now and has been kept in fairly original configuration, except for the addition of some mysterious switches under the dash that don't seem to have a function. I'm looking forward to being in this list to be able to discuss the older cars, to solicit advice in time of need and give advice where I might have it. I'm still relatively new to the world of actually owning vintage Ferraris, but the last year or so has been a pretty intense learning experience (in oh so many ways!) so I hope I may have something to offer. Thanks, John Elliott p.s. I'm not sure of your policy on this, but I'd just like to mention that there is another vintage Ferrari owner here at work (in fact he's probably the most responsible for my getting into Italian cars in the first place) who owns a very interesting early car. His name is Bob Cremer and he has a '55? 250 Pininfarina coupe (s/n 0407), built as a one-off, probably with rallying in mind (it has two rear windshield wipers, an altimeter, and a deployable lap desk for the navigator!) for a Commendatore Ferraro in Rome. Anyway, he's had the car since around 1963 and he remains a very active Ferrari enthusiast. I believe that he could be a valuable addition to the list. From cak Sat Sep 5 11:17:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA02740; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 11:17:51 -0700 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p60.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.60]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA11065 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 20:15:02 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <35F17F0A.CBED3A46@worldonline.nl> Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 20:12:26 +0200 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: 500 TR 0600 MDTR / 166 MM 0012 M Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, First of all I want to tell you that I visited a small car museum here in Holland. Somebody told me that there was a 500 TR and today I decided to check it. And YES, there was a beautiful 500 TR with chassisnumber 0600 MDTR (the first 500 TR). It was raced by Ecurie Francorchamps and in 1958 it was fitted with a pontoon fender. This yellow car still has the pontoon fender body and it really looks great. It is original, including the correct engine, but it does need some restoration. And that's why it in the museum in Deventer, because their main business is restoring cars. For those who are interested: I can mail you a picture of this car (about 70Kb). Now I'm going to look in my archives to find all information about this great car ..... Now something else. I really want to get in touch with the owner of the 166 MM with c/n 0012 M. This car was given a Scaglietti body, but I heard rumours that it's going to be restored to its original specification. Is this car still owned by J.P. Slavic (Slanic ??) from Geneva, Switzerland ?? Does anyone of you has his address ?? Many thanks in advance !!! Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/ferrari/60/ From cak Sat Sep 5 15:56:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA03034; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 15:56:25 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust190.tnt4.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.41.190]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA28455; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 15:55:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35F1EB9D.7428@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 18:55:41 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Edvar van Daalen CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 500 TR 0600 MDTR / 166 MM 0012 M References: <35F17F0A.CBED3A46@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit But . . . There is another (?) 0600 MDTR. Well known. Also pontoon fendered. Here in the USA. Ex-Francorchamps, ex-NART car, raced by the Rodriguez brothers, Camoradi, ex-P. Paul Pappalardo. I have full details on the car, if your interested. > First of all I want to tell you that I visited a small car museum here in > Holland. Somebody told me that there was a 500 TR and today I decided to check > it. And YES, there was a beautiful 500 TR with chassisnumber 0600 MDTR (the > first 500 TR). It was raced by Ecurie Francorchamps and in 1958 it was fitted > with a pontoon fender. This yellow car still has the pontoon fender body and it > really looks great. It is original, including the correct engine, but it does > need some restoration. And that's why it in the museum in Deventer, because > their main business is restoring cars. For those who are interested: I can mail > you a picture of this car (about 70Kb). Now I'm going to look in my archives to > find all information about this great car ..... > From cak Sun Sep 6 13:53:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA04048; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 13:53:24 -0700 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p85.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.85]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA28048; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:44:32 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <35F2E58C.86764F66@worldonline.nl> Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 21:42:04 +0200 From: Edvar van Daalen Reply-To: daalen@worldonline.nl, edvar@brooklyn.nl Organization: Brooklyn Internet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: 500 TR 0600 MDTR / 166 MM 0012 M References: <35F17F0A.CBED3A46@worldonline.nl> <35F1EB9D.7428@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gerald Roush wrote: > > But . . . > > There is another (?) 0600 MDTR. Well known. Also pontoon fendered. > Here in the USA. Ex-Francorchamps, ex-NART car, raced by the Rodriguez > brothers, Camoradi, ex-P. Paul Pappalardo. I have full details on the > car, if your interested. I think it is the same car. Is it still owned by Greg Miller and just for restoration in Holland, or was it recently sold to a (yet unknown) person in Holland or Germany ?? I think the owner of the Dutch museum is very interested in details on this car, so I really appreciate it if you can send me (some of) your info. Many, many thanks in advance !! Edvar P.S. Next Friday I'll go to a reception at the museum and I think the current owner will be present also. I'm really looking forward to this and I hope that I can show the museum director or the owner some of this info. And I think that they will appreciate this also. Can't wait till Friday .... -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/ferrari/60/ From cak Wed Sep 9 18:24:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA08563; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:24:08 -0700 Received: from mailhub1.trw.com by mailhub1.trw.com (X.400 to RFC822 Gateway); Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:20:56 -0700 X400-Received: by mta MTATRW-West in /c=US/admd=telemail/prmd=TRW/; Relayed; 09 Sep 1998 18:20:56 -0700 X400-Received: by /c=US/admd=telemail/prmd=TRW/; Relayed; 09 Sep 1998 18:20:56 -0700 X400-MTS-Identifier: [/c=US/admd=telemail/prmd=TRW/; 01B6A35F729780B6-MTATRW-West] Content-Identifier: 01B6A35F729780B6 Content-Return: Allowed X400-Content-Type: P2-1988 ( 22 ) Conversion: Allowed Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text Priority: normal Disclose-Recipients: Prohibited Alternate-Recipient: Allowed X400-Originator: John.Elliott@trw.com X400-Recipients: non-disclosure; <01B6A35F729780B6*/c=US/admd=telemail/prmd=trw/o=sp/ou=QuickMail/s=Elliott/g=John/@MHS> Date: 09 Sep 1998 18:20:56 -0700 From: John Elliott To: Vintage Ferrari (IPM Return requested) Subject: Headlight Restoration? Message-Id: <01B6A35F729780B6*/c=US/admd=telemail/prmd=trw/o=sp/ou=QuickMail/s=Elliott/g=John/@MHS> Subject: Time: 6:04 PM OFFICE MEMO Headlight Restoration? Date: 9/9/98 I am fortunate to have the original Marchal high beams on my Series I (4 headlight) 330 GT. However, I have noticed that the silvering of the inner parabolic reflector on these lamps is oxidized and somewhat dull. Is there any way to have these lamps restored? Are there companies that do this, or could I perhaps just take the lamp apart and take the reflectors to a mirror silvering place (if there are such things)? I'd appreciate any information anyone could share on this. Thanks, John Elliott. From cak Wed Sep 9 21:28:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA08731; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:28:23 -0700 Received: by krypton.woodside.com.au; id LAA22033; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:13:19 +0800 Received: from unknown(158.89.192.54) by krypton.woodside.com.au via smap (4.0a) id xma021970; Thu, 10 Sep 98 11:12:52 +0800 Received: by perm02.woodside.com.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:18:18 +0800 Message-ID: <11C957791F80D111978500805F85938001130B10@perm03.woodside.com.au> From: "LaVelle, Kelly K." To: "'Vint List'" Subject: FW: FW: Headlight Restoration? Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:16:28 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain John, I asked my husband Andrew about this headlight dilemma (bizarrely, even though we work only a couple of blocks from each other in the city, it's quicker to e-mail him sometimes ...) His reply is below. Good luck! KLV > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: John Elliott [SMTP:John.Elliott@trw.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 1998 9:21 AM > > > To: Vintage Ferrari > > > Subject: Headlight Restoration? > > > > > > Subject: Time: > > > 6:04 PM > > > OFFICE MEMO Headlight Restoration? Date: > > > 9/9/98 > > > I am fortunate to have the original Marchal high beams on my > Series I > > > (4 headlight) 330 GT. However, I have noticed that the silvering > of > > > the inner parabolic reflector on these lamps is oxidized and > somewhat > > > dull. Is there any way to have these lamps restored? Are there > > > companies that do this, or could I perhaps just take the lamp > apart > > > and take the reflectors to a mirror silvering place (if there are > such > > > things)? > > > > > It can be done, but you have to be VERY delicate in unswaging the > glass from the bowl of the headlight. Any good chrome plater should > be able to resilver the bowls, assuming they are in good enough > condition to accept the plating in the first place. > > Re unswaging the glass, as I said, you have to be very delicate in > "unbending" the metal lip holding in the glass and breaking the seal > of the material holding the glass to the bowl. Some people have made > up little rolling tools to gradually unbend the metal lip so that it > doesn't crack or tear. You should (hopefully) be able to cut with a > sharp blade the goo sticking the glass to the bowl! You would need > to clean it all off the glass (the bowl would get cleaned by the > plater I assume) and restick it when done with some fresh silicone > type material, ideally white to match the original! > > I have seen people do it with old Lucas and Carello headlights, so it > should be possible. Patience and time is the key! > > Andrew > > > -- > The Pitstop Bookshop > 48 King Street > PERTH Western Australia 6000 > Phone: (08) 9322 5544 International: +61 8 9322 5544 > Fax: (08) 9322 5535 International: +61 8 9322 5535 > Email: info@pitstop.net.au > Web Site: www.pitstop.net.au From cak Thu Sep 10 09:34:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA00479; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:34:32 -0700 Received: by INET-IMC-01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 07:42:55 -0700 Message-ID: From: Michael Bradley To: Vintage Ferrari , "'John Elliott'" Subject: RE: Headlight Restoration? Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 07:42:49 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) There was (is) a company in Portland that has advertised in Hemmings for years for restoration of lights. I will check tonight to see if they still advertise. > ---------- > From: John Elliott[SMTP:John.Elliott@trw.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 06:20 PM > To: Vintage Ferrari > Subject: Headlight Restoration? > > Subject: Time: 6:04 PM > OFFICE MEMO Headlight Restoration? Date: 9/9/98 > I am fortunate to have the original Marchal high beams on my Series I (4 > headlight) 330 GT. However, I have noticed that the silvering of the > inner parabolic reflector on these lamps is oxidized and somewhat dull. > Is there any way to have these lamps restored? Are there companies that > do this, or could I perhaps just take the lamp apart and take the > reflectors to a mirror silvering place (if there are such things)? > > I'd appreciate any information anyone could share on this. > > Thanks, > > John Elliott. > From cak Thu Sep 10 11:38:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA00641; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:38:32 -0700 Received: from loop.com (p03.hwts15.loop.net [207.211.62.228]) by stevie.loop.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA11704; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35F80D1D.FCF04167@loop.com> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:32:25 -0700 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@loop.com Organization: Fairlight USA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Elliott CC: "Vintage Ferrari (IPM Return requested)" Subject: Re: Headlight Restoration? References: <01B6A35F729780B6*/c=US/admd=telemail/prmd=trw/o=sp/ou=QuickMail/s=Elliott/g=John/@MHS> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I just did a set of Marchal Fog lamps. I disassembled them myself, and it wasn't that hard, but pay attention to Andrew LaVelles instructions, and I drew diagrams so I could put them back together as a number of things could have been reversed (the lamp shrouds come to mind). The only place I could find, which I could get a reference on, to do the re-silivering was Steve's Auto Restorations in Portland OR. Couldn't find anyone in the LA, CA area, and I did look for a while. None of the Chrome Plating guy's were interested, none of the mirror places would do this, just new mirrors. Steve's can be found at 4440 South East 174th Ave. Portland OR. 97236 (503) 665-2222 I spoke to Paula, it took about 3 weeks I think, they did two reflectors and a rear view mirror for $135.00 Andrew. John Elliott wrote: > Subject: Time: 6:04 PM > OFFICE MEMO Headlight Restoration? Date: 9/9/98 > I am fortunate to have the original Marchal high beams on my Series I (4 headlight) 330 GT. However, I have noticed that the silvering of the inner parabolic reflector on these lamps is oxidized and somewhat dull. Is there any way to have these lamps restored? Are there companies that do this, or could I perhaps just take the lamp apart and take the reflectors to a mirror silvering place (if there are such things)? > > I'd appreciate any information anyone could share on this. > > Thanks, > > John Elliott. From cak Thu Sep 10 23:18:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id XAA01994; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:17:58 -0700 Received: from blockton ([12.72.200.115]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19980911054205.NGUO12025@blockton> for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 05:42:05 +0000 Message-ID: <35F8B6A0.2ADA0556@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:35:28 -0700 From: David Booth Reply-To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vintage Ferrari List Subject: headlight restoration postscript X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I used Steve's Auto Restorations a few years ago to resurrect one of the driving lights on the cab and can confirm that they (or a shop like them that specializes in re-silvering headlight reflectors) is really the only choice for this kind of work. Forget about a chrome plater, since you're talking about a large parabola that cannot be polished like a normal piece of steel, and remain optically "true". Steve Frisbie is the owner's name, and the work will be done competently, quickly and at a reasonable cost. And not that it matters, but the re-silvering won't be quite like the original. You'll also need to be very careful about not touching the silvered surface, as it's very "soft" and any significant contact will permanently scratch it. Dave Booth From cak Fri Sep 11 06:17:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA02201; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:17:48 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA577278 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:18:04 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id LAA29994 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:17:54 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199809110817.LAA29994@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Synthetic oils/a Swedish publication To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:17:50 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't remember if it was here or in the 250 GTE-newsletter, but there was some discussion about if modern synthetic/multigrade motoroils could be harmfull for engines like that of an older Ferrari. I remember someone claiming that some washing substances could harm old porous seals and make them leak. Yesterday I came upon a small note on this subject; there is a small article in a local magazine where a specialist claims that esters used in modern motor-oils can destroy old rubber seals used in veteran cars totally. I interpret this so that if you have rebuilt your engine replacing all seals there should be no problems. The risk that many modern oils are far too thin to be used in an older engine remains still the same, of course. Any comments? Another thing is that the Swedish automobilhistoric club has published a booklet, which very respectably lists all known Ferraris with Swedish history to very close detail. This is a hard to get item - I am afraid that the print is already out, but: I have compiled/translated all information in English. I thought I might hand out this file for those who are interested for free, if they promise to remain thankfull for my effort till the day that it snows in hell. I'm only a bit hesitant over in which form should I hand this thing out; is a text file of 40 kilos (40 000 characters - 6700 words) too large to be posted directly to the list... well maybe not. Any comments? From cak Fri Sep 11 18:29:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA03405; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:29:43 -0700 Received: from mailhub1.trw.com by mailhub1.trw.com (X.400 to RFC822 Gateway); Fri, 11 Sep 1998 17:43:36 -0700 X400-Received: by mta MTATRW-West in /c=US/admd=telemail/prmd=TRW/; Relayed; 11 Sep 1998 17:43:33 -0700 X400-Received: by /c=US/admd=telemail/prmd=TRW/; Relayed; 11 Sep 1998 17:43:33 -0700 X400-MTS-Identifier: [/c=US/admd=telemail/prmd=TRW/; 022D035F9C3B504D-MTATRW-West] Content-Identifier: 022D035F9C3B504D Content-Return: Allowed X400-Content-Type: P2-1988 ( 22 ) Conversion: Allowed Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text Priority: normal Disclose-Recipients: Prohibited Alternate-Recipient: Allowed X400-Originator: John.Elliott@trw.com X400-Recipients: non-disclosure; <022D035F9C3B504D*/c=US/admd=telemail/prmd=trw/o=sp/ou=QuickMail/s=Elliott/g=John/@MHS> Date: 11 Sep 1998 17:43:33 -0700 From: John Elliott To: Vintage Ferrari (IPM Return requested) Subject: RE>headlight restoration po Message-Id: <022D035F9C3B504D*/c=US/admd=telemail/prmd=trw/o=sp/ou=QuickMail/s=Elliott/g=John/@MHS> RE>headlight restoration postscript All: Thanks to for the tips. I talked to Steve at Steve's Auto Restorations and it sounds like the right place. Now I'll have to keep a lookout for a pair of original 7" Marchals for the low/high beams (though I fear the price for these would be astronomical). I've got some older Marchal halogens on there now that I took off of my Giulietta before I sold it, but they are later after-market replacements and not, I think, the same as the originals. Still, they are at least from the right manufacturer and they are wonderfully bright! Thanks again, John. ------------------------------ Date: 9/10/98 11:19 PM To: Elliott, John From: Booth, David I used Steve's Auto Restorations a few years ago to resurrect one of the driving lights on the cab and can confirm that they (or a shop like them that specializes in re-silvering headlight reflectors) is really the only choice for this kind of work. Forget about a chrome plater, since you're talking about a large parabola that cannot be polished like a normal piece of steel, and remain optically "true". Steve Frisbie is the owner's name, and the work will be done competently, quickly and at a reasonable cost. And not that it matters, but the re-silvering won't be quite like the original. You'll also need to be very careful about not touching the silvered surface, as it's very "soft" and any significant contact will permanently scratch it. Dave Booth From cak Sat Sep 12 06:17:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA03930; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 06:17:35 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA216352 for ; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:34:42 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id OAA03821 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:34:34 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199809121134.OAA03821@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Swedish document... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:34:33 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok, I kicked my own homepage going and put this document on it. For the moment I cannot check how it looks as I only have ASCII- based Lynx availabe at home, but I guess it should be readable at least. Have a go at http://www.hut.fi/~kpietila The document only includes information given in this publication, I have only noted the obvious errors with my own remarks. Any notes on any of these cars welcome, as usual... From cak Tue Sep 15 12:03:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA10217; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:02:56 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA19706 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:01:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809151901.OAA19706@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Received: from bal-md3-18.ix.netcom.com(199.183.205.114) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma019614; Tue Sep 15 14:00:43 1998 Subject: Re: New Member Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 15:03:27 -0400 From: Bruce Rippey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hello, John, and welcome to the list. As you can see, I'm a bit = behind on my correspondence, so bear with me. Regarding your brake = system: >My 330 has been a lot of fun and a lot of grief, most of the grief being = a >result of the odd twin booster braking system they put on the Series I = (if >anyone wants to know where NOT to get your brakes fixed, just ask!). At >this point the car stops fairly reliably (if not very enthusiastically) >and I have declared it safe to drive. If any of you has a similar = braking >system I'd be curious how well you feel it works. My 330 (#5629) has a similar system, and it, too, has caused some = problems in the past. I have had both brake boosters rebuilt once, = and one of them, twice. The main problem was with "dragging," caused, = I think, by a leaky valve in the booster. It would not allow the = brake to release fully, and consequently the corresponding brakes = would get very hot, and I would have to pull over, stop the engine = for a few minutes, and then I could proceed. This phenomenon still = appears occasionally, usually in hot weather, and I simply live with = it. >p.s. I'm not sure of your policy on this, but I'd just like to mention >that there is another vintage Ferrari owner here at work (in fact he's >probably the most responsible for my getting into Italian cars in the >first place) who owns a very interesting early car. His name is Bob >Cremer and he has a '55? 250 Pininfarina coupe (s/n 0407), built as a >one-off, probably with rallying in mind (it has two rear windshield >wipers, an altimeter, and a deployable lap desk for the navigator!) for a >Commendatore Ferraro in Rome. Anyway, he's had the car since around 1963 >and he remains a very active Ferrari enthusiast. I believe that he could >be a valuable addition to the list. If it's still applicable, I would second the nomination of Bob Cremer = to the list. I don't know him, but as a former owner of 250GT PF = coup=E9 #1063GT, I figure he must be a good guy! -Bruce Bruce Rippey Glen Arm, MD brippey@ix.netcom.com From cak Tue Sep 15 14:21:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA11212; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:21:51 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:21:51 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199809152121.OAA11212@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: John.Elliott@trw.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: braking systems Our series II 330 doesn't have the funky brake system yours does, but has also caused me some concern. It does two weird things: When very hot, there appears to be a master cylinder leak - I noticed this a while back when we had the car sitting idling for a long time during a smog test. It got too hot, developed a lean miss, so I took it for a short drive to get it cooled down a bit. The pedal was disconcertingly soft and travel had increased a lot. This is a very occasional thing, and I believe I have isolated it to hot running; the m/c will come off and be sent to White Post this winter, I suspect. In other circumstances, not as clearly defined, the pedal gets rock hard and effort is very high. The most recent time I noticed this was at a long stop light, facing downhill; I had to keep the brakes on. A gap ahead closed up, and I released the brakes briefly to roll forward - when I applied pressure again, the pedal was *WAY* hard and I didn't think I'd be able to keep from rolling into the car in front of me. I'm guessing that this latter is booster related somehow - the vacuum is being bled off while actuated. I don't know a lot about power brakes; does this make sense? What do I do about it? From cak Tue Sep 15 21:42:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA13467; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:42:05 -0700 Received: from blockton ([12.72.200.125]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19980916044101.IEUJ27948@blockton>; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 04:41:01 +0000 Message-ID: <35FF3FD1.F984551B@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:34:25 -0700 From: David Booth Reply-To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Kantarjiev CC: John.Elliott@trw.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: braking systems X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199809152121.OAA11212@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris: The problem you describe sounds a little like the master cylinder piston "hanging up" in the bore. It can result in a couple of things; one of which is not returning promptly when pedal pressure is released, which feels like a high hard pedal, but slightly odd brake action (the brakes haven't all released from the first application). Just one set of calipers dragging on those big discs can generate enough heat in a quarter mile or so to lock the car up solid. Guess how I know? It's also quite possible that the power brake booster (an Italian license-made Bendix -- we're in luck!) is hanging up and not giving you any boost for the second application of the brakes (lots of pedal effort and not much braking action). Either way, the solution is pretty straightforward and one of the lower-cost items any of us will do on our cars. "Booster Dewey" (hey, I didn't make up the guy's moniker) rebuilds these things by the score and White Post is very, very familiar with the Girling master cylinders too. Billy Thompson Booster Dewey White Post Restorations 503-238-8882 One Old Car Drive White Post, Va. 22663 703-837-1140 Dave Chris Kantarjiev wrote: > Our series II 330 doesn't have the funky brake system yours does, but > has also caused me some concern. It does two weird things: > > When very hot, there appears to be a master cylinder leak - I noticed > this a while back when we had the car sitting idling for a long time > during a smog test. It got too hot, developed a lean miss, so I took > it > for a short drive to get it cooled down a bit. The pedal was > disconcertingly soft and travel had increased a lot. This is a very > occasional thing, and I believe I have isolated it to hot running; the > > m/c will come off and be sent to White Post this winter, I suspect. > > In other circumstances, not as clearly defined, the pedal gets rock > hard and effort is very high. The most recent time I noticed this was > at a long stop light, facing downhill; I had to keep the brakes on. A > gap ahead closed up, and I released the brakes briefly to roll forward > > - when I applied pressure again, the pedal was *WAY* hard and I didn't > > think I'd be able to keep from rolling into the car in front of me. > > I'm guessing that this latter is booster related somehow - the vacuum > is being bled off while actuated. I don't know a lot about power > brakes; does this make sense? What do I do about it? From cak Tue Sep 15 22:02:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA13566; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:02:09 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:02:09 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199809160502.WAA13566@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: braking systems Cc: John.Elliott@trw.com, ferrari-vintage Great. That's now two real booster references - I didn't have any before today, just names passed on without any experience. Thanks! I can see that the m/c will come off this winter and get done properly. From cak Wed Sep 16 09:55:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA16219; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:55:44 -0700 From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com Received: by isserv9.idx.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 85256681.005CE389 ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:54:35 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IDX1 To: ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <85256681.005B9877.00@isserv9.idx.com> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:54:21 -0400 Subject: Re: braking systems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline I have had a similar problem with our 330 and traced it to the vacuum hose that connected the booster to the manifold. The hose looked OK from the outside but was swollen internally nearly to the point of being closed. Under the right combination of heat and vacuum it would completely close and the pedal would get very hard and the boost would go away -- fun stuff at speed!!!! When I cut the hose open I found the inside, near the manifold, to be very soft/rotten -- this deteriation looked like it was caused by exposure to gasoline or oil. Bob In other circumstances, not as clearly defined, the pedal gets rock hard and effort is very high. The most recent time I noticed this was at a long stop light, facing downhill; I had to keep the brakes on. A gap ahead closed up, and I released the brakes briefly to roll forward - when I applied pressure again, the pedal was *WAY* hard and I didn't think I'd be able to keep from rolling into the car in front of me. I'm guessing that this latter is booster related somehow - the vacuum is being bled off while actuated. I don't know a lot about power brakes; does this make sense? What do I do about it? From cak Wed Sep 16 19:11:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA18969; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:11:35 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd2-131.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.193.131]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA25519 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:10:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:06:18 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDE1B5.D96A6280.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: F40 Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:06:10 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 9 TEXT I know it's a V-8 and not that old, but the following site has some remarkable photos of a completely demolished F40 following a track accident that ruptured the fuel tank. http://www2.crosswinds.net/seattle/~racertod/intro.htm Regards, Bryan From cak Wed Sep 16 20:38:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA19451; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:38:35 -0700 Received: from blockton ([12.72.31.216]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19980917033730.HWCA8099@blockton>; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 03:37:30 +0000 Message-ID: <3600826D.C6CBADCD@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:30:54 -0700 From: David Booth Reply-To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bryan Cashion CC: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: Re: F40 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <01BDE1B5.D96A6280.cashion@sprynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bryan: A write-off in the truest sense of the word. Don't insurance companies take a pretty dim view of track events? So dim as to refuse coverage to the Insured's vehicle if participating in a track event? Ouch. Dave Booth Bryan Cashion wrote: > I know it's a V-8 and not that old, but the following site has some > remarkable photos of a completely demolished F40 following a track > accident > that ruptured the fuel tank. > > http://www2.crosswinds.net/seattle/~racertod/intro.htm > > Regards, > Bryan From cak Thu Sep 17 20:44:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA05149; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:44:03 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd79-073.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.189.73]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA07246; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:39:13 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDE28B.FE974560.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion To: "'Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net'" Cc: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: RE: F40 Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:00:02 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 31 TEXT Info is that the car will be covered, because this was a 'track' event, not a 'race' event. Regards, Bryan -----Original Message----- From: David Booth [SMTP:Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 10:31 PM To: Bryan Cashion Cc: Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail) Subject: Re: F40 Bryan: A write-off in the truest sense of the word. Don't insurance companies take a pretty dim view of track events? So dim as to refuse coverage to the Insured's vehicle if participating in a track event? Ouch. Dave Booth Bryan Cashion wrote: > I know it's a V-8 and not that old, but the following site has some > remarkable photos of a completely demolished F40 following a track > accident > that ruptured the fuel tank. > > http://www2.crosswinds.net/seattle/~racertod/intro.htm > > Regards, > Bryan From cak Fri Sep 18 16:00:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA09728; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:00:17 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:00:17 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199809182300.QAA09728@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Synthetic oils I remember someone claiming that some washing substances could harm old porous seals and make them leak. When we first got 9161, I thought hard about runing it on Mobil 1, since it's got such a good reputation. One of the things I heard over and over was that Mobil 1 would eat old seals. Finally I called Mobil and asked them. Their research and experience indicates that it isn't an issue of the seals being destroyed; rather, the detergent action of the Mobil 1 is so good that it dissolves the old oil that has been deposited on the seals and is keeping them from leaking. The end result is the same: if you're rebuilding the engine with all new seals, run Mobil 1 and be happy. In my case, they recommended that I *not* run it. So I don't. From cak Thu Sep 24 05:54:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA10699; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 05:54:19 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA489636 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:00:47 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id NAA20687 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:59:24 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199809241059.NAA20687@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Re: Synthetic oils To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:59:24 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > When we first got 9161, I thought hard about runing it on Mobil 1, > since it's got such a good reputation. One of the things I heard over > and over was that Mobil 1 would eat old seals. To my understanding we are talking about two separate matters. First of Mobil 1 has for the long time being the thinnest oil on market and this is one reason why many engines cannot keep it inside - it occurs that it comes out running through perfect seals even on relatively new cars. I've also been warned about that it doesn't handle pressure on bearings very well for the same reason. I suppose this is O.K. if you have a modern everyday car that has done less that 150 tmls. If your car has a hi-perf- engine and/or it has a lot of mileage on its neck I would never dare to use synthetic Mobil oils. I'd rather choose a product that isn't designed to take 250 degrees celsius on a frying pan just because of the marketing department thinks this is a good way to sell this stuff to common people. > Finally I called Mobil and asked them. Their research and experience > indicates that it isn't an issue of the seals being destroyed; rather, > the detergent action of the Mobil 1 is so good that it dissolves the > old oil that has been deposited on the seals and is keeping them from > leaking. > > The end result is the same: if you're rebuilding the engine with all > new seals, run Mobil 1 and be happy. In my case, they recommended that > I *not* run it. I am tempted to think that they are avoiding the issue of the oil being too thin to be used in all kinds of engines ;-) Returning to the old legend claiming that one should never use multi-grades, let alone synthetic motor oils in veteran cars I still believe that this has more to do with the esters dissolving old rubberseals totally than just washing all the dirt off. I believe that the correct answer to all this is the same answer that suits the question whether one can mix different kinds of oils with each other; once upon time some problems occured but working with modern age oils and modern age materials there's nothing to worry. I'm more worried about people using too thin oils in their engines. Some people seem to think that 0W-oils are the best engine oils ever created and never come to think that their 30-50-year-old engines were designed to run on a oils like 10W40, 20W50 or even thicker... From cak Fri Sep 25 21:31:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA21143; Fri, 25 Sep 1998 21:31:35 -0700 Received: from blockton ([12.72.31.45]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19980926043102.HOGI27883@blockton> for ; Sat, 26 Sep 1998 04:31:02 +0000 Message-ID: <360C6C6B.C5D0C182@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 21:24:11 -0700 From: David Booth Reply-To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vintage Ferrari List Subject: Hey! That's my car! X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List: Went to see the film "Ronin" which opened today nationwide. Imagine my surprise/ delight/ barely surpressed glee when about two-thirds of the way through, a 250 Series II cabriolet is used as the main piece of "set decoration" in a 2-3 minute scene. It's red with black interior, in fully restored shape. It's in a seedy-looking Paris garage where Robert DeNiro and Jean Reno go when they decide to start following the Russians (that's your cue to start watching closely, moviegoers). Looks just a tad out of place. As in, "..Allo baby. What's a beautiful car like you doing een a place like zees, eh?" Not all that surprising, really, since Ronin is directed by noted Ferrari nut John Frankenheimer. And if any of you have watched Frankenheimer's "Grand Prix" recently, you'll notice exactly the same directorial and cinematographic technique in Ronin as he used in Grand Prix. Pretty exciting stuff. The real automotive star of the film is a delectable Audi S-8 (A-8 in the USA), although various BMWs, Renaults and Peugeots get good on-camera time as well. And there's a brief view of a blue 456 in the entryway of a nice Nice hotel in an early scene. Any of you that go to see it -- I'd be intersted in the automotive "body count". End of movie review. Best, Dave Booth From cak Sun Sep 27 03:57:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id DAA04876; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 03:57:38 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA602916 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:57:04 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id NAA02905 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:57:03 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199809271057.NAA02905@happi.hut.fi> Subject: simple question... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:57:02 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Which of the 250 GTO's (series 1) was sold new to Ernesto Prinoto, later owned by a Mr. Diena and in the 1980's raced by Fabrizio Violati? The car seems to be a standard GTO; only the square shaped holes for auxiliary lights seems to be missing. From cak Sun Sep 27 10:41:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA06273; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 10:41:47 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA07714 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 12:41:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809271741.MAA07714@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> Received: from bal-md2-27.ix.netcom.com(199.183.205.91) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma007688; Sun Sep 27 12:40:54 1998 Subject: Nomination for List Date: Sun, 27 Sep 98 13:44:10 -0400 From: Bruce Rippey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hello, Vintage-Listers - I'd like to propose Dr. Tim Gallagher for membership in the Vintage List. Tim lives in Asheville, NC, owns a 330GT 2+2 and a 308 (and a few other assorted interesting vehicles), and has been an active participant in Ferrari activities for a number of years. He has taken his 330 to many FCA events throughout the eastern USA, drives aggressively and with skill on the track, and then wins subsequent concours events. He has expressed an interest in joining our fellowship, and I strongly support his inclusion. -Bruce Bruce Rippey Glen Arm, MD brippey@ix.netcom.com From cak Sun Sep 27 11:43:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA06503; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 11:42:56 -0700 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p48.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.48]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA07976; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:41:48 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <360E86C2.EC080D70@worldonline.nl> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:41:06 +0200 From: Edvar van Daalen Organization: Ice Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kare M A Pietila CC: Ferrari Vintage Subject: Re: simple question... References: <199809271057.NAA02905@happi.hut.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kare M A Pietil{ wrote: > Which of the 250 GTO's (series 1) was sold new to Ernesto Prinoto, > later owned by a Mr. Diena and in the 1980's raced by Fabrizio Violati? > > The car seems to be a standard GTO; only the square shaped holes > for auxiliary lights seems to be missing. This car was 3851 GT, which original colour was metallic grey. Oreiller was killed in this car at the Coupes du Salon, Monthlery in 1962. The wreck was sold to P. Colombo, who rebuilt it and probably painted it red. Colombo raced this car in 1963 (10 GT-wins) and in 1964 he sold it to Prinoth. He also won a lot of GT-races and in 1965 he sold it to Violati. I think that Violati still owns the car (Maranello Rosso Collection). Look at the Maranello.cc site for pics. Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel. : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/ferrari/60/ From cak Sun Sep 27 16:05:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA07276; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 16:05:00 -0700 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: from PaceCars@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id OFOEa05092; Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:07:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6a9015d9.360e8cf5@aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:07:33 EDT To: brippey@ix.netcom.com, ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Nomination for List Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 In a message dated 9/27/98 5:43:12 PM, brippey@ix.netcom.com wrote: >I'd like to propose Dr. Tim Gallagher for membership in the Vintage List. >Tim lives in Asheville, NC, owns a 330GT 2+2 and a 308 (and a few other >assorted interesting vehicles), and has been an active participant in >Ferrari activities for a number of years. He has taken his 330 to many >FCA events throughout the eastern USA, drives aggressively and with skill >on the track, and then wins subsequent concours events. He has expressed >an interest in joining our fellowship, and I strongly support his >inclusion. If he has a 330 2+2, he MUST be bright, friendly, articulate and handsome. I support his inclusion! ;>) Harold Pace 330 2+2 From cak Mon Sep 28 05:39:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA09919; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 05:39:07 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust17.tnt3.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.17.17]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA27799; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 05:38:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <360FAD6A.29FF@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 08:38:18 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kare M A Pietil{ CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: simple question... References: <199809271057.NAA02905@happi.hut.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kare M A Pietil{ wrote: > > Which of the 250 GTO's (series 1) was sold new to Ernesto Prinoto, > later owned by a Mr. Diena and in the 1980's raced by Fabrizio Violati? > > The car seems to be a standard GTO; only the square shaped holes > for auxiliary lights seems to be missing. S/N 3851 was purchased by Fabrizio Violatti in the mid 1960's and was on display at his Collezione Maranello Rosso, Le Ferrari a San Marino. It was sold new to Jo Schlesser. It is the car in which Henri Oreiller was killed at Montlhery in 1962--the only fatality in a 250 GTO! It was subsequently owned and raced by Paolo Colombo before being sold to Ernesto Prinoth. In its original configuration (as run by Oreiller/Schlesser at the Tour de France 1962) it had the rectangular driving lights. From cak Tue Sep 29 12:31:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA17624; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:31:25 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:31:25 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199809291931.MAA17624@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Synthetic oils Since neither of us (I believe) is a petroleum engineer, this is probably not the right place to engage in heated debate about what is really going on with synthetics. I will note a couple of things: 0W oils are most certainly not recommended by Mobil for general use; they have a specific purpose: cold weather starts. First of Mobil 1 has for the long time being the thinnest oil on market and this is one reason why many engines cannot keep it inside Well ... what's "thin"? Viscosity is viscosity. Room temperature pourability is something else, entirely. If it's a 15W-50 oil, it's no thinner than straight 15W at (specified high but I don't remember) temp and no thicker than straight 50W at (specified but equally unremembered lower temp). That's how multi-grade viscosity is measured, period. If your car has a hi-perf- engine and/or it has a lot of mileage on its neck I would never dare to use synthetic Mobil oils. Hi-mileage, yes, I'd agree. Hi-performance, I'd disagree, since all apparently all the cars that are Mobil 1 sponsored these days (*except* Formula 1) are running Mobil 1 out of the bottle. That includes CART. (That from a recent diatribe on a nother list from a Mobil//Duckham's rep, discussing many of these same issues. No, I didn't save it, sorry. Apparently in the UK they have a 15W50 Mobil 1 blend called Mobil 1 Motorsport for exactly "our" applications, though I bet they still don't recommend it for engines with worn seals.) I use Mobil 1 with good results in several of our "extreme use" engines; a turbo application and a race car. The turbo gets it because Mobil 1 has a very high ash point - that is, it stays liquid, rather than coking, approximately 75 deg C higher than the best "dinosaur" oil. The race car gets it because I believe that Mobil 1 will protect it better under high ol temp and potentially low oil pressure situations. The Ferrari gets Castrol GTX, for many reasons - the first being that if Castrol leaks (and it does) the Mobil 1 will, too. And I change oil in that car more often than not because it's been in there "too long" (i.e., it's been contaminated with acids and moisture from sitting) rather than because it's dirty. It doesn't get stressed. 10 quarts of Castrol is less than half the price of 10 quarts of Mobil 1. From cak Wed Sep 30 22:21:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA26584; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:21:49 -0700 Received: from loop.com (p20.hwts04.loop.net [207.211.61.155]) by stevie.loop.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA29262; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:18:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <36131348.79E267E2@loop.com> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:29:58 -0700 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@loop.com Organization: Fairlight USA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: LEN MILLER CC: "Vintage V12 list." Subject: Funny Coincidence Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I was originally only going to send this to Lenzio Miller, but I thought that a few others on the list may find it ironic. I just got home from a trade show and there was two pieces of mail which caught my eye, Len's newsletter and Sports car Market. I naturally read Len's fine publication first, and I agreed with his comment about Keith Martin and his continual bagging of the GTE. As we all know enough is written about this car, by idiots who have no idea, to make it appear as the all time worst V12 in existence. But, don't get me started... I opened the SCM, and in the editorial is a piece about Keith finding and purchasing a 330 America. Whoa, the same guy who said "Couldn't afford a real ferrari, ....you will alway's be a hero at the local Fiat club gathering" is now saying "the 330 America has the classic lines of the 250GTE 2+2" Funny how investment can cloud the opinion. Anyway, for the Serial Number guy's, It's 5077, found in Montana, 97,000Km's Red exterior now, but was originally white. Paid $22,000 I'll e-mail him with Len's details and bug him till he buy's a subscription, seems fair to me. Andrew. From cak Mon Oct 5 09:36:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA10529; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:36:18 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (1Cust109.tnt4.atl2.da.uu.net [153.36.41.109]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA05062; Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <36191F79.6F62@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 12:35:21 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: daalen@worldonline.nl CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Ferrari S/N 0600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Edvar, Just got off the phone with Mr. Miller. Yes, it is his car (S/N 0600 MDTR) that is in the museum in Holland. He was somewhat non-committal as to how it got there and why it was there, but he did allow as to how it was quietly for sale. Are you still interested in information on the car? I can send you some documentation but it really needs to be via fax if at all possible. From cak Thu Oct 8 15:38:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA02386; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:38:29 -0700 Received: from imssp01.sp.trw.com by mailhub1.trw.com with ESMTP; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:37:41 -0700 Received: by imssp01.sp.TRW.COM with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <4QQ63XBA>; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:37:28 -0700 Message-ID: <03F922E4FA3DD211AB880000D110AE4543871F@exsp06-bak.sp.TRW.COM> From: "Elliott, John" To: "'ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com'" Subject: Coolant system pressure Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:37:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi: I'm currently having the radiator replaced in my 330 GT (Series I). All the information I have been able to uncover on my car says that my cooling system should be operated with a 5 psi radiator cap. Yet most other Ferraris of that era (with the exception of the 250 GTE) seem to have used a 13 psi cap (0.9 Bar), which is in fact what I was using up to this point. Is there a good technical reason why 330 2+2s and 250 GTEs operated at the lower pressure and will I do harm to my renovated system if I go back to using the 13 psi cap? The system has been pressure tested to somewhere above 20 psi with no problems, and the radiator sure doesn't look much different from, say a 275 GTB of the same year, which was spec'd for a 13 psi cap. Also, does anyone know of a source for the proper Italian 5 psi cap. I got the 13 psi one from GT Car Parts, but at that time they didn't have any in other pressures. You know, I used to do pressure/temperature analysis for nuclear power plants, but Ferraris leave me mystified. Thanks in advance, John. From cak Thu Oct 8 15:45:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id PAA02440; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:45:39 -0700 Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:45:39 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199810082245.PAA02440@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: John.Elliott@trw.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Coolant system pressure Can't think of one, unless they were trying to keep the ultimate boiling point lower - softer solder somewhere? Does the Series I have an overflow tank? We had a devil of a time with out cooling system until I realized that the cap at the radiator shouldn't seal the inner neck - that the overflow tank is meant to be pressurized at all times. That cap is just a flat cap with no spring. The cap at the overflow is the one with a pressure relief... From cak Sun Oct 11 09:03:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA05924; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:03:37 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA92540 for ; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 19:03:04 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id TAA15675 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sun, 11 Oct 1998 19:03:00 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199810111603.TAA15675@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Engine 4799... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 19:02:59 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave, did you know that the original engine of your GTE seems to be sitting on a nose of a 250 GT Ellena 0685GT...? From cak Mon Oct 12 05:48:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA10277; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 05:48:18 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA367664 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:47:43 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id PAA20361 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:47:25 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199810121247.PAA20361@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Re: Engine 4799... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:47:24 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > This is most intriguing. Are you sure? The "story" I have on #4799GT > is that it was owned by a lovely and dashing young woman in the eastern > US near Washington DC who approached the ownership of this car as so > many American women seem to: they put gas in the car, twist the key, > and it goes. That's the extent of their knowledge of, or interest in > maintenance. Of course I'm not sure, but it does not sound way too unbelieveable if the engine has survived in condition couraging someone to overhaul it and install into a car missing engine... to my understanding the V-12 block can take almost enything except electrolytic corrosion or freezing solid > I've talked to the guy who says he knew of this young woman, and pulled > the engine and sold the car sans motor. > > What more can you tell me? I just came across the following entry when browsing through H. Mergards site - that's all I know, save the details you've told us yourself... http://www.pirro.com/english/All.Ferraris/Detail/0685GT.250GT.Boano.htm 0685GT 57 250 GT Boano high Roof Coupe, Ellena 76 - Ed Meehan, Encino, CA .. - converted to low roof .. - rear end changed .. - engine installed 250 GT/L (GTE??) 4799 $50,000 - Gary Roberts, 10/94 $100,000 6/95 restored blue/silver roof, Roberts From cak Tue Oct 13 05:32:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id FAA15585; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 05:32:09 -0700 Received: from sprynet.com (hd31-176.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.222.176]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA12991 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 05:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <362346B4.BEF49D29@sprynet.com> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:25:24 -0500 From: Bryan Cashion X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Voltage regulator Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Any tips on how I can test my voltage regulator when the engine is not running? Would a bad regulator be a potential cause for NO spark on either bank, even on the coil input wire? Thanks! From cak Tue Oct 13 10:48:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA17153; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:48:30 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (ip220.atlanta14.ga.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.162.220]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA21098; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3623BC7D.7718@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:47:57 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage, Kare M A Pietil{ Subject: Re: Engine 4799... References: <199810121247.PAA20361@happi.hut.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ferrari 250 GT Boano Coupe S/N 0685 GT was advertised for sale throughout 1994, 1995 and early 1996 by Garry Roberts & Co., Costa Mesa, CA. Car described as having "250 GTE engine S/N 4799 and American rear end. Correct transmission, brakes and suspension." In 1994 was red with black interior. In 1995 had "new blue scuro lacquer with silver roof. Competition interior, outside gas filler, side vents and hood scoop." The car was seen at the big Ferrari meet in Monterey in 1994 and ran the 1995 California Mille. From cak Wed Oct 14 00:00:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id AAA21220; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:00:41 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA149498 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:00:03 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id JAA04867 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:59:59 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199810140659.JAA04867@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Autohistorica etc... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:59:58 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Gerald, I'm still wondering if you have any info on 250GT S.2 2011GT. Possibly offered for sale by Lyle Tanner in 80's (?) and imported into Finland from Canada. I'm particularly interested in the identity of the engine block, which seems to have been renumbered since then... The translation of the Autohistorica 04/97 has been hanging on my homepage for a while now and I've started to wonder if anyone's interested if I take xerox-copies of the actual issue as the print seems to be out. The thing is around 60-70 pages and includes at least one picture of each car - which are in most cases very early pictures from Swedish photo albums. I consider this quite a valuable piece of information and would like to share it with those who would get a lot of joy out of it. If there is anyone who hasn't been able to see the text on my home page, I think I'll add the missing section listing 330's and flush the raw text through the posting list... From cak Fri Oct 16 12:09:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA07992; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:09:32 -0700 Received: from worldonline.nl (hglo1-p93.worldonline.nl [195.241.147.93]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA16552 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:08:48 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <36279947.76EEB725@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:06:47 +0200 From: Edvar van Daalen Reply-To: daalen@worldonline.nl, evdaalen@maranello.net Organization: Brooklyn Internet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: www.maranello.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I don't want to send any 'spam' to the list, but I'm sure that all of you are very interested in this. The purpose of this email is to let you know that there is a NEW Ferrari website !! We have been working very hard on this site and now it's time to let the first visitor come! The concept of the site is totally new: not a static info-site, but a COMMUNITY, and we want as much input from our visitors as possible. I thought that it would be a good idea to tell this to this List as soon as possible. Many of you know about me and I know about many of you. And I'm sure that you'll like the site and its concept and I also hope that you'll help us to make this site the most interesting site on the whole Internet!! At this moment, we have several sections: * news * company database * clubs database * links database * discussions * article section * shop (books and photos) * market place (with several interesting cars!) In the very near future we will add * more databases (like literature, multimedia and tipos) * more ways to communicate with each other (chat, more discussion groups) * more shops * more items in the Market Place * a lot more !!! So, please take a look at this site and tell me if you like it. All input is welcome and we'll seriously look at all your comments to make it the best site of all!! And for those who are interested in advertising on our site, setting up their own shops, adding items to our Market Place, who have nice ideas and who want to become a part of our team, just EMAIL us !! Enjoy it: http://www.maranello.net Regards, Edvar van Daalen Maranello.net - The Ferrari Community evdaalen@maranello.net daalen@worldonline.nl From cak Fri Oct 16 19:33:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA10200; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 19:33:18 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hd78-132.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.188.132]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA13241; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 19:32:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:33:26 -0500 Message-ID: <01BDF94C.9BC74340.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion Reply-To: "cashion@sprynet.com" To: "'daalen@worldonline.nl'" , "'evdaalen@maranello.net'" , Ferrari Vintage List Subject: RE: www.maranello.net Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:08:52 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 59 TEXT VERY nicely done, Edvar. -----Original Message----- From: Edvar van Daalen [SMTP:daalen@worldonline.nl] Sent: Friday, October 16, 1998 2:07 PM To: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: www.maranello.net Hi, I don't want to send any 'spam' to the list, but I'm sure that all of you are very interested in this. The purpose of this email is to let you know that there is a NEW Ferrari website !! We have been working very hard on this site and now it's time to let the first visitor come! The concept of the site is totally new: not a static info-site, but a COMMUNITY, and we want as much input from our visitors as possible. I thought that it would be a good idea to tell this to this List as soon as possible. Many of you know about me and I know about many of you. And I'm sure that you'll like the site and its concept and I also hope that you'll help us to make this site the most interesting site on the whole Internet!! At this moment, we have several sections: * news * company database * clubs database * links database * discussions * article section * shop (books and photos) * market place (with several interesting cars!) In the very near future we will add * more databases (like literature, multimedia and tipos) * more ways to communicate with each other (chat, more discussion groups) * more shops * more items in the Market Place * a lot more !!! So, please take a look at this site and tell me if you like it. All input is welcome and we'll seriously look at all your comments to make it the best site of all!! And for those who are interested in advertising on our site, setting up their own shops, adding items to our Market Place, who have nice ideas and who want to become a part of our team, just EMAIL us !! Enjoy it: http://www.maranello.net Regards, Edvar van Daalen Maranello.net - The Ferrari Community evdaalen@maranello.net daalen@worldonline.nl From cak Wed Oct 21 07:58:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA23430; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:58:10 -0700 From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com Received: by isserv9.idx.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 852566A4.0062B232 ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:56:59 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IDX1 To: ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <852566A4.0050F2D7.00@isserv9.idx.com> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:56:19 -0400 Subject: undercoating Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline To: ferrari-vintage Hi Guys, Well, the restoration on our '62 GTE has been moving along fairly well. Most of the repair work to the body has been completed and we are ready to undercoat the car. The original undercoating on our GTE was heavily applied to the wheel wells and bottom of the car, but the entire frame was only painted, save for a little undercoat overspray here and there. Our '64 330, on the other hand, has undercoating on everything aft of the firewall. My question is what is correct for the GTE -- did Ferrari change the procedure for undercoating between '62 and '64? Or did undercoating vary from car to car depending on who was applying it? Would you GTE owners please peek under your cars and let me know what you find? Perhaps the easiest place to check is where the frame goes over the rear axle -- is the frame there undercoated or just painted? Thanks for your help. Bob Weeks Georgia Center, VT From cak Wed Oct 21 08:24:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA23566; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:24:43 -0700 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA38328 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:24:10 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id SAA01283 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:24:05 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199810211524.SAA01283@happi.hut.fi> Subject: undercoating To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:24:05 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Would you GTE owners please peek under your cars and let me know what you > find? Perhaps the easiest place to check is where the frame goes over the > rear axle -- is the frame there undercoated or just painted? Funnily I was just going to ask whether anyone has good pictures of the floorpanels as our car lost its floor in just 3-4 years to extensive corrosion and I have no documentation on how and by whom the new floorpanels were made. >From this point I guess that the original protection must have been minimal. From cak Wed Oct 21 12:47:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA25350; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:47:10 -0700 Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:47:10 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199810211947.MAA25350@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: undercoating We folks who are foolish enough to build race cars out of street cars use heat to make removing undercoating (which also tends to coat the inside, as sound deadening) somewhat easier - it gets soft and then can be removed with a putty knife. No danger of damaging the underlying metal, and no hearing damage. From cak Wed Oct 21 12:45:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA25329; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:44:57 -0700 Received: from boss.worldnet.att.net ([12.72.30.107]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19981021194423.FQMU27060@boss.worldnet.att.net>; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:44:23 +0000 Message-ID: <362E3814.12B9DD40@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:37:56 -0700 From: David Booth Organization: Boothrafters, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert_Weeks@idx.com CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: undercoating X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <852566A4.0050F2D7.00@isserv9.idx.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob & friends: Not surprising to hear that there was a big variation in the way undercoating was applied to these cars, since there are significant variations in much more important areas.. On both 2105GT and 4799GT, it's basically the same -- roughly 1/8" thickness under the car and on the frame members, and a little less thick in the fender wells. I attacked the removal of mine with a broad scraper tip in a pneumatic hammer set to it's lowest operating pressure. This technique tends to "shatter" the undercoat off a little at a time. A day spent on this activity is almost exactly like taking mortar fire: you're dirtier than you ever dreamed you could get, your ears are ringing, yuor work area is a shambles, and you're desperately wishing you were somewhere else. I kind of suspect that the application of the undercoat doesn't have too much to do with body rust. It seems that the creation of little crevices that gather dirt, which in turn gets wet and holds that moisture against the steel is the real culprit. The GTE's floor panels are actually a double panel consisting of an upper and a lower skin, with insulation filling the void in between. When this insulation eventually gets wet, it provides an ideal home for the tinworm. Dave Booth Robert_Weeks@idx.com wrote: > To: ferrari-vintage > Hi Guys, > > Well, the restoration on our '62 GTE has been moving along fairly > well. > Most of the repair work to the body has been > completed and we are ready to undercoat the car. > > The original undercoating on our GTE was heavily applied to the wheel > wells > and bottom of the car, but the entire frame was only painted, save for > a > little undercoat overspray here and there. Our '64 330, on the other > hand, > has undercoating on everything aft of the firewall. My question is > what is > correct for the GTE -- did Ferrari change the procedure for > undercoating > between '62 and '64? Or did undercoating vary from car to car > depending on > who was > applying it? > > Would you GTE owners please peek under your cars and let me know what > you > find? Perhaps the easiest place to check is where the frame goes over > the > rear axle -- is the frame there undercoated or just painted? > > Thanks for your help. > > Bob Weeks > Georgia Center, VT From cak Wed Oct 21 12:42:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA25302; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:42:01 -0700 Received: from boss.worldnet.att.net ([12.72.30.107]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19981021194125.FPAP27060@boss.worldnet.att.net>; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:41:25 +0000 Message-ID: <362E3760.7550CA99@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:34:56 -0700 From: David Booth Organization: Boothrafters, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert_Weeks@idx.com CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: undercoating X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <852566A4.0050F2D7.00@isserv9.idx.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob & friends: Not surprising to hear that there was a big variation in the way undercoating was applied to these cars, since there are significant variations in much more important areas.. On both 2105GT and 4799GT, it's basically the same -- roughly 1/8" thickness under the car and on the frame members, and a little less thick in the fender wells. I attacked the removal of mine with a broad scraper tip in a pneumatic hammer set to it's lowest operating pressure. This technique tends to "shatter" the undercoat off a little at a time. A day spent on this activity is almost exactly like taking mortar fire: you're dirtier than you ever dreamed you could get, your ears are ringing, yuor work area is a shambles, and you're desperately wishing you were somewhere else. Dave Booth Robert_Weeks@idx.com wrote: > To: ferrari-vintage > Hi Guys, > > Well, the restoration on our '62 GTE has been moving along fairly > well. > Most of the repair work to the body has been > completed and we are ready to undercoat the car. > > The original undercoating on our GTE was heavily applied to the wheel > wells > and bottom of the car, but the entire frame was only painted, save for > a > little undercoat overspray here and there. Our '64 330, on the other > hand, > has undercoating on everything aft of the firewall. My question is > what is > correct for the GTE -- did Ferrari change the procedure for > undercoating > between '62 and '64? Or did undercoating vary from car to car > depending on > who was > applying it? > > Would you GTE owners please peek under your cars and let me know what > you > find? Perhaps the easiest place to check is where the frame goes over > the > rear axle -- is the frame there undercoated or just painted? > > Thanks for your help. > > Bob Weeks > Georgia Center, VT From cak Fri Oct 23 06:11:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA06312; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 06:11:08 -0700 Received: from localhost by verdi.engr.utk.edu with SMTP (SMI-8.6/2.8s-UTK.UTCC) id JAA04242; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:10:33 -0400 Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:10:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Erik Nielsen Reply-To: Erik Nielsen To: vintage ferrari Subject: looking for another car Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII well, the search is on for the next ferrari. i know it is a long shot, but does anyone know of a 330 america for sale? it doesn't have to be a concours car (and i'd rather it not be). just a straight and complete one. i heard of one coming out of montana two months ago for mid $20s. gerald, do you have any info about it? also, for those in the us, the fca will have a charity auction during the national meet next year, does anyone have anything that they'd like to donate (tax deducatble)? thanks, erik From cak Fri Oct 23 07:47:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA06693; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:45:27 -0700 Received: by mail2.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:44:55 -0700 Message-ID: From: Michael Bradley To: vintage ferrari , "'Erik Nielsen'" Subject: RE: looking for another car Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:44:48 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) The local exotic dealer Park Place Mtrs had the x John Bond 330 America for sale for some time (years). Ill stop by at lunch and see if its still there. > ---------- > From: Erik Nielsen[SMTP:nielsen@verdi.engr.utk.edu] > Reply To: Erik Nielsen > Sent: Freitag, 23. Oktober 1998 06:10 > To: vintage ferrari > Subject: looking for another car > > well, the search is on for the next ferrari. i know it is a long shot, > but does anyone know of a 330 america for sale? it doesn't have to be a > concours car (and i'd rather it not be). just a straight and complete > one. i heard of one coming out of montana two months ago for mid $20s. > gerald, do you have any info about it? also, for those in the us, the fca > will have a charity auction during the national meet next year, does > anyone have anything that they'd like to donate (tax deducatble)? > thanks, > erik > > > > From cak Fri Oct 23 16:55:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA09216; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:55:23 -0700 Received: from loop.com (p13.hwts12.loop.net [207.211.62.148]) by stevie.loop.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA17902; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <363117A8.E611EF5C@loop.com> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:56:53 -0700 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@loop.com Organization: Fairlight USA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Erik Nielsen CC: vintage ferrari Subject: Re: looking for another car References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Erik, Why are you interested in the 330 America. I have only seen two for sale in the last couple of years, the Montana one was a bit of a rare beast. It was found by a car search fellow, who offered it to Keith Martin as a sort of penance for a deal on a TR-6 which had gone south. The price was quite reasonable, but I think Martin immediately spent 4-5K on the car to get it on the road. It still needs restoration at this point. You can read about it in "sports car market" although most people on this list would rather poke themselves in the eye with a burning stick than read something Keith Martin had to say. The other car had custom bodywork rear end treatment, read "not original" and was for sale for 40K, which seems a lot more realistic an asking price for a 330 America. It was sold about 20 days after it was advertised, and went to San Diego I believe. It had the usual GTE problems such as underbelly rust and odd rubber bits missing, myself and another 250 (former) owner looked at the car and he felt it was overpriced for it's condition. But, I liked the look of it, thought I could make something of it, but had one too many projects already for the wife to allow it. There was only 50 made, which means that you might just want it for the exclusivity aspect. Fair enough, but the 250 motor is a pretty sweet unit, and there is more GTE's around making the deal aspect more desirable. The 330GT 2+2 is also a great car, and perhaps allot more civil than the 250 chassis. Last but not least, you have a V12, what about one of those V8 cars just to round out the garage. (I can feel the flame throwers arcing up) Andrew. Erik Nielsen wrote: > well, the search is on for the next ferrari. i know it is a long shot, > but does anyone know of a 330 america for sale? it doesn't have to be a > concours car (and i'd rather it not be). just a straight and complete > one. i heard of one coming out of montana two months ago for mid $20s. > gerald, do you have any info about it? also, for those in the us, the fca > will have a charity auction during the national meet next year, does > anyone have anything that they'd like to donate (tax deducatble)? > thanks, > erik From cak Sat Oct 24 06:44:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00488; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 06:44:48 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (ip99.atlanta14.ga.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.162.99]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA18469; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 06:44:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <363203DD.7D4@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 09:44:13 -0700 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Erik Nielsen CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: looking for another car References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Erik Nielsen wrote: > i heard of one coming out of montana two months ago for mid $20s. > gerald, do you have any info about it? S/N 5077. Purchased from an estate by Keith Martin, Sports Car Market, Portland, OR. So, what happened with the "once-in-a-lifetime" Ferrari? From cak Wed Oct 28 11:11:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA24670; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:11:50 -0800 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA230082 for ; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:11:10 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id VAA23528 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:11:09 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199810281911.VAA23528@happi.hut.fi> Subject: a few cars in USA... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:11:08 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone identify following cars: SCI article from july 1955 shows an early "Ferrari 1.9 litre Coupe" owned by McKinsey. Virginia plates "930-770". This must be one of the very first Touring Coupes, but which one? SCI article from march 1959 shows a 212 Vignale Coupe with a Corvette V-8, gearbox and Ford rear end. Car owned by Benjamin Bok, Malibu Beach, CA. Chassis number anyone? I found a book from the 60's showing a color picture of a 410 SA Series 1. The car is silver - probably a bit on the greenish side of the palette, with maroon or plum top and matching maroon or red interior. "FC 6275" - Maryland plates, I believe... Is this the car sold to Dietrich in USA? Chassis number 0491SA...? From cak Thu Oct 29 02:43:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id CAA29872; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:43:10 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME (ip43.atlanta14.ga.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.162.43]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA07782; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:42:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <363870CD.46F9@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 05:42:37 -0800 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kare M A Pietil{ CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: a few cars in USA... References: <199810281911.VAA23528@happi.hut.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kare M A Pietil{ wrote: > > Can anyone identify following cars: > > SCI article from july 1955 shows an early "Ferrari 1.9 litre Coupe" > owned by McKinsey. Virginia plates "930-770". This must be one of > the very first Touring Coupes, but which one? > S/N 007 S. Car is now in New Zealand. When it was re-discovered several years ago it was all apart and the Touring body had been destroyed/discarded. It has now been restored using the Stablimenti Farina bodywork off another old car. Car is with friends, Phips and Amanda Rinaldo. They brought it to the Ferrari 50 celebration in Italy. I probably can identify the other two, but will have to dig into the database some to find their identity. Will contact you later. From cak Thu Oct 29 03:09:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id DAA29957; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:09:19 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME (ip1.atlanta14.ga.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.162.1]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA14426; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:08:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <363876F3.350C@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 06:08:51 -0800 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kare M A Pietil{ CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: a few cars in USA... References: <199810281911.VAA23528@happi.hut.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kare M A Pietil{ wrote: > > Can anyone identify following cars: > > SCI article from march 1959 shows a 212 Vignale Coupe with a Corvette > V-8, gearbox and Ford rear end. Car owned by Benjamin Bok, Malibu Beach, CA. > Chassis number anyone? S/N 0131 E according to Marcel Massini's "Ferrari by Vignale". Complete history can be found there. > I found a book from the 60's showing a color picture of a 410 SA Series 1. > The car is silver - probably a bit on the greenish side of the palette, > with maroon or plum top and matching maroon or red interior. "FC 6275" - > Maryland plates, I believe... Is this the car sold to Dietrich in USA? > Chassis number 0491SA...? NOT S/N 0491 SA, which was owned from new by H. Richard Dietrich, Reading, PA (and then, after his death. by his son) until sold to the second owner in May 1985. IS S/N 0501 SA, owned at one time by the infamous Gordon Tatum of Maryland, and since the late 1970's by Charlie Kemp of Jackson, MS. In my copy of Stein's "The Great Cars" p. 149 it appears as oro chiaro with rosso rubino roof, which is the color of Kemp's car today. Kemp was recently interested in selling the car, so it may have found a new home by now. As a side note, S/N 0491 SA is a long chassis (2800 mm wheelbase) while S/N 0501 SA is a shart chassis (2600 mm wheelbase) From cak Sat Oct 31 06:58:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA00556; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:58:20 -0800 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA48270 for ; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 16:57:43 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id QAA03664 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 16:57:42 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199810311457.QAA03664@happi.hut.fi> Subject: potential new member... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 16:57:41 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Len has given my address to a chap named Michael Zakarian who lives in Detroit Michigan. He seems very determined to solve all missing history related to his car, 250 GTE 3177GT, which he has owned since January 1998. If owning a 330 makes a man bright and handsome, I wonder what owning a 250 Gt 2+2 this close to ours might indicate! His car seems to have the same front end set-up than Bob's 3351GT. If I understood right Bob's car also has older "frenched" headlight rims as seen on Series 1 & 2 cars with molded auxiliary lights like those on Series 3. Now, what is this? Are we supposed to believe that every other guy repaired their crash damage altering the foglights and preserving the headlights or were the desingers working slowly towards the final bodywork revision that was officially introduced with series 3...? From cak Sun Nov 1 11:17:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA06237; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 11:17:02 -0800 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA112112 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 21:16:28 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id VAA06267 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 21:16:26 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199811011916.VAA06267@happi.hut.fi> Subject: oops... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 21:16:24 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looks like I was a bit careless when looking at the pictures of this 3177 - it seems to have a standard series 1-2 nose, but missing original aux-lights, so another set of lights have been positioned just like the original moulded ones on Series 3 cars - and it's damn hard to see the difference against black paintwork... Chris, if the "grand jury" in all of its wisdom decides to approve the guy, his email address is michaelz@gatecom.com From cak Fri Nov 6 07:13:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA05539; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 07:13:31 -0800 From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com Received: by isserv9.idx.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 852566B4.00537FD7 ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:12:02 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IDX1 To: ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <852566B4.00528877.00@isserv9.idx.com> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:11:14 -0500 Subject: Fuel line plating Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline To: ferrari-vintage Hi Guys, Can anyone tell me what 60's vintage fuel lines were plated with. The lines are steel and seem to have a copper coating, however, parts of the line seem to be plated with cad or zinc as well. This silverish coloration is especially evident on the portion of the feed line that is near the engine sump. I started putting the rear suspension back in the GTE last nite and was using a drawing from Len Miller's excellent "GTE Handbook" as a reference (this drawing appears to be the same as that in the 330 2+2 parts book). The drawing shows thrust washers between the springs and the shackles but I know that there were none present when we disassembled the car -- soooo I checked the 330 and it didn't have any either. So much for engineer's drawings. Bob From cak Fri Nov 6 16:49:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA08925; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:49:35 -0800 Received: from blockton ([12.72.23.101]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19981107004900.EKBW13845@blockton>; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 00:49:00 +0000 Message-ID: <364398E7.CDCB1F0C@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 16:48:40 -0800 From: David Booth Reply-To: Boothcrafters@worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert_Weeks@idx.com, Vintage Ferrari List Subject: Re: Fuel line plating X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <852566B4.00528877.00@isserv9.idx.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rob't: You don't say what portion of the fuel line you're talking about, but if you're referring to the steel line that actually distributes fuel flow to the carbs, mine appear to be chrome plated steel, since I could see both the copper strike layer as well as a nice field of rust pits where the original chroming on the cab's pipe was long gone. Quality Plating in San Diego did a phenomenal job bringing it back. Dave Booth Robert_Weeks@idx.com wrote: > To: ferrari-vintage > Hi Guys, > > Can anyone tell me what 60's vintage fuel lines were plated with. The > lines > are steel and seem to have a copper coating, however, > parts of the line seem to be plated with cad or zinc as well. This > silverish coloration is especially evident on the portion of > the feed line that is near the engine sump. > > I started putting the rear suspension back in the GTE last nite and > was > using a drawing from Len Miller's excellent "GTE Handbook" > as a reference (this drawing appears to be the same as that in the 330 > 2+2 > parts book). The drawing shows thrust washers between > the springs and the shackles but I know that there were none present > when > we disassembled the car -- soooo I checked the 330 and > it didn't have any either. So much for engineer's drawings. > > Bob From cak Mon Nov 9 04:00:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id EAA09133; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 04:00:34 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hil-c45-073-vty24.as.wcom.net [199.174.253.24]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA13460; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 03:59:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:58:24 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE0BA5.F63AA360.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion To: "'PaceCars@aol.com'" Cc: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: RE: 330 GT 2+2 #8705 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:56:33 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 7 TEXT Harold: FoD has your car for sale. Did you buy another? Regards, Bryan From cak Mon Nov 23 18:39:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA14018; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:39:33 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hil-c45-040-vty181.as.wcom.net [199.174.220.181]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA29167 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:38:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:35:47 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE1720.DA2E1CC0.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:33:37 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 7 TEXT I've had erratic running from the C4 as the engine gets very warm. I'm wondering if it might be vapor lock caused by the carbs being right on top of the exhaust headers. Does anyone have any odeas how I could test this theory? Maybe keep putting ice on the carbs... 8-) Regards, Bryan From cak Tue Nov 24 06:42:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA16695; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 06:42:22 -0800 From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com Received: by isserv9.idx.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 852566C6.0057B328 ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:41:29 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IDX1 To: ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <852566C6.0050A1ED.00@isserv9.idx.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:41:16 -0500 Subject: Re:Bryan's C4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline To: ferrari-vintage Hi everyone, Happy Thanksgiving. Bryan, Does the C4 have both an electric and a mechanical fuel pump? I used to have problems with the GTE, if I pushed hard going over mountain passes etc., unless I kept the electric pump running. Something I read years ago recommended running the electric pump when doing spirited driving. Also are the exhaust manifold heat shields in place on your car? If they are missing, the carbs and fuel log could get too warm and cause the problem. Another problem that I had was a gas tank vent problem. Somehow the vent got obstructed and if I went for a long, spirited drive the engine would starve for fuel. I determined the cause, quite by accident, when I fueled up and had trouble removing the gas cap -- the negative pressure in the tank was very obvious. Good Luck, Bob Bryan Cashion on 11/23/98 09:33:37 PM To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" cc: (bcc: Robert Weeks/BVT/IDX1) Subject: Body: I've had erratic running from the C4 as the engine gets very warm. I'm wondering if it might be vapor lock caused by the carbs being right on top of the exhaust headers. Does anyone have any odeas how I could test this theory? Maybe keep putting ice on the carbs... 8-) Regards, Bryan From cak Tue Nov 24 18:30:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA20186; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:30:38 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hil-c45-049-vty209.as.wcom.net [199.174.229.209]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA22001; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:29:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:26:59 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE17E8.C9C90AC0.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion To: "'Robert_Weeks@idx.com'" , "ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Subject: RE: Bryan's C4 Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 20:20:09 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 70 TEXT Thanks for comments, Bob. There is only an electric fuel pump, switched by the key, not a separate switch, and it is on all the time...a change from early V12s. One thing I discovered about the C4 is that the Euro version has separate heat shields that sit below each back of Webers. The US version has a heat shroud around the header. This right side shroud may not be in the best shape; hence, a possible factor. Of course, the problem is that to replace it, I have to pull the header! Not an easy task in a C4. I'll take a look at the gas cap. Thanks again! Regards, Bryan -----Original Message----- From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com [SMTP:Robert_Weeks@idx.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 8:41 AM To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Subject: Re:Bryan's C4 To: ferrari-vintage Hi everyone, Happy Thanksgiving. Bryan, Does the C4 have both an electric and a mechanical fuel pump? I used to have problems with the GTE, if I pushed hard going over mountain passes etc., unless I kept the electric pump running. Something I read years ago recommended running the electric pump when doing spirited driving. Also are the exhaust manifold heat shields in place on your car? If they are missing, the carbs and fuel log could get too warm and cause the problem. Another problem that I had was a gas tank vent problem. Somehow the vent got obstructed and if I went for a long, spirited drive the engine would starve for fuel. I determined the cause, quite by accident, when I fueled up and had trouble removing the gas cap -- the negative pressure in the tank was very obvious. Good Luck, Bob Bryan Cashion on 11/23/98 09:33:37 PM To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" cc: (bcc: Robert Weeks/BVT/IDX1) Subject: Body: I've had erratic running from the C4 as the engine gets very warm. I'm wondering if it might be vapor lock caused by the carbs being right on top of the exhaust headers. Does anyone have any odeas how I could test this theory? Maybe keep putting ice on the carbs... 8-) Regards, Bryan From cak Tue Nov 24 18:35:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA20230; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:35:56 -0800 Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:35:56 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199811250235.SAA20230@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: Robert_Weeks@idx.com, cashion@sprynet.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: Bryan's C4 I'm not really familiary with the DCOEs on a C4, but on most DCOEs, you can easily fab up a simple heat shield from sheet aluminum that clamps into place under the carb by two ears that go over the lower manifold mounting studs. It won't be beautiful or original, so don't put a lot of effort into it, but it'll give you some data to work with. From cak Thu Dec 10 12:20:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA13694; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:20:27 -0800 Received: from happi.hut.fi (kpietila@happi.hut.fi [130.233.248.109]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA25776 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:19:27 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by happi.hut.fi (8.8.5/8.6.7) id WAA13101 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:19:18 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199812102019.WAA13101@happi.hut.fi> Subject: Re: Compression ratios To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:19:18 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ages ago - around August Bryan started this thread by asking whether the maximum pressure in a cylinder can actually exceed 14.7psi * Cr, where Cr is compression ratio. The answer was and still is "yes" for the original question as this is the pressure that exists if the air in the cylinder cools down to the starting temperature and the cylinder does not leak a bit. This can be condered as the lower limit and the upper limit is pressure created in sc. adiabatic compression, where it is assumed that none of the heat created during the compression is conducted out of the compressed air. In reality we always find ourselves somewhere between these two extremes (assuming the cylinder does not leak). The equation leads P = 14.7psi*Cr^k Where k is sc. polytropic constant. The maximum value for air is 1.4 and the actual value depends on how fast the process preceeds. Hence for slow, isotermic processes k=1.0 and P = 14.7psi * Cr but for fast, abiabatic processes k=1.4 and P = 14.7psi * Cr^1.4. Some figures for example: If Cr=8, then compression pressure can vary between 117 and 270psi and the maximum peak temperature in the cylinder can reach 750F - in theory. For Cr=10 we get 147-370psi and 865F and for Cr=12 176-477 psi and 965F. True for old Ferrari engines as well, this is a Ferrari related posting list after all... From cak Wed Dec 16 21:12:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA28324; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:12:16 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hil-c45-065-vty129.as.wcom.net [199.174.245.129]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA12182 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:11:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:12:50 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE2949.99C79D60.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: Carbs and Veglia instruments Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:49:19 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A couple questions for your perusal... 1) If the choke cable were to fail on a Weber (for those of us lucky enough to have the wonderful flexibility of a manual choke ), would the lever on the carb fail in the closed choke or open choke position? I can come up with a logical approach for either position. 2) Has anybody found a good source of info and parts for Veglia instruments? Regards, Bryan From cak Wed Dec 16 21:13:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA28336; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:13:05 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hil-c45-065-vty129.as.wcom.net [199.174.245.129]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA12546 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:12:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:13:44 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE2949.BA63B2C0.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:10:33 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit subscribe ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com. Regards, Bryan From cak Wed Dec 16 21:12:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA28334; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:12:58 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com (hil-c45-065-vty129.as.wcom.net [199.174.245.129]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA12454 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:12:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:13:36 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE2949.B5373C40.cashion@sprynet.com> From: Bryan Cashion To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: unsubscribe Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:09:57 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit unsubscribe ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Regards, Bryan From cak Wed Dec 16 22:27:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA28718; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:27:04 -0800 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:27:04 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199812170627.WAA28718@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: chokes Side draft or down draft? DCOEs have a pretty strong spring action to close the idle enrichment device - I run my cars without any choke cable at all and don't have any problems. Downdrafts are more problematic - the spring action isn't very strong, and I like to have the action of the solid cable to help push them shut (in fact, I never use the "choke" because they have a tend to stop seating over time). I'm not sure that the weak spring action here would overcome the friction of the cable in its housing. From cak Thu Dec 17 20:28:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA04406; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:28:54 -0800 Received: from blockton ([12.72.23.119]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with ESMTP id <19981218042815.CYHD11237@blockton>; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:28:15 +0000 Message-ID: <3679D9ED.70591F3A@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:28:29 -0800 From: David Booth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bryan Cashion CC: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Carbs and Veglia instruments X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <01BE2949.99C79D60.cashion@sprynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think Chris's comments are dead on. With the carbs (downdraft type) removed from the car, the choke return spring seems strong enough. "Well, gee, three of those should be sufficient to pull themselves shut (choke open position)," the thought goes. T'ain't so. The friction of the average cable assembly is usually more than enough to keep them wherever the operator leaves the pull-knob. Now if the setscrew on the choke arm that attaches to the cable were to work loose, they'd fail with the chokes open. Dave Booth Vista, Ca. 3-36DCZ restored and on the shelf 3-40DCZ waiting a turn Bryan Cashion wrote: > A couple questions for your perusal... > > 1) If the choke cable were to fail on a Weber (for those of us lucky > enough > to have the wonderful flexibility of a manual choke ), would the > lever > on the carb fail in the closed choke or open choke position? I can > come up > with a logical approach for either position. > > 2) Has anybody found a good source of info and parts for Veglia > instruments? > > Regards, > Bryan From cak Fri Dec 18 19:27:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA10261; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:27:24 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com ([12.73.247.87]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP id <19981219032651.DLZD2495@none.compuserve.com>; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 03:26:51 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 21:27:53 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE2ACD.4591D500.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan Cashion To: "'Chris Kantarjiev'" , "ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Subject: RE: chokes Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:47:44 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The C4 has DCOEs (side draft). Thanks! Regards, Bryan -----Original Message----- From: Chris Kantarjiev [SMTP:cak@dimebank.com] Sent: Thursday, December 17, 1998 12:27 AM To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Subject: chokes Side draft or down draft? DCOEs have a pretty strong spring action to close the idle enrichment device - I run my cars without any choke cable at all and don't have any problems. Downdrafts are more problematic - the spring action isn't very strong, and I like to have the action of the solid cable to help push them shut (in fact, I never use the "choke" because they have a tend to stop seating over time). I'm not sure that the weak spring action here would overcome the friction of the cable in its housing. From cak Fri Dec 18 20:44:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA10647; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:44:33 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: from PaceCars@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 2QSWa11362 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 23:43:56 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <60190b4e.367b2f0c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 23:43:56 EST To: ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Looking for 250 SWB/500TRC Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 A friend of mine who collects vintage racing cars is looking for a 250 SWB or a 500TRC or Mondiale. Other comp. cars considered. He has the money...anyone know of one for sale? Thanks, Harold Pace From cak Sat Dec 19 10:01:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA01113; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 10:01:23 -0800 Received: (from brown@localhost) by landau.phys.washington.edu (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA26110; Sat, 19 Dec 1998 10:00:47 -0800 (PST) From: brown@landau.phys.washington.edu (Lowell Brown) Message-Id: <199812191800.KAA26110@landau.phys.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Looking for 250 SWB/500TRC To: PaceCars@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 10:00:47 -0800 (PST) Cc: ferrari-vintage In-Reply-To: <60190b4e.367b2f0c@aol.com> from "PaceCars@aol.com" at Dec 18, 98 11:43:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text How about rounding up the usual suspects --- looking in the Ferrari Market Letter? Fantasy Junction, 510-653-7555, has a 250 SWB for sale. Lowell Brown > >A friend of mine who collects vintage racing cars is looking for a 250 SWB or >a 500TRC or Mondiale. Other comp. cars considered. He has the money...anyone >know of one for sale? >Thanks, >Harold Pace > From cak Sun Dec 20 12:04:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA06617; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:04:27 -0800 Received: from blue022.introweb.nl ([195.121.20.86]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA5128; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:03:51 +0100 Message-ID: <367D57F3.6EFA@wxs.nl> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:02:59 +0100 From: Bert de Boer Reply-To: fer340am@wxs.nl Organization: World Access X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-WXS-16 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PaceCars@aol.com CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Looking for 250 SWB/500TRC References: <60190b4e.367b2f0c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harold, In Holland is a 500 TR for sale, #0600MDTR. It's the first 500 TR build. The car participated at Le Mans twice, '56 and '57, and also some other events including Sebring '59. In 1957 the car was returned to the factory and rebodied by Scaglietti with pontoon fenders, the first Ferrari who got these. In Germany I know that there are for sale a 250 GT TdF '58, a 500 TRC and another 250 GT TdF. Don't know the serial numbers. Bert de Boer From cak Tue Dec 29 09:12:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA14157; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 09:12:15 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com ([12.73.230.133]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP id <19981229171138.IUJO10108@none.compuserve.com> for ; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:11:38 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:11:29 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE331B.FBB92120.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan Cashion To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: Race photos Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:11:25 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following link has photos from the Challenge / Historic Challenge race at Pikes Peak. Sorry for the delay (the races were in Sep)...poor e-mail response, change in ISP, bad coding...what can I say. Happy New Year to all! http://home.att.net/~bryan.cashion/ppir.htm Regards, Bryan From cak Tue Dec 29 09:34:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA14224; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 09:34:48 -0800 Received: from blue022.introweb.nl ([195.121.20.8]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA5626; Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:34:13 +0100 Message-ID: <36891246.76B2@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:32:54 +0100 From: Bert de Boer Reply-To: fer340am@wxs.nl Organization: World Access X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-WXS-16 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bryan Cashion CC: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Race photos References: <01BE331B.FBB92120.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Great pictures Brian, these events should take place more often. I'm a regular visitor of the Shell Historic Challenge and I enjoy every second of it. For people that haven't visit such event before, you must do it at least once in a lifetime. Bert de Boer From cak Fri Jan 1 09:54:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA02323; Fri, 1 Jan 1999 09:54:35 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: from PaceCars@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id VUSTa07010 for ; Fri, 1 Jan 1999 12:53:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <98b2460b.368d0bac@aol.com> Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 12:53:48 EST To: ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Looking for Mike Dopudja Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Does anyone know how to contact Mike Dopudja in Denver? I understand he is familiar with 4-cylinder Ferrari engines (750 Monza, etc.). Thanks, Harold Pace From cak Sun Jan 3 08:20:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA05805; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 08:20:51 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME (ip13.atlanta15.ga.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.163.13]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA29679; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 08:20:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <368FC2FE.7AB4@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 11:20:30 -0800 From: Gerald Roush Reply-To: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PaceCars@aol.com CC: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Looking for Mike Dopudja References: <98b2460b.368d0bac@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PaceCars@aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone know how to contact Mike Dopudja in Denver? I understand he is > familiar with 4-cylinder Ferrari engines (750 Monza, etc.). > Thanks, > Harold Pace Mike Dopudja Mike's Performance Headquarters Inc 3935 S Kalamath Street Englewood, CO 80110-4417 303-761-9809 From cak Fri Jan 8 12:21:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA02176; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:21:42 -0800 Received: from loop.com (p21.hwts04.loop.net [207.211.61.156]) by ritchie.loop.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA18125 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:09:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36965A79.7E2EA4C2@loop.com> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 11:20:33 -0800 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@loop.com Organization: Fairlight USA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vintage Ferrari Subject: Engine Bay questions. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Hope you are all well. I had the opportunity recently to adjust the valves on the 250. Before it goes back together I was contemplating repainting the covers and I started thinking, hey if you have to do it, why not try to get it right. SO, the car is a 250GTE, series II. Built about mid 62, S/N 3835. Cam Covers: I realize the crackle finish is universal, what about the ferrari logo, I have seen it painted, and, not painted, and, painted red. Carb Linkages: Polished, or plated. How about the supports, polished, painted or anodized. again, I have seen all of the above. Timing chain covers: Silver, smooth black, or crackle black. I like smooth black, but if silver is it, then silver is it. Air Cleaner cover: Smooth flat black, but I have seen chrome. Air Cleaner grill: Silver, black gloss, nickel plated, chrome plated. Again, all four in photo's. Air Cleaner base: Silver, or Smooth flat black. Spark Plug tubes: Crinkle black, smooth flat black, polished. Any picks. Last, what are people's preferences on paints. I like and epoxy satin black that I found at PeP boy's for the smooth black stuff, Dave Booth likes the Harley Davidson engine silver, what do you think. Oh, by the way, I won't hold anyone accountable for their answer's, what have you seen is what I would like to know, or what you think might be correct as there sure is allot of people who tend to do what they like. Thanks in advance. Regards, Andrew. From cak Fri Jan 8 13:39:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA02862; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:39:03 -0800 Received: by dfssl.exchange.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:35:01 -0800 Message-ID: <01D6C7224936D211BA450000F805D538019DFE71@TOTO> From: "Michael Bradley (Exchange)" To: "'abrent@loop.com'" , Vintage Ferrari Subject: RE: Engine Bay questions. Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:34:42 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Partial answer All from memory when I owned 4599 whcih was pretty original Cam Convers - All black crackle Spark Plug Tubes - black crackle Air Cleaner grill - nickel - brushed Air cleaner top and bottom - semigloss black Cam covers - definately not silver - I remember crackle -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Brent [mailto:abrent@loop.com] Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 11:21 To: Vintage Ferrari Subject: Engine Bay questions. Hi, Hope you are all well. I had the opportunity recently to adjust the valves on the 250. Before it goes back together I was contemplating repainting the covers and I started thinking, hey if you have to do it, why not try to get it right. SO, the car is a 250GTE, series II. Built about mid 62, S/N 3835. Cam Covers: I realize the crackle finish is universal, what about the ferrari logo, I have seen it painted, and, not painted, and, painted red. Carb Linkages: Polished, or plated. How about the supports, polished, painted or anodized. again, I have seen all of the above. Timing chain covers: Silver, smooth black, or crackle black. I like smooth black, but if silver is it, then silver is it. Air Cleaner cover: Smooth flat black, but I have seen chrome. Air Cleaner grill: Silver, black gloss, nickel plated, chrome plated. Again, all four in photo's. Air Cleaner base: Silver, or Smooth flat black. Spark Plug tubes: Crinkle black, smooth flat black, polished. Any picks. Last, what are people's preferences on paints. I like and epoxy satin black that I found at PeP boy's for the smooth black stuff, Dave Booth likes the Harley Davidson engine silver, what do you think. Oh, by the way, I won't hold anyone accountable for their answer's, what have you seen is what I would like to know, or what you think might be correct as there sure is allot of people who tend to do what they like. Thanks in advance. Regards, Andrew. From cak Fri Jan 8 16:12:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA00447; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:11:59 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com ([12.73.230.167]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP id <19990109001124.JDNA29628@none.compuserve.com>; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 00:11:24 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:10:29 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE3B32.2C86FC00.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan Cashion To: "'abrent@loop.com'" , Vintage Ferrari Subject: RE: Engine Bay questions. Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:03:15 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Strictly my personal preference. Black crackle for valve covers, timing covers, air filters Silver chromed linkages What do you mean by 'spark plug tubes'...the plastic holder that the = wire plugs into? I have a vendor who will chrome almost anything, including velocity = stacks and carb bodies. That said, I think you should suit your own desires, unless you have = some urge to try and track down the original configuration for YOUR car Regards, Bryan -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Brent [SMTP:abrent@loop.com] Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 1:21 PM To: Vintage Ferrari Subject: Engine Bay questions. Hi, Hope you are all well. I had the opportunity recently to adjust the valves on the 250. Before = it goes back together I was contemplating repainting the covers and I started = thinking, hey if you have to do it, why not try to get it right. SO, the car is a 250GTE, series II. Built about mid 62, S/N 3835. Cam Covers: I realize the crackle finish is universal, what about the ferrari logo, I have seen it painted, and, not painted, and, painted = red. Carb Linkages: Polished, or plated. How about the supports, polished, = painted or anodized. again, I have seen all of the above. Timing chain covers: Silver, smooth black, or crackle black. I like = smooth black, but if silver is it, then silver is it. Air Cleaner cover: Smooth flat black, but I have seen chrome. Air Cleaner grill: Silver, black gloss, nickel plated, chrome plated. = Again, all four in photo's. Air Cleaner base: Silver, or Smooth flat black. Spark Plug tubes: Crinkle black, smooth flat black, polished. Any = picks. Last, what are people's preferences on paints. I like and epoxy satin = black that I found at PeP boy's for the smooth black stuff, Dave Booth likes the Harley = Davidson engine silver, what do you think. Oh, by the way, I won't hold anyone accountable for their answer's, what = have you seen is what I would like to know, or what you think might be correct as = From cak Mon Jan 11 08:22:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA11382; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:22:05 -0800 From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com Received: by isserv9.idx.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 852566F6.0059D96B ; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:21:23 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IDX1 To: ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <852566F6.0059D885.00@isserv9.idx.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:20:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Engine Bay questions. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline To: ferrari-vintage Hi everyone, Happy New Year!! Bob Andrew Brent on 01/08/99 02:20:33 PM Please respond to abrent@loop.com To: Vintage Ferrari cc: (bcc: Robert Weeks/BVT/IDX1) Subject: Engine Bay questions. Body: >Hi, >Hope you are all well. >I had the opportunity recently to adjust the valves on the 250. Before it goes >back together I was contemplating repainting the covers and I started thinking, >hey if you have to do it, why not try to get it right. >SO, the car is a 250GTE, series II. Built about mid 62, S/N 3835. >Cam Covers: I realize the crackle finish is universal, what about the >ferrari logo, I have seen it painted, and, not painted, and, painted red. I think that the logo should be crackle finish but I prefer not painted. >Carb Linkages: Polished, or plated. How about the supports, polished, painted >or anodized. >again, I have seen all of the above. The linkages on my car appear to be "blued". >Timing chain covers: Silver, smooth black, or crackle black. I like smooth >black, but if silver is it, >then silver is it. crackle finish again here >Air Cleaner cover: Smooth flat black, but I have seen chrome. satin black - I like the one distributed by Wurth >Air Cleaner grill: Silver, black gloss, nickel plated, chrome plated. Again, >all four in photo's. silver painted I think but am not sure. >Air Cleaner base: Silver, or Smooth flat black. satin black the same as the cover. >Spark Plug tubes: Crinkle black, smooth flat black, polished. Any picks. Crackle black. >Last, what are people's preferences on paints. I like and epoxy satin black that >I found at >PeP boy's for the smooth black stuff, Dave Booth likes the Harley Davidson >engine silver, >what do you think. >Oh, by the way, I won't hold anyone accountable for their answer's, what have >you seen >is what I would like to know, or what you think might be correct as there sure >is allot >of people who tend to do what they like. >Thanks in advance. >Regards, >Andrew. From cak Tue Jan 12 19:07:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA22387; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:07:06 -0800 Received: from none ([12.73.247.114]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP id <19990113030631.HUPQ16888@none> for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 03:06:31 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:05:17 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE3E6F.41654380.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan Cashion To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: Tool dictionary Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:04:41 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mechanic's Tool Guide =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate expensive parts not far from the object we are trying to hit. MECHANIC'S KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of cardboard cartons delivered to your front door; works particularly well on boxes containing seats and motorcycle jackets. ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning steel Pop rivets in their holes until you die of old age, but it also works great for drilling mounting holes in fenders just above the brake line that goes to the rear wheel. PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads. HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board principle. It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion, and the more you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your future becomes. VISE-GRIPS: Used to round off bolt heads. If nothing else is available, they can also be used to transfer intense welding heat to the palm of your hand. OXYACETELENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting various flammable objects in your garage on fire. Also handy for igniting the grease inside a brake drum you're trying to get the bearing race out of. WHITWORTH SOCKETS: Once used for working on older British cars and motorcycles, they are now used mainly for impersonating that 9/16 or 1/2 socket you've been searching for the last 15 minutes. DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat metal bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and flings your beer across the room, splattering it against that freshly painted part you were drying. WIRE WHEEL: Cleans rust off old bolts and then throws them somewhere under the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprint whorls and hard-earned guitar callouses in about the time it takes you to say, "Ouc...." HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering a motorcycle to the ground after you have installed your new front disk brake setup, trapping the jack handle firmly under the front fender. EIGHT-FOOT LONG DOUGLAS FIR 2X4: Used for levering a motorcycle upward off a hydraulic jack. TWEEZERS: A tool for removing wood splinters. PHONE: Tool for calling your neighbor to see if he has another hydraulic floor jack. SNAP-ON GASKET SCRAPER: Theoretically useful as a sandwich tool for spreading mayonnaise; used mainly for getting dog-doo off your boot. E-Z OUT BOLT AND STUD EXTRACTOR: A tool that snaps off in bolt holes and is ten times harder than any known drill bit. TIMING LIGHT: A stroboscopic instrument for illuminating grease buildup. TWO-TON HYDRAULIC ENGINE HOIST: A handy tool for testing the tensile strength of ground straps and brake lines you may have forgotten to disconnect. CRAFTSMAN 1/2 x 16-INCH SCREWDRIVER: A large motor mount prying tool that inexplicably has an accurately machined screwdriver tip on the end without the handle. BATTERY ELECTROLYTE TESTER: A handy tool for transferring sulfuric acid from a car battery to the inside of your toolbox after determining that your battery is dead as a doornail, just as you thought. AVIATION METAL SNIPS: See hacksaw. TROUBLE LIGHT: The mechanic's own tanning booth. Sometimes called a drop light, it is a good source of vitamin D, "the sunshine vitamin," which is not otherwise found under motorcycles at night. Health benefits aside, its main purpose is to consume 40-watt light bulbs at about the same rate that 105-mm howitzer shells might be used during, say, the first few hours of the Battle of the Bulge. More often dark than light, its name is somewhat misleading. PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the lids of old-style paper-and-tin oil cans and splash oil on your shirt; can also be used, as the name implies, to round off Phillips screw heads. AIR COMPRESSOR: A machine that takes energy produced in a coal-burning power plant 200 miles away and transforms it into compressed air that travels by hose to a Chicago Pneumatic impact wrench that grips rusty bolts last tightened 40 years ago by someone in Sindelfingen, and rounds them off. PRY BAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or bracket you needed to remove in order to replace a 50 cent part. HOSE CUTTER: A tool used to cut hoses 1/2 inch too short. Regards, Bryan From cak Tue Jan 12 19:13:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA22418; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:13:55 -0800 Received: from none ([12.73.247.114]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP id <19990113031321.HYOY16888@none> for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 03:13:21 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:12:08 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE3E70.36713280.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan Cashion To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: Brakes Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:11:16 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Recently, while driving the C4, the brake pedal began to push deeper to the floor and the "Brake Failure" light went on. Brakes till worked but less effectively and with much more foot pressure needed. There is no evidence of leakage anywhere. The brake fluid was pretty dark, so I flushed it out and replaced with fresh Castrol LMA (Ferrari of Houston recommendation), then bled the brakes using a vacuum device that sucks fluid out the bleed screws (one person operation...my first try at this), rather than pushing it in from the reservoir using a pressurized container or the two person foot method. The warning light still comes on. I suspect that I haven't really bled the system completely, but I value your thoughts. Thanks! Regards, Bryan From cak Tue Jan 12 19:48:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA22584; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:48:01 -0800 Received: by krypton.woodside.com.au; id LAA18352; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:43:52 +0800 Received: from unknown(158.89.192.53) by krypton.woodside.com.au via smap (4.1) id xma017965; Wed, 13 Jan 99 11:43:10 +0800 Received: by perm01.woodside.com.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:42:15 +0800 Message-ID: <62D8D33D5366D2118CCA00805F0DD05C367F59@perm03.woodside.com.au> From: "LaVelle, Kelly K." To: "'Bryan Cashion'" , "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Brakes Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:43:59 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Bryan At the risk of being depressing, your brake master cylinder may be the culprit here. Do you have a hard steady pedal under pressure? If not, of course, we all know the BMC will looking at. From memory I think the warning light is triggered by a sender which detects an inequality in circuit pressure. Hang on, I'd better look it up. (Lucky I have a photocopy of the manual here at work) Ah, here it is. The manual for the 365 describes it thus: "In order .... to make the warning light go off, it is necessary: 1) To eliminate the cause which has provokes the lowering of the pressure in the circuit. 2) Loosen the screw of the air outlet on one of the brake calipers of the opposite circuit. 3) Push down slowly the brake pedal until the warning light goes off again. 4) Tighten again the bleeding screw keeping the brake pedal in that position. 5) Check the oil level in the feeding tanks." (As you can tell I've typed this verbatim from the dodgy translation in the manual!) Of course, if your C4 has a very different brake set up to the 365, this may not apply. If you want more info or a fax of the manual, just shout. best of luck!! Kelly 365GT 2+2 s/n 12009 > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Cashion [SMTP:bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 11:11 AM > To: Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail) > Subject: Brakes > > Recently, while driving the C4, the brake pedal began to push deeper to > the > floor and the "Brake Failure" light went on. Brakes till worked but less > effectively and with much more foot pressure needed. There is no evidence > > of leakage anywhere. The brake fluid was pretty dark, so I flushed it out > > and replaced with fresh Castrol LMA (Ferrari of Houston recommendation), > then bled the brakes using a vacuum device that sucks fluid out the bleed > screws (one person operation...my first try at this), rather than pushing > it in from the reservoir using a pressurized container or the two person > foot method. The warning light still comes on. I suspect that I haven't > really bled the system completely, but I value your thoughts. Thanks! > > Regards, > Bryan From cak Tue Jan 12 20:52:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA22822; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:52:50 -0800 Received: from none ([12.73.247.245]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP id <19990113045217.JXJE16888@none> for ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:52:17 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:51:04 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE3E7E.08639D20.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan Cashion To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: More on brakes Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:49:43 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I forgot to mention another symptom. If I sit at a standstill, but with the engine running at idle, the pressure in the system will come back up so that the 'catch point' on the brakes is higher up and more normal. The light only comes on when moving and pressing the brake...I haven't tried revving the engine at standstill and see what happens though. Regards, Bryan From cak Tue Jan 12 20:52:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA22819; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:52:30 -0800 Received: from none ([12.73.247.245]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP id <19990113045157.JXFW16888@none>; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:51:57 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:50:43 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE3E7D.FBE251E0.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan Cashion To: "'LaVelle, Kelly K.'" , "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Brakes Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:43:15 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No, the pressure is steady..it just takes more in terms of force and distance depressed to get braking action, i.e. as if I'm getting mechanical braking only without hydraulic assist. The description you wrote is the same as my manual and is the standard two person circuit bleeding approach...one person pushing the pedal, the other opens and closes the bleed screw and keeps the reservoir topped up. P.S. "at the risk of being depressing" I assume was 'no pun intended', Kelly 8-) Regards, Bryan -----Original Message----- From: LaVelle, Kelly K. [SMTP:Kelly.LaVelle@woodside.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 9:44 PM To: 'Bryan Cashion'; Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail) Subject: RE: Brakes Bryan At the risk of being depressing, your brake master cylinder may be the culprit here. Do you have a hard steady pedal under pressure? If not, of course, we all know the BMC will looking at. From memory I think the warning light is triggered by a sender which detects an inequality in circuit pressure. Hang on, I'd better look it up. (Lucky I have a photocopy of the manual here at work) Ah, here it is. The manual for the 365 describes it thus: "In order .... to make the warning light go off, it is necessary: 1) To eliminate the cause which has provokes the lowering of the pressure in the circuit. 2) Loosen the screw of the air outlet on one of the brake calipers of the opposite circuit. 3) Push down slowly the brake pedal until the warning light goes off again. 4) Tighten again the bleeding screw keeping the brake pedal in that position. 5) Check the oil level in the feeding tanks." (As you can tell I've typed this verbatim from the dodgy translation in the manual!) Of course, if your C4 has a very different brake set up to the 365, this may not apply. If you want more info or a fax of the manual, just shout. best of luck!! Kelly 365GT 2+2 s/n 12009 > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Cashion [SMTP:bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 11:11 AM > To: Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail) > Subject: Brakes > > Recently, while driving the C4, the brake pedal began to push deeper to > the > floor and the "Brake Failure" light went on. Brakes till worked but less > effectively and with much more foot pressure needed. There is no evidence > > of leakage anywhere. The brake fluid was pretty dark, so I flushed it out > > and replaced with fresh Castrol LMA (Ferrari of Houston recommendation), > then bled the brakes using a vacuum device that sucks fluid out the bleed > screws (one person operation...my first try at this), rather than pushing > it in from the reservoir using a pressurized container or the two person > foot method. The warning light still comes on. I suspect that I haven't > really bled the system completely, but I value your thoughts. Thanks! > > Regards, > Bryan From cak Tue Jan 12 21:10:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA22890; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:09:44 -0800 Received: by krypton.woodside.com.au; id NAA02269; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:09:02 +0800 Received: from unknown(158.89.192.53) by krypton.woodside.com.au via smap (4.1) id xma001844; Wed, 13 Jan 99 13:05:02 +0800 Received: by perm01.woodside.com.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:05:02 +0800 Message-ID: <62D8D33D5366D2118CCA00805F0DD05C367F5C@perm03.woodside.com.au> From: "LaVelle, Kelly K." To: "'Bryan Cashion'" , "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: RE: More on brakes Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:06:46 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Arrrgh! Sounds like Mr. Brake Booster is at fault here. Normally these can be rebuilt, maybe its' just a dogdy diaphragm in the booster? (All the mechanically 'ept' people seem to be silent today ... Chris is probably full bottle on this?) Kelly PS: Actually the "depressing" thing was subliminal ... our Alfa's brake system has recently become possessed by the devil, so I'm more current on brake dramas than anything at the moment ... > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Cashion [SMTP:bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 12:50 PM > To: Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail) > Subject: More on brakes > > I forgot to mention another symptom. If I sit at a standstill, but with > the engine running at idle, the pressure in the system will come back up > so > that the 'catch point' on the brakes is higher up and more normal. The > light only comes on when moving and pressing the brake...I haven't tried > revving the engine at standstill and see what happens though. > > Regards, > Bryan From cak Tue Jan 12 22:05:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA23119; Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:05:04 -0800 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:05:04 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199901130605.WAA23119@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: More on brakes That sounds a lot like some soft of vacuum problem... though I can't imagine why it would set off the warning light. From cak Sat Jan 16 07:44:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA00711; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 07:44:26 -0800 Received: from localhost by verdi.engr.utk.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA09504 for ; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:43:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 10:43:48 -0500 (EST) From: Erik Nielsen To: vintage ferrari Subject: 365 gt4 2+2 for sale Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII due to reasons that will become public after the national meet, i really want to sell the 365 gt4 2+2. 1st $23k takes her home. looking for a lamborgini carbed countach now. erik From cak Sun Feb 7 03:28:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id DAA04905; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 03:28:10 -0800 Received: from none ([12.73.247.63]) by mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990207112737.DIWZ1567@none> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:27:37 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 05:24:19 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE525A.1CCBB8C0.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan Cashion To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 05:23:32 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was wondering if any of you have any thoughts about on-going practices that might reduce or eliminate the need for a major service on a time basis. For example, if all the fluids were replaced every 12 months, a fairly easy task; would this help extend the life of the overall engine without a service? I would not expect this to be the only practice necessary, but was wondering if there is a short list that is reasonable to execute that might make it possible to avoid a major service until the actual miles had been ticked over. Let's assume that the car is brought up to full operating temperature on all parts and fluids at least monthly. Comments on this frequency? Too short...too long? Regards, Bryan From cak Sun Feb 7 03:27:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id DAA04903; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 03:27:55 -0800 Received: from none ([12.73.247.63]) by mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990207112718.DIWP1567@none> for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:27:18 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 05:24:00 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE525A.1133E320.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan Cashion To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 05:12:53 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought the following saga might be of interest to those of you who have fought the battle of finding parts for older Ferraris. Some background first. The 365 GTC/4 has 6 Weber DCOE carbs (2 barrel side draft bodies). The configuration is 3 carbs per bank, one barrel per cylinder. Each carb has a choke lever that is actuated by a single cable. The choke cable is at least 10 feet long, as it runs from the center console, through the firewall, down the left bank, makes a loop across the front of the engine and back down the right bank to its termination. I've been looking for a choke cable for mine for a few months, as it hasn't worked since I bought it. Luckily, I don't need it to start the car in "balmy" Houston; I'm just trying to make the car complete. Haven't had any luck going through the typical sources. In Houston, we have a local business called Pick A Part. It's essentially an auto junk yard where you go trooping through acres of vehicles, most of them trashed and already 75% dismantled. If you find the part you want, then you take it off the car yourself and pay at the exit. Now I did not expect to find a junker 365 GTC/4 at Pick A Part, but I thought I might find an old Fiat or Alfa with a cable that would suffice. There was not a single Italian car of any sort at Pick A Part; however, although they did have a few BMWs, Volvos, Saabs, and one lone Peugeot! Primarily Japanese cars in the foreign section. No comment. Here's where it gets interesting. At the back of the lot, I find a 1973 VW bus. Now I figure that with the engine in the back and the controls in the very front, there might be some long cables in the bus. I pulled out one of the heater cables, paid $4.89 (including environmental fee) and took it home. Believe it or not, it's now installed. The only thing I had to do was strip the plastic coating on the cable so that the cable will slide through the fittings on the choke levers. The bare metal VW cable is exactly the same diameter as the OEM Ferrari cable. Regards, Bryan From cak Sun Feb 7 08:51:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA05960; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 08:51:25 -0800 From: PaceCars@aol.com Received: from PaceCars@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DHMMa27801; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:50:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9ca9f157.36bdc458@aol.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 11:50:32 EST To: bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net, ferrari-vintage Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 82 Brian, I have found our local Pick-U-Part (they all sound alike) to be a great source of parts. I bought a period Becker Europa AM/FM for my 330 2+2 out of a wrecked Mercedes sedan for $10, and it worked fine. Complete with chrome bezel, etc. At Pick-U-Part, any part costs the same no matter what it came off of. Any AM/FM radio is $10. Heck of a deal! Although it usually has the same mix as the yard you described, the local lot has had a Lancia sedan and several MGBs (now gone - they don't stay long). You never know. Also, old Mercedes can be a good source for period non-retracting seat belts. I found a set for my 330 in a wrecked Citroen SM at a specialty Fiat lot, and had them re-webbed. By the way, if you need Fiat/Alfa/Lancia parts, contact Shade Tree Enginetrics in Nevada, Texas at 972-771-0804. Robert and Cindy Rogers own it and they are great folks and run serious vintage racers. They also do Ferrari work. In back of their shop they have a giant lot full of nothing but Italian stuff. Harold Pace In a message dated 2/7/99 11:43:24 AM, bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net wrote: >I thought the following saga might be of interest to those of you who have >fought the battle of finding parts for older Ferraris. > >Some background first. The 365 GTC/4 has 6 Weber DCOE carbs (2 barrel side >draft bodies). The configuration is 3 carbs per bank, one barrel per >cylinder. Each carb has a choke lever that is actuated by a single cable. > The choke cable is at least 10 feet long, as it runs from the center >console, through the firewall, down the left bank, makes a loop across the >front of the engine and back down the right bank to its termination. > >I've been looking for a choke cable for mine for a few months, as it hasn't >worked since I bought it. Luckily, I don't need it to start the car in >"balmy" Houston; I'm just trying to make the car complete. Haven't had any >luck going through the typical sources. > >In Houston, we have a local business called Pick A Part. It's essentially >an auto junk yard where you go trooping through acres of vehicles, most of >them trashed and already 75% dismantled. If you find the part you want, >then you take it off the car yourself and pay at the exit. > >Now I did not expect to find a junker 365 GTC/4 at Pick A Part, but I >thought I might find an old Fiat or Alfa with a cable that would suffice. > There was not a single Italian car of any sort at Pick A Part; however, >although they did have a few BMWs, Volvos, Saabs, and one lone Peugeot! > Primarily Japanese cars in the foreign section. No comment. > >Here's where it gets interesting. At the back of the lot, I find a 1973 VW >bus. Now I figure that with the engine in the back and the controls in the >very front, there might be some long cables in the bus. I pulled out one >of the heater cables, paid $4.89 (including environmental fee) and took it >home. Believe it or not, it's now installed. The only thing I had to do >was strip the plastic coating on the cable so that the cable will slide >through the fittings on the choke levers. The bare metal VW cable is >exactly the same diameter as the OEM Ferrari cable. > >Regards, >Bryan From cak Sun Feb 7 13:45:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA07170; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:45:41 -0800 Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:45:41 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199902072145.NAA07170@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net, ferrari-vintage Subject: cables Bryan, I had no idea you were looking for such a thing, or I would have directed you to your local West Marine (or other marine supply), who have this stuff in many sizes, in stainless, in bulk... From cak Sun Feb 7 16:32:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA07886; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 16:32:08 -0800 Received: from loop.com (p12.hwts16.loop.net [207.211.63.27]) by ritchie.loop.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA22612; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 16:18:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36BE333C.B55E538D@loop.com> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 16:43:46 -0800 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@loop.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Kantarjiev CC: bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: cables References: <199902072145.NAA07170@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, We talked some time ago about producing a master list of tips and sources. Chris, any chance you might have the time now to make it part of the dimebank website, or does anybody else have an opinion or is able to help. Regards, Andrew. Chris Kantarjiev wrote: > > Bryan, > > I had no idea you were looking for such a thing, or I would have > directed you to your local West Marine (or other marine supply), > who have this stuff in many sizes, in stainless, in bulk... From cak Sun Feb 7 17:43:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA08267; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:43:36 -0800 Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:43:36 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199902080143.RAA08267@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: cables h I don't have a lot of time, but I'd be happy to collect vendor information for Ferraris as I've done for British cars (take a look at www.dimebank.com/monster). In fact, I have a framework for this already; see if www.dimebank.com/monster/Ferrari-vendors.html floats your boat. Not much here about tips, though. I think that sort of a resource is worthwhile (I learned a *lot* from the old Jim Riff book), but I don't know what the right forum and format is. I'm happy to supply disk and access, but I certainly don't have the info. From cak Sun Feb 7 20:18:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA08926; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:18:41 -0800 Received: from loop.com (p18.hwts12.loop.net [207.211.62.153]) by ritchie.loop.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA11171 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 1999 20:05:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36BE6854.194658A6@loop.com> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 20:30:28 -0800 From: Andrew Brent Reply-To: abrent@loop.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vintage Ferrari List Subject: While we are all talking about vendors Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Has anyone delt with giorgio ortelli. You can see thier website at http://www.ottelli.it/index.htm Regards, Andrew. From cak Mon Feb 8 18:05:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA15129; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:05:21 -0800 Received: from none ([12.73.231.31]) by mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990209020446.FUGK24623@none> for ; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 02:04:46 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 20:01:20 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE539D.CBF42AA0.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan Cashion To: "'ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com'" Subject: RE: cables Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 20:00:32 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had asked the list a few weeks ago about assistance on this. However, that was also during a period of time when my e-mail was acting up, so perhaps it never got through. The choke cable is a done deal (how can you argue with $4.89??!!), but I'm still looking for a Veglia clock. Regards, Bryan On Sunday, February 07, 1999 3:46 PM, Chris Kantarjiev [SMTP:cak@dimebank.com] wrote: > Bryan, > > I had no idea you were looking for such a thing, or I would have > directed you to your local West Marine (or other marine supply), > who have this stuff in many sizes, in stainless, in bulk... > > From cak Mon Feb 8 18:47:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA15356; Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:47:03 -0800 Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 18:47:03 -0800 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199902090247.SAA15356@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net, ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: cables I may have missed it - sorry. You certainly got off cheaper than a marine supply would have charged you! Be aware that this sort of cable technology has improved a lot since our cars were built - there are now steel cables with a Teflon coating that *never rust to the sheath*. Also there are sheaths that have Teflon coatings inside. Replacing the sheath is a nuisance in most cases ... but stainless, uncoated cables are almost as good. From cak Tue Feb 9 19:20:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA03350; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:20:26 -0800 Received: from none ([12.73.232.228]) by mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990210031953.IJXZ17979@none>; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:19:53 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:16:22 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE5471.716C1960.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan Cashion To: "'Chris Kantarjiev'" , "ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Subject: RE: cables Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:29:11 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The honeymoon with my VW cable may be ending! What I've found is that when I tighten the choke lever bolts to hold the cable so that it doesn't slip, the cable (probably a softer material than OEM) deforms a bit. This results in a stiff choke/unchoke action, because the cable is no longer linear through all the connections and holes. This may eventually break the cable due to deformation fracture. Not a big deal, as I don't plan on using the choke that much, but I may look around for something with better characteristics. Just thought y'all would like to know. Regards, Bryan On Monday, February 08, 1999 8:47 PM, Chris Kantarjiev [SMTP:cak@dimebank.com] wrote: > I may have missed it - sorry. > > You certainly got off cheaper than a marine supply would have > charged you! > > Be aware that this sort of cable technology has improved a lot since > our cars were built - there are now steel cables with a Teflon coating > that *never rust to the sheath*. Also there are sheaths that have > Teflon coatings inside. Replacing the sheath is a nuisance in > most cases ... but stainless, uncoated cables are almost as good. > > From cak Thu Feb 11 03:00:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id DAA03079; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:00:37 -0800 Received: from koivu.hut.fi (kpietila@koivu.hut.fi [130.233.248.41]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA223168 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:59:57 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by koivu.hut.fi (8.9.1a/8.6.7) id MAA13207 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:59:51 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199902111059.MAA13207@koivu.hut.fi> Subject: distributor cap...? To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:59:49 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have a little project in the basemant that would need an unavailable 12-lead distributor cap... The one on the car is severely cracked but could be used as a model. Does anyone know A) How caps are made? B) Is there a source for such parts? C) Where do such parts usually come from for superrare vehicles where original or near matching parts simply are not available. We may also need the rotor... and no - isnottaferrari. From cak Mon Mar 1 03:12:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id DAA12262; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 03:12:17 -0800 Received: from worldonline.nl (vp213-35.worldonline.nl [195.241.213.35]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04762 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:11:42 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36DA759C.D5DEEE8@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 12:10:20 +0100 From: Edvar van Daalen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ferrari Vintage List Subject: For the serialnumber freaks! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Most of you know that I'm a serialnumber freak and that I'm subscribed to a special magazine called 'Telaio' ('chassis' in Italian). The last few weeks some Telaio-subscribers started to exchange information with each other, and I started to think about a special MAILING LIST. So, I started the "Telaio Mailing List" and I now want to invite people who are interested in serialnumbers to join us. But remember that we will ONLY discuss things related to FERRARI SERIALNUMBERS!! Other topics are NOT welcome to this list!! As the "Telaio Mailing List" is a private list, the list admin (that's me ;-) may decide who may and who might not become a subscriber to the list. Just to make sure that only interested people join us. To SUBSCRIBE: * Mail me at and tell me your NAME, your EMAIL ADDRESS and something about YOUR INTEREST in Ferrari serial numbers. This info is neccesary, as I want to know something about the subscribers. * When you have convinced me that you are interested in Ferrari serialnumbers, I'll send you the FAQ and a special invitation. * Just REPLY to this invitation and you are a new member! Those who have questions about this mailing list, please ask me at: daalen@worldonline.nl Regards, Edvar -- "The best Ferrari of all is the next I build" - Enzo Ferrari -- Edvar van Daalen Den Bramel 20 7608 NA Almelo The Netherlands Tel/Fax : +31 (0)546 860612 Email : daalen@worldonline.nl Homepage : http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/ferrari/60/ http://www.maranello.net From cak Wed Mar 24 11:41:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA17790; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:41:39 -0800 Received: from koivu.hut.fi (kpietila@koivu.hut.fi [130.233.248.41]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA58436 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:41:00 +0200 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by koivu.hut.fi (8.9.1a/8.6.7) id VAA04474 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:41:39 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199903241941.VAA04474@koivu.hut.fi> Subject: Auxiliary light confusion... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:41:36 +0200 (EET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some sources claim non-matching pairs of auxiliary lights to be correct for GTE's (driver side light with textured lense and the other one with a smooth lense with only a nipple in the middle). Is this an American standard/option, correct for US-GTE's, or just another part of American way of life I'm not aware of? Our car like many other cars with European background have matching aux. lights (both with textured lenses) but for example 2801GT (came from US to UK...?) seems to have the "mis-matching" pair described above. What gives? Kare From cak Thu Mar 25 04:53:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id EAA04355; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 04:53:46 -0800 From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com Received: by isserv9.idx.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 8525673F.004AFE79 ; Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:52:12 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IDX1 To: ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <8525673F.0046AF32.00@isserv9.idx.com> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:52:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Auxiliary light confusion... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi Kare, The list is still alive!! -- what a long quiet period. I seem to recall back in the 60's and 70's, that "fog" lights had textured lenses (sometimes yellow) and that "driving" lights were smooth. Fog lights were typically wired so that they were on with both high and low beams, while the brighter, longer ranged driving lights were wired in with the high beams and "dimmed" with them. I'm not sure what is correct fot the GTE. Our car was first sold by Crepaldi in Milan, and, as many of you know , has an odd nose, so the matched pair of textured, nippled Marchal driving lights may or may not be correct. Best Wishes, Bob Kare M A Pietil{ on 03/24/99 02:41:36 PM To: ferrari-vintage cc: (bcc: Robert Weeks/BVT/IDX1) Subject: Auxiliary light confusion... Body: Some sources claim non-matching pairs of auxiliary lights to be correct for GTE's (driver side light with textured lense and the other one with a smooth lense with only a nipple in the middle). Is this an American standard/option, correct for US-GTE's, or just another part of American way of life I'm not aware of? Our car like many other cars with European background have matching aux. lights (both with textured lenses) but for example 2801GT (came from US to UK...?) seems to have the "mis-matching" pair described above. What gives? Kare From cak Wed Apr 21 02:09:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id CAA22107; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:08:51 -0700 Received: from koivu.hut.fi (kpietila@koivu.hut.fi [130.233.248.41]) by vipunen.hut.fi (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA47940 for ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:08:03 +0300 From: Kare M A Pietil{ Received: (kpietila@localhost) by koivu.hut.fi (8.9.1a/8.6.7) id MAA08861 for ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:08:33 +0300 (EET DST) Message-Id: <199904210908.MAA08861@koivu.hut.fi> Subject: Wakey-wakey... To: ferrari-vintage (Ferrari Vintage) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:08:31 +0300 (EET DST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just set up my own Ferrari pages with an overview on Finnish vintage- Ferraris at http://www.hut.fi/~kpietila This is just a start... From cak Fri Apr 23 12:12:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id MAA17408; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:12:08 -0700 From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com Received: by isserv9.idx.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 8525675C.006942C0 ; Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:09:43 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IDX1 To: ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <8525675C.0069411E.00@isserv9.idx.com> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:09:53 -0400 Subject: 250 GTE Series III Headlight Rims Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline To: ferrari-vintage Hi Everyone, It was good to hear from Kare yesterday -- some interesting history on the new web page! I made an interesting discovery yesterday when I received a pair of Series III headlight rims. As some of you may recall I have been looking for these rims for a while and finally found a pair of good used ones. What is interesting is that apparently Ferrari used at least 2 different rims on the series III cars. I have a borrowed rim in my possession that is cast out of "white" metal similar to that used for the rims on the Series I 330 GT 2+2. The rims that I received yesterday are clearly stamped out of sheet metal like the rims on a Lusso. The size and profiles of both the cast and stamped rims are virtually identical so I am certain that they are both GTE rims. Can anyone out there add anything to this? I will chase down the serial numbers of the cars that these rims came from to see if we can determine when the two different materials were used. One thing that comes to mind is that perhaps different material was used for the rims on the 330 America. Of course maybe Ferrari simply changed suppliers -- which we all know was not that uncommon. Spring is here in VT and I have taken the 330 for a couple of drives -- we both smiled a lot!!! Ciao, Bob From cak Sun Apr 25 17:36:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA01282; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:36:54 -0700 Received: from mail1.microsoft.com (INET-IMC-01 [157.54.9.125]) by pss-imc-01.microsoft.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2524.0) id JRGFWMD8; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:36:19 -0700 Received: by INET-IMC-01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2524.0) id ; Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:36:15 -0700 Message-ID: From: Jeff Littrell To: ferrari-vintage Subject: C4 interior parts Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:36:15 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2524.0) Any good ideas for a source for some interior parts I need for my 365 GTC/4? Used would be best since I want the entire trunk/fuel release "box", a seat belt buckle (knowing that there were probably a hundred different kinds), an interior dome light/rocker switch, and a small rectangular grill from the side of the console. Jeff Littrell FCA Southwest Region '72 365 GTC/4 #15505 '98 355 F1 Berlinetta #111245 "You can sleep in your car but you can't drive your house." From cak Wed Apr 28 13:52:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA03400; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:51:54 -0700 Received: by DIGITAL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:53:46 -0700 Message-ID: <73307F5F24B3D211920F0000F87AC2D5010449@DIGITAL> From: Andrew Brent To: Robert_Weeks@idx.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: 250 GTE Series III Headlight Rims Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:53:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi, I just wanted to add my two cent's worth. All the rims I have seen on SIII cars have been the stamped, Lusso, style. This includes two 330 America's I have crawled over. This by no means indicates that the Lusso style is more correct, I just thought you might appreciate which type seems more common based on the cars I have seen. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com [mailto:Robert_Weeks@idx.com] Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 12:10 PM To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Subject: 250 GTE Series III Headlight Rims To: ferrari-vintage Hi Everyone, It was good to hear from Kare yesterday -- some interesting history on the new web page! I made an interesting discovery yesterday when I received a pair of Series III headlight rims. As some of you may recall I have been looking for these rims for a while and finally found a pair of good used ones. What is interesting is that apparently Ferrari used at least 2 different rims on the series III cars. I have a borrowed rim in my possession that is cast out of "white" metal similar to that used for the rims on the Series I 330 GT 2+2. The rims that I received yesterday are clearly stamped out of sheet metal like the rims on a Lusso. The size and profiles of both the cast and stamped rims are virtually identical so I am certain that they are both GTE rims. Can anyone out there add anything to this? I will chase down the serial numbers of the cars that these rims came from to see if we can determine when the two different materials were used. One thing that comes to mind is that perhaps different material was used for the rims on the 330 America. Of course maybe Ferrari simply changed suppliers -- which we all know was not that uncommon. Spring is here in VT and I have taken the 330 for a couple of drives -- we both smiled a lot!!! Ciao, Bob From cak Thu Apr 29 09:54:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA20966; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:54:36 -0700 Received: by DIGITAL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:56:50 -0700 Message-ID: <73307F5F24B3D211920F0000F87AC2D5010466@DIGITAL> From: Andrew Brent To: Jeff Littrell , ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: C4 interior parts Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:56:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Jeff, I don't have a C4, but I have scoured the local guys for GTE bits, so I can suggest some people to call. But, they may not have anything. GT Motors, Gary Theilgas (818) 546 2971 Symbolic parts, Brock Betts, (yep, Chuck's kid) (619) 350-1493 Tom Shaughnessy (Parted out a C4 about 6 months ago, or may know where to get what you want) (714) 366 6211 Dennis McCann (614) 855 1103 GT Car parts, Dave. (602) 780-2200 These guy's are the most likely suspects. Gary had a bunch of reproduction stuff made for the GTE, so he was good for me. Brock usually knows what you want, Tom usually knows where to get it, Dennis usually has it laying around, and Dave is good for new bits but sometimes has some old ones. Regards, Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Littrell [mailto:jefflit@MICROSOFT.com] Sent: Sunday, April 25, 1999 5:36 PM To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Subject: C4 interior parts Any good ideas for a source for some interior parts I need for my 365 GTC/4? Used would be best since I want the entire trunk/fuel release "box", a seat belt buckle (knowing that there were probably a hundred different kinds), an interior dome light/rocker switch, and a small rectangular grill from the side of the console. Jeff Littrell FCA Southwest Region '72 365 GTC/4 #15505 '98 355 F1 Berlinetta #111245 "You can sleep in your car but you can't drive your house." From cak Mon May 10 14:43:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA20218; Mon, 10 May 1999 14:43:20 -0700 Received: from none ([12.73.225.44]) by mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990510214247.BHRF16808@none>; Mon, 10 May 1999 21:42:47 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 10 May 1999 16:38:37 -0500 Message-ID: <01BE9B03.8DA72060.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan Cashion To: "'Jeff Littrell'" , "ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Subject: RE: C4 interior parts Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:37:09 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been offline for a while, so my apologies if this is old stuff. I haven't duplicated any of Andrew's suggestions. Fred Petroske has advertised in FML that he has C4 parts for sale. (315) 649-2861 or petroske@gisco.net On Sunday, April 25, 1999 7:36 PM, Jeff Littrell [SMTP:jefflit@MICROSOFT.com] wrote: > > Any good ideas for a source for some interior parts I need for my 365 > GTC/4? > > Used would be best since I want the entire trunk/fuel release "box", a seat > belt buckle (knowing that there were probably a hundred different kinds), an > interior dome light/rocker switch, and a small rectangular grill from the > side of the console. > > Jeff Littrell > FCA Southwest Region > '72 365 GTC/4 #15505 > '98 355 F1 Berlinetta #111245 > "You can sleep in your car but you can't drive your house." > > > From cak Mon May 24 20:24:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA24931; Mon, 24 May 1999 20:24:13 -0700 Received: from none ([12.73.225.225]) by mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990525032339.FKET1183@none>; Tue, 25 May 1999 03:23:39 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 24 May 1999 22:18:19 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEA633.541110A0.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan Cashion To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Cc: "Tino Mingori (E-mail)" , "Mike Stenstrom (E-mail)" Subject: Days of Ferrari at Spa Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 22:18:04 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been to several Ferrari Chalenge events in the US, including one Historic Challenge. None of these prepared me for the Days of Ferrari at Spa event in early May. The events I've been to in the US have usually drawn a few hundred people, mostly friends of the drivers, teams, dealers, etc. Imagine my shock when we roll into Spa on Saturday morning and there must have been 10,000 people there!! Now there were two local Belgian race events going on as well, but judging by the hats, T-shirts, coats, flags, umbrellas, etc, most people were there for the Ferraris. The weekend consisted of races of both 355 Challenge (30 cars), Shell Historic Challenge (27 cars), and Class B (42 cars). Class B was a real mix of cars. Interesting to see 308 GTBs on the course along with a 333 SP...and this wasn't the white level either! There were also 348ch, 355ch, and F40s in Class B. 355 Challenge was a lot like the US series, i.e. very competitive, lots of advertising on the cars, and great sounds. I spoke to the owner of 275 GTB/6 SN 8259. What a magnificent car. He drove it down from Brussels. It had bug splatter all over the front bumper. He shrugged and said 'Water takes it off'. But the highlight was the Historic Challenge. An incomplete list includes: 3 Maseratis 300S (2 from US) 1 Birdcage Maserati 1 Maserati Bora 4 365 GTB Competizione 1 625 TR 2 500 TRC 1 500 TR 1 275 GTB (US) 6 250 SWB (1 from US) 1 512M 1 330 LMB (out of 4 built) 1 330 GTO (out of 3 built) 3 250 GTO (out of 36 built) (1 from US) I have no S/Ns on the above, however. Although they had a separate tent set up as the garage for the Historic cars and you could look all you want, the drivers and terams were pretty busy to be asking for numbers. They rolled all the cars into a line outside the tent in preparation for the races, so youc ould get good photos (see http:\home.att.net\~pherrari\spa.htm) THEN they started them all!! The pace car for the races was a 360 Modena. I never got any good photos, but even if I did they wouldn't be as good as what you've seen already and they wouldn't do justice to the car anyway. Just as with the 550 Maranello, the 2 dimensions of a picture are substantially less useful as seeing tthe car in person. We also saw a 360 in Waterloo the night before the races...I suspect the same car. After all, how many red 360s can there be in Belgium before production is off and running? Thoughts that struck me: Frontal aspect ratio...wider and lower than a 355 Steeply raked windshield. This makes the 'height' of the windshield seem small. I wonder if it will affect outward views. Watching it on the track, the car seems to do almost everything effortlessly and very smoothly. Coming off the La Source turn (a very tight hairpin) on to the straight, the car seemed to accelerate more and more without ever stopping to shift. The latest F1 gearbox, I expect. I'm looking forward to a ride someday! For reference, here are some track times. Hakkinen - 1998 GP pole 1:49 Schumacher - 98 GP fastest lap 2:04 333SP 2:27 F40LM 2:37 Fastest 355ch 2:38 Fastest 348 2:44 512M 2:45 Slowest 355ch 2:54 330LMB 2:54 Fastest 365 Comp. 2:54 F40 2:56 308 3:00 512TR 3:01 (Ric: maybe these two times help your choice...) Fastest GTO 3:05 All in all, a great day. See the URL for more...let me know if there are any link problems. Edvar: my wife picked up a book at a little store off the Groenplaats in Antwerp. The title is "Gouden Momenten met Ferrari." Written in 1991 by Paul van de Vlasakker, it's a small book (64 pages) with mostly black and white photos, but there are some interesting ones in it. No serial numbers to speak of. From cak Mon May 24 20:31:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA25126; Mon, 24 May 1999 20:31:31 -0700 Received: from none ([12.73.225.225]) by mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990525033059.FNBS1183@none>; Tue, 25 May 1999 03:30:59 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 24 May 1999 22:25:38 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEA634.598BD8C0.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan Cashion To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Cc: "Tino Mingori (E-mail)" , "Mike Stenstrom (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Days of Ferrari at Spa Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 22:25:00 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Correct URL is: http://home.att.net/~pherrari/spa.htm From cak Mon May 24 20:33:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA25134; Mon, 24 May 1999 20:33:37 -0700 Received: from none ([12.73.225.225]) by mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990525033305.FNVY1183@none>; Tue, 25 May 1999 03:33:05 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 24 May 1999 22:27:46 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEA634.A5C342A0.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan Cashion To: "'Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)'" Cc: "'Tino Mingori (E-mail)'" , "'Mike Stenstrom (E-mail)'" Subject: Recall: Days of Ferrari at Spa Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 22:26:38 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bryan Cashion would like to recall the message, "Days of Ferrari at Spa". From cak Mon May 24 20:33:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA25137; Mon, 24 May 1999 20:33:51 -0700 Received: from none ([12.73.225.225]) by mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990525033319.FNYG1183@none>; Tue, 25 May 1999 03:33:19 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 24 May 1999 22:28:00 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEA634.ADFB7280.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan Cashion To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Cc: "Tino Mingori (E-mail)" , "Mike Stenstrom (E-mail)" Subject: Correction Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 22:27:33 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit URL syntax is http://home.att.net/~pherrari/spa.htm From cak Sun Aug 1 16:29:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA29051; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 16:29:55 -0700 Received: from none ([12.73.225.71]) by mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19990801232921.NEGW5731@none> for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 23:29:21 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 18:28:08 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEDC4B.9A90EE80.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: FW: [Ferrari] Pre 70s Ferrari Owners? Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 18:24:13 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From the other list. I don't know this fellow at all. Sounds like he's taken on quite a task, depending upon his expertise. -----Original Message----- From: Tom Yang [SMTP:TYang@compuserve.com] Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 9:13 AM To: Ferrari Subject: [Ferrari] Pre 70s Ferrari Owners? Hello all, I'm new to the list and have been lurking for a few weeks, and was wondering if there are any older (pre 70s) Ferrari owners out there? In about a week, I'll be the new owner of a 330GT America 2+2 that's largely disassembled. I've got a great teacher to show me how to put this car back together, but would love to share experiences of owning some of these older cars. Thanks. Tom --------------------------------------------------- The FerrariList Internet Mailing List Homepage: http://www.FerrariList.com From cak Tue Aug 3 09:31:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA07560; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:31:23 -0700 Received: by DIGITAL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:34:38 -0700 Message-ID: <73307F5F24B3D211920F0000F87AC2D50388D0@DIGITAL> From: Andrew Brent To: Bryan , "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: RE: [Ferrari] Pre 70s Ferrari Owners? Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 09:34:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi, I think this car was on the East Coast, body off, body complete and painted. Rest of car in strewn around shop. I think it was 30K. I'll email him, I hope he hasn't bitten off more than he can Chew. Later. -----Original Message----- From: Bryan [mailto:bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 4:24 PM To: Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail) Subject: FW: [Ferrari] Pre 70s Ferrari Owners? >From the other list. I don't know this fellow at all. Sounds like he's taken on quite a task, depending upon his expertise. -----Original Message----- From: Tom Yang [SMTP:TYang@compuserve.com] Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 9:13 AM To: Ferrari Subject: [Ferrari] Pre 70s Ferrari Owners? Hello all, I'm new to the list and have been lurking for a few weeks, and was wondering if there are any older (pre 70s) Ferrari owners out there? In about a week, I'll be the new owner of a 330GT America 2+2 that's largely disassembled. I've got a great teacher to show me how to put this car back together, but would love to share experiences of owning some of these older cars. Thanks. Tom --------------------------------------------------- The FerrariList Internet Mailing List Homepage: http://www.FerrariList.com From cak Thu Aug 5 20:36:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA02336; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:36:18 -0700 Received: from none ([12.73.224.251]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19990806033543.KFGP12664@none> for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 03:35:43 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 22:34:13 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEDF92.A48EE500.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: FW: [Ferrari] 330 GT 2+2 Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 22:14:52 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BEDF92.A4A74F00" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEDF92.A4A74F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply directly if you can help. -----Original Message----- From: T. Jones [SMTP:jonestsj@netmcr.com] Sent: Monday, August 02, 1999 10:33 PM To: ferrari@softhome.net Subject: [Ferrari] 330 GT 2+2 I'm looking for a source for either an original or reproduction underpan for a 330 GT 2+2. You can reply privately if you like. Thanks T. Jones jonestsj@netmcr.com. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEDF92.A4A74F00 Content-Type: text/html; name="ATT00001.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
  I'm looking for a source for either an original or reproduction underpan for a 330 GT 2+2. You can reply privately if you like.
  Thanks
  T. Jones
 
------ =_NextPart_000_01BEDF92.A4A74F00-- From cak Wed Sep 1 19:18:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA05586; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:18:41 -0700 Received: from none ([12.73.224.204]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19990902021806.GGGI11568@none> for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 02:18:06 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:14:21 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEF4BE.F5706520.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: RE: [Ferrari] Pre 70s Ferrari Owners? Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:13:53 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See following for more on the 330 America restoration. As a totally novice restorer, I'm impressed. http://www.tomyang.com/cars/ferrari.htm On Sunday, August 01, 1999 6:24 PM, Bryan [SMTP:bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net] wrote: > From the other list. I don't know this fellow at all. Sounds like he's taken on quite a task, depending upon his expertise. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Yang [SMTP:TYang@compuserve.com] > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 9:13 AM > To: Ferrari > Subject: [Ferrari] Pre 70s Ferrari Owners? > > Hello all, > > I'm new to the list and have been lurking for a few weeks, and was > wondering if there are any older (pre 70s) Ferrari owners out there? In > about a week, I'll be the new owner of a 330GT America 2+2 that's largely > disassembled. I've got a great teacher to show me how to put this car back > together, but would love to share experiences of owning some of these older > cars. > > Thanks. > > Tom > --------------------------------------------------- > The FerrariList Internet Mailing List > Homepage: http://www.FerrariList.com From cak Mon Sep 6 13:09:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA18027; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:09:32 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com ([12.73.226.172]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19990906200856.EVFI6819@none.compuserve.com> for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:08:56 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:04:47 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEF879.291DC260.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: FW: 330 America restoration Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:59:40 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit None of us know this fellow directly, I guess. What are people's thoughts on inviting him to join our list? He already belongs to the other list...where he won't find much going on re: 330 America. His site is at http:www.tomyang.com/cars/car1.html -----Original Message----- From: Tom Yang [SMTP:TYang@compuserve.com] Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 12:53 AM To: Bryan Subject: 330 America restoration Hi Bryan, I've contacted Len Miller and have joined his GTE Registry. My shop is part of a larger space in which I rent from a friend of mine. The Ferrari is in a work area that I have set up to do the restoration, and is probably the largest work-space I've used to do such a project. My website shows the other cars I own and work on. "www.tomyang.com/cars/car1.html" I started with an '66 Mustang coupe in high school, and did a lot of the restoration as I drove it. I then sold it after I bought a '65 Fastback. The car was pretty complete, so I've only had to do minor repairs. My next purchase was a '66 Alpine that I did the brakes, and some electrical work to get running correctly. It will one day get painted, but other projects took precidence. The Porsche was my last "major" restoration, but I was only involved with the reassembly of the car after the body work had been done. I've repaired and restored many other sub-systems on the 911 from brakes, to exhaust, but the Ferrari is my most involved project. Are you a restorer? Any current projects? Tom <Tom...can offer information on GTEs if that may be of help I have put togeter a Handbook 750 pages of literature collected over 16 years on basically GTEs however much of it is common to 330's send me you mailing address and I will send you an index....Len Miller... Also, the photos on your web site are intriguing. Can you tell me where the shop is and what other cars you are/have restored?>> From cak Tue Sep 7 09:39:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA05780; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 09:39:45 -0700 Received: by DIGITAL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 09:43:21 -0700 Message-ID: <73307F5F24B3D211920F0000F87AC2D5038BB2@DIGITAL> From: Andrew Brent To: Bryan , "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: RE: 330 America restoration Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 09:43:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I'll second. Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Bryan [mailto:bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 1:00 PM To: Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail) Subject: FW: 330 America restoration None of us know this fellow directly, I guess. What are people's thoughts on inviting him to join our list? He already belongs to the other list...where he won't find much going on re: 330 America. His site is at http:www.tomyang.com/cars/car1.html -----Original Message----- From: Tom Yang [SMTP:TYang@compuserve.com] Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 12:53 AM To: Bryan Subject: 330 America restoration Hi Bryan, I've contacted Len Miller and have joined his GTE Registry. My shop is part of a larger space in which I rent from a friend of mine. The Ferrari is in a work area that I have set up to do the restoration, and is probably the largest work-space I've used to do such a project. My website shows the other cars I own and work on. "www.tomyang.com/cars/car1.html" I started with an '66 Mustang coupe in high school, and did a lot of the restoration as I drove it. I then sold it after I bought a '65 Fastback. The car was pretty complete, so I've only had to do minor repairs. My next purchase was a '66 Alpine that I did the brakes, and some electrical work to get running correctly. It will one day get painted, but other projects took precidence. The Porsche was my last "major" restoration, but I was only involved with the reassembly of the car after the body work had been done. I've repaired and restored many other sub-systems on the 911 from brakes, to exhaust, but the Ferrari is my most involved project. Are you a restorer? Any current projects? Tom <Tom...can offer information on GTEs if that may be of help I have put togeter a Handbook 750 pages of literature collected over 16 years on basically GTEs however much of it is common to 330's send me you mailing address and I will send you an index....Len Miller... Also, the photos on your web site are intriguing. Can you tell me where the shop is and what other cars you are/have restored?>> From cak Tue Sep 7 10:32:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA06814; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:32:47 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:32:47 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199909071732.KAA06814@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: a.brent@fairlightusa.com, bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net, ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: 330 America restoration On my list of things to do... From cak Wed Sep 8 21:41:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id VAA09435; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:41:08 -0700 Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA08124; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:18:23 -0700 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.8) id XAA06046 for cak@dimebank.com; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:17:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:17:21 -0400 From: Tom Yang Subject: Welcome Sender: Tom Yang To: Ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <199909082317_MC2-841D-2A0D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Status: RO Hello All, I've just been invited on this list and wanted to say hello, and introduce myself. My Name is Tom Yang, and I recently purchased my first Ferrari. It is a 1963 330GT America, SN #5053. It was purchased largely disassembled by it's previous owner, and I have taken on the task of restoring the car. After trucking the car from VA, I took inventory, and found only a few pieces missing. The main piece being the heater box assembly(anybody have a spare?). I'm restoring the car in CT at a garage space that I rent, and I'm documenting the progress on my website. "www.tomyang.com/cars/ferrari.htm" I am lucky in that I have the help of a Ferrari restorer by the name of Francois Sicard. He has restored many vintage Ferraris, and has a even worked at the Ferrari factory in the sixties! His knowledge is immense, and his tutelage will be invaluable! He recently restored Peter Kalikow's 330 America (Cavalino), and a GTE that I can reference when I run into trouble. I'm very excited about owning my first Ferrari, especially because it's a V-12. After driving my boss' Lusso, I was obsessed with owning my own V-12, and I can't think of a better way of immersing myself in Ferrari ownership! Tom From cak Thu Sep 9 02:53:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id CAA13773; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 02:53:25 -0700 Received: from cc.hut.fi (cc-dialin3-55.hut.fi [130.233.251.183]) by smtp.hut.fi (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16188 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:19:26 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <37D77AEB.5CF74F68@cc.hut.fi> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 12:16:27 +0300 From: Kare =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pietil=E4?= Organization: =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=F6le?= IF X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ferrari-vintage Subject: New members...(re: Welcome) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If this hibernating posting list is giving signs of waking up I suggest (for the 2nd time) that we invite Michael Zakarian. He owns 250GTE/3177 and in my opinion could be a valuable addition to us. Seems a nice chap and very affected to his well preserved car... Kare -- Ferrari in Scandinavia at: http://www.hut.fi/~kpietila/index.html From cak Thu Sep 9 07:06:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA17600; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:06:50 -0700 Received: by dfssl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:05:50 -0700 Message-ID: <01D6C7224936D211BA450000F805D5380775BBF1@TOTO> From: "Michael Bradley (Exchange)" To: "'Tom Yang'" , Ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: Welcome Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:05:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yes welcome. Ive enjoyed following your exploits. I noticed that you decided not to remove the rear suspension. When I redid my GTE I removed the rear suspension for cleaning, rejuvenation and replacement of the control arm bushings (which I would suspect will need replacing if its not been done). It took not special tools and is really the only way to both make it presentable and insure that nothing is amiss such as a broken spring leaf. -----Original Message----- From: Tom Yang [mailto:TYang@compuserve.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 8:17 PM To: Ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Subject: Welcome Hello All, I've just been invited on this list and wanted to say hello, and introduce myself. My Name is Tom Yang, and I recently purchased my first Ferrari. It is a 1963 330GT America, SN #5053. It was purchased largely disassembled by it's previous owner, and I have taken on the task of restoring the car. After trucking the car from VA, I took inventory, and found only a few pieces missing. The main piece being the heater box assembly(anybody have a spare?). I'm restoring the car in CT at a garage space that I rent, and I'm documenting the progress on my website. "www.tomyang.com/cars/ferrari.htm" I am lucky in that I have the help of a Ferrari restorer by the name of Francois Sicard. He has restored many vintage Ferraris, and has a even worked at the Ferrari factory in the sixties! His knowledge is immense, and his tutelage will be invaluable! He recently restored Peter Kalikow's 330 America (Cavalino), and a GTE that I can reference when I run into trouble. I'm very excited about owning my first Ferrari, especially because it's a V-12. After driving my boss' Lusso, I was obsessed with owning my own V-12, and I can't think of a better way of immersing myself in Ferrari ownership! Tom From cak Thu Sep 9 16:53:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA27664; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:53:24 -0700 Received: from lheureux-nt (lheureux-nt.jpl.nasa.gov [137.78.165.219]) by eis-msg-014.jpl.nasa.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA24272 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:52:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990909162745.00b1b7e0@mail1.jpl.nasa.gov> X-Sender: jelliott@mail1.jpl.nasa.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 16:51:40 -0700 To: ferrari-vintage From: "John O. Elliott" Subject: Bendix Brake Booster Colors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List: Since the list is so active of late I'd like to put in a question. I've sprung a slight leak on one of the two Bendix brake boosters on my Series I 330 GT 2+2. This will necessitate removing the boosters and probably having at least one of them rebuilt. Since I am going to this trouble and expense I would like to make sure that the newly repaired boosters are the correct color and have the correct markings when they go back into the car. Can anyone tell me what color these boosters originally were? At the moment they are gloss black (except where the brake fluid has eaten the paint), but looking at pictures of similar-era cars it appears to me that these early-sixties Bendix boosters were originally silver, and some pictures seem to show a red and white (?) sticker of some kind on top of them. So a second question would be, if indeed there was originally a sticker on the boosters, what was it and is there any present source for a reproduction? Thanks in advance and welcome new member Tony! Ciao, John Elliott From cak Thu Sep 9 17:09:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA27857; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:09:17 -0700 Received: by DIGITAL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:12:55 -0700 Message-ID: <73307F5F24B3D211920F0000F87AC2D5038C1C@DIGITAL> From: Andrew Brent To: "John O. Elliott" , ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: Bendix Brake Booster Colors Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:12:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Parker Hall has the stickers. (kilimanjaro designs (sp?)) I think the 250 series were CAD plated, or silver. Mine is black at the moment also. I think the 330 was the same, but then again I think they had two series of the brake boosters in the 330's, one like yours, and a single booster like the 250's. SO, don't take my word for it, particularly on your car. Regards, Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: John O. Elliott [mailto:jelliott@jpl.nasa.gov] Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 4:52 PM To: ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Subject: Bendix Brake Booster Colors List: Since the list is so active of late I'd like to put in a question. I've sprung a slight leak on one of the two Bendix brake boosters on my Series I 330 GT 2+2. This will necessitate removing the boosters and probably having at least one of them rebuilt. Since I am going to this trouble and expense I would like to make sure that the newly repaired boosters are the correct color and have the correct markings when they go back into the car. Can anyone tell me what color these boosters originally were? At the moment they are gloss black (except where the brake fluid has eaten the paint), but looking at pictures of similar-era cars it appears to me that these early-sixties Bendix boosters were originally silver, and some pictures seem to show a red and white (?) sticker of some kind on top of them. So a second question would be, if indeed there was originally a sticker on the boosters, what was it and is there any present source for a reproduction? Thanks in advance and welcome new member Tony! Ciao, John Elliott From cak Thu Sep 9 19:39:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA00323; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:39:12 -0700 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.5) id WAA05678 for Ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:38:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:37:19 -0400 From: Tom Yang Subject: Re: Welcome Sender: Tom Yang To: "(unknown)" Message-ID: <199909092237_MC2-844F-E495@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Michael Bradley wrote: Yes welcome. Ive enjoyed following your exploits. I noticed that you decided not to remove the rear suspension. When I redid my GTE I removed the rear suspension for cleaning, rejuvenation and replacement of the control arm bushings (which I would suspect will need replacing if its = not been done). It took not special tools and is really the only way to both make it presentable and insure that nothing is amiss such as a broken spring leaf. Hello Michael, We've decided to keep the rear end in place for a few reasons. First, the= car only has 47,000 miles on the odometer. Second, many of the rubber bushings seem solid, and third, Once having loosened up all the surroundi= ng pieces, it won't be too difficult remove the rear end if problems arise. Yes, it's a calculated risk, but you should see the list of things I HAVE= to rebuild before the car is road worthy! I guess time will tell whether you get to say "I told You so!" Tom = From cak Fri Sep 10 08:59:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA12171; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:59:46 -0700 From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com Received: by isserv9.idx.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 852567E8.00574E17 ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:53:36 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IDX1 To: ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <852567E8.005746C2.00@isserv9.idx.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:54:24 -0400 Subject: New members...(re: Welcome) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline To: ferrari-vintage I second Kare's nomination of Michael Zakarian. Bob If this hibernating posting list is giving signs of waking up I suggest (for the 2nd time) that we invite Michael Zakarian. He owns 250GTE/3177 and in my opinion could be a valuable addition to us. Seems a nice chap and very affected to his well preserved car... Kare -- Ferrari in Scandinavia at: http://www.hut.fi/~kpietila/index.html From cak Fri Sep 10 09:06:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA12250; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:06:21 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:06:21 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199909101606.JAA12250@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: Robert_Weeks@idx.com, ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: New members...(re: Welcome) If someone sends me Zakarian's email address, I'll send an invitation... From cak Fri Sep 10 09:41:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA12836; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:41:11 -0700 Received: from lheureux-nt (lheureux-nt.jpl.nasa.gov [137.78.165.219]) by eis-msg-014.jpl.nasa.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA17770 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990910093239.00ae7400@mail1.jpl.nasa.gov> X-Sender: jelliott@mail1.jpl.nasa.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:39:28 -0700 To: ferrari-vintage From: "John O. Elliott" Subject: Oops! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Driving home last night I realized that I screwed up in my email of yesterday in welcoming new member Tom Yang. Sorry Tom, I know your name is not Tony, I guess I need to pay more attention to what I write at the end of the work day. Anyway let's try it again. Welcome new member Tom! Ciao, - John From cak Fri Sep 10 20:53:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA23263; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:53:46 -0700 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.5) id XAA03527 for Ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:53:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:52:45 -0400 From: Tom Yang Subject: Bendix Brake Booster Colors Sender: Tom Yang To: "(unknown)" Message-ID: <199909102352_MC2-8466-95E2@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Hi John, I found out from my resident Ferrari expert today that the Brake boosters= of the 60s vintage should have a "natural" steel finish. As far as the correct sticker, that's another problem. Some had Italian stickers, and some had German stickers? It's all dependent on which booster you have. I= 'm sure Parker Hall of Kilimanjaro Designs knows which ones to sell you. Whe= n I rebuild my booster, I'll make sure the finish is correct, but I may for= go the $20 dollar sticker! :-) Tom <> From cak Sat Sep 11 10:45:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA05329; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:45:39 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com ([12.73.225.130]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19990911174503.ICSU1503@none.compuserve.com>; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:45:03 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:40:30 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEFC52.D4F69440.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan To: "'Tom Yang'" , "Ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Subject: RE: Welcome Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:19:23 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Welcome, Tom! I'm looking forward to your expereinces with the 330 America. By the way, Peter Kalikow's 410 SA (1449 SA) won Most Elegant Ferrari at Pebble Beach. Did Francois do that? On Wednesday, September 08, 1999 10:17 PM, Tom Yang [SMTP:TYang@compuserve.com] wrote: > Hello All, > > I've just been invited on this list and wanted to say hello, and introduce > myself. My Name is Tom Yang, and I recently purchased my first Ferrari. It > is a 1963 330GT America, SN #5053. It was purchased largely disassembled by > it's previous owner, and I have taken on the task of restoring the car. > After trucking the car from VA, I took inventory, and found only a few > pieces missing. The main piece being the heater box assembly(anybody have a > spare?). > > I'm restoring the car in CT at a garage space that I rent, and I'm > documenting the progress on my website. > > "www.tomyang.com/cars/ferrari.htm" > > I am lucky in that I have the help of a Ferrari restorer by the name of > Francois Sicard. He has restored many vintage Ferraris, and has a even > worked at the Ferrari factory in the sixties! His knowledge is immense, and > his tutelage will be invaluable! He recently restored Peter Kalikow's 330 > America (Cavalino), and a GTE that I can reference when I run into trouble. > > I'm very excited about owning my first Ferrari, especially because it's a > V-12. After driving my boss' Lusso, I was obsessed with owning my own V-12, > and I can't think of a better way of immersing myself in Ferrari ownership! > > Tom From cak Sat Sep 11 13:24:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA07743; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:24:08 -0700 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.5) id QAA21447 for Ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:23:18 -0400 From: Tom Yang Subject: re: Welcome Sender: Tom Yang To: "(unknown)" Message-ID: <199909111623_MC2-847D-5FF4@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Bryan, Francois did the majority of the restoration work on Kalikow's 410Superamerica last year, but the final detailing was done by someone else. I just posted another "restoration day to the website last night. "www.tomyang.com/cars/ferrari9.htm" <> From cak Tue Sep 14 20:29:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA17898; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:29:32 -0700 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.6) id XAA11186 for Ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:28:28 -0400 From: Tom Yang Subject: Nardi Wheel restoration Sender: Tom Yang To: "(unknown)" Message-ID: <199909142328_MC2-84E8-1431@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline The following is a conversation I'd like to see if anyone on the list has= any input on! Hi John, When you say "delamination," do you mean the varnish, or the actual wood?= I had some slivers of wood that started to separate from the rest of the wheel, and only got worse when I removed all the varnish. I carefully sanded all the varnish away with 150 grit, and made a diluted mixure of wood glue and water. I then took an X-acto knife and carefully pried the lose wood away (without splintering it) and forced the glue into the crac= k. I used spring clamps (alligator clamps) to press the wood back into place= . When it dries, you can sand the excess glue away with fine sandpaper (320-400). = My wheel is at the 400 grit stage, and is waiting varnish. I bought some = UV protective marine "Spar" varnish, but need to first figure out how to buf= f the %*$# aluminum so it looks right! Tom < Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA29770; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:13:07 -0700 Received: by DIGITAL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:16:52 -0700 Message-ID: <73307F5F24B3D211920F0000F87AC2D5038CC2@DIGITAL> From: Andrew Brent To: Tom Yang Cc: Ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: 330 restoration Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:16:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Yang [mailto:TYang@compuserve.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 8:28 PM > To: Andrew Brent > Subject: RE: 330 restoration > > > Hi Andrew, > > I'm not using anything more abrasive than white rouge on the > front side of > the wheel. I don't want to screw up the engravings! I still > can't seem to > master the buffing! The spiral sewn wheel and tripoli compund > do a good job > at taking the light scratches out, but the second I switch to > the flannel > buff and the white rouge, the aluminum clouds up! What wheel > did you use > when you used the plastic compund? > > Let's continue this conversation on the vintage-ferrari list > so others can > respond as well? > > Tom > > > I did the Nardi wheel about two weeks ago!! I found that the > best result > was > to use the 'plastic' compound for the finish buffing. Careful on the > etching > on the front of the wheel, it will buff out in a second with > that Tripoli > compound. I had to use a drill and smaller buffing 'bobs' > (it's a whole > other vocabulary from live sound - trust me) to get in the > spaces between > the > wood and the edges of the three spokes. > > > Later. > > Andrew.> > Hi Tom, I have posted this response to the list as well. Basically I should say up front that I am no expert. I refinished the steering wheel a few weeks ago, and although I think I will add one more coat of varnish to the outside rim, I think it looks O.K. I have a harbor freight combo grinding wheel and buffing wheel, $89.00 I think, and I bolted that straight to the bench. I won't do that again as sometimes it's hard to get the parts at the right angle. I got the buffing kit from Eastwood, it included the 3/4" arbor 10" wheels, and all the compounds. My wheel was not in that bad a shape to begin with, no splits in the wood anyway, but the varnish had peeled back in a number of places, and if I left it much longer the wood would have been damaged forever. The spokes were oxidized as most aluminum gets when neglected. I first sanded the top half of the rim, the worst spot, and did a test varnish to establish if the shine would be the same with the stuff I bought. I wasn't identical, but close enough. I'll post the brand tomorrow. Then I buffed the back of the wheel with tripoli compound to start and then finished with the white rouge. The finish was a hand buffing with 'mothers' aluminum and mag wheel polish. I think now that that was one of the key points as the buffing wheel seems to only get things so good. In the corners I used a drill buffing 'bob', first one with plastic compound, from Eastwood, and then finishing with the mothers again. I started on the front with the horn button, I used the plastic compound, and I will have to look up the type of buff tonight as when I bought them I labeled them 'plastic', 'tripoli' etc, etc, so I didn't have to think about what compound I used on which buff. The front etching is delicate, so I limited myself to using the plastic compound, I'm sure it took longer, but I was reluctant to use anything else. Finish in the corners was the drill with the 'bobs' again, and final polish was with 'mothers' by hand. I then taped off the spokes at the ends near the wheel, not 'painting' quality masking, just enough to stop the sand paper from scratching the spokes. Sanding was started with 250, finished with 600. Mainly as that is what I had. I found that the plastic band on the front of the wheel looked scratched even with the 600, so I polished that with mothers for the final before varnish. As I used polish on that I needed to make sure it was clean using both paint thinner and Eastwood's "pre-paint" prep, which I think is equivalent to prepsol. I scrubbed it with a toothbrush to get the polish out of any cracks. I applied two coats of 'thinned' out varnish, basically a 30%/70% split of thinner and Varnish. Last coat was full varnish only. I applied the varnish with a small piece of cotton cloth rather than a brush. I cheated a little in that after a 3 day 'curing' I polished the rim with that 'mothers'. It seemed to work. The sanding, buffing etc, etc, took about 4 hours. But, I took about 4 days to do it with the test varnish, and all the coats as I was waiting for it to dry, and that takes 8 hours. I did the last coat when it was remounted in the car as I needed to drive it to work the following day !. Regards, Andrew. From cak Wed Sep 15 18:28:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA07897; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:28:28 -0700 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.6) id VAA14860 for Ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:27:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:27:05 -0400 From: Tom Yang Subject: Re: Nardi Wheel restoration Sender: Tom Yang To: "(unknown)" Message-ID: <199909152127_MC2-850A-FF20@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Hi Andrew, I will try some of your techniques. Maybe the haze that I'm seeing will g= o away after I use some "Mother's" polish. The buffing stand I made is free standing so I nothing will get in the wa= y. I learned that lesson as well! = Tom <> From cak Thu Sep 16 11:41:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA23047; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:41:41 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:41:41 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199909161841.LAA23047@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: Ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: Nardi Wheel restoration Varnish, ugh. I know it's "correct", but it's such an awful finish! We used tung oil on the last Nardi wheel we did (not for a Ferrari); you still get a nice shine, but it's repairable and doesn't crack. I've always polished by hand using Simmichrome. I don't trust myself to use a machine buffer near something that fragile and irreplacable... From cak Thu Sep 16 13:08:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA24722; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:08:43 -0700 From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com Received: by isserv9.idx.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 852567EE.006E1671 ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:02:27 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IDX1 To: ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <852567EE.006E15AE.00@isserv9.idx.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:03:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Nardi Wheel restoration Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline To: ferrari-vintage Chris Wrote: Varnish, ugh. I know it's "correct", but it's such an awful finish! We used tung oil on the last Nardi wheel we did (not for a Ferrari); you still get a nice shine, but it's repairable and doesn't crack. I've always polished by hand using Simmichrome. I don't trust myself to use a machine buffer near something that fragile and irreplacable... _________________ I aggree with chris but have used dilute polyurethane (50% poly/ 50% paint thinner) with good results. After the poly dried I used fine steel wool to get rid of surface flaws, then polished it with Mcquires fine cut cleaner, then waxed it. Until recently, I always used Simmichrome for aluminum, but have recently started using Mothers Mag and Aluminum polish and find that it works just as well. Like Chris, I don't use machine buffers on things like steering wheels. Bob From cak Thu Sep 16 14:01:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA25470; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:01:11 -0700 Received: by DIGITAL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:04:56 -0700 Message-ID: <73307F5F24B3D211920F0000F87AC2D5038D13@DIGITAL> From: Andrew Brent To: ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: Nardi Wheel restoration Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:04:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have read others comments and I tend to agree about the concept of not machine buffing a part such as the steering wheel etchings. Same applies to the ashtrays. But, I have polished a number of 'non critical' bits and pieces with success, the first few times were a little hairy but you can get the hang of it. Don't make a Nardi wheel your first try. As for the Varnish I was using, it's McCloskey's Man O' War Gloss Spar Marine Varnish. Again, not identical, not quite as glossy, but close. The Buff was called a 'loose section buff' with the Plastic compound. Regards, Andrew. From cak Thu Sep 16 18:58:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA00282; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:58:16 -0700 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.6) id VAA27842 for Ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:57:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:57:23 -0400 From: Tom Yang Subject: RE: Nardi Wheel restoration Sender: Tom Yang To: "(unknown)" Message-ID: <199909162157_MC2-8532-A3D5@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline I didn't think tung oil would lay down as thick as the varnish, nor leave= a gloss shine like the original finish. I'm planning on using a "Spar" varnish that's UV protective, and claims it won't yellow. Did the tung oi= l finish just look like stained wood? = <> From cak Thu Sep 16 18:58:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA00283; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:58:16 -0700 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.6) id VAA27836 for Ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:57:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:57:22 -0400 From: Tom Yang Subject: RE: Nardi Wheel restoration Sender: Tom Yang To: "(unknown)" Message-ID: <199909162157_MC2-8532-A3D4@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline I don't plan on touching the etched side of the steering wheel with the buffing wheel, but the back side needed this proceedure because of the oxidation. I tried to get the oxidation off with "Mother's," but it wasn'= t working too well. Tom <> From cak Thu Sep 16 19:02:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA00335; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:02:15 -0700 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:02:15 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199909170202.TAA00335@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: Ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: Nardi Wheel restoration with enough coats, tung oil yields a beautiful glossy finish. We have it on our floors, too! My concern with lacquer is yellowing, but also chipping. It seems to age and flake... From cak Sat Sep 18 22:01:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id WAA14357; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:01:29 -0700 Received: from blockton ([12.72.199.98]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990919050050.VLMO29082@blockton> for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 05:00:50 +0000 Message-ID: <37E46EE8.D9120251@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:04:40 -0700 From: David Booth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vintage Ferrari List Subject: rear suspension work X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List: A somewhat tardy note on the topic of whether or not to fool with the rear suspension during a restoration project. The leaf springs on my cab looked fine on visual inspection, but following the "in for a penny, in for a pound" philosophy that has gotten me neck deep in this thing so far, I went ahead and removed the rear axle (which requires no special tools) and then the springs (which does). There's a drawing for a spring removal tool in Len Miller's GTE handbook which you should have made up if you plan on retaining the use of all your bodily parts after a spring removal job. No foolin' -- those babies will want to come out there at about a thousand miles an hour. Anyhow, once I got the springs out and disassembled, I found three broken leaves on what had looked like a perfectly okay set. And the plastic interleaves are worn through in several places too. FWIW.... Dave From cak Mon Sep 20 08:07:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA13636; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:07:25 -0700 From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com Received: by isserv9.idx.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 852567F2.00527B5F ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:00:55 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IDX1 To: ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <852567F2.0052772A.00@isserv9.idx.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:01:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Rear Suspension Work Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline To: ferrari-vintage I did the rear springs on the GTE and agree with Dave about the need for a spring "tamer". The one in Len's book is probably the best design for vintage Ferraris since it attaches below the spring. I used an ancient rig that had to be used above the spring and all sorts of things got in the way -- the unit was probably meant to be used on the transverse leaf springs of pre-war cars, which frequently are inverted compared to ours. I sand blasted all of the leaves, replaced the plastic interleaves, and made new rubber blocks for the clamps that hold the springs together. Putting the springs l back together was a bit of a challenge but we were able to compress them using C=clamps and U-bolts -- there must be a tool for this as well. After I had everything back together someone suggested that I should have had the springs "re-arched", as it would ensure that they would provide equal rates from side to side etc. Perhaps if you were going to race the car or drive really hard this would be a good idea, but I don't really know. Bob Dave Booth wrote: List: A somewhat tardy note on the topic of whether or not to fool with the rear suspension during a restoration project. The leaf springs on my cab looked fine on visual inspection, but following the "in for a penny, in for a pound" philosophy that has gotten me neck deep in this thing so far, I went ahead and removed the rear axle (which requires no special tools) and then the springs (which does). There's a drawing for a spring removal tool in Len Miller's GTE handbook which you should have made up if you plan on retaining the use of all your bodily parts after a spring removal job. No foolin' -- those babies will want to come out there at about a thousand miles an hour. Anyhow, once I got the springs out and disassembled, I found three broken leaves on what had looked like a perfectly okay set. And the plastic interleaves are worn through in several places too. FWIW.... Dave From cak Mon Sep 20 08:16:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id IAA13754; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:16:43 -0700 From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com Received: by isserv9.idx.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 852567F2.005352D0 ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:10:06 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IDX1 To: ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <852567F2.005351A7.00@isserv9.idx.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:11:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Rear Suspension Work Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline To: ferrari-vintage I did the rear springs on the GTE and agree with Dave about the need for a spring "tamer". The one in Len's book is probably the best design for vintage Ferraris since it attaches below the spring. I used an ancient rig that had to be used above the spring and all sorts of things got in the way -- the unit was probably meant to be used on the transverse leaf springs of pre-war cars, which frequently are inverted compared to ours. I sand blasted all of the leaves, replaced the plastic interleaves, and made new rubber blocks for the clamps that hold the springs together. Putting the springs l back together was a bit of a challenge but we were able to compress them using C=clamps and U-bolts -- there must be a tool for this as well. After I had everything back together someone suggested that I should have had the springs "re-arched", as it would ensure that they would provide equal rates from side to side etc. Perhaps if you were going to race the car or drive really hard this would be a good idea, but I don't really know. Bob Dave Booth wrote: List: A somewhat tardy note on the topic of whether or not to fool with the rear suspension during a restoration project. The leaf springs on my cab looked fine on visual inspection, but following the "in for a penny, in for a pound" philosophy that has gotten me neck deep in this thing so far, I went ahead and removed the rear axle (which requires no special tools) and then the springs (which does). There's a drawing for a spring removal tool in Len Miller's GTE handbook which you should have made up if you plan on retaining the use of all your bodily parts after a spring removal job. No foolin' -- those babies will want to come out there at about a thousand miles an hour. Anyhow, once I got the springs out and disassembled, I found three broken leaves on what had looked like a perfectly okay set. And the plastic interleaves are worn through in several places too. FWIW.... Dave From cak Sat Sep 25 07:42:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA02453; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 07:42:52 -0700 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.6) id KAA13522 for Ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:42:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:42:02 -0400 From: Tom Yang Subject: Brake booster Sender: Tom Yang To: "(unknown)" Message-ID: <199909251042_MC2-8647-E1E7@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Hello All, John Elliott asked about the color of a brake booster, so I was able to take a picture of one from a late 250GTE. It's at: http://www.tomyang.com/cars/brakebstr.htm Tom From cak Mon Sep 27 17:32:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA22710; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:32:04 -0700 Received: from lheureux-nt (lheureux-nt.jpl.nasa.gov [137.78.165.219]) by eis-msg-014.jpl.nasa.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA11949; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:31:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990927172038.00b246e0@mail1.jpl.nasa.gov> X-Sender: jelliott@mail1.jpl.nasa.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:30:16 -0700 To: Tom Yang , "(unknown)" From: "John O. Elliott" Subject: Re: Brake booster In-Reply-To: <199909251042_MC2-8647-E1E7@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks Tom. I've got the boosters in my local booster shop right now having them redone in just the manner illustrated in your photo. The guy at the brake shop was familiar with the correct treatment of hydrovac boosters made under license by Bonaldi, which is what your photo shows and what is usually on the pre- 330 Ferraris. My boosters, however, are slightly puzzling in that they were not made by Bonaldi, but are rather the genuine Bendix deal made in South Bend, Indiana. Now most American-made Hydrovacs for American applications were painted gloss black, as mine were the last time they were rebuilt. So, technically you could say they were the correct color. However, I've opted to have them do the silver cad plating and natural aluminum look that was correct for period Ferraris with Italian-made boosters anyway. I'm even going with the Servofreno stickers as long as I'm at it. I don't guess it'll stop any better for it, but it'll look great trying! Ciao, John At 9/25/1999 07:42 AM, Tom Yang wrote: >Hello All, > >John Elliott asked about the color of a brake booster, so I was able to >take a picture of one from a late 250GTE. It's at: >http://www.tomyang.com/cars/brakebstr.htm > >Tom From cak Fri Oct 1 18:41:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id SAA19567; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:41:47 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com ([12.73.226.107]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19991002014112.GGXE7282@none.compuserve.com> for ; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 01:41:12 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:34:59 -0500 Message-ID: <01BF0C4C.6E492B40.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:34:05 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My car (365 GTC/4) starts up almost immediately when cold, but once it's hot, it's almost impossiblke to start...I've been stranded a couple times. I'm thinking the problem is somewhere around the carbs, i.e. flooded bowls, because of stuck floats. Any other idea on causes or ways to determine the cause? Regards, Bryan From cak Sat Oct 2 13:45:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA07431; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 13:45:36 -0700 Received: from 157.54.9.101 by mail1.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Sat, 02 Oct 1999 13:44:57 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Received: by INET-IMC-01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <412L23K7>; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 13:44:57 -0700 Message-ID: From: Jeff Littrell To: Bryan , "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 13:44:53 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Mine was like that when I first bought it. I'd have to hold the pedal to the floor and crank for a long time, like it was flooded. I wish I could tell you exactly what fixed it but I think it went away after my valve adjustment service prior to the 1994 Monterey meet. Of course, that requires carb removal and resync. And I had the carbs rebuilt at that time. Too many variables to pinpoint the culprit. But the good news, for me at least, is that it has worked great ever since. -----Original Message----- From: Bryan [mailto:bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 6:34 PM To: Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail) Subject: My car (365 GTC/4) starts up almost immediately when cold, but once it's hot, it's almost impossiblke to start...I've been stranded a couple times. I'm thinking the problem is somewhere around the carbs, i.e. flooded bowls, because of stuck floats. Any other idea on causes or ways to determine the cause? Regards, Bryan From cak Sat Oct 2 17:42:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA10621; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 17:41:58 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com ([12.73.225.211]) by mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19991003004118.SQDG11091@none.compuserve.com>; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 00:41:18 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 2 Oct 1999 19:40:42 -0500 Message-ID: <01BF0D0E.032AC0E0.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan To: "'Jeff Littrell'" , "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 19:25:36 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Jeff. I just had the 30K service done, which includes valve adjustment. FoHouston said that the carbs needed adjustment too (and possibly rebuild), but I had to stop the 'bleeding' somewhere! Anyway, your experience and mine points to the carb adjustment as the likely source. On Saturday, October 02, 1999 3:45 PM, Jeff Littrell [SMTP:jefflit@MICROSOFT.com] wrote: > > Mine was like that when I first bought it. I'd have to hold the pedal to > the floor and crank for a long time, like it was flooded. I wish I could (Yup, that's what happens now.) > tell you exactly what fixed it but I think it went away after my valve > adjustment service prior to the 1994 Monterey meet. Of course, that > requires carb removal and resync. And I had the carbs rebuilt at that time. > Too many variables to pinpoint the culprit. But the good news, for me at > least, is that it has worked great ever since. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan [mailto:bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 6:34 PM > To: Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail) > Subject: > > > My car (365 GTC/4) starts up almost immediately when cold, but once it's > hot, it's almost impossiblke to start...I've been stranded a couple times. > I'm thinking the problem is somewhere around the carbs, i.e. flooded > bowls, because of stuck floats. Any other idea on causes or ways to > determine the cause? > > Regards, > Bryan > > From cak Mon Oct 4 10:10:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id KAA14510; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:10:19 -0700 Received: by DIGITAL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <4CZQZ9LB>; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:14:18 -0700 Message-ID: <73307F5F24B3D211920F0000F87AC2D5038FAC@DIGITAL> From: Andrew Brent To: Ferrari-vintage Subject: Oil Pressure. Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:14:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =A0 I am aware that there is a pressure relief valve to limit the top of = the oil pressure range. What controls the bottom end of the range, is it the diameter of the hole at the = inlet of the bypass filter. =A0 I have the 250 motor, but I think the same mechanism is used in all the V12's. =A0 Regards, =A0 Andrew. From cak Mon Oct 4 11:34:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id LAA16150; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:34:35 -0700 Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 11:34:35 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199910041834.LAA16150@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: hot start problems Our 330 has had that problem from time to time - traced back to vapor lock in one of the fuel lines causing the pump valves to stay closed even though the bowls were dry, or something like that... Check for an exhaust leak that may be causing hotter-than-expected underhood temps. From cak Wed Oct 6 17:30:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id RAA06481; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:30:36 -0700 Received: from lheureux-nt (lheureux-nt.jpl.nasa.gov [137.78.165.219]) by eis-msg-014.jpl.nasa.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA22250 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 1999 17:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19991006164451.00b22100@mail1.jpl.nasa.gov> X-Sender: jelliott@mail1.jpl.nasa.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 17:27:54 -0700 To: Ferrari-vintage From: "John O. Elliott" Subject: Brake Boosters and a question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi List: Well, I just wanted to update you all on my boosters for the 330. When last I wrote I had decided to have them taken back to their original cad plated and bare aluminum finish, since they were out of the car anyway. I got them back from the shop yesterday and they look beautiful! The shop had all of the steel parts silver cad plated (that's the vacuum can, the hardware, and in my case this included the cast iron portions of the cylinders), and they stripped and polished the aluminum parts. They look pretty much like new, although the aluminum seems a little bit too shiny, based on photos of other boosters I've seen. However, I'd guess this will oxidize and dull out given some time. I also purchased the "Servofreno" stickers from Parker Hall and they really look great! Now the only thing left to see is if the boosters actually work. I'm getting the car back from my mechanic tomorrow and then I'll see. However, I'm not too worried since this brake shop has done work for me before and they genuinely seem to know their hydrovacs. If anyone is in need of Hydrovac work, I can recommend them. They are: Power Brake Service, Inc. 11944 Baker Place Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670 (562) 907-7712 (800)949-6939 They pretty much specialize in rebuilding all kinds of power brake systems, as well as designing custom systems for race cars, hot rods, etc. An additional good thing about them (I think) is that they do not specialize in Ferraris, and their prices are correspondingly quite reasonable. I may have mentioned before that they are convinced that my boosters are not original to my car since they are genuine Bendix made in South Bend, Indiana, rather than Bendix-licensed made by Bonaldi. I was pretty much ready to believe this, but at my mechanic's shop yesterday he showed me a booster that he had just removed from a '61 PF coupe which, lo and behold, was also made in South Bend. So I wonder now whether it was not uncommon for Ferrari to order up boosters from the US when Bonaldi was running low. Anybody else out there have a US-made Hydrovac? Now on a different topic, I came across an interesting web site yesterday when looking up info on the ubiquitous Dunlop brake calipers that the early disc brake cars (including mine) all seemed to use. Apparently there is a company in England, called "Zeus" that manufactures, among other things, upgraded brake calipers for early Dunlop systems including Jaguars and Ferraris. They use oversized four pot calipers made of something called Spheroidal Graphite. The system looks intriguing, I was wondering if anyone on the list has ever heard of this company or knows anything about their products. Their web site is at: http://www.adnet.co.uk/zeus/bs.htm OK, that's probably enough for one email. Ciao, -John From cak Sun Oct 10 16:07:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id QAA29841; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:06:59 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA05352 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:06:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910102306.SAA05352@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> Received: from bal-md21-16.ix.netcom.com(207.223.125.144) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005205; Sun Oct 10 18:05:18 1999 Subject: Re: Oil Pressure. Date: Sun, 10 Oct 99 19:08:58 -0400 x-sender: brippey@popd.ix.netcom.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Bruce Rippey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Andrew Brent wrote: >I am aware that there is a pressure relief valve to limit the top of the oil >pressure range. What controls >the bottom end of the range, is it the diameter of the hole at the inlet of >the bypass filter. Andrew - The relief valve is needed in a positive-displacement type of hydraulic pump circuit to protect the weakest part of the circuit (the filter), when the lubricated circuit cannot physically accept the fluid being pumped due to, for instance, its higher viscosity at lower temperatures. Once the fluid is at operating temperature, most, if not all, of the fluid at higher engine speeds is passing through the many lubricated bearing surfaces throughout the engine. As the engine speed is reduced, such as at idle, the flow through the pump is reduced correspondingly, and therefore the pressure. The relief valve thus is not needed, and closes. There is no longer excess oil flow available from the pump, and the pressure drops to a minimum which is dictated by the engine speed (pump output) and the physical characteristics of the hydraulic load. Therefore there is no "control," as such, of the bottom end. The bypass filter is in parallel with the relief valve. The filter itself presents a "load" to the pumping circuit, and the pressure drop across the filter changes (increases) as the filter loads up with crud. The relief valve compensates by passing the excess flow which can no longer go through the filter. I'm not so sure after reading this over that I haven't confused you more; I'll be glad to try again if you'd like. -Bruce From cak Tue Oct 12 06:00:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id GAA05100; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 06:00:51 -0700 From: Robert_Weeks@idx.com Received: by isserv9.idx.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 85256808.0053C1D3 ; Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:54:03 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IDX1 To: ferrari-vintage Message-ID: <85256808.0046D87D.00@isserv9.idx.com> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:55:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Oil Pressure. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline To: ferrari-vintage Andrew Brent wrote: >>I am aware that there is a pressure relief valve to limit the top of the oil >>pressure range. What controls >>the bottom end of the range, is it the diameter of the hole at the inlet of >>the bypass filter. Bruce wrote: >Andrew - > >The relief valve is needed in a positive-displacement type of hydraulic >pump circuit to protect the weakest part of the circuit (the filter), >when the lubricated circuit cannot physically accept the fluid being >pumped due to, for instance, its higher viscosity at lower temperatures. >Once the fluid is at operating temperature, most, if not all, of the >fluid at higher engine speeds is passing through the many lubricated >bearing surfaces throughout the engine. As the engine speed is reduced, >such as at idle, the flow through the pump is reduced correspondingly, >and therefore the pressure. The relief valve thus is not needed, and >closes. There is no longer excess oil flow available from the pump, and >the pressure drops to a minimum which is dictated by the engine speed >(pump output) and the physical characteristics of the hydraulic load. >Therefore there is no "control," as such, of the bottom end. > >The bypass filter is in parallel with the relief valve. The filter itself >presents a "load" to the pumping circuit, and the pressure drop across >the filter changes (increases) as the filter loads up with crud. The >relief valve compensates by passing the excess flow which can no longer >go through the filter. > >I'm not so sure after reading this over that I haven't confused you more; >I'll be glad to try again if you'd like. > >-Bruce The other thing that affects pressure is engine wear. As journal clearances get larger, higher oil flow is necessary to maintain a given pressure. During the early stages of wear, maximum pressure changes at speed are not noticible, however, pressures at idle may be slightly lower than when the engine was new. As wear progresses, pressure at idle will get lower and lower, and eventually maximum pressure will begin to drop, especially at operating temperatures where oil viscosity is at its lowest. Bob Weeks From cak Wed Oct 13 02:06:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id CAA23414; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 02:06:24 -0700 Received: from oscar (p05.hwts16.loop.net [207.211.63.20]) by ritchie.loop.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA67700; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 02:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: From: "Andrew Brent" To: "'Bruce Rippey'" , Subject: RE: Oil Pressure. Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:47:54 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01bf1559$cfd86040$0100007f@oscar> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199910102306.SAA05352@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Hi Bruce, Thanks for the response. I am concerned for a number of reasons, the not least of which is ignorance. I felt that the pressure drop at operating temperature was too much at idle, sometimes sitting at what could be 10PSI on the dial. I had Baldwin filters on the car, and was wondering, so I changed them to Fiam's (sp), as that's all I have ever seen on these older cars. I noticed that their was a difference in the diameter of the hole at the inlet of the bypass filter, and started wondering. Long story short, now the pressure sits at around 20-25 at idle, and I feel much better about it. Car seems happier also, but it's probably just me. I drive it pretty much every day from the South bay up to Hollywood now and it seems fine with that. Thanks again. Regards, Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Rippey [mailto:brippey@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Sunday, October 10, 1999 4:09 PM To: Ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Subject: Re: Oil Pressure. Andrew Brent wrote: >I am aware that there is a pressure relief valve to limit the top of the oil >pressure range. What controls >the bottom end of the range, is it the diameter of the hole at the inlet of >the bypass filter. Andrew - The relief valve is needed in a positive-displacement type of hydraulic pump circuit to protect the weakest part of the circuit (the filter), when the lubricated circuit cannot physically accept the fluid being pumped due to, for instance, its higher viscosity at lower temperatures. Once the fluid is at operating temperature, most, if not all, of the fluid at higher engine speeds is passing through the many lubricated bearing surfaces throughout the engine. As the engine speed is reduced, such as at idle, the flow through the pump is reduced correspondingly, and therefore the pressure. The relief valve thus is not needed, and closes. There is no longer excess oil flow available from the pump, and the pressure drops to a minimum which is dictated by the engine speed (pump output) and the physical characteristics of the hydraulic load. Therefore there is no "control," as such, of the bottom end. The bypass filter is in parallel with the relief valve. The filter itself presents a "load" to the pumping circuit, and the pressure drop across the filter changes (increases) as the filter loads up with crud. The relief valve compensates by passing the excess flow which can no longer go through the filter. I'm not so sure after reading this over that I haven't confused you more; I'll be glad to try again if you'd like. -Bruce From cak Wed Oct 13 14:55:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA04935; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:55:05 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA11403 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:54:27 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910132154.QAA11403@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> Received: from bal-md25-32.ix.netcom.com(207.223.114.160) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma011307; Wed Oct 13 16:53:48 1999 Subject: RE: Oil Pressure. Date: Wed, 13 Oct 99 17:57:34 -0400 x-sender: brippey@popd.ix.netcom.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Bruce Rippey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Andrew said: >Thanks for the response. I am concerned for a number of reasons, >the not least of which is ignorance. I felt that the pressure >drop at operating temperature was too much at idle, sometimes >sitting at what could be 10PSI on the dial. I had Baldwin >filters on the car, and was wondering, so I changed them to >Fiam's (sp), as that's all I have ever seen on these older >cars. I noticed that their was a difference in the diameter of >the hole at the inlet of the bypass filter, and started wondering. > >Long story short, now the pressure sits at around 20-25 at >idle, and I feel much better about it. Car seems happier >also, but it's probably just me. I drive it pretty much >every day from the South bay up to Hollywood now and it >seems fine with that. Andrew - A higher idle pressure with a different filter could evoke several conclusions, but I think the most likely reason is that the new (Fram?) has a lower numerical porosity rating, i.e., it picks up smaller dirt particles. What that results in is (1) less flow through the filter and more through the bypass valve (not good from a statistical point of view), but (2) cleaner oil coming out of the filter (good statistically). I believe that the second filter in this case, delivering cleaner oil, would be preferred. If, however, the filter inlet hole diameter is responsible for the higher pressure and the filter rating is the same as the other filter, that simply means that you are getting less flow through the filter, which isn't good. I would not be concerned in general about low pressure at idle (unless it is zero), since the engine bearings are at their minimum stress and wear conditions then. -Bruce From cak Thu Oct 14 07:47:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id HAA20221; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 07:47:24 -0700 Received: from oscar (p25.hwts13.loop.net [207.211.62.190]) by ritchie.loop.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA21158 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 07:45:22 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: From: "Andrew Brent" To: Subject: RE: Oil Pressure. Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 06:15:47 -0700 Message-ID: <000501bf1652$9f3f0520$0100007f@oscar> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199910132154.QAA11403@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> I should mention that the top oil pressure is about 60PSI, which is where I thought the bypass valve kicked in. Surely at idle, with pressure at 20PSI, there is no bypassing of the filters. I mean, at temperature, the only time I am bypassing filters is when I'm playing sterling moss up the La-Cienega curves, surely. Just wondering, did I miss something. Regards, Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Rippey [mailto:brippey@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 2:58 PM To: Ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Subject: RE: Oil Pressure. Andrew said: >Thanks for the response. I am concerned for a number of reasons, >the not least of which is ignorance. I felt that the pressure >drop at operating temperature was too much at idle, sometimes >sitting at what could be 10PSI on the dial. I had Baldwin >filters on the car, and was wondering, so I changed them to >Fiam's (sp), as that's all I have ever seen on these older >cars. I noticed that their was a difference in the diameter of >the hole at the inlet of the bypass filter, and started wondering. > >Long story short, now the pressure sits at around 20-25 at >idle, and I feel much better about it. Car seems happier >also, but it's probably just me. I drive it pretty much >every day from the South bay up to Hollywood now and it >seems fine with that. Andrew - A higher idle pressure with a different filter could evoke several conclusions, but I think the most likely reason is that the new (Fram?) has a lower numerical porosity rating, i.e., it picks up smaller dirt particles. What that results in is (1) less flow through the filter and more through the bypass valve (not good from a statistical point of view), but (2) cleaner oil coming out of the filter (good statistically). I believe that the second filter in this case, delivering cleaner oil, would be preferred. If, however, the filter inlet hole diameter is responsible for the higher pressure and the filter rating is the same as the other filter, that simply means that you are getting less flow through the filter, which isn't good. I would not be concerned in general about low pressure at idle (unless it is zero), since the engine bearings are at their minimum stress and wear conditions then. -Bruce From cak Thu Oct 14 13:34:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA25788; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:34:09 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA26303 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:33:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199910142033.PAA26303@dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com> Received: from bal-md22-59.ix.netcom.com(207.223.126.59) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma026289; Thu Oct 14 15:33:11 1999 Subject: RE: Oil Pressure. Date: Thu, 14 Oct 99 16:37:01 -0400 x-sender: brippey@popd.ix.netcom.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Bruce Rippey To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Andrew - You're right about idle - all of the available flow goes through the filter. As you increase the engine speed (and therefore the pump delivery), the increased flow continues to pass through the filter until the bypass valve's cracking pressure is reached (say, for argument's sake, 50 psi). This pressure value is selected partly to protect the filter element from collapsing. Then the increased pump output is bypassed through the valve (the filter's flow is maxed out) until redline is reached. The max pressure you see at this point is your observed 60 psi. The pump output continues to increase with engine speed, but the additional flow is bypassed around the filter. -Bruce From cak Sun Oct 17 23:13:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id XAA05126; Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:13:02 -0700 Received: from none ([12.72.51.25]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19991018061227.OIFP20426@none> for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 06:12:27 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 01:13:01 -0500 Message-ID: <01BF1905.EC214F00.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan Cashion To: "Ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com" Subject: Interesting new member Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 00:42:03 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those of you who are not on the 'other' Ferrari list, I thought you'd be interested to know that Michael Sheehan has just joined. I don't know him personally, only by reputation, but he could be an invaluable asset to our list. Comments? FYI, his ID is ferraris@pacbell.net From cak Mon Oct 18 09:12:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id JAA14335; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:12:42 -0700 Received: by DIGITAL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <4XBHPKF5>; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:16:50 -0700 Message-ID: <73307F5F24B3D211920F0000F87AC2D5039294@DIGITAL> From: Andrew Brent To: Ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: Interesting new member Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:16:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I also don't know him that well, but have bumped into him at Ferrari events here in the Southland. He has certainly been an active participant in the 'vintage' class from the point of view that he has sold every model at least once, sometimes with the rare cars he has sold the same vehicle many times over. I would second a nomination to ask him to join. Regards, Andrew. > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Cashion [mailto:bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Sunday, October 17, 1999 10:42 PM > To: Ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com > Subject: Interesting new member > > > For those of you who are not on the 'other' Ferrari list, I > thought you'd > be interested to know that Michael Sheehan has just joined. > I don't know > him personally, only by reputation, but he could be an > invaluable asset to > our list. Comments? > > FYI, his ID is > ferraris@pacbell.net > From cak Tue Oct 26 13:25:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id NAA11722; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:25:00 -0700 Received: by DIGITAL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:28:42 -0700 Message-ID: <73307F5F24B3D211920F0000F87AC2D503941D@DIGITAL> From: Andrew Brent To: Ferrari-vintage Subject: New Book. Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:28:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =A0 Has anyone purchased this yet : =A0 Original Ferrari V12=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 By Keith Bluemel. "The = Restorer's Guide to All Models 1965 to 1973."=20 =A0 Does it really pick up from '65, or is there some information = applicable to the 250 series. =A0 Regards, =A0 Andrew. From cak Tue Oct 26 14:00:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA12506; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:00:06 -0700 Received: from lheureux-nt (lheureux-nt.jpl.nasa.gov [137.78.165.219]) by eis-msg-014.jpl.nasa.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA11784 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:59:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19991026135323.00b451f0@mail1.jpl.nasa.gov> X-Sender: jelliott@mail1.jpl.nasa.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:58:08 -0700 To: Ferrari-vintage From: "John O. Elliott" Subject: Re: New Book. In-Reply-To: <73307F5F24B3D211920F0000F87AC2D503941D@DIGITAL> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've ordered it, but have yet to receive it. I found the dates kind of odd too, since as far as I know there was no road model introduced in '65. The 330 GT and the 275 GTB series were both introduced in '64. Needless to say, I ordered it on the hope that he really starts at least with the 330. I'll tell you more when I receive it, if someone hasn't filled you in already by then. - John At 10/26/1999 01:28 PM, Andrew Brent wrote: >Hi, > >Has anyone purchased this yet : > >Original Ferrari V12 By Keith Bluemel. "The Restorer's Guide to All >Models 1965 to 1973." > >Does it really pick up from '65, or is there some information applicable to >the 250 series. > >Regards, > >Andrew. From cak Tue Oct 26 14:01:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA12546; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:01:33 -0700 Received: by dfssl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:00:49 -0700 Message-ID: <01D6C7224936D211BA450000F805D5380775BCA4@TOTO> From: "Michael Bradley (Exchange)" To: "'Andrew Brent'" , Ferrari-vintage Subject: RE: New Book. Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:00:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01BF1FF5.2E115680" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1FF5.2E115680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I got mine from Amazon a few days back. I ordered it in March. It starts with the 330 America if I remember. For the $24.95 its a great book. -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Brent [mailto:a.brent@fairlightusa.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 1:29 PM To: Ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com Subject: New Book. Hi, =A0 Has anyone purchased this yet : =A0 Original Ferrari V12=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 By Keith Bluemel. "The = Restorer's Guide to All Models 1965 to 1973."=20 =A0 Does it really pick up from '65, or is there some information = applicable to the 250 series. =A0 Regards, =A0 Andrew. ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1FF5.2E115680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: New Book.

I got mine from Amazon a few days back.
I ordered it in March.
It starts with the 330 America if I remember.
For the $24.95 its a great book.


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Brent [mailto:a.brent@fairlightusa.com= ]
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 1:29 PM
To: Ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com
Subject: New Book.


Hi,
=A0
Has anyone purchased this yet :
=A0
Original Ferrari V12=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 By = Keith Bluemel. "The Restorer's Guide to All
Models 1965 to 1973."
=A0
Does it really pick up from '65, or is there some = information applicable to
the 250 series.
=A0
Regards,
=A0
Andrew.

------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1FF5.2E115680-- From cak Tue Oct 26 14:44:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA13196; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:44:00 -0700 Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.246.188.136.Atlanta1.Level3.net [209.246.188.136]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21992 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:43:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3816211C.C78A6B58@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:46:04 -0400 From: Gerald Roush X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vintage Ferrari Subject: Re: New Book. References: <4.1.19991026135323.00b451f0@mail1.jpl.nasa.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The 12 chapters in the book are as follows: 500 Superfast 365 California 275 GT Berlinetta 275 GT Spider 330 GT 2+2 330 GTC/S & 365 GTC/S 365 GT 2+2 365 GTB/4 & 365 GTS/4 365 GTC/4 365 GT4 2+2 Close Relatives Competition Derivatives -- Gerald L. Roush Roush Publications Inc. - Ferrari Market Letter P.O. Box 870709 - Stone Mountain, GA 30087 Tel: 770-381-1993 - Fax: 770-381-0518 email: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net - web: www.ferrarimarketletter.com John O. Elliott wrote: > I've ordered it, but have yet to receive it. I found the dates kind of odd > too, since as far as I know there was no road model introduced in '65. The > 330 GT and the 275 GTB series were both introduced in '64. Needless to > say, I ordered it on the hope that he really starts at least with the 330. > I'll tell you more when I receive it, if someone hasn't filled you in > already by then. > > - John > > At 10/26/1999 01:28 PM, Andrew Brent wrote: > >Hi, > > > >Has anyone purchased this yet : > > > >Original Ferrari V12 By Keith Bluemel. "The Restorer's Guide to All > >Models 1965 to 1973." > > > >Does it really pick up from '65, or is there some information applicable to > >the 250 series. > > > >Regards, > > > >Andrew. From cak Tue Oct 26 14:49:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA13279; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:49:45 -0700 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:49:45 -0700 From: cak (Chris Kantarjiev) Message-Id: <199910262149.OAA13279@bosphorus.dimebank.com> To: ferrari-vintage Subject: Re: New Book. So, is it any good? There are many variations of those cars - it's hard to imagine that a $24.95 book can really cover them as well as "restorer's guide" and "original" would imply... From cak Tue Oct 26 14:59:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id OAA13475; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:59:32 -0700 Received: from earthlink.net (dialup-209.246.188.136.Atlanta1.Level3.net [209.246.188.136]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05332 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <381624D9.6F0715DE@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:02:01 -0400 From: Gerald Roush X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vintage Ferrari Subject: Re: New Book. References: <199910262148.OAA13242@bosphorus.dimebank.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, so far I haven't studied it in depth but . . . (A) His original V8 book was certainly worth the money and (B) What the hell else is out there on most of these cars? So its gotta be well worth $35.95 -- Gerald L. Roush Roush Publications Inc. - Ferrari Market Letter P.O. Box 870709 - Stone Mountain, GA 30087 Tel: 770-381-1993 - Fax: 770-381-0518 email: ferrmktltr@earthlink.net - web: www.ferrarimarketletter.com Chris Kantarjiev wrote: > So, is it any good? There are many variations of those cars - it's > hard to imagine that a $24.95 book can really cover them as > well as "restorer's guide" and "original" would imply... From cak Tue Oct 26 20:28:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA18684; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:28:17 -0700 Received: from none.compuserve.com ([12.73.225.112]) by mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19991027032356.OLVV12296@none.compuserve.com> for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 03:23:56 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:21:06 -0500 Message-ID: <01BF2000.653ABBA0.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: Old issues of R&T, etc Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:19:46 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I visited the Towe Auto Museum in Sacramento last week. It's mostly Fords, including an original, unrestored 427 Cobra. However, they have a reasonable selection of car magazine back issues for sale...R&T, C&D, Sports Car Illustrated, Hot Rod. (No Forza...too new) Anyway, I picked up the following issues that pertain to Ferrari. Let me know if something strikes you as interesting. I can summarize the article to the list or privately. 9/58 SCI - Dino 246, Ferrari 4.9 Superfast 9/66 R&T - 815, 275 GTS, 166 S/N 004C (at the time, believed to be the oldest Ferrari in existence) 8/68 R&T - 330 GTS 11/68 R&T - Ferrari: 20 Years - preview of Fitzgerald and Merritt's book 5/69 R&T - 340 Mexico 11/69 R&T - 365 GT 2+2 (the 'Queen Mother' article) 12/69 R&T - 330 GTS Targa - one-off built for Bill Harrah, 312B F1 10/70 R&T - Daytona 9/74 R&T - Daytona Competizione and standard, 340 Mexico, 250 GTO 3/76 R&T - 308 GTB, Daytona station wagon (built by Panther for $50kUS) 2/77 R&T - 308 GTB 7/78 R&T - 308 GTS From cak Mon Nov 1 19:28:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA25230; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 19:28:19 -0800 Received: from none.compuserve.com ([12.73.224.139]) by mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19991102032644.QDJX1553@none.compuserve.com> for ; Tue, 2 Nov 1999 03:26:44 +0000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 21:23:35 -0600 Message-ID: <01BF24AF.5AC50000.bryan.cashion@worldnet.att.net> From: Bryan To: "Vintage Ferrari V-12 (E-mail)" Subject: FW: [Ferrari] WANTED 60's Front engined Ferrari Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 21:21:03 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From the other list. Any help for this fellow? -----Original Message----- From: CWithers@aol.com [SMTP:CWithers@aol.com] Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 4:32 PM To: ferrari@softhome.net Subject: [Ferrari] WANTED 60's Front engined Ferrari Hi Just subscribed from the UK and am looking for a 250/275/330 GT etc., from the 60's for rebuild or restoration. Would accept wreck/ severe damage and will pay all freight. If you hear of anything, please let me know. I think this ferrari e-mail forum is great. Congrats to you all. Regards Chris --------------------------------------------------- The FerrariList Internet Mailing List Homepage: http://www.FerrariList.com From cak Mon Nov 1 19:47:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA25645; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 19:47:50 -0800 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id WAA29395 for Ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 22:47:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 22:45:47 -0500 From: Tom Yang Subject: Interior color combinations Sender: Tom Yang To: "(unknown)" Message-ID: <199911012245_MC2-8B4A-484@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Hello all, I'm in the process of getting my interior restored, ( http://www.tomyang.com/cars/ferrari16.htm ) and am looking for opinions o= n color combinations. Although the original body color was Burgundy, it was= painted Corso Rosso. The interior was light tan seats with light tan carpeting. I'm keeping the bright red body work and tan leather for the seats, but I'm concerned about the light tan carpets. I want to drive the= car as much as I can when I get it back on the road, and am afraid I'll g= et a light colored carpet dirty. How does everybody feel about black carpets= with a tan leather seats and door panels? Will this look O.K.? Tom From cak Mon Nov 1 20:53:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id UAA26826; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 20:53:56 -0800 Received: from 209.69.206.87 (ppp41-t.gatecom.com [209.69.206.87]) by gatecoms.gatecom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA455212; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 23:46:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <381E2996.112C@gatecom.com> Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 00:00:26 +0000 From: michael zakarian X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Yang CC: "(unknown)" Subject: Re: Interior color combinations References: <199911012245_MC2-8B4A-484@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by gatecoms.gatecom.com id XAA455212 Tom, Black carpets would not look to bad, however the dark color will close the interior down somewhat and is a big contrast to the tan. You may want to consider red as an alternative. I just redid my car with red carpets (black seats though) and the interior was transformed. It relects nicely on the door panels and has a deep rich look. Tan would probably be the best choice given your red exterior, take a look at some books, and you=92ll see the red with the tan will work well also. Matt at Re-Originals has the correct Ferrari carpet and rubber matting for the insets if you are looking for a source. He=92s great to deal with also.=20 I was at your web page and saw your progress, looks good. One thing to note, you mentioned that the carpet would be glued down. Actually it is held in place by numerous hidden snaps and some visable silver snaps on some of the vertical pieces, and I believe the binding was actually a hair cell textured vinyl. Good luck! Michael From cak Tue Nov 2 19:21:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: by bosphorus.dimebank.com id TAA17740; Tue, 2 Nov 1999 19:21:09 -0800 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id WAA15503 for Ferrari-vintage@dimebank.com; Tue, 2 Nov 1999 22:20:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 22:18:45 -0500 From: Tom Yang Subject: Re Interior color combinations Sender: Tom Yang To: "(unknown)" Message-ID: <199911022218_MC2-8B7D-D7EA@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Hi Michael, Red carpeting sounds like a good idea, and I may do that instead of the black. I'll try and look for some pictures of that combination. Anybody have a tan interior and red carpets, or have pictures of that combo? Tom <